40 replies to this topic

[Almalik_Abdullah]

I found this topic on dailyf1.com and came accrossed with this topic which I found very interesting and disturbing. Well I will just paste the article and let you decide it for yourselves.



We are talking about past andy esterday at RAI 1 (italian TV) there was a special Michael Schumacher after the usual F1 program, and 3 F1 reporters were talking together about MS and F1 history. They touch a past theme about Senna.

Belli, a reporter that covered F1 since the beginning (now with 72 years), related a very strange situation related with Brazil 94 that was kept in the shadow because the tragic events that occured 15 days later at Imola.

Belli described that after the Brazil GP end, Senna waited for long at circuit and after the general demobilisation of people and journalists he went search MS at his Benetton motor-home and perfectly disturbed in rage and tears shout with him:

"You''ll never win from me more races like that, not in front of my people, are you listening to me?!"

MS was confused and try to smile and obtain explanations but Senna left the place in tears.

The words of Senna became prophetic: MS never more win races from him, because he died the next GP, stated Belli.

Belli still was at the circuit because he was going to travel with Benetton team and he deplored his assistance to such a Senna reaction after so many years of F1. That day, Belli concluded, I understood many dreams were shattered. Senna was entering a rough process of decadence and he wasn't able to adapt the idea.

Other F1 reporter (I didn't understand the name) was categorically: "Senna was beeing destroyed because his worst guesses were becoming real: MS was his decisive menace and he felt the wind wasn't at his personal favour: Williams car had more 120 hp (you read well), as many suspected during the season and was confirmed when Benetton went for the 95 season with a Benetton-Renault. Flavio and MS realized then the achievement MS reached during 94 seson. Senna knew the driving style of MS was revolutionary: he used massively the 2 feet to drive, an advantage that all the others must follow since then. The rest is already exposed: Senna was disturbed and he knew it perfectly: he said, at Imola, Sid Watkins something was very wrong because he made in 3 races the same amount of errors he used to do in all season. Then he called AP to tell him how he was missing him. Finally, sunday morning, he called Adrina Galisteu (his girlfriend) confessing he felt he should not race because he was feeling upset, like he should be another place doing something else.

All 3 veteran F1 reporters, sad, confirmed the allegations and concluded that the worst part of F1 for a champion his decadence and Senna lived his share the hard way because he was entering it and he was frighten with the idea he always reject: his plans of success were thaught as long term extensions.

[917k]

Couldn't possibly be true.Schumi can only win in a superior car ;)

[kenny]

the accurcy of this article is really realistic...
120HP???? yeah right

[karlth]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah
I found this topic on dailyf1.com and came accrossed with this topic which I found very interesting and disturbing. Well I will just paste the article and let you decide it for yourselves.

...

Other F1 reporter (I didn't understand the name) was categorically: "Senna was beeing destroyed because his worst guesses were becoming real: MS was his decisive menace and he felt the wind wasn't at his personal favour: Williams car had more 120 hp (you read well), as many suspected during the season and was confirmed when Benetton went for the 95 season with a Benetton-Renault. Flavio and MS realized then the achievement MS reached during 94 seson. Senna knew the driving style of MS was revolutionary: he used massively the 2 feet to drive, an advantage that all the others must follow since then.

Sounds like crap to me.

Firstly Schumacher braked with his right foot in 1994 so unless the authors want to attribute heal and toe to Schumacher I have no idea what "used massively the 2 feet." means.

Secondly eventhough the Ford V8 was most certainly down on power it was lighter and much more driveable.

And lastly saying that Senna was destroyed in 1994 is wrong at best.

[JForce]

Very interesting. Although it takes a bit to translate correctly in my head, if it is true, it would shake the very foundations of the Senna-worshippers. The flip-side of that of course is that it could be made up by Shoe-worshippers.

[Ray Bell]

Amalik...

You have done well to express yourself in English, obviously not your native tongue, and if these things are true you are exposing a story I've never heard before... about Senna's emotions leading up to his final race. A kind of premonition of disaster seems to be creeping in.

But as for the horsepower difference, I simply don't believe that was as great as that.

[SeanValen]

Interesting, but I know Renault was a great engine, but that Williams was not handeling very well in those early races, why is that ignored? Over a race, he certainly was taking it to the extremes, compared to his teamate Damon Hill, which I think should be the better comparison of how Ayrton was doing then. I'm a Senna and Schumacher fan, so like to hear it all fully. The 1994 championship was 16 races, not the first 3, so it started out bad for Senna, surely disappointed that Williams were not starting out with a greater car as in 1993, so I understand the disappointment. Best thing to say is what Michael said "Senna would of been very difficult to beat in 1994." Respect to 2 greats, no respect to articles that don't tell it all.


I writ firstly if I believe the article was accurate, silly me, but I trust people too much sometimes, but important thing here is:

Senna and Schumacher

[karlth]

Damon Hill talks about the 1994 Brasilian GP:

"If a car was not capable of winning, Ayrton could make it win. In the
Brazilian Grand Prix, for instance, he had a car which was a bit off the
pace of Schurnacher's Benetton. Yet he was able to stay with Michael and I
was astounded that he had been able to do that with a car which, if it was
anything like mine, simply wasn't handling.

At one stage they were about to lap me. Michael came through and I thought I
had better get out of Ayrton's way. But, almost before I had taken the
decision, he dived past me and nearly went off. He was heading towards the
grass and just managed to slither through. He had completely messed up the
corner but, to him, the important thing was to get by; he wasn't going to
lose any time hanging around waiting for me."

[kenny]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah




Belli, a reporter that covered F1 since the beginning (now with 72 years), related a very strange situation related with Brazil 94 that was kept in the shadow because the tragic events that occured 15 days later at Imola.

The words of Senna became prophetic: MS never more win races from him, because he died the next GP, stated Belli.

Well actually Imola happened more than a month after.. AIDA came between this race and Imola.. so the reported is deffinitly telling BS

it's incredible how people can keep coming up with BS...

[Rene]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah
MS reached during 94 seson. Senna knew the driving style of MS was revolutionary: he used massively the 2 feet to drive, an advantage that all the others must follow since then. .

MS didn't start using the "2 feet" style of driving until 1996....the story is completely bogus, since anyone who was supposedly so close to MS would know that

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Sounds like total crap to me, reminds me of Russian F1 reports, with half the things wrong, and the other half made up. Numerous factual errors, and the whole thing sounds totally implausible.

[Mat]

It also fails to mention that Senna's feelings of not wanting to race in Imola might have had something to do with Barrichello's crash on Friday and Ratznberger's death on Saturday.

And he didnt make 3 errors in 3 races. He made one (spinning off in Brazil).

mat

[Almalik_Abdullah]

To avoid any confusions this article was taken from F1-live.com forum and was simply picked up by someone named SPM13 who then posted it on dailyf1.com forum. Well as for this article I think this is just pure rubbish and a blatant disregard to what have Senna accomplished when he was still alive. People now who are suppose to be experts are now taking and making bias opinions and thus create this perception of greatness or make and define of what is greatness. Now that MS equalled the great Fangios record of winning 5 WDC's some experts now who were in favor of Schu will probably just make up some stories to make this man above and beyond the best among the greats and peers. Yes if we look at the statistics the main man Shu is the best but is statistics really the realy measure of greatness? If not pls. elaborate and If not educate me so that I can gain some lesson from here on.

[Almalik_Abdullah]

I am really sorry for the spelling errors I made, I'm just typing too fast and sometimes hit the wrong letter.

[farQ]

bullshit.

[Williams]

This is a bunch of reporters shooting the breeze in front of the camera. It's not like they were writing a properly researched article. There is lots of scope for mistatements, exaggeration, poorly remembered events and slips of the tongue. Then it was reported third or fourth hand with some translation.

TV media types generating this sort of on-air time-filler, not meant to go on paper and possibly on a slow F1-news day, might not worry too much about playing a bit loose with the facts to try to make an interesting segment.

[AyePirate]

I've read that the gap was more like 80 bhp and then there were those extra buttons on the steering
wheel ;)

[ZZMS]

I seem to remember Flavio Briatore saying in 1998 in defence to his Supertec (rumored 40hp deficit to back-than-most-powerful Merc) that in 1994 Benetton had 70hp disadvatage to Renault and it didn't stop MS from winning races and WDC.

[Simioni]

While Senna was still alive the difference was less than 40 HP. Cosworth's new Zetec-R was a complimentary item in benetton's tidy package early in 94 more than a shortcoming. As the season went on though the difference stretched up to 70 HP as renault introduced new specs while cosworth all but stood still.

[revvhead]

down on power it was, 120 bhp i doubt

[Nikos Spagnol]

COMPLETE BS!

First of all, Brazil '94 race was decided on the pits: Senna was leading and the both pitted together, with MS coming out at first position. Later, they discovered that Benetton fuel ring was illegal, which caused fasters pit-stops. It also caused Verstappen's pit fire in Hockenheim, on the same year.

And then, even driving a car with serious handling problems, Senna scored pole-positions on the last 3 races of his life. He made a mistake in Interlagos, right, but Aida's and Imola's crashes were surely not his fault.

Senna was not on his better form, but was still great. I guess '94 and '95 seasons would be a good fight between him and MS, and then Senna would retire. Saddily, it wasn't like that.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Simioni
While Senna was still alive the difference was less than 40 HP. Cosworth's new Zetec-R was a complimentary item in benetton's tidy package early in 94 more than a shortcoming. As the season went on though the difference stretched up to 70 HP as renault introduced new specs while cosworth all but stood still.

This sounds very reasonable to me. What isn't reasonable is the assertion that the Zetec's size and fuel economy made it the better engine. The Ford was built based on ideas put forward before refueling was legalized. The V10 was already proving the way to go, with Honda and Renault enjoying V10 powered success every year but 1991, when Honda won with a V12. However, Cosworth thought that an exceptional V8 would have a shot due to better fuel economy. This would have made a bigger difference when they had to carry all their fuel at the start of the race. The Zetec-R powered car could have started races with a meaningfully lighter weight. When refueling was legalized, this advantage was minimized. The result? Michael insisted that Benetton get him an engine with competitive power for '95, Ford started their own V10, and NOBODY went to a V8 in the development cycle following the '94 season, which was well before the regulation to standardize V10s came into effect. Considering that new engines of only 3 liters were needed for '95 only shows how deficient the V8 was when coupled with refueling. If a 3.5 V8 made sense against V10s, then a 3 liter V8 would have made more sense. Had V10s not been standardized, the fear was that the big spenders would run V12s or W12s at Hockenheim and Monza only, not that anyone would bother building a V8 for Monaco.

As to the article, there are many factual errors that have been correctly pointed out above. Senna was upset because Roland Ratzenburger died and Rubens had come too close, needing to be revived after swallowing his tongue. Schumacher had 3 pedals until he was asked to hop into a car that Eddie Irvine was testing, which had Eddie's 2 pedal set up, during the '96 season. 120 hp? I don't think so. The Renault probably didn't have more than about 700 hp. That means Michael would have had to beat a car with 21% more power than he had at his disposal. With the big slicks and wings of '94, you would think that Damon could have found a way to make use of that power.

[man from martinlaakso]

I think, that one thing is absolutely clear. In 1994 Williams just could not have 120 hps more Benetton. If we are talking about 20-40 hps more, then it might be true. I think, that Williams had a stronger engine than Benetton. But Benetton had compensatory things, so it was not at all a bad car. MS did well to beat DH in 1994 although he had three races less than DH, although the way MS cut ahead of DH in Adelaide was unethical but not illegal.

There are several myths, which MS-worshippers have landed. One was the myth, that McLaren had 100 hps more than Ferrari in Argentina in 1998 (MS won that race). Even the Finnish TV-reporters were buying that crap at that time. Sure Ferrari engine was weaker than Ilmor, but not nearly 100 hps. The biggest advantage, that McLaren had in the early 1998 season, was a rsult of Bridgestone being well ahead of Goodyear.

[Frans]

"You''ll never win from me more races like that, not in front of my people, are you listening to me?!"

I knew where he was TALKING about.....

And ONLY Michael used it, back then, PUSHING people to the limit..... especially Aryton!

That Williams had more hp than the Benetton, highly possible, but this also implies that indeed Benetton did not play fair like following the regulations!!!

I still found what they did at Benetton un-responsible............ Even to cry about. or go BESERK about

In qualifying there was no great surprise that Ayrton Senna was on pole position but Michael Schumacher's second place was a surprise. Already there were allegations that the team had found a way around the new F1 electronic regulations which banned the most sophisticated electronics which helped the drivers. These included fully-automatic gearboxes, traction control and launch control - a system which allowed a driver to simply push the accelerator fully on when the start was given without needing to pay attention to wheel-spin or gear changes.

On lap 21 Senna and Schumacher pitted together. The Benetton stop was amazingly quick and Michael emerged ahead. Schumacher then began to pull away.

The order remained the same at the front after the second pit stop until lap 56 when Senna spun, pushing his car beyond the limit as he tried to catch Schumacher.

look LATER THAT YEAR:

FIA disciplinary ruling press release
F1





By FIA Media Relations

The FIA World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 26 July 1994 under the presidency of Max Mosley, President of the FIA, to consider the report of the FIA Observer at the 1994 British Grand Prix and to decide whether any, or any further penalty should be imposed against the drivers of cars #0, 5, 7, and 14, or their respective teams, and against the Clerk of the Course, Mr. Pierre Aumonier.

After hearing the defence of all relevant parties, the World Motor Sport Council decided the following:

1. To impose a penalty of one race suspension on the driver of car #7 (Mika Hakkinen) for breach of Article 118 and Article 66 of the Formula One Sporting Regulations. In consideration of extenuating circumstances, the penalty is suspended for three races and will only be applied if a breach of the same part of the Formula One Sporting Regulations is made by Mr. Mika Hakkinen during that period.

2. To impose a penalty of one race suspension on the driver of car #14 (Rubens Barrichello) for breach of Article 118 and Article 66 of the Formula One Sporting Regulations. In consideration of extenuating circumstances, the penalty is suspended for three races and will only be applied if a breach of the same part of the Formula One Sporting Regulations is made by Mr. Rubens Barrichello during that period.

3. To acquit the driver of car #0 (Damon Hill). Mr. Hill was able to show that he slowed but did not stop and therefore did not breach Article 151 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

4. To exclude Benetton Formula Ltd. from the results of the 1994 British Grand Prix and impose a fine of 500,000 US$ for failing on several occasions to obey the instructions of the officials of the 1994 British Grand Prix. This penalty cancels and replaces the one imposed by the Stewards at the British Grand Prix.

5. To exclude the driver of car #5 (M. Schumacher) from the results of the British Grand Prix and impose on him a suspension of two races for non- observation of the black flag of the British Grand Prix.

Both Benetton Formula Ltd. and Mr. Schumacher have the right to appeal in front of the International Court of Appeal of the FIA through their respective National Sporting Authorities. If Michael Schumacher appeals, he will be allowed to race and to score full points until the appeal is heard.

6. The FIA World Motor Sport Council also found that the Clerk of the Course, Mr. Pierre Aumonider (Great Britain) failed in his duties with regard to various points. The FIA World Motor Sport Council decided to impose a suspension of one year of the super licence of Mr. Pierre Aumonier. The World Motor Sport Council also asked the Royal Automobile Club Motor Sport Association to conduct a full investigation into the organisation of the 1994 British Grand Prix and implement the necessary measures to avoid the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

The FIA World Motor Sport Council also considered the report of the FIA Formula One Technical Delegate in respect of the electronic systems used on car #5 (Michael Schumacher) at the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix.

After hearing the representatives of Benetton Formula Ltd., the World Motor Sport Council reached the conclusion that, in common with the other two teams, Benetton's computer system contained a facility capable of breaching the regulations. In the absence of any evidence that the device was used and certain evidence that it was not, the World Council imposed no penalty involving the results of the event.

The World Council imposed a fine of 100,000 US$ on Benetton Formula Ltd for failing to make their computer source codes available immediately. An identical fine was imposed on McLaren for the same reason subject to McLaren's right to demand a hearing in October.

Paris, 26 July 1994

[TwilightShark]

The guy who wrote this must be a scriptwriter
Senna going to michael and crying...gimme a break,
we know michael is capable of beating a car that is superior to his, lets just say Willaims did have a car with 120hp more, if u told me the schumeister beat hill in that car i would believe ... but tryin to beat Senna, in a car that has 120bhp less not once but thrice is impossible even for Michael. And i am sure, even the staunch-est Michael fan will agree with me.
and anyway there was a race after brazil, so i guess the prophecies of senna havent come true!!!
(this is fer the ppl who believe tat bullshit)



Senna, Schumacher both are legends..
dunt waste your time tryin to prove this statement otherwise.....

[silver]

It was Hakkinen, not Schumacher, who introduced 2 pedal system to F1 during 1994 winter tests...

[Frans]

silver I also have reports of the 1994 Ferrari with Jean Alesi and Berger who were accused of using driver aids.

Ferrari


>From the Motoring News (20/4/94),

There was controversy at TI when there was suspicion that
Ferrari was using a traction control system. They described
it as a "engine modulation system", but gave no further
explanation. It is assumed to be act as a variable rev limiter
for each gear. The first mention of it was by Nicola Larini
in an interview with the Italian media on Saturday evening.

A FIA spokesman said, "I can categorically state that the system
was explained to the Technical Delegate [Charlie Whiting], and that
he told Ferrari not to run with it."

Apparently Renault and Charlie Whiting were both taking tape
recordings around the circuit to check for traction control
systems.

Flavio Briatore of Benetton dismissed suggestions that there
would be protests. "I no protest nobody", he said. "It is too
fantastic to believe that Ferrari would run with traction control,
and in any case, I never protest anybody in F1. The problem
is that the FIA introduced this rule which cannot be policed,
and it is up to the FIA to deal with these matters, not the
teams. How can you prove it one way or the other ?"

One team owner who did not want to be identified said: "I am
100% certain that Ferrari is using some sort of restrictive
system. With an 800bhp V12 that really lights up thanks to
a steep torque curve, I believe they'd run it all the time
if they could. They say its an engine modulation system, but
what is that if it doesn't perform traction control ?"

On the Sunday, the FIA released a statement to the press, to the
annoyance of Giancarlo Bacchini of Ferrari:

"It came to the notice of the FIA Technical Delegate that during
the Free Practice Sessions on Saturday, cars numbered 27 and
28 were fitted with a device which, in certain circumstances,
limited the power of the engine. As the FIA Technical Delegate
was not satisfied that the device complied in all respects with
the Sporting and Technical Regulations, Ferrari were advised
not to use it. This advice was not complied with.

"In order to give a definitive view on the conformity or otherwise
of such a device, the FIA Technical Department would have first
to be in possession of full details of the device, including, where
appropriate, the relevant software."

so yeah the Benetton driver wasn't the only one who tried it, other teams, included McLaren Ferrari and thus Michael (ONLY driver at Benetton, NOT Jos) were all experimenting and or using the driver aids.

we know what happened..

[Frans]

Pacific GP 1994, from the F1 Enceclopedia;

At the start both Schumacher and Senna got away well but Michael was slightly quicker. Senna's car twitched as they braked but the Brazilian decided it was best not to slam the door. Schumacher was worried that Senna would power ahead at the exit of the corner and so he lifted slightly. He said that this was to ensure that the Ford engine was in the right rev range at the exit. Senna was not expecting it and lifted off while Hakkinen was not ready for a sudden hesitation by Senna and crashed into the back of the Williams, tipping the car into a spin. Senna's car took off Larini while there were various bumps further back in the field as everyone tried to get through.

With Senna standing beside the track watching (and listening for traction-control) Schumacher drove away form the rest of the field at a remarkable pace while Hakkinen ran second.

[AndreasF1]

Almalik:

Yeah right, why couldnt Schumacher beat Senna in 1993 when his Benetton head a realistic 30 hp more than Sennas McLaren? Remember, Senna won 5 GPs that year against Schumachers 1....
Let me ask you, how much did Schumacher pay you to post that BS?

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by man from martinlaakso
There are several myths, which MS-worshippers have landed. One was the myth, that McLaren had 100 hps more than Ferrari in Argentina in 1998 (MS won that race). Even the Finnish TV-reporters were buying that crap at that time. Sure Ferrari engine was weaker than Ilmor, but not nearly 100 hps. The biggest advantage, that McLaren had in the early 1998 season, was a rsult of Bridgestone being well ahead of Goodyear.

I have never seen anyone on Atlas say that Ferrari was down 100hp in 1998. As you alluded to, the biggest advantage the Macs had were their tyres, and that's what pretty much all the Schumi fans said too.

[Vrba]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah
....
"You''ll never win from me more races like that, not in front of my people, are you listening to me?!"

MS was confused and try to smile and obtain explanations but Senna left the place in tears.
....

If this is true Senna was a seriously sick man.

But the whole story is suspicious and hard to believe.

Hrvoje

[The Rock]

120 HP is absolute rubbish,of course the Williams may have had the superior engine power but the Benetton had other things that the Williams didn't have of course.;)

[Gemini]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah



The words of Senna became prophetic: MS never more win races from him, because he died the next GP, stated Belli.

Mr Belli seems to forget about Aida race...

[John]

Somebody help me! Concerning the issue of using 2 feet:

I recall seeing a special on Alain Prost and in the McLaren (I don't know what year) they had video of his feet with 3 pedals (one is a clutch, unless its another "McLaren" pedal).

It looked like he was using both feet to brake as well as one foot for both throttle/brake and the other to clutch. He was literally dancing in the car. It was incredible.

Does anyone know where that video is? Is that type of pedal use typical at the time? I just don't quite understand what significance the 2-foot method would have (other than the introduction of semi-automatic transmissions, which would not be credited to a driver), when real majic was at the very foot of The Professor in that video.

[AD]

Originally posted by AndreasF1
...Yeah right, why couldnt Schumacher beat Senna in 1993 when his Benetton head a realistic 30 hp more than Sennas McLaren? Remember, Senna won 5 GPs that year against Schumachers 1...

According to Ron Dennis the 1993 McLaren chassis was possibly the best they ever built. Anyways, the article is very bogus indeed...

[slipstream]

According to Racecar Engineering Magazine at the Start of the 1994 Season the Ford Cosworth had around 740 HP and the Renault V-10 and Ferrari V-12 had around 780 HP. They clamied the Ford Cosworth V-8 could rev to@14,800 rpm and had a@smoother Torque Curve than the other Engines. The Renault was not even the most powerful Engine in 1994 as by the end of season the Ferrari V-12 was said to have over 825 HP.

[BobP]

1. While ah have never been not muchuva fan a Senna's, ah have grieved at his manner a checkin' outta the circus.

2. This thread startin' post whiffs like hoss exhaust, whines like yesterdaze cheese, an' jus' plain lays there like a pileuvit. QED it are hoss exhaust!

Forza witha damned big Aw Jeeeez fellerz!

Bob

[Megatron]

I think the 94 Williams suffered more than any other car from the elimination of traction control and active suspension. The lines of the car went down the same path as the 91-93 cars, so Patrick proabably underestimated the importance of electronics.

Benetton had an incredible car, and an underated engine. The Ford was no pig, and there are some ludicrus assumptions that since it was a V8, it was bad. Renault were better, but not by an awful lot.

Of course Ferrari proabably benifited most from the elimination of electronic aids, considering they never HAD an effective system anyway...

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by Almalik_Abdullah

"You''ll never win from me more races like that, not in front of my people, are you listening to me?!"

I find this a very unlikely story: don't you think this would have come up earlier in the press, with so many GP reporters around and people at the motorhomes. Senna's every step was noted in those days, especially in Brasil! In Japan when he went to confront Eddie, there was even a recording of the conversation they had. Well after the race. GP reporters do report every thing that GP drivers do, and even those with the status of Senna at the time. I bet that even when he farted it was big news!

As for the race itself: Senna made a mistake. He was beaten indeed during the pitstops. But he made a mistake and with approx. 25 laps to go we had a long way to go. So it was the first race of the season and for a guy like Ayrton I don't think he would go desperate crying in front of the man he initially disliked.
I could agree with that this mistake he made, and that he was pushed by Schumacher to go over the limit of his car, was a big blow to him. But we saw moments like that before when Mika outqualified him at Estoril. He came back to beat outqualifying him in Japan and Australia and taking both races.

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by BobP
1. While ah have never been not muchuva fan a Senna's, ah have grieved at his manner a checkin' outta the circus.

2. This thread startin' post whiffs like hoss exhaust, whines like yesterdaze cheese, an' jus' plain lays there like a pileuvit. QED it are hoss exhaust!

Forza witha damned big Aw Jeeeez fellerz!

Bob

could you repeat that in understandalbe English?

[krakbuis]

Originally posted by BobP
1. While ah have never been not muchuva fan a Senna's, ah have grieved at his manner a checkin' outta the circus.

2. This thread startin' post whiffs like hoss exhaust, whines like yesterdaze cheese, an' jus' plain lays there like a pileuvit. QED it are hoss exhaust!

Forza witha damned big Aw Jeeeez fellerz!

Bob

Maybe we can ask Ali-G for a translation