31 replies to this topic

[biercemountain]

It would make a wicked hotrod, but I've never heard of it personally. Does anyone know if some ambitious gear-head has ever stuffed a Cosworth DVF or similar F1 engine into a road car.

I don't count cars like the Ferrari F50 with it's 333sp V12 motor because it's purpose built. I'm talking about a conversion or kit car.

Can you imagine a Mustang with a Cosworth under the hood?

[AdamLarnachJr]

Better yet, a Corvaire with the 2001 spec Infiniti IRL engine!

[desmo]

I think a Lotus Europa might make a good starting point for a sort-of period correct DFV street rocket. And no I can't recall any DFV powered street specials. The Nostalgia Forum bunch would be worth trying for more definitive answers.

[david_martin]

A Europa with a DFV? Apart probably being the first transverse DFV installation, it would be a hell of a tight squeeze

[peetbee]

The only similar thing I'd heard of was a Renault Espace from the late 90's(?) that Renault built for promotional purposes with their F1 engine. I suspect it was little more than a space frame with the Espace body as it was mid/rear engined and I don't believe it was road legal.
A Lotus Esprit fitted with one of the Renault turbo F1 engines from the mid eighties would be more than welcome in my garage!

[scarbs]

A big vibrating DFV in a road car, wow that woud be something to try!

I recall Norton created a two cylinder bike engine using a sliced up DFV, back in the early eighties... some one else also used two cylinders off a Rolls Royce Merlin aero engine.

Conversely BMW the eighties used stock engine blocks for their four cylinder turbo engine, does any current road egine come up to that spec...?

[BRG]

Ford built the Supervan, a FOrd Transit van which featured a DFV. But it wasn't really a road vehicle. Currently, they have Supervan 3, a Transit based on Focus WRC mechanicals.

Desmo mentioned the Lotus Europa - I don't remember a DFV version, but there was a very nice GKN Special built by the GKN engineering company using their products. I think that was fitted with a Rover V8, so a DFV would have easily fitted. By the way, David, the Europa did not have a tranverse engine, it was a classic mid-engine, rear transaxle layout. The orignal road car used the Renault 16 engine and transmission, the later ones used the Lotus twin-cam mated to the Renault box.

Anyway, I can't remember a DFV powered road car, but I would be astonished if someone somewhere hadn't done it by now!

[david_martin]

I knew the Europa drivetrain was Renault 16 based, I just had it in my head that it (and the Renault 16) was an East-West and not North-South engine layout.

[SB]

Originally posted by peetbee
The only similar thing I'd heard of was a Renault Espace from the late 90's(?) that Renault built for promotional purposes with their F1 engine. I suspect it was little more than a space frame with the Espace body as it was mid/rear engined and I don't believe it was road legal.

Yes, they did so in 1993/4 when they partnered with Williams F1. It is mid-engine and basically a FW14/15 chassis covered by a Espase body.

SB

[da Silva]

F1 engine in road car is something but what about the other way around?
Converting an open wheeled formula car to road use. I know about an japanese guy who
converted an F3000 reynard? to a road legal car. He used an I think Nissan V6 and put on
"cycle wings" simular to Caterham over the wheels and lights and indicators etc.
He had of course to raisen the ride height too.

Cosworth DFV, yes but today a Zytech F3000 engine must be an good choise otherwise with good reliability or an AJP8 with some few tweeks.

Murrays The Rocket from light car company comes to mind about an converted formula car but that one is very expensive. Why not just buy an FFord and take out the Cortina lump and install an Hayabusa engine with it´s gearbox. FFords weight just over 400kg right? The Suzuki package
must save 50-100kg from the total weight. It would be an fun road car sliding in the curves.

[MrAerodynamicist]

da Silva, see http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=45776

[Scoots]

I think I have an article on that Espace somewhere ... I'll look for it.

[Jezztor]

Here it is. Saw it a few years ago actually. I'm not sure I buy that top speed.

Renault Espace F1 Concept

[Scoots]

Have a scan of the article, but no way to post it ... if you want it e-mail me.

[andy_bee]

For my design degree (back in 94). I did a road legal racecar to FiA GT regs. It was the year before the McLaren F1 came on the scene.

Anyway, to keep costs down, I started to investigate the use of Cosworth DFV/Y or R engines. It transpiered that there are still quite a few about (or were in 94) and it would be possible to run one in a roadcar in a de-tuned form. Problem was that youd need frequent engine rebuilds, possibly every 5000 miles. I cant remember the figures. I'll see if I can find my theysis in the loft and let you know.

piccy on my site in 3d section if anyone is bored- quite a few ideas on the Ferrari Enzo!

btw- Espace was at Goodwood and awesome

There is a guy in our rally championship who is running a really light weight Peugeot 205 with a Hayabusa engine. Goes like s*** of a shovel.... probably is its allowed to run in the under 1300 class, the same as our little Mini ;)

[andy_bee]

There was an article about the Espace in last Tuesday (or the issue before that) Autocar

[ray b]

caddy north star used in IRL and 24 hour enduro cars
is a eazy bolt in to a fiero and many have done this swap bolt up is a snap eltricks are the nitemare
not extacly a cossie but lotus worked on GMs vett 4 cammer
and the nothstar is a updated GM 4cam 4 v so some teck may have been used
from cossie via lotus to the northstar!!!!

[GrooveJet]

I saw the Espace F1 in action a few years back. It was demonstrated at the British GP weekend, can't remember the year, probably '95 or '96.
If I remember correctly it was driven by Jean-Christophe Buillion. It sounded amazing but in the context of a GP weekend it wasn't all that spectacular.

I saw the McLaren 2 seater a few years later with Martin Brundle driving Max Mosely, for some reason it made more of an impression, probably because it was obvious that Brundle was trying to scare Mosley s**tless.

[freq019]

BMW is talking about putting a V10 into the new 6-series, possibly only in the M version. It appears to me that BMW are the only manufacturer keen on implementing F1 technology into their roadcars.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by BRG
Ford built the Supervan, a Ford Transit van which featured a DFV. But it wasn't really a road vehicle. Currently, they have Supervan 3, a Transit based on Focus WRC mechanicals.

Desmo mentioned the Lotus Europa - I don't remember a DFV version, but there was a very nice GKN Special built by the GKN engineering company using their products. I think that was fitted with a Rover V8, so a DFV would have easily fitted.

Yeah, the "Ford Van", IIRC, was basically a fibre-glass and Kevlar mock-up of a British Ford Van placed on a full race-car chassis. This was done as some form of a promotion, I think. Tony Southgate was somehow invovled in the design of the project. I believe they used some form of variant of the DFV (used more for endurance racing then F1...) Can't quite recall all of the details..

The 4-cylinder Lotus Esprit (before Lotus developed their own V8) was commonly used with the GM Pontiac-Buick-Oldmobile/Rover Aluminium Block V8. I think John Dinkel of Road & Track actually owned one of these for a while, before offering it for sale. Clearances were rather tight. I recall they needed to adapt the engine to a race-car "dry sump" oil delivery system and/or relocate the oil filter assembly away from the engine.

[andy_bee]

DFX i think

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by freq019
BMW is talking about putting a V10 into the new 6-series, possibly only in the M version. It appears to me that BMW are the only manufacturer keen on implementing F1 technology into their roadcars.

I'd reckon that would be more marketing inspired. Or are they following Chrysler's truck engined Viper?;)

Ferrari's and Alfa claim that their gearboxes use F1 technology, as others, including the latest M3's, which seems the best implimentation of one in an almost affordable car. The launch control especially seems interesting in that car.

[Viss1]

And the new Enzo/F60 goes a few steps further with F1-inspired steering wheel and aero tricks.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Viss1
And the new Enzo/F60 goes a few steps further with F1-inspired steering wheel and aero tricks.

Yes.

[Fizzicist]

Out of curiosity, how much are you looking at to buy a DFV Cosworth lump?;)

[desmo]

I found a fairly recent advert for one on offer "freshly rebuilt" for £32,500. I believe they were originally sold for £1500 a pop! Got a Europa, preferably in black and gold JPS livery, and a shoehorn?

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by desmo
I found a fairly recent advert for one on offer "freshly rebuilt" for £32,500. I believe they were originally sold for £1500 a pop! Got a Europa, preferably in black and gold JPS livery, and a shoehorn?

A Super 7 would be more appropriate IMO. It'd be easier to see the engine, at least ...

[just me again]

Here is a link to a judd v10 engined Dome supercar

http://www.weismann.net/caspita.html

Bjørn

[merlyn6]

I can't seem to find the book right now but I remember seeing a Lotus seven fitted with a DFV and used as a hill climb car, or possibly a "Super Sports" car in the UK. It was godawfull ugly

[kober]

At the Champs Elysee boulevard in Paris is very strange Renault showroom - they're not selling normal cars, but only showing concepts and special cars. You can see the Espace there. I was there about three weeks ago and was very very glad to see it live.

[Renault4ever]

Originally posted by david_martin
I knew the Europa drivetrain was Renault 16 based, I just had it in my head that it (and the Renault 16) was an East-West and not North-South engine layout.

The R16 is most definitley north-south in layout. I know because I own one. Great car!.

[Mark Beckman]

Very close was an EH Holden (mid 60's mid size 4 door sedan made in Australia) that had a genuine Repco Brabham F1 3litre V8 dohc fitted to it for the sole purpose of road use in about 1969.