21 replies to this topic

[dick]

I was watching a bike race at Brands Hatch and found myself marvelling at what a wonderful track it is. Is it purely a safety issue why F1 no longer runs there? I love the elevation changes and realized that they are part of all the great race tracks. Spa, the old Osterreichring, Nurburgring, Road America, etc. are anything but flat. I think maybe that is part of the reason the new tracks are so dull.

[philhitchings]

Probably right but John Prescott stuffed the Brands bid to host the GBGP

[tania_walesuk]

Totally agree why on earth they don't use that marvellous track is beyond me its obvious a business decision or politics Senna loved it loads of drivers loved it and the last 2 Grands Prix that were held there in 85 and 86 were fantasic vintage racing events especially 85 Senna on a brilliant pole in his first full year Piquet up there flying too Prost winning his first championship Mansell winning his first race Rosberg on a mega fight back to the podium after a puncture and Marc Surer on a flyer in the other Brabham '86 I was there and a brilliant Mansell fight back yet again what a day that was I sneaked through the forest up to Dingle Dell the image of Senna coming around into dingle dell in the lead at the first start with the field right behind him was one of the most amazing sights I've ever seen with the boiling weather too what a day it was.

[Dudley]

They were going to upgrade Brands Hatch but the local hippies wouldn't let them cut down any trees.

Brands also suffers a noise curfew. Last time I was there a 40min race had to be cut to 3 laps because Brands Hatch is allowed NO racing after 6:30pm.

[baddog]

I completely agree that elevation changes are often the big defining difference between a decent circuit and one of real character

Shaun

[dick]

How I envy you Tania. That must have been incredible. I always thought Brands a much more exciting track than Silverstone especially in the latter's present guise. With talk of losing Spa, I fear we will have no classic tracks left. Even Monza kind of sucks with the silly chicanes. Hopefully the changes at Imola with help. Would it be too much to ask for maybe some man made hills and dips to give new circuits character?

[Gary C]

IMHO Brands is THE best track we have in the UK. Especially the Grand Prix loop out the back, great corners! Oh, to have the GP back there. Saying that, I hope we never do, because then there would have to be too many changes and half the character of the place would disappear over night.

[dick]

Gary,
I'm from the States so I've never been to Brands Hatch. It seems like such a pretty setting. Is it? I know I'm probably just weird but having a race track in a pretty area seems to add so much. So many tracks now just seem to be hacked out in the middle of no-where with no landscaping what so ever. Probably one of the reasons I hate ovals...just concrete and steel.

[Rob29]

120,000 people were reported to be at Brands last Sunday,but no report of traffic chaos. Maybe they all went by bike! At least they would not have had to ruin the Northamptonshire countyside with new road works,if they had moved the car GP to Brands.

[Bex37]

Brands Hatch; I love it

[Eric McLoughlin]

The British Superbike week-wnd is now Britain's largest motor-sport event. easily outstripping the F1 GP spectator wise. I too hope that Brands never gets the F1 GP as the compulsory changes required to suit the "needs" of the F! contingent would destoy the ambience of the place forever.

Brands Hatch has a great history and, like Goodwood, still retaims much of the original character of the track. There have been some changes since the glory days but the track layout has remained essentially the same since the early 60's.

[mikedeering]

There are many probs with Brands as a GP venue - and I hope they never get it back because that would effectively mean ripping the heart out of the current site.

The pits is very cramped - sandwiched between the main and back straights means little room for the monster motor homes that are now such a part of F1.

The whole track is fairly narrow - although a real driving challenge, I suspect any modern F1 race would feature little passing.

But I agree its a wonderful track in a beautiful setting.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Dudley
They were going to upgrade Brands Hatch but the local hippies wouldn't let them cut down any trees.

You don't have to be a 'hippy' to object to the destruction of the natrual environment for the benefit of the pampered F1 crowd.

[Eric McLoughlin]

The objection to the destruction of the trees came, not from local "green" protesters but from the local council. In Britain there have been laws governing the protection of trees for many, many years - easily pre-dating the "environmental" movement of the early 70's. It is quite common, for example, to see planning applications in my local paper by residents wishing to prune or chop down trees ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Trees in Britain can be granted protection under local council orders too.

Apparently, the wooded area in the centre of Brands Hatch is quite ancient and probably dates back to pre-Norman times ie. the 11th century.

[MrJ]

A Lap of Brands Hatch Onboard with Jackie Stewart

A More Complete Lap with John Watson

Just thought I'd contribute by bringing back some nostalgia, and also digging the knife in a little bit deeper at the same time! Sorry everyone!

Regards,

MrJ

[FrankB]

Originally posted by Rob29
At least they would not have had to ruin the Northamptonshire countyside with new road works,if they had moved the car GP to Brands.

Yes, but don't forget that the countryside around Brands Hatch has been messed around pretty thoroughly in the past to build / upgrade the A20 and and M20.

With regard to felling trees - why should any sport, organisation or individual presume the automatic right to do what suits them without regard to the impact that their actions will have on others, either in the short or long term?

"We don't inherit our environment from our parents, we borrow it from our children"

[Liam]

I've only been to Brands once, for the BTCC/F3 races this spring, but it did strike me as probablt the best track in the country.
It's never going to become a modern F1 track though. If you stand at Dingle Dell, you can see just past the gravel trap is a housing estate, and their are houses all along the back od the track hidden only by trees. Like it or not, the noise pollution laws will always be against Brands now the town has grown to it's edges.

The paddock area as it is now is not modern F1, with the pits on the main straight and the paddock on the other side of the track! Add to that the very little runoff on all the corners and it is clear that as it stands now Brands could not host modern F1. It could be changed, but to do so would mean making so many changes that it would essentially be building a new track, and nobody would build a track in Brands Hatch today if one did not already exist, and you would never get planning permission to upgrade whats there anyway.

I, for one, am happy this is how it is. I like being able to stand on the grass banks and watch the cars close up, not having to sit in a stand and overlook a sea of gravel, or now tarmac, to see the cars and have to pay a fortune for the priviledge. I love Brands as it is, and would hate to think what the necessary changes to "modern F1 standards" would do to the place.

I don't mean to imply I don't like the new track, or disapprove of the safety standards, I certainly don't, but a track like Brands is totally unsuitable for F1, but perfect for all the national and club events such as the BTCC, F3, GT, Renault Clio's, etc etc that race their all the time, and to me, it's F1's loss.


As for the elevation question, I have to agree, elevation changes are essesntial to making a classic race track, something that guy who has designed most modern F1 tracks seems to have forgotten, unfortunatly.
Bruce McLaren said of his first trip to the 'ring that on his way there he studied a track layout and thought there was only one or two difficult corners. It was only as he drove around on his first lap he realised the effect of the elevation changes making just about every corner difficult and a challenge. More hills in F1 I say!

[Captain Cranckcase]

If they can race at Monaco they can race at Brands. If they moved the GP to Brands that would get me attending the British GP again. Silverstone just has no character. Why does Bernie have to modify and ruin every circuit for his TV? Most people are turning off because the circuits and races are so dull.

[Locai]

Originally posted by Captain Cranckcase
If they can race at Monaco they can race at Brands. If they moved the GP to Brands that would get me attending the British GP again. Silverstone just has no character. Why does Bernie have to modify and ruin every circuit for his TV? Most people are turning off because the circuits and races are so dull.

Therein lies the catch. Monaco would never get approval as a new addition to the GP schedule today. If Monaco ever loses its GP it will probably never get it back.

[aportinga]

Thanks for the links MrJ!

I agree with Brands Hatch being a great track. Sadly F1 is only interested in developing Mickey Mouse Tracks as well as ripping apart classic ones..... Hmm is this perhaps to derive a better formula for racing???

Isn't that practice what we often call NASCAR?

[dick]

I can understand why Brands might not be up to modern F1 safety standards, but what precludes track designers from adding elevation change to new tracks. The new Hockenheim looks like they just tried to cram as many corners as possible into a small area. The Hungaroring is the same way and also France. As bad as it was to have a GP in a parking lot in Vegas, many of the newer tracks really don't have much more character. As for TV viewing, I had no problem with the coverage of the Superbike race at Brands Hatch.

[Schummy]

I dislike current trend of tracks which the whole layout can be seen from every point. It is a sort of giant Scalextric, a big parking zone, without character.

I like circuits with landscape, maybe trees (obviously protected), maybe terrain features. I don't know what satisfaction can have one looking cars from one mile at a shallow angle. Anyway I prefer to have a good TV-wise track than a spectators-wise track for the simple reason that I could not go to maore than 2 or 3 F1 races in a season, and I can see 16 (or 17) races on TV, no counting the amount of non F1 races I watch on TV along one year.

I fully agreed with the elevation changes factor, and I'd add another question: current tracks designed with straight rules and compass (constant radius corners, absolutely straight "straights", so nice and so uninteresting)