24 replies to this topic

[Rediscoveryx]

Where can I find more information and stats about Group C Sportscar racing in the mid 80's? It's very hard to find good information about other races than Le Mans.

[tyrrellp34]

Bruno Giacomelli mentioned once that the Porsches have had 1000 Kilos downforce just on the tail...

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
Where can I find more information and stats about Group C Sportscar racing in the mid 80's? It's very hard to find good information about other races than Le Mans.

Go to http://www.wspr-raci...nf_ms_home.html. You'll find the COMPLETE results of the World Sportscar Championship there including the Group C races!

[Rediscoveryx]

Thank you Geza Sury, that's exactly what I was looking for!

[Doug Nye]

Or if you have a power cut and would prefer to read a pretty stupendously good book on Group C - by candlelight, of course - seek a copy of 'Endurance Racing 1982-1991' by Ian Briggs, published as part of the Osprey Motor Sport series - ISBN 1-85532-228-5. It disappeared without trace when published but remaindered copies still appear occasionally. It is a wonderful work of reference which extends far beyond mere race results - though they are included - top 10 - throughout. In addition to the FIA Championships the top 12 results of IMSA rounds are appended - AND there's a wonderfully detailed car directory. In my judgement it is perhaps THE most under-rated motor sports book of the past 30 years.

DCN

[Don Capps]

Doug, I literally stumbled upon a copy of this book on a remainder table after having despaired of ever getting a copy. When I originally ordered it, it went on backorder and eventually the order was cancelled. On the same table as the Briggs book was the second volume of Andrew Whyte's Jaguar Racing series. I rarely have this sort of luck and snatched them both up for pennies on the dollar. I was never a big fan of Group C, but this is one good book.

[mp4]

I LOVED the Group C era. In North America, they called it GTP. In the '80s and early '90s, managed to attend many races at Mosport and Watkins Glen. The cars were gorgeous, the competition fierce and the drivers very open and friendly.
One year at Watkins Glen, a Joest 962 finished 2nd. It was the quickest car in qualifying, doing 210 on the back straight, albiet in a rather low downforce configuration.
After the race, I wandered through the paddock and saw Manuel Reuter looking like he'd just run a marathon. I asked him to sign my program, maybe my "Joest do it" tee shirt helped out a bit, but didn't have a pen.
He went out of his way to find a pen so he could scribble on the cover.
It was a nicer era then.

[troyf1]

I loved the GroupC era also. I am hoping that someone will write the definitive book on the 956/962 which are in my mind the cars that defined that era.

[mp4]

Right on Troy
They were, quite simply, absolutely gorgeous. There was a book written about the 956/962s. The name escapes me but if you look through old issues of "Excellence" magazine, there are many articles about these cars.
Happy hunting!

[troyf1]

Originally posted by mp4
Right on Troy
They were, quite simply, absolutely gorgeous. There was a book written about the 956/962s. The name escapes me but if you look through old issues of "Excellence" magazine, there are many articles about these cars.
Happy hunting!

I think it's the June issue of MotorSport magazine did a big article on the 956/962. I couldn't find it at any of the local bookstores so I called the distributor here in the states and they said that issue was on backorder from the UK. In my opinion the Rothmans 956/962's were the most gorgeous creations ever to grace a racing circuit....

[Rediscoveryx]

Originally posted by troyf1


I think it's the June issue of MotorSport magazine did a big article on the 956/962. I couldn't find it at any of the local bookstores so I called the distributor here in the states and they said that issue was on backorder from the UK. In my opinion the Rothmans 956/962's were the most gorgeous creations ever to grace a racing circuit....

Yes, there was a pretty extensive article (18 pages, though there's a lot of images...) in the 956/962's in the June issue of Motorsport (including a track test of the 1983 956).

[Doug Nye]

There are several variably good books on the 956/962 series cars...

DCN

[troyf1]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
There are several variably good books on the 956/962 series cars...

DCN

Doug can you point me in the direction of those books? Thanks in advance

[AndreasNystrom]

I loved GroupC too, and am a very big fan of 956.

About the downforce at the rear, its probably true.. about downforce in front, they actually used a extra front wing on brands hatch, to get some more grip. The car was 1.5secs faster per lap then the others that didnt use the extra front wing (I would love to see a picture of this)

The Porsche 956 was also the first car with semi-automatic gearbox with gearpaddles behind the steeringwheel that ive heard of. Stuck had this on his car.. added a bit of extra wheight, but he thought it was better.

It also used some sort of progressive dampers / suspension,. that changed when the cars fuelload got lighter.. ah.. what a car!.

If you are a very rich man, you maybe can find one of those 5-6 Dauer 962 that was converted into roadcars.. GroupC racer on autobahn

[JohnS]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Or if you have a power cut and would prefer to read a pretty stupendously good book on Group C - by candlelight, of course - seek a copy of 'Endurance Racing 1982-1991' by Ian Briggs, published as part of the Osprey Motor Sport series - ISBN 1-85532-228-5. It disappeared without trace when published but remaindered copies still appear occasionally.

Foyles in Charing Cross Road in London still had this in stock when I was in a couple of weeks ago.

John

[Frank de Jong]

Originally posted by AndreasNystrom
I loved GroupC too, and am a very big fan of 956.

About the downforce at the rear, its probably true.. about downforce in front, they actually used a extra front wing on brands hatch, to get some more grip. The car was 1.5secs faster per lap then the others that didnt use the extra front wing (I would love to see a picture of this)

Here you go:

This is Richard Lloyds 1984 version. Some teams copied this layout, but it did not return on the later 962's.

[mp4]

Troy,
Here's something to make you look at me with envy, or not...
In '85, at Mosport, my brother and I "wandered" into the pits during the evening. It was raining and the mechanics were looking a tad tired and grumpy.
We "liberated" a qualifying tire from the Rothmans team. I had a piece of plexy glass cut to size, for the top and it sits in my living room as a very cool coffee table.
We also tried to "liberate" a complete nose cone from a Group C Junior car, (I think it was from a Tiga) as it was sitting abandoned in one of the pit stalls. Thankfully it didn't fit into the trunk of my car as we saw it being used the next day, during the race.
My brother has a front wheel and tire from a 1976 Lotus F1 car in his office. It was from Gunnar Nilsson's car. I'd rather not say how that was acquired...
To all the kids out there "liberating" race car trinkets is wrong. You don't want to end up like us!

[troyf1]

mp4,


I called ewacars (the distributor of MotorSport here in the states) and they had restocked the June issue with the article on the 956/962. Great job on "liberating" the tire btw.....;)

[ensign14]

"Directory of World Sportscars" by Michael Cotton is also worth a look, an A-Z listing of Group C and IMSA cars, and should be quite cheap second hand. Curiously it misses out the Isolia. The book was part of a series published by Aston Publications, covering sports car racing post-war, and Jenks did an excellent book on historic racing cars in the same format with an eccentric pot-pourri of selections.

[Amaroo]

I have always thought that the 956/962 Porche was the best looking race car ever

[Chris_Noto]

Originally posted by Don Capps
I literally stumbled upon a copy of this book on a remainder table [snip] snatched them both up for pennies on the dollar.

Smart man! One "collectible" copy shows up on amazon.com, for US$110!

http://www.amazon.co...9645843-2651253

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Amaroo
I have always thought that the 956/962 Porche was the best looking race car ever

Free eye tests are available for deserving cases... shum mishtake surely?

DCN

[Rainer Nyberg]

The Ian Briggs book is very recommendable.

A dedicated book on the 956/962 is PORSCHE 956 962 by John Allen published by Haynes in 1988.

Maybe it can be still found in specialist stores or as a used book on the net, I wont sell my copy, though!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Amaroo
I have always thought that the 956/962 Porche was the best looking race car ever

Hmmm... wasn't even the best-looking GpC as far as I was concerned. The Lancia LC2 and the Viscount Downe Aston Martin Nimrod had it beat hands-down!

Group C wasn't a *bad* looking era, but are you seriously saying that a 956/962 is more aesthetically pleasing than, say, a 250F? If so, I can only extend my deepest sympathies to you
pete

[WGD706]

There's a 962 for sale ..........1985 Porsche 962C,Price: $295,000
Serial #118. One of Porsche's greatest endurance racers. History includes 4th place at 1987 Le Mans. This water / air example has been extensively rebuilt and is fully restored in the KENWOOD livery and race prepped with only two hours of testing.
http://www.fantasyju....com:auto:FJ786