48 replies to this topic

[Bluehair]

I've been wondering for many years now- just how do you properly pronounce the name of certain corners such as Eau Rouge, Stowe, and Rivage? Please feel free to throw in any others that come to mind as well.

[Marlowe]

I'm not very good with the pronunciation key in the dictionary but let me give it a try.

Eau Rouge:

"Eau" is pronounce like "Oh" in english.

In "Rouge", the "g" is very soft making "zh" sound and the "e" is silent. The "ou" sound like a double "o" or a long "o" as in the word "loot" or "boot".

It should be pronounced: "Oh Roozh"


Stowe:

Like the above the "e" is silent. It's like reading "Tow" or "Toe" with an and "s" infront. The letter "o" would sound very similar to the way the letter "o" is pronounced in words, "organ" "broke", "coke", and "low".

It should be pronounced: Stow, Stoe or Stoh


Rivage:

The "g" and "e" is exactly as "Rouge". The "Ri" will sound like "Ree" as in the world "Real".

It should be pronounced: Reevaazh


I hope that helps.

[Booster]

Originally posted by Marlowe
I'm not very good with the pronunciation key in the dictionary but let me give it a try.

Eau Rouge:

"Eau" is pronounce like "Oh" in english.

In "Rouge", the "g" is very soft making "zh" sound and the "e" is silent. The "ou" sound like a double "o" or a long "o" as in the word "loot" or "boot".

It should be pronounced: "Oh Roozh"


Stowe:

Like the above the "e" is silent. It's like reading "Tow" or "Toe" with an and "s" infront. The letter "o" would sound very similar to the way the letter "o" is pronounced in words, "organ" "broke", "coke", and "low".

It should be pronounced: Stow, Stoe or Stoh


Rivage:

The "g" and "e" is exactly as "Rouge". The "Ri" will sound like "Ree" as in the world "Real".

It should be pronounced: Reevaazh


I hope that helps.

If I may throw in my help as a complement to yours...

Your explaination is quite good but I fail to understand your "zh" sound in "ROUGE "and RIVAGE . So I thought of another way of explaining it and came up with this :

The word age in English. Same "ge" as in Rouge and Rivage. Cairfull about that Rivage and age. Although they have the same spelling, the A in French is NOT pronounced like " hay " or "hey" but rather like Ah !

So "rivage" would be pronounced like this : Ree-vah-ge

My mother tongue is French by the way. Hope this helps a bit.

Booster

[Enkei]

La Source = La Sewers
Eau Rouge = ow Roozjh
Rivage = Rivaazjh
Les Combs = Le Combs
Pouhon = Foohon
Blanchimont = blanshemon
Fagnes = Fanjés

[tania_walesuk]

Here my pronunciation spin then slightly off...umm Martin Brundle when he likes what he sees watching Kimi Raikkonen he pronounces it Rakkinen like Hakkinen when he's off the road its Rake-onen as in a Rake for the sand and when he's doing nothing out of the ordinary its the correct pronounciation of Ry-cone-en...listen out next time at Hungary hehe

[nigel red5]

Not only that...... Half the time we get "Keemee" (wrong), and "Kimee" (correct)

Anyway, none of us are any better. The whole world (apart from Germany & prob Austria) calls the world champion Michael Schumacher, when it should really be pronounced "Mee-kayl Schumacher"

[Zmeej]

Booster

For a Slav (Ukrainian) such as myself, the "zh" combination is a common example from an English transliteration system.

French transliteration systems use the "j" to denote the sound.

Interestingly, in some cases the English system uses consonantal combinations not normally encountered in its standard orthography (e.g. the "zh" combination doesn't appear otherwise) and is ambivalent about drawing on its repertoire of diphthongs (combinations of vowels), while French adheres more closely to its "native" linguistic playlist.

e.g.

in English transliteration:
Pliushch, Zhukovsky
in French:
Pliouchtch, Joukovsky

[Julius]

Originally posted by Bluehair
I've been wondering for many years now- just how do you properly pronounce the name of certain corners such as Eau Rouge, Stowe, and Rivage? Please feel free to throw in any others that come to mind as well.

Since you are an American, let's try some pronunciation referents with which you may be familiar.

"Eau" is pronounced a lot like "Yo", as in "Yo dude..." except the "Y" is not stongly accented. So, try to pronounce "Eau" as "Yo" while using as little "Y" as possible.


"Rouge" is pronounced just like it is in that little Louisianna town called "Baton Rouge" ("Baton Rouge" means "red stick" and is in reference to a survey marker used by the original French Surveyers)

[joachimvanwing]

The enlgish got something completely wrong.

What they English think is called 'Eau Rouge' is in fact the 'Radillion'. The intire corner itself is called Radillion. The lowest point of the corner, (where the Radillion starts), is where a little river goes underneeth the track. This little river is called Eau Rouge (red water). Sooooooo, Eau Rouge is only a 10m part of the most challanging corner in F1, the Radillion.

Murray Walker said it often. MW, "I can't pronounce the word =Raddelljonne= so to keep things easy, We'll call it 'O ruge'."

[joachimvanwing]

Originally posted by Enkei
La Source = La Sewers
Eau Rouge = ow Roozjh
Rivage = Rivaazjh
Les Combs = Le Combs
Pouhon = Foohon
Blanchimont = blanshemon
Fagnes = Fanjés

La surce
O ruge
rivage
Les Combes = Lè Komb
Poohon
blaunshimon
Fanje

[RJL]

Hmmm, I've always wondered how you get "Sharday" from "Sade".

[Zmeej]

Me too
and how it is that you get shugar from sugar...

Joachim

FYI it's pronounced Ra-dee-yong, the "ng" being an approximation of the nasal French "on" ending, so not rhyming with "bong," but "yolk" said with a twang (see below).

Julius

Yer efforts are valiant, but the "o" in "Yo" (as in Mama), is long, while the Eau dipthong in French is a middle-length sound. It would be more like the "o" in "yolk."

[Foxbat]

Zmeej

You should see russian (or ukranian) to dutch transliteration, taking cues from both german and english styles it is a total mess. The journo's reinforce the general chaos by using older lexicons (eg Soechoj for Sukhoi) and by randomly mixing translation and transliteration (the hailstorm weapon that shoots grad rockets, or the Soechoi Su-27).

Originally posted by Enkei
La Source = La Sewers

OT:
kutvliegje = cut-vly-g-u

[TT6]

Originally posted by Booster


So "rivage" would be pronounced like this : Ree-vah-ge

My mother tongue is French by the way. Hope this helps a bit.

Booster

Could you please make mp3's of the classic corners in french...

[palmas]

You're all tranlating sounds to words, forgetting the the words you're using sound different in each language.
I'm shure you're all correct, (and sound correct for your own fellow-citizen)

[Enkei]

Originally posted by Foxbat
Zmeej

You should see russian (or ukranian) to dutch transliteration, taking cues from both german and english styles it is a total mess. The journo's reinforce the general chaos by using older lexicons (eg Soechoj for Sukhoi) and by randomly mixing translation and transliteration (the hailstorm weapon that shoots grad rockets, or the Soechoi Su-27).





OT:
kutvliegje = cut-vly-g-u

[mikedeering]

OT I was looking at a road map of Francorchamps (the town - not just the circuit!) and it lists Eau Rouge as La Source! Very confusing. Also, looking at the road, it seems it is not possible to drive thru the Eau Rouge/Radillion complex - the main road veers out to the left and then has a tight right hander back onto the circuit - is this correct? Is Radillion not open to the public?

Getting back to pronounciation - for years Murray called Senna "Ayrton" - pronounced ER-TON. Then starting at Brazil 94 he referred to him (after 10 years!) as A-ER-TON. Why?

[BRG]

Originally posted by joachimvanwing
What they English think is called 'Eau Rouge' is in fact the 'Radillion'.

Why pick on the English? Everyone worldwide knows it as Eau Rouge - and incidentally if you look at the circuit's own website at http://www.spa-franc.../en/index2.html , even they call it "Radillon Eau Rouge".

[Zmeej]

Foxbat

the hailstorm weapon that shoots grad rockets

Brilliant!
At first I didn't get it (I've got a sense of humour, but I'm slow), and was wondering what the hell a "grad rocket" was... a step up from an undergrad rocket???

(For those not in the know, "grad" is hail in Russian.)

Dutch sounds fun! Since Dutch has a thoroughly funky bunch of dipthongs and consonant combos, I can only imagine what it must look like when transliterating.

Was thinking of bringing in the German transliteration system to REALLY open a can of worms, but then decided against it (Tzk, tzk, said the scholars...).

The Teutons (and the Dutch, by extension) are more helpful and precise in one respect: the use of "j" to denote something called "iotation" (as in the initial sound in "yolk"). This looks weird to native English speakers (to the obdurate North American variety in particular), but it helps to clear up confusion once you get used to it.

The Strict Library of Congress English transliteration system uses "i" for iotation, while looser (known as "modified") systems use "y," since it doesn't look as jarring as, f'rinstance, beginning a word with an "i." This produces interesting collisions of vowels that iotate, and vowels that don't.

However, for a complete divorce from the English thought-process in rendering sound by Latin alphabet consonants and vowels, check out Hungarian! They have the most fun...;)

BTW, what does "kutvliegje" mean?

Palmas

That's what happens when a new language becomes a lingua franca.
English is particularly hilarious to use because its internal systems of sound rendering are a veritable incarnation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

[BRG]

Originally posted by mikedeering
Also, looking at the road, it seems it is not possible to drive thru the Eau Rouge/Radillion complex - the main road veers out to the left and then has a tight right hander back onto the circuit - is this correct? Is Radillion not open to the public?

The gradient at Eau Rouge (or Radillon : ) is extremely steep for a normal main road. So there is indeed a dogleg to the left to make the climb easier. The last time I was there (some years ago), there were some sketchy barriers across the race track which I just drove around and up through Radillon (or Eau Rouge ). It is STEEP!

[Zmeej]

Is there skiing in the offseason, to complement the "skating" during the season?;)

[wawawa]

I have a couple of questions with Monaco corners. How do you pronounce Loews (I'm guessing "lows") and Anthony Noghes (I'm not guessing )? Thanks

[X-ray]

Wouldn't it be better with somebody recording and posting a soundbite with all the correct pronunciations?

[Enkei]

Originally posted by Zmeej
BTW, what does "kutvliegje" mean?

I'm afraid I can't explain because of the spellcheck here

[The First MH]

Eau Rouge = Oh sh*t, hang on to your drawers

[Zmeej]

Enkei

I'm still guessing.

Don't worry about the spellcheck use an asterisk, as in:
"He's a little [additional descriptive adjective] pr*ck."

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[joachimvanwing]

Originally posted by mikedeering
Also, looking at the road, it seems it is not possible to drive thru the Eau Rouge/Radillion complex - the main road veers out to the left and then has a tight right hander back onto the circuit - is this correct? Is Radillion not open to the public?

On weekdays that part is a one-way-road, uphill.

[wawawa]

Originally posted by wawawa
I have a couple of questions with Monaco corners. How do you pronounce Loews (I'm guessing "lows") and Anthony Noghes (I'm not guessing )? Thanks

Anyone?

[Booster]

Originally posted by wawawa

Anyone?

Loews = lows

Noghes = Nodges --> nod-gz ( IMHO )

[DOHC]

Although I often see the spelling "Radillon" I believe that the correct spelling is "Raidillon" which is of course also pronounced differently.

http://www.spa-franc.../en/index2.html

[Booster]

Originally posted by DOHC
Although I often see the spelling "Radillon" I believe that the correct spelling is "Raidillon" which is of course also pronounced differently.

http://www.spa-franc.../en/index2.html

LOL... you are so right ! I often see it spelled that way too and I know it's wrong. "Raidillon" is a french word that comes from the word " Raide " which you could translate to abrupt. A "raidillon" is a part of a path or road that is a steep climb and short in distance.

Cheers !



EDIT : Please note that the word "raide" doesn't only mean abrupt. It can also mean strong, rigid, hard depending on the context. Furthermore, the meanings I just gave you are regional so other French speaking countries may or may not use it in such way.

[wawawa]

Originally posted by Booster
EDIT : Please note that the word "raide" doesn't only mean abrupt. It can also mean strong, rigid, hard depending on the context. Furthermore, the meanings I just gave you are regional so other French speaking countries may or may not use it in such way.

Relax, we're not out to sue you ;)

[RSNS]

Originally posted by Enkei
La Source = La Sewers
Eau Rouge = ow Roozjh
Rivage = Rivaazjh
Les Combs = Le Combs
Pouhon = Foohon
Blanchimont = blanshemon
Fagnes = Fanjés

Les Fagnes is not pronounced Fanjé at all. It is Fáñ, as in Spanish ‘muñeca’; perhaps slightly similar to ‘ng’ in German ‘Inge’, that is to say a single sound, a wet n.

[RSNS]

Originally posted by mikedeering
OT
Getting back to pronounciation - for years Murray called Senna "Ayrton" - pronounced ER-TON. Then starting at Brazil 94 he referred to him (after 10 years!) as A-ER-TON. Why?

The proper pronunciation is A-yr’-ton; the strong syllable is YR. A as in dArk, YR as a dried up bEer, an TON as in TON. It might be spelled Aÿrton.

[Zmeej]

Wawawa

The French don't sue, that's Anglo and U.S. behaviour.

The French report you to the Academie Francaise (speaking of which, pardon my lack of cedille, I don't know how to use diacriticals in Windows; also: pardon my mispelling of Raidillon in an earlier post ;) ).

[wawawa]

Originally posted by Zmeej
The French don't sue

Enchanté! Thanks for the tip ;)

[kodandaram]

that is really funny - even more funny is the pronunciation of our commentators on Ten Sports - I suppose all Indians here would have seen the F1 broadcast on ten sports at least once.
The sommentators are Rick Houghton ( a dick - he doesn't know who's who - in fact he referred to Bernie as a " towering 5"3" personality while in fact the person being shown was a 6 feeet tall williams man)

The other guy is Sanjay Sharma - an asshole thru and thru ..... he is the head of motorsport of JKtyres - but he has nothing in his head - just a heap of **** .....he seems to be a big fan of Schumacher - and often makes controversial comments on air ........ one day someone will sue him ...

Some of the odd pronunciaitons we get on star sports and ten sports are -

Jaks Veelnuv for JV - really you shouldn't pronounce that 's' and it is NOT Vee lnuv
Schumaacher for Schumacher - with a 'macher' pronounced - as "maaker"
Ralff - a very noticable stress of the ending "f"
and this is really funny Nick Heidfeild for Heidfeld .....
they pornounce Barrichello as Barri-tchello - you know like the "tch" in catch or match .

Takuma Sato is pronounced as Seto -
and lots more ...............

[man from martinlaakso]

When you are pronouncing Finnish names like Häkkinen or Räikkönen, there are few things to remeber. One is, that every character should be pronounced, so don't leave the first h out like the Spanish do, and let the both k's to be heard not separately but so that the sum is a very hard and long k.

The Finnish ä should be pronounced like a is pronounced in the words cat, rat and taxi.

The Finnish ö should be pronounced like i is pronounced in the words dirty and thirty or like o in the word worst.

[Ed Kooij]

Last time I was at Spa (last October) it was not possible to drive through Eau Rouge. After driving from Stavelot to the start/finish line, I was forced to go straight at La Source. There is a new road from just outside La Source to the Les Combs combination (also closed). The new road has some nice corners too, but i was really disappointed that Eau Rouge is no longer part of the public road...

[DOHC]

Although I often see the spelling "Les Combs" I believe that the correct spelling is "Les Combes" which is of course also pronounced differently.

http://www.spa-franc.../en/index2.html

[Breadmaster]

I also understand there is confusion over the pronouciation of British F3 driver Rob Nguyan....this is not pronounced N-guy-an but N-Wing..........

every commentator gets it wrong......

[DOHC]

---------------------

La Source = La Sewers
Eau Rouge = ow Roozjh
Rivage = Rivaazjh
Les Combs = Le Combs
Pouhon = Foohon
Blanchimont = blanshemon
Fagnes = Fanjés

---------------------

La surce
O ruge
rivage
Les Combes = Lè Komb
Poohon
blaunshimon
Fanje

---------------------

are we watching evolution at work?

La soorce
Awe roosh
Reevaash
Lè kawmb
Poo-hong
Blawnshemong
Raddiyong
Funy[e]

Hmm, it seems to me that English phonems aren't the best to describe French pronunciation.

[Zmeej]

DOHC

You got THAT right, brother!

Wawawa
De rien

Kodandarm

You're on to something. This thread would get hilarious very quickly with a catalogue of mispronunctiations, and who committed them. Unfortunately no amusing instances come to mind.

The Canadian Brian Williams (a CBC windbag, not stupid, but definitely somebody you'd run from if you saw him in person) drove me nuts when he talked about "John Alaysay," but I wasn't laughing.

I'm confused about something you wrote:

Jaks Veelnuv for JV - really you shouldn't pronounce that 's' and it
is NOT Vee lnuv

What's the distinction you're making?

Also, perhaps this is pedantic and even regional (German speakers please correct me), but methought the "ch" in "Schumacher" should be pronounced as in the Scottish "loch," n'est-ce pas?

In parting, I'd like to commend you for your stellarly Freudian spelling mistake: "pornunciation."

Divinely inspired!

[Ed Kooij]

Originally posted by DOHC
Although I often see the spelling "Les Combs" I believe that the correct spelling is "Les Combes" which is of course also pronounced differently.

My bad - it should indeed be Les Combes although as far as my knowledge of French goes, this should not affect pronounciation: both "combs" and "combes" would be something like "combuh", with the accent on "com" and quiet "buh" (as in the English word for bus, without an s).
Even if it were only one corner, and the name would be singular (Le Combe), it would still be pronounced the same! Only by the difference in pronounciation of "Le" (luh - like lust without st) and "Les" (leh - like less, without s) could a Frenchman know the difference between singular and plural!

Seems my High School French was good for something after all!

[kodandaram]

I'm confused about something you wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jaks Veelnuv for JV - really you shouldn't pronounce that 's' and it
is NOT Vee lnuv
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What's the distinction you're making?



Well I mean to say that his name is to be pronounced as Jack (or even Shak if ya want to be accurate) Will - eh - nuv ........ and not as Jaks veel - nuv ........

The commentator pronounces it as Jacks - and he stresses on the 's' at the end . And he says "veelnuv " - again stressing on the 'eel' - like when pronouce the fish eel ........ and the last 3 letters 'nuv' are pronounced as veelnu

[Zmeej]

Kodandarm

You're right about the "s" in the given name being silent, and I guess to be strickly correct one should pronounce the surname with the accent on the second syllable (Mister Murray loved to "VEAL-nuv" (I prefer that spelling, since I love the meat ;)).

You're also right that the "ee" of the French "i" in the surname is punchier, and Anglos do like to give it an odd "eeeeeyuh" twang before getting to the "l."

However, "neuve" is pronounced:
n + the German "oe" or "o" with umlaut + "v" + a slight "uh" at the end (particularly if you wanna come off as Parisian ).

The "v" is most definitely not silent.

Who'da thunk that such arrant pedantry could be so much fun?

[DOHC]

Ok, I'll give it a try.... Shucks wheel nuff ;)

[Marlowe]

How does one pronounce "Coughlan"? As in Mike Coughlan.

Is it:

a) Co-lan?

b) Coff-lan?

c) Cock-lan?

[kodandaram]

How does one pronounce "Coughlan"? As in Mike Coughlan.

Is it:

a) Co-lan?

b) Coff-lan?

c) Cock-lan?

- posted by Marlowe

I prefer -

Cuug - 'lan