65 replies to this topic

[Ghostrider]

From F1-live.com:
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The OrangeArrows Formula One outfit announced today that together with team driver Heinz-Harald Frentzen, they have agreed to bring their contractual relationship to an end due to the fact that the future at the Leafield squad is so uncertain.

"I'd like to thank the team for the 12 races I have had with them," Heinz-Harald said. “The team definitely has real potential so I hope they can sort their problems out and realise their goals. I wish every one of them all the best for the future".

At this stage it is unclear as to the German driver's future, however there have been reports that former team Sauber are interested in re-hiring his services. As for who will take the German drivers place to partner Enrique Bernoldi from the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards will be announced in due course.

"Heinz told us that due to the uncertainty at Arrows, he wished to stand down and we did not want to stand in his way,” added Tom Walkinshaw. “I'd like to wish him all the best and thank him for the hard work he put in at Arrows."

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I wonder if that Sauber rumour is actually true? Why would Fretzen else want to walk away from Arrows?

[Gemini]

Whatever happens to HHF it happens either week before German GP (2001) or week after (2002)..;)

[Viktor]

Intresting, http://www.arrowsf1....icle.php?id=953! I wonther who will replace him at Arrows, Jos??
Maybe the F3000 points leader, he tested for Arrows before France.
I still dont beleve the he will replace Massa at Sauber this year, maybe next.

/Viktor

[Peter Perfect]

If HHF is jumping now is he stepping straight into a race seat? (i.e. the three week break would be long enough for a seat fitting and a getting to know the team session)

And who's going to get the Arrows ride? (assuming they last until the next GP) Maybe Yoong and HHF to do a swap? Arrows need the money and Minardi need the performance.(although I can't see PS agreeing to any dealings with TW)

[Pieter]

Having seen the headlines at DSF (Deutsche Sport Fernsehen (spelling)) yesterday evening, and their website now, I would be surprised if we saw Frentzen in a Toyota next year.

link to DSF (in german) http://www.sport1.de...yota_20mel.html

[Breadmaster]

I don't think he can step into any other race seat other than minardi.......but ........noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that would be a mistake harry.

[Schuting Star]

I can't say I'm surprised he's gone, it must have been tough being affectively told not to qualify a car. I agree with Peter Perfect's suggestion; he must be sure of another race seat.

[maclaren]

There is place for Jos Verstappen

[Garagiste]

Likewise, I can't see him leaving without another ride lined up.
Very rough on Massa if he's been elbowed - OK he's had his lairy moments but he's been pretty good for a rookie overall.
Who else could it be? Surely not Minardi, and I can't imagine he's pally enough with EJ again for it to be Sato.
Championship may have been a surprise free zone this year, but the sideshows have been incredible!

[Tomecek]

Just question: why you think Jos Verstappen is so good?

btw: my opinion is that Heinz would join another team in Hungarian Grand Prix. Reason for that is very simple. Why he would go out of Arrows if he has at least possibility to drive the F1 car? Hmm?

[karlth]

The plot thickens:

Frentzen hints at Jordan move
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/2156289.stm

[Hakk]

It's obvious. Frenzen is going to Jordan to replace Takuma Sato. Jordan's attempt to get Frenzen to drive in magny course to replace injured Fisichella already showed that HH and Eddie doesn't have that much anger between them anymore. Sato has done a lousy job this year and Eddie has no reason to keep him anymore since Jordan and Honda will part after this year anyway and Jordan is going to team up with Ford.

So Frenzen is going to race for Jordan and Arrows is going to take Verstappen back.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Tomecek
Just question: why you think Jos Verstappen is so good?

It would be rough to see Jos making his 2nd comeback to this Leafield based team

[Frans]

his 2nd comeback

hahaaaaa, 3th comeback if he would go... (Tom wants to get rid of some law suits, hasn't payed Jos for the 2000 season his salary yet, and 2001 also... so ... well. .... )

Only a big fat lie can get him there, and ya know F1.... nothing is what it seems...

[Schuting Star]

Originally posted by karlth
The plot thickens:

Frentzen hints at Jordan move
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/2156289.stm

I'm amazed, why on earth would he go back to Jordan after how they treated him?

[karlth]

Originally posted by Schuting Star

I'm amazed, why on earth would he go back to Jordan after how they treated him?

I don't think things are very bad between Frentzen and Jordan. I think Eddie once said they had never really argued.

[Brian O Flaherty]

well they both had the team's best interests at heart when they split before. Just a difference of opinion on how the car design should go. Jordan have had it rough since the departure of Harry. Maybe they want him back and are prepared to say something close to "You were right". I telly you Fisi and Harry are a helluva strong line-up. It's like having 2 number one drivers Wait a minute !! It IS having 2 number one drivers

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
well they both had the team's best interests at heart when they split before. Just a difference of opinion on how the car design should go. Jordan have had it rough since the departure of Harry. Maybe they want him back and are prepared to say something close to "You were right". I telly you Fisi and Harry are a helluva strong line-up. It's like having 2 number one drivers Wait a minute !! It IS having 2 number one drivers

Is it Fretzen or Irvine to Jordan? Very difficult to say. I would love to see HHF back at Jordan, but if Irvine bring increased sponsoring from B&H then he might be best for the moment. I am glad that Fretzen is so highly regarded and that we will continue to see him in F1 for some further years.

GO HHF!

[Schuting Star]

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
I telly you Fisi and Harry are a helluva strong line-up. It's like having 2 number one drivers Wait a minute !! It IS having 2 number one drivers

If it happens I'll be interested to see how they go against each other as I've never rated HHF that highly. I'm ready to be proved wrong.

[nagi]

I like H2F a lot, but what is he thinking going back to jordan.
It's like commiting suicide ( i would never work for the guy that fired me with a fax)

[Mosquito]

Originally posted by maclaren
There is place for Jos Verstappen

He would be hopping mad to do that. Besides the fact that his drive would probably only cost him big sponsor money to be thrown in the endless dark pit aka Arrows, it wouldn't do his law suit any good as well.

Good thing for HHF to get out. I don't think staying in that snake pit any longer would have done him any good, the beginning of the season he proved that he can still match the midfield drivers, so he's still in the running for a 2003 seat.

[Zawed]

My,my my. How much the world has changed in a year...It was almost exactly a year ago that HHF was out on his ear at Jordan... Anyway, I truly hope it works out for him, whther it's Sauber Jordan or another team.

[Daniel Lester]

Walking away means he has a better offer in place for Hungary so we can rule out Minardi, Jaguar and Toyota based on recent form. McLaren, Ferrari and Williams are stable as is BAR and Renault (all teams have pretty much decided on next years combo's). That leaves Sauber or Jordan where Sato and Massa are accident prone, Sauber are trying to knock Renualt of for 4th and recently used "team orders" to help Heidfeld, not a big vote of confidence for Massa. Peter Sauber knows HHF well and HHF did a good job there before. Jordan are trying to stay ahead of BAR and beat Sauber, while trying to firm up an engine and sponsors. Sato's just getting the hang of F1 but doesn't look close to getting points and they need all they can get and Frentzen can deliver them if the cars alright, the only problem is the law suit and the fact Eddie sacked him as he wasn't considered the future of the team.

I reckon it's Sauber, Heidfeld and HHF for 03. Largely thanks to HHF and Eddies past and Sauber's comment about getting an experienced driver for next season.

With Yoong and Massa left on the sidelines (Massa to be signed as Saubers test driver), theres two spot's to be had. Both will go to untried drivers from F3000, Jos may get the Minardi drive but not the Arrows again it'll come down to past clashes.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by nagi
( i would never work for the guy that fired me with a fax)

Maybe Eddie said "Oh, sent it to the wrong number"

I'd find it refreshing that two people could swallow their pride and settle their differences in the interest of getting the best for both parties. Too much emphasis put on vendetta's and grudge's IMHO.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


Is it Fretzen or Irvine to Jordan? Very difficult to say. I would love to see HHF back at Jordan, but if Irvine bring increased sponsoring from B&H then he might be best for the moment. I am glad that Fretzen is so highly regarded and that we will continue to see him in F1 for some further years.

GO HHF!

When Eddie Irvine was at his peak I didn't rate him. Now he's well past it and I think for a respectable team like Jordan it would be terrible to have to hire a make-weight like him even for sponsorship money.

He would be nowhere near HHF in the same car.

I hope money is the only reason they'd ever consider taking Irvine back otherwise my estimation of EJ's driver judgement would go down. And it would have to be loads of money !!

Eddie should retire peacefully, and continue his favourite hobby of terrorising the Dublin locals in his Ferrari.

[philhitchings]

As much as I would be dissapointed to see it I wonder if HHF is going anywhere. He may have decided enough is enough. I don't see him as a rat leaving a sinking ship BTW, but his decision will do little good for the Arrows team, unless TWR is going to field one car and use HHF salry to pay for the engine?

Jordan would be a surprise considering he (HHF) is still undertaking legal procedings against Jordan F1. A big legal minefield that would surely take more than 3 weeks to sort out.

As for Sato well until the engine deal for next year is sorted out I would still see him staying in the Jordan seat.

Sauber is definately an option as it is no secret that Peter Sauber is not greatly impressed with crasha massa (good entertainement for the rest of us though )

Irvine I don't believe will jump ship until the end of the season (still you never know).

The Minardi buy out could have prompted HHF to consider replacing Yoong. HHF may be enough of a draw to placate the Malaysian backers, after all they can't be too impressed at their own star failing to be within 107% race after race.

So my guess on all this

HHF retires, goes to Sauber or Minardi

Eddie Irvine stays at Jaguar till end of season

Sato stays at Jordan till engine deal confirmed

Yoong possibly out to take a long holiday or prepare for testing role in 2003



so says tha man who predicted Jenson Button would replace DC at Mclaren

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Daniel Lester
Walking away means he has a better offer in place for Hungary so we can rule out Minardi, Jaguar and Toyota based on recent form. McLaren, Ferrari and Williams are stable as is BAR and Renault (all teams have pretty much decided on next years combo's). That leaves Sauber or Jordan where Sato and Massa are accident prone, Sauber are trying to knock Renualt of for 4th and recently used "team orders" to help Heidfeld, not a big vote of confidence for Massa. Peter Sauber knows HHF well and HHF did a good job there before. Jordan are trying to stay ahead of BAR and beat Sauber, while trying to firm up an engine and sponsors. Sato's just getting the hang of F1 but doesn't look close to getting points and they need all they can get and Frentzen can deliver them if the cars alright, the only problem is the law suit and the fact Eddie sacked him as he wasn't considered the future of the team.

I reckon it's Sauber, Heidfeld and HHF for 03. Largely thanks to HHF and Eddies past and Sauber's comment about getting an experienced driver for next season.

With Yoong and Massa left on the sidelines (Massa to be signed as Saubers test driver), theres two spot's to be had. Both will go to untried drivers from F3000, Jos may get the Minardi drive but not the Arrows again it'll come down to past clashes.

Sound logic indeed

Only thing I would disagree with is that "Jos may get the Minardi drive". Whether Minardi offer it to him or not (they may very well do that) I don't think even Jos is that desperate to get back to F1 in a hopeless back-marker. I'd say Minardi may go with whoever is dumped out of a team further up the grid (would that person drop down to Minardi though ??) and then an F3000'er.

Most likely Minardi will want to keep trying to find the next big thing in the lower Formulae.

If the FIA pass this law whereby F3000 is a compulsory formula for future F1 drivers then F3000 is a pretty firm bet

[A3]

verstappen.nl:

Rothengatter:

"If Arrows want Jos back, the ball is in their court now. We're always open for talks and want to discuss any opertunity. But by only letting Jos drive, the legal problems with Arrows would be far from solved."

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
When Eddie Irvine was at his peak I didn't rate him. Now he's well past it and I think for a respectable team like Jordan it would be terrible to have to hire a make-weight like him even for sponsorship money.

He would be nowhere near HHF in the same car.

I hope money is the only reason they'd ever consider taking Irvine back otherwise my estimation of EJ's driver judgement would go down. And it would have to be loads of money !!

Eddie should retire peacefully, and continue his favourite hobby of terrorising the Dublin locals in his Ferrari.

Remember that EJ was almost WDC in 99, so don't underestimate him. With the "new" Jaguar spec, he has the last two races comprehesively outqualified de la Rosa, so he can still race. But as you, I question his motivation, I also wonder if he still always tries as hard as he should.

[philhitchings]

Originally posted by A3

[/B]

Substitue Jos for Frenzen and Arrows for Jordan and you have similar potential

[A3]

I don't really want to see Jos working with Walkinshaw again, but I've always wondered how Jos would do in the A23. After all, that car was basicly designed around him.


Something else, I wonder if Tom still thinks he made the right decision in dumping Jos. Jos proved that he can race and got his points too, for less money.

[A3]

Frentzen on his website:

I stop driving for Arrows
(08/02) OrangeArrows and I have announced today that we have agreed to bring our contractual relationship to an end.

Due to the unfortunate difficulties they face, I thought it would be best to step back so that we may both focus on our respective futures. I would like to thank the entire team for the 12 races I did for them and wish them all the very best for the future. They have real potential and I hope they are able to reach their goals.

I am in the process of sorting out my future in Formula 1 as I am still in love with the sport and full of enthusiasm. I will let you know my future plans as soon as I can.

[howardt]

Only 2 reasons why HHF would want to step down :

1) He has another race seat lined up for the next GP
2) He knows that Arrows won't make another GP start

Either is possible.

[Frans]

Arrows won't be gone... they will be taken over, diffrent boss, diffrent everything.

Tom will have to leave. Or hell what, does this man even WANNA stay??

[Daveofoz]

If EJ is trying to get his old 1999 (championship contending ;) ) team back together, the next thing after chucking out a (fairly new) layer of management might be to bring back the driver who has won the team half it's poles (Europe GP 99) and two thirds of its wins - France 99 and Monza 99 (reasonably convincingly).

I think Deutche Post would be happy, and if it was HHF's side preventing him from racing in France then the team - and EJ - must feel ok about his return.

[mikedeering]

OK, where will HHF end up next?

If I was a team manager I would give the German carpet designer a wide berth.

Think about it:

The guy joins Williams at the end of 1996 - Williams are THE team in F1. They had won 4 WCCs out of 5 - real top team. HHF joins, and they go into decline - in 1998 they failed to win a race for the first time in 10 years. Such was the curse of Frentzen that they failed to win again until 2001, despite their successful pedigree.

HHF then turns up at Jordan - and after lulling EJ into giving him a long-term contract through some good displays in 1999, his curse strikes again, and ever since Jordan have had a real problem with finishing races. They seemed to be finally getting over this with a couple of points finishes for Fisichella, but then HHF strikes again - the mere possibility of him returning to Jordan has resulted in a poor performance at Hockenheim. And which team apart from Arrows and Minardi is now said to be financial trouble - yup its Jordan, all thanks to HHF's contract.

As for Prost and Arrows - don't get me started. HHF has already killed off the dreams of a 4xWDC, he has now done the same to good old "honest" Tom Walkinshaw, and then jumped ship at the last moment.

HHF - employ him at your peril...

[KinetiK]

I think I'm supposed to laugh....

[mslac]

Was there ever a lawsuit between HHF and Jordan?

If so was it settled?

If not, could this be a settlement for a tight-on-cash Jordan?

[RaggedEdge]

With a touch of nostalgia, I thought of HHF in Sauber - that was one team he helped go forward. I wonder if Peter Sauber is fond of Heinz-Harald?

[arthurive]

Originally Posted by Brian O'Flaherty: "Most likely Minardi will want to keep trying to find the next big thing in the lower Formulae"

Yes, I agree. I would think it will be Giorgio Pantano in a Minardi next year.
He drives for Coloni in F3000 and Coloni recently entered into a "operational partnership"
with Minardi's F3000 team. Also, Pantano has been promised a Minardi test in September.
Thirdly, if Giancarlo Minardi still has any influence over driver decisions, he'd certainly like
to get the "next Italian hopeful"

[Breadmaster]

what can i say but

[janusa]

Originally posted by maclaren
There is place for Jos Verstappen

Why would Jos take a TWR Seat? I mean I know Jos wants to race. But come on TWR fired him

JanUsa

[Crazy Canuck]

Okay how about this scenario:

Herta goes to Arrows for the rest of the season.

Frentzen goes to Sauber for the remainder of the season.

Massa goes to Minardi for the remainder of the season.


CC

[Roadrunner]

Originally posted by Crazy Canuck
Okay how about this scenario:



Frentzen goes to Sauber for the remainder of the season.




CC

It would be difficult Frentzen goes for the remainder of the season to Sauber,he's to tall!!
Some time ago Jos fitted a seat and was to tall,Frentzen is even a bit taller as Jos .

[Pets22]

ogly posted by CC
Herta goes to Arrows for the rest of the season.

Does anybody really think that we'll see Herta in an F1 race this year or next? If he couldn't keep his CART seat - why would an F1 team even look at him (financial considerations aside).... but then again financial considerations are never aside. I WITHDRAW MY POST.

[Crazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Pets22
ogly posted by CC
Herta goes to Arrows for the rest of the season.

Does anybody really think that we'll see Herta in an F1 race this year or next? If he couldn't keep his CART seat - why would an F1 team even look at him (financial considerations aside).... but then again financial considerations are never aside. I WITHDRAW MY POST.

No, I don't really think Herta will make it to F1 - honestly, I think Herta could be IRL champ at best.

I'm just adding fuel to the rumours!

CC

[A3]

I don't think any team would give a driver without sufficient F1 experience a seat in the middle of the season. Especially Arrows, as they don't even have money to test.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Roadrunner


It would be difficult Frentzen goes for the remainder of the season to Sauber,he's to tall!!
Some time ago Jos fitted a seat and was to tall,Frentzen is even a bit taller as Jos .

That is a very good point actually. I hadn't thought of that. Excellent observation.

[Ross Stonefeld]

This will be really interesting. You wouldnt leave mid-season unless you had a reason to. Ie something better. Unless he is replacing Sato. But then again why ditch Sato? he's only gonna get better.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Frans
hahaaaaa, 3th comeback if he would go...

You mean F1 comebacks? I meant Arrows comebacks.

Didn't he drive half of 94 for Benetton, 95 Simtek or something, 96 Arrows, 97 Tyrrell, 98 half season for Stewart, 00 Arrows, 01 Arrows.

Oho, I didn't realize JV has driven so much already