56 replies to this topic

[MP4/?]

I have seen a lot of comments about Senna's accident in Imola 94, but what about this accident? I remember the guy driving straight to the wall... What happened there? There is any reports of the accident? And buy the way what about Gonzalo Rodriguez's Accident is Laguna Seca?

[Hurricane]

There are a lot of video clips and also a tribute set up for Greg here at this link. There are also some drivers reactions.
http://www.tsn.ca/cart/mooreobit.asp

[Chris G.]

GM's was mostly the result of a poorly designed track (infeild area grass, then a strip of concrete, then grass, then wall). IMO.

[Viktor]

Gonzalos accident was pure driver error, he missed his breaking point and went off the trac

Greg's, I dont know, have not hered anything sence the race, I woth guess that the off was due to driver error. He had hurt his hand in the pitlane that morning. But as Chris G say, the result of the off was worsend by the poor track layout and infield layout.

/Viktor

[RiverRunner]

Unfortunately I was present at both those events.
In Greg's case I can't say it was either of the reasons you listed,simply that he was on the high part of the track and lost grip in the rear,once that happened he was just a passenger.Amazingly enough,Richie Hearn had the identical accident just a few laps prior yet walked away.
As for Gonzalo,he had very few laps at Laguna Seca and I think he just lost his way on the track and/or carried way too much speed into the corkscrew entry.It's actually very weird you bring this up,because his car was in pretty much the same shape as zip code boy's was after his accident this last weekend,very little damage for a fatal accident.Since the Hans/Hutchens Devices entry to MS,I don't think Gonzalos accident today would be a fatality.
One of the saddest things about Greg's death was watching Dario's reaction,I was directly across his from his pit at the end of the last race of the season,one in which he tied Montoya on points.
He got out of the car,waved off everyone around him and sat on the rear tyre with his head in his hands for what seemed like minutes,then slowly gathered up his kit and walked slowly down the pitlane by himself to the winners circle to congratulate Montoya,talking to no one and no one even approaching him.
The loneliness of a race driver never struck me so deeply as it did then.

[MarkWRX]

According to the link, a CART official states that GM brushed the wall at [the exit I would guess] Turn 1, causing a tire failure, leading to his going off at Turn 2.

But as Chris G states, the extremely poor design of the infield section is why he died.

Mark

[confucius]

What exactly was the cause of death for Rodriguez? Was it from head injuries? I didn't get to see the accident very clearly on TV. Did his car land on his head when he flipped, or did he die from the initial impact with the wall he went over?

[John B]

(edit: re Moore's crash)

That's correct from what I've heard. There's a photo which ran in one of the magazines of GM racing on the outside 4-wide going into the first corner moments before the crash.

Several times in the last couple years I've thought of him as Penske rolled up the wins and titles, including the Indys. Remember he was supposed to have the seat that Castro-Neves took over.....Given Moore's skills on the ovals it would have been interesting to see him in the IRL with a Penske

[RiverRunner]

Initial impact.
I used to race drag boats and our sanctioning body rescue crew consisted of many of the guys that were working that corner,his neck snapped badly and the shoulder belts also cut his throat.By the time they got down the hill,he slid by them about 10 feet away,they say he was a goner.Since these guys I knew were all from the sheriff and or fire depts and were all certified paramedics/rescue divers,I take their word on it unequivicably.

[John B]

Confucius, I think it was the original impact, straight on with the wall through the tire barrier which killed him, probably the all too common head whip fracture. The Orlando Sentinel had several pieces about racing safety on their site, which included details of the CART accidents mentioned above. I don't know if they are still posted at this time.

[Viktor]

I have always wonderd way was the race not stopped? I meen a driver had been killed due to a track saifty problem and it could happen again in the same race.

/Viktor

[cheesy poofs]

Re: Rodriguez' fatal accident



CART Statement In Regard
To Rodriguez Accident
Tim Mayer, CART Senior Vice President For Racing Operations,
Today Released The Following Statement:

"CART has participated in the review of the situation surrounding the tragic accident leading to the death of Gonzalo Rodriguez, in cooperation with the Monterey County Coroner's office and the California Highway Patrol, whose offices will be responsible for drawing what conclusions as may be available. The team and its suppliers have been united in their full cooperation with this review process.

"Initial data from the on-board data recorders indicate a large and sustained frontal impact in a manner never before seen in an accident on this corner. Other than frontal damage, the car was largely intact. There was no intrusion into the driver compartment. There were no observable impact marks on the helmet. While no conclusion may be drawn, the mechanical function of the accelerator was intact, upon initial inspection following the accident. All data currently available has been provided to the Coroner's office to aid in its investigation. All video and photographic information has been provided to the investigators.

"No conclusions have been made at this time as to the cause of the accident and such determinations as may be available will be made in due course by the proper authorities.

"CART would like to thank the Monterey County Sheriff's Department, the Monterey County Coroner's Department, the California Highway Patrol, the Staff and Volunteers of the Laguna Seca Raceway and SCRAMP, The Community Hospital of the Monterey Peninsula and all of the organizations and individuals whose sensitivity, expertise and efforts are contributing in this difficult process."

[BARnone]

Gonzalo Rodriquez died of a basilar skull fracture. This same injury killed Dale Earnhardt, Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin and most recently, Blaise Alexander to name but a few. The HANS device may have saved his life.

His family launched a wrongful death and gross negligence suit against CART - don't know how it was settled - but there had never been a similar accident at the corkscrew at Leguna Seca.

BARnone.

[chooch]

Not to dig up dirt but in the interest of clarity: GR was thoughto suffer from a stuck throttle (notice the report above says" while no conclusion can be reached"..), a problem that happened to Moreno a few races later. Greg Moore had an accident with a fan on Sat morning breaking his hand and missed 2nd qualifying. He was allowed to start the race at the back eventho it wasthe last race and GM was switching teams after a 6 lap testrun alone late saturday. On lap 10 in the race he lost it over a bump same as Hearn. Their was a law suit by the Moore family. The tyre problem after touching the wall is nonsense (ie did Hearn do the same thing?) It was a design prob at the track.

[Jdcasas]

All I remember is that they told it wasnt wise for him to drive that race because he had a broken wrist or figner or whatever and had it all strapped up or a cast (my memory is very dodgy : ) Im sure this makes it very uncomfortable to drive at thos G´s that ovals present the drivers with and can make a driver error occur... Do remember that another driver had exactly the same accident on the same corner in the Penske I believe (was it Al Unser Jr?)

[F1Johnny]

That is one of the worst accidents I have ever seen. As it happened, you knew there could be no positive outcome.

[JVRACER]

Everytime I think about about it I get angry and real bummed out.Im always gonna miss that kid ...He drove like the way I feel toward Motor racing ......always quick and full of passion.

[Duck]

What infuriated me about Greg's horrific accident was the layout of grass infield just adjacent to the track surface. I've always felt that the balance of Greg's car was upset during the transition between the two surfaces themselves. Had the runoff area been asphalt, I feel Greg's speed could have been bled-off much more effectively, and safely. The same type of scenario took place at Michigan a year later when Christian Fittipaldi took the "Ride of his Life" when he slid off the track onto the grass. As a speed retardant, grass just doesn't work.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Rodriguez had a basalar skull fracture. Interestingly so did Greg Moore and Ayrton Senna, but in those cases they had other injuries which would have meant the same result even with HANS.

[MP4/?]

The problem with Greg's car it went into the grass, and started to roll over.. Hearn car hitted the wall standing on its four weels. That made a difference. But my question is why they went out is such way? This type of accident spinning inside of an oval are not very common... I always tought that something should have gone with the car... Maybe the tyre explaination is good.

Gonzalo's accident was a driver error... I heard sometime that the gas pedal was misworking.

And who is to blame in Alex Zanardi's accident? The team crew because of the water in the tyres? The Driver? The car? Tagliani? Seams strange to me that after living the pits and spinning the wheels the tyres were still wet....

[KenC]

Originally posted by MP4/?
I have seen a lot of comments about Senna's accident in Imola 94, but what about this accident? I remember the guy driving straight to the wall... What happened there? There is any reports of the accident? And buy the way what about Gonzalo Rodriguez's Accident is Laguna Seca?

As far as I know, there was not a car failure in Greg Moore's accident. Was it driver error? Most probably. I recall looking at the time traps and speed differentials, and Greg's car had the most extreme speed variation between straight speed, 240mph, and corner speed, T2 was measured at about 200mph. A 40mph differential. Most cars had differentials of 15 to 20mph between straights and corners. None were as extreme as Greg's, except Richie Hearn's, and as noted, he too, had an accident.

Presumably, Greg's setup had the least downforce to maximize straight speed, while sacrificing cornering speed/grip. This made him much more vulnerable to turbulence while cornering.

Second, Greg's driving lines on ovals were the most aggressive/risky, taking high lines, where other drivers did not dare run. I believe it was Zanardi who said that Greg finds grip(on a highline) where other drivers do not. T2 at Fontana is a common place for a driver in the marbles to hit the wall hard.

Third, it was Greg who began the "stand on the throttle, opposite lock the steering wheel" to correct a loose oversteer condition on ovals. Before that, drivers had been taught to never correct an oversteer condition on an oval, when the correction could send you into the wall(as Jason Priestly learned this past weekend). Greg broke this basic rule, and had some spectacular corrections that amazed everyone when he first entered CART. Since then, it's become quite common for a driver who is sideways coming out of an oval corner to gun the throttle to keep the car off the wall, requiring a quick recorrection to prevent from shooting off into the infield. I recall Sam Hornish doing this at Indy in 2000, when he spun out, but kept it off the wall. And, Tags did this at Brazil a couple years ago, when he was leading late in the race, creating a huge smoke screen.

Why Greg was not able to recorrect his trajectory this time, I really don't know, except that once he was on the grass, he was a passenger.

Certainly, Greg's death was a result of a fluke, when his car was tripped by the uneven level of the access road, and the unfortunate angle of impact, directly on his rollbar. However, the original mistake was a driver error.

Unlike Hearn's accident, Greg's hit straight on his rollbar. The rollbar is connected directly to the driver's safety cell. All the energy of the crash was transferred to the safety cell, and led to a catastrophic result. Impacts from any other direction have crush zones to dissipate the energy of a crash, except for one directly down on the rollbar. Greg was very, very unlucky that day. Unlike other rollbar crashes, like Pedro Diniz's which occur lateral to the rollbar, and energy is dissipated as the car slides on its rollbar, Greg's was straight down on top. There was not enough crushspace to dissipate any energy, and Greg suffered the horrific consequences.

Personally, I thought the G-forces were so great, that it appeared to me that his harness broke, as his shoulders seemed to be very high out of the cockpit, but I've been told they did not.

Really, that was just about the worst day or racing I can remember.

[BARnone]

MP4/?:

Since Hearn had his accident in the exact same spot - there is a case to be made that there was a problem with the track at that place. Who knows. As soon as Greg Moore got sideways in the air - that was it.

I have never heard of water on the tires with respect to Zanardi's accident. Some say such a bad accident could have been avoided if the pit wall configuration was different (longer). Tagliani couldn't have avoided Zanardi - Carpentier narrowly missed him.

The thing is - accidents will always happen - it's just other circumstances that contribute to the severity - grassy run off areas, dodgy pit exits, ineffective tire barriers, etc.

BARnone.

[vapaokie]

I have always heard that Zanardi's accident was simply a matter of going out too hard or getting on the throttle too soon on cold tires, or at least tires that had cooled off in the pitstop. Either way, just a simple mistake that he paid a horrible price for. How far around the turn are you going to build the pit wall? If I remember, he was nearly through turn 2?

As for "stand on the throttle, opposite lock the steering wheel to correct a loose oversteer condition on ovals"- I don't know Moore's racing background, but that is very common with sprint cars on dirt. Is just a much more risky proposition on pavement, obviously. Also, the high line, "the cushion"- where the dirt is rolled up by the racing action into almost a curbing-like structure, is often the fastest way around a dirt track. The same could be said for the top of the groove on pavement, just below the marbles. Is all a matter of maintaining momentum. Maybe why he ran so high- was what he was used to?

[KenC]

Originally posted by vapaokie
I have always heard that Zanardi's accident was simply a matter of going out too hard or getting on the throttle too soon on cold tires, or at least tires that had cooled off in the pitstop. Either way, just a simple mistake that he paid a horrible price for. How far around the turn are you going to build the pit wall? If I remember, he was nearly through turn 2?

As for "stand on the throttle, opposite lock the steering wheel to correct a loose oversteer condition on ovals"- I don't know Moore's racing background, but that is very common with sprint cars on dirt. Is just a much more risky proposition on pavement, obviously. Also, the high line, "the cushion"- where the dirt is rolled up by the racing action into almost a curbing-like structure, is often the fastest way around a dirt track. The same could be said for the top of the groove on pavement, just below the marbles. Is all a matter of maintaining momentum. Maybe why he ran so high- was what he was used to?

What you say regarding sprintcars on dirt is absolutely correct; however Greg did not have a spridget background, and even if he did, it still was not a common practice or even an uncommon practice to drive the way he did on an oval. He came up thru the regular roadrace development series, Formula Fords, Indy Lights, then CART.

Personally, I thought he was the greatest oval talent since Rick Mears, but I always worried about him.

[Paste]

I remember watching Greg's accident at Fontana and just thinking to myself, "there's not a chance.. but I can't give up hope". What a rotten track design, sheer stupidity at it's greatest.

[SlateGray]

This is a bit morbid.

I can clearly remember Greg Moore's crash.

The thing that stands out in my mind was what the car did after it hit the wall.
The car rolled along its longitudinal axis very very quickly. This may have put very many g's into Greg's head, again very morbid but it seemed from the video replays that Greg’s neck was stretched during these rolls possibly breaking his neck. (if it was not already broken from the impact with the infield wall)

Any way you look at that replay it is clear that when the car comes to rest Greg’s head was no longer attached to his body in the normal fashion.

Very sad way for JPM to win championship. If not for the death of Greg Moore it may will have been one of the best championship deciding races ever.

[Arrow]

Greg moores crash is easily the most violent one i have ever seen.Its still shocking.

I dont understand how rodriguez died from that impact,or earnheart for that matter.
Burtis,schumachers and ever fishichellas accidents were far more violent and were also head on.

I guess its probably down to the individuals body and how much it can take.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Speed. Earnhardt hit at a pretty high mph. Gonzalo hit at pretty good speed too, and perfectly head on. Fisichella, Schumacher, and Burti werent going *that* fast, went across gravel or grass, and into tire walls at angles.

[cheesy poofs]

Regarding Moore's fatal crash at Fontana

I know for a fact that Patrick Carpentier's parents were watching the race coverage on french-canadian TV ( RDS ) and when the accident happened, the announcers only mentionned a huge crash involving one of the Player's car. They never showed a replay of the crash - which led you to believe that this was very serious. They literally freaked out and tried to call Patrick's girlfriend on her cell phone to find out more because no other information was being mentionned as to who, of the two, had crashed. They then heard a french commentator say Patrick was coming in the pit-lane...much to their relief ! Their hearts started beating again...unlike Greg's

[BARnone]

Originally posted by Arrow
Greg moores crash is easily the most violent one i have ever seen.Its still shocking.

I dont understand how rodriguez died from that impact,or earnheart for that matter.
Burtis,schumachers and ever fishichellas accidents were far more violent and were also head on.

I guess its probably down to the individuals body and how much it can take.

Acceleration/deceleration (stopping suddenly/starting suddenly) injuries result in a fracture to the base of the skull. The head is snapped forward or backwards or both.

BARnone.

[sblick]

I was at the race and saw basically what happened. I personally think it was driver error and a faulty track design. A little background, the qualifying speeds that weekend were tremendous. The top drivers were in the high 230's and I think Mo Gugilmin (sic) set a closed course record at over 240 mph. Alex Zanardi didn't make the race because of a concussion suffered in practice when he crashed at 237 mph. Greg spun coming out of turn two going onto the back straight. Considering regular lap speeds in the mid 225's he had to be around 215-220mph when he lost control. The wind was blowing in such a way that the rear wings of competitors were losing lift and causing oversteer in that corner. I think Greg had told his engineer during the race that he was having a problem in turn 2. Multiple people spun out in turn 2 that day siting the wind and oversteer as the culprits. Anyway, he spun onto the infield which was grass, asphalt now. He did not scrub much speed and hit an emergency vehicle road parallel to the surface. The tires grabbed traction and he flipped multiple times. The car hit the inside wall roll bar first at a frightening speed crushing the roll bar and his head.

[Newtsche]

I had a lot of trouble coming to terms with Moore's death. A couple weeks later, it was Zanardi who helped me find peace -- ironic in that AZ was such a barrier to GM's success and I was no AZ fan as a result. I've always wished I'd c&p'd Zanardi's comments on the loss of Greg, I have to paraphrase. Zanardi basically said the Moore loved doing what he did, had just made an outside pass on 3 cars at a super speedway and was probably laughing as his car left the circuit. Presumptuous? Perhaps, and the comments say as much about Zanardi as they do the wreck and I loved AZ for what he'd said. Zanardi's response to his own tragedy fits perfectly with his view of the GM loss, my respect for AZ now equals my respect for Greg.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by sblick
I was at the race and saw basically what happened. I personally think it was driver error and a faulty track design. A little background, the qualifying speeds that weekend were tremendous. The top drivers were in the high 230's and I think Mo Gugilmin (sic) set a closed course record at over 240 mph. Alex Zanardi didn't make the race because of a concussion suffered in practice when he crashed at 237 mph. Greg spun coming out of turn two going onto the back straight. Considering regular lap speeds in the mid 225's he had to be around 215-220mph when he lost control. The wind was blowing in such a way that the rear wings of competitors were losing lift and causing oversteer in that corner. I think Greg had told his engineer during the race that he was having a problem in turn 2. Multiple people spun out in turn 2 that day siting the wind and oversteer as the culprits. Anyway, he spun onto the infield which was grass, asphalt now. He did not scrub much speed and hit an emergency vehicle road parallel to the surface. The tires grabbed traction and he flipped multiple times. The car hit the inside wall roll bar first at a frightening speed crushing the roll bar and his head.

You're mixing up 1997 race with 1999. In 1997, the pole speed average was 242 MPH, and in practice, both Zanardi and Carpentier suffered concussions in heavy crashes. Arie L(can't spell his last name) subbed for Zanardi and crashed heavily as well when Arnd Meier spun into his path. The car was destroyed, and he also suffered concussion. In 1999, they were racing with Handford devices, which caused great turbulence to cars behind. As I remember, early in the race, drivers were really aggressive and ragged and didn't respect each other, I remember Helio Castro-Neves almost being hit twice in two laps by cars which were too hasty to cut into his line. During those early laps, I actually made a remark on AOL board that somebody is going to get killed if they continue to drive like idiots. That was literally two minutes before Moore's wreck. I think the cause for both Hearn's crash and Moore's crash was throwing caution to the wind and getting too caught up with racing other cars. Moore was also starting from the back, since he missed qualifying due to broken finger, and he was probably in too great a haste to get back in front.

[RiverRunner]

sblick makes a good point,nearly all the crashes at Fontana happen in T2,even in NASCAR,for any number of reasons I can think of.
-prevailing winds are head on
-it's the most severe drop in the racecourse,from the highbanks of the entire course to flat
-carrying mojo speed off the bank into the flats is an invitation to having the rear step out
-it's precisely the spot where the throttle is hammered for the drag race down the backstraight

[John B]

Much as I hate to say this, a crash like Moore's seemed to me inevitable on the big tracks. I remember watching indy cars race at Michigan and later Fontana since the early 1980s, and there were some real demolition derbys, I can remember the 1984 race when Andretti beat Sneva in a photo finish and there were something like 5 gigantic wrecks. One which involved Al Unser Jr and Chip Ganassi produced at least one car flipping down in the backstretch grass. Things seemed to calm down for a few years, but they were still running awesome speeds. As time went on the younger, more aggressive drivers came on the scene and the devices prompted very close racing which is not a good combo at 240. Arie Luyendyk's crash at Fontana when he was t-boned easily could have been a disaster; I always wondered if a car ran over the wheels of another in such an accident if it could fly into the crowd like Krosnoff's did.

Ironically, Moore had a huge spin down the Michigan backstretch once and continued without hitting anything, even taking the lead later. Radio comment: "Boy that was fun" Was Michigan's backstretch area paved then?

[ebin]

Ironically, Moore had a huge spin down the Michigan backstretch once and continued without hitting anything, even taking the lead later. Radio comment: "Boy that was fun" Was Michigan's backstretch area paved then?

That was all grass. It was pretty amazing, he pretty much went down 3/4 of the backstretch over grass and as soon as he got it under control again he went back on track and kept going.

I agree with your sentiment that the races on the big ovals were just a disaster waiting to happen. Those cars were just going so damn fast - I would say that the CART superspeedway races were the most dangerous races (and perhaps most challenging) around.

[KenC]

Originally posted by sblick
I was at the race and saw basically what happened. I personally think it was driver error and a faulty track design. A little background, the qualifying speeds that weekend were tremendous. The top drivers were in the high 230's and I think Mo Gugilmin (sic) set a closed course record at over 240 mph. Alex Zanardi didn't make the race because of a concussion suffered in practice when he crashed at 237 mph. Greg spun coming out of turn two going onto the back straight. Considering regular lap speeds in the mid 225's he had to be around 215-220mph when he lost control. The wind was blowing in such a way that the rear wings of competitors were losing lift and causing oversteer in that corner. I think Greg had told his engineer during the race that he was having a problem in turn 2. Multiple people spun out in turn 2 that day siting the wind and oversteer as the culprits. Anyway, he spun onto the infield which was grass, asphalt now. He did not scrub much speed and hit an emergency vehicle road parallel to the surface. The tires grabbed traction and he flipped multiple times. The car hit the inside wall roll bar first at a frightening speed crushing the roll bar and his head.

As I posted above, if you looked at the trap speeds from Omega's timing, Greg's setup was such that he was doing 200mph on his best lap, of about 10 before his crash, exiting T2. His setup was by far, the most extreme, giving a speed differential of 40mph between his s/f line speed and his T2 exit speed. I believe he deliberately took a low downforce setup, if you recollect, the races at Fontana had shown that having a low-drag car was good for making a pass right before the s/f line. This of course, made the car a handful in the corners. Richie Hearn, another driver who had crashed before Greg, in T2, also had an extreme lowdrag setup, as exhibited also by a high speed differential. Most drivers had differentials in the 15 to 20mph range, and not the 40mph exhibited by Greg.

The tires did not "grab traction", but were tripped as the access road was a fraction of an inch higher than the surface around them. This happens occassionally on grooved graveltraps, where a groove, if too deep, can trip a car that is sideways. And, the car did not flip "multiple times". It tipped up on its side, once tripped, until Greg hit the top of his rollbar on the inside wall. Subsequently, his tub, flipped "multiple times".

[Treeface]

Greg lightly touched the outside wall going into T1 (4 cars wide) and rebounded into Blundel with a wheel to wheel tap. Mark lifted, GM did not

Dario did have a motor let go and hose down the pit exit with fluid just moments before AZ pitted.

[HouseOfDesai]

This is kinda OT on the GM incident, but i remember that he almost didn't race that day because he had gotten into a traffic accident on his scooter in a parking lot that weekend (or even that day) and had broken his hand/finger, and they were conserns weather or not he could drive with that hand, i always found it sad that if he hadn't driven that accident wouldn't have happen, and i always wondered if he had more strength in that hand would his car control been better.

[KenC]

Originally posted by Arrow
Greg moores crash is easily the most violent one i have ever seen.Its still shocking.

I dont understand how rodriguez died from that impact,or earnheart for that matter.
Burtis,schumachers and ever fishichellas accidents were far more violent and were also head on.

I guess its probably down to the individuals body and how much it can take.

Schumi's speed at impact was 61mph. Not fast at all, and he had tires to cushion the blow, even if they weren't laced properly.

It's never down to the "individuals body", as no amount of strengthening would make one driver better at survival than another, in these types of basilar fractures. It's all physics, and that's why HANS devices are necessary.

[FastMex]

Regarding Greg Moore's regretful accident, Gil DeFerran mentioned that he believed it was due to the newly adopted Hanfdord device. He said he'd rather have more speed in the cars but with control, and not the reverse. Prior to GM's shunt, Ritchie Hearn lost control of his car at exactly the same spot as Greg did. Ritchie was fortunate, though, that his car didn't started to roll...

[FastMex]

Originally posted by sblick
...Alex Zanardi didn't make the race because of a concussion suffered in practice when he crashed at 237 mph....

FYI, Alex Zanardi was in Europe racing F1 with Williams. GM made no driver error. Please get your facts straight.

[Joe in LA]

Originally posted by HouseOfDesai
This is kinda OT on the GM incident, but i remember that he almost didn't race that day because he had gotten into a traffic accident on his scooter in a parking lot that weekend (or even that day) and had broken his hand/finger, and they were conserns weather or not he could drive with that hand, i always found it sad that if he hadn't driven that accident wouldn't have happen, and i always wondered if he had more strength in that hand would his car control been better.

I was at the race and saw the drivers "say goodbye" to Wally Dallenbach as it was to be Wally's last race as an official. Greg bounded up to Wally, all smiles and shook hands with his left, rather than right because it was injured. Having seen that, I wondered how he would handle a race car with it. I have no idea if that was a "cause" of the accident, but clearly he was not 100% that day.

My reaction to the crash was different than a lot of other posters--having seen Hearn's accident, I expected that Greg would be ok.

[slhansen]

I was told that GM was given pain killers intravenously before the race, by medical staff who believed he wouldn't be driving due to his injuries. Then Greg decided that he was fit to race. I was never able to verify this, but GM was nothing if not confident in his own abilities. I do seem to remember that it was GM's decision to race that day against the advice of
some of those closest to him.

I'd be very interested to learn what sort of pain management was being used that day. None of the post race coverage I was able to find addressed this issue directly.

BTW, I was at that race too, directly across from the heliport, where I could see the medical staff rush the stretcher to a position beside the helicopter (with rotor blades already turning), then stand around him idly for the next 10 minutes. That was about the time we saw Greg Penske walk into the medical center wearing casual clothes and emerge in a black suit, black shoes, etc..

[RiverRunner]

I'd give a lot more credence to the injury question but for Hearn's identical crash just prior to GM's.

[StickShift]

Originally posted by slhansen
I was told that GM was given pain killers intravenously before the race, by medical staff who believed he wouldn't be driving due to his injuries. Then Greg decided that he was fit to race. I was never able to verify this, but GM was nothing if not confident in his own abilities. I do seem to remember that it was GM's decision to race that day against the advice of
some of those closest to him.

I'd be very interested to learn what sort of pain management was being used that day. None of the post race coverage I was able to find addressed this issue directly.

BTW, I was at that race too, directly across from the heliport, where I could see the medical staff rush the stretcher to a position beside the helicopter (with rotor blades already turning), then stand around him idly for the next 10 minutes. That was about the time we saw Greg Penske walk into the medical center wearing casual clothes and emerge in a black suit, black shoes, etc..

They froze his arm like they would your mouth at the dentist. No, that wouldn't have anything to do with the crash. Cart medical staff were smart enough (and rightly so) to not give him anything that would impair his driving.

[cheesy poofs]

Greg really wanted to race that fateful day. Nothing was going to stop him because this was going to be his last race with the Player's Forsythe team. Also on the line - was a cool one million $ prize to the winner !

[Lee Roy]

I saw Moore's wreck on TV. The most horrific accident I have ever witnessed. Moore's loss to motor racing was immense.

[daSilvium]

I was watching live too that day, and as soon as i saw the accident I actually remember saying instantly in a low voice "he's gone. there's no chance".

- sadly i was right.


I'm just glad that the TV cameras didn't capture any more detail than they already did.
Immediately after the accident, the TV producer sensibly only showed long-range shots etc. from helicopters of Moore's smashed car. But i do recall seeing two marshalls run up to the car, and you could see one of them instantly put his hands to his own head in horror at what he saw.

To this day, i have a picture of Greg Moore on the wall at home, smiling in his Player's overalls.

A great loss.

The only consolation was that he must have died instantly. He can't have felt anything.

[BARnone]

Adrian Fernandez saw Greg Moore's accident as they both started at the end of the grid. This is what he told Dan Proudfoot of the Toronto Sun:

Fernandez witnessed Moore's accident. The Mexican was trailing in 20th place, having decided the racing was too intense and it was wise to sit back until things settled down. Moore already had battled to 15th from 27th.

"He was in a bunch of cars battling and I believe someone in front of him slowed," Fernandez said. "Touching the brake would be all it would take, especially with him close behind another car so it took his air away (reducing the downforce essential to maintaining traction).
"I don't speculate there was any mechanical problem that caused it. A bump on the track? No, I don't think so. Just, it's very, very easy to lose control when you lose your air."

BARnone.