190 replies to this topic

[Dolph]

I am looking to take up karting. Can u please tell me how dangerous is it, what protective gear there is, what fuel does a kart use and what kind of different classes are there. Additionally, how big is the kart engine and how much does one go-kart cost?

[SennasCat]

I raced karts for two years before leaving to study IT. Sum total of injuries - broken bone in my hand, knocked out once, rolled it on three separate occasions. No worse than playing football and much more exciting. Biggest cost was fresh tyres every couple of months. One engine blowup, one blueprint and several services - new piston ring etc.

It ran standard 2-stroke fuel, Yamaha engine. Did a lot of gym work, had a foam neck brace and decent overalls. Would probably go for leathers if I had my time again.

Go for it

PS I was running a 100c sprint kart. It still felt pretty quick coming off the bridge at Oran Park...

[karlth]

Originally posted by Dolph
I am looking to take up karting. Can u please tell me how dangerous is it, what protective gear there is, what fuel does a kart use and what kind of different classes are there. Additionally, how big is the kart engine and how much does one go-kart cost?

Karting is roughly split it into 2 types. 4 strokes, normal rental karts(200cc) and more powerful and heavier variants(2x200cc Pro Karts, 270cc, 390cc) and the more powerful 2 strokes of which the most popular class is probably Rotax(125cc), there are more powerul classes available but you ain't going there for some years.

A Rotax kart costs probably 4000 Euro or 3000 for a good used example.

Karting is not dangerous although there have been a few fatalities, mostly due to freak accidents. The point of gravity is very low so they shouldn't roll and the chassis is strong so it will not break on impact. For protection you have a helmet and a neck brace in the faster classes, no belts.

If you want to take up karting, take a look at what type of Karting is available near you. Start by trying 200c 4 stroke rental karts if you haven't done so already and take it from there.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
Sum total of injuries - broken bone in my hand, knocked out once, rolled it on three separate occasions.

Rolled it three times!

You must have been a very aggressive driver.

[The Kanisteri]

nah...Karting ain't dangerous.

tips:
On curves try to lean your weight outside of curve to increase cornering grip.
Sliding use to slow down your speed, so try to drive as smooth as possible.
On tight turns try to use all wide off track to maintain good speed for incoming straight.
Cheat as much as possible. If your karting car has visible acceleration wire try to tread the wire with your heel to get more revs.

[TOLIN]

Originally posted by The Kanisteri
nah...Karting ain't dangerous.

wire try to tread the wire with your heel to get more revs.

eXaclty, eXactly.
We use to run cart competition among friends in pay tracks where cars arent the same and where they are limited. This is the way you get more speed out of the car and often gives you the edge against the others. Though in some carts is not easy, it worths a try...

I practice carting in some indoor "rain" tracks. (they are made of smoothed concrete with a layer of sliding wax on them.) When the track and tyres are cold is DAMN, DAMN difficult to run on them and do speed. A little later, it gets much better. This are the "school" because to win a race is just control of the car and technic. This was not much about speed. I think I developed my technic quite a lot there... Try to find one, in case you want to train, else you can already beat schumi...

[Dolph]

Originally posted by The Kanisteri
On curves try to lean your weight outside of curve to increase cornering grip.

I thought you have to lean inside If you lean outside, you might topple, right?


These are great tips, keep them comin'

[jk]

I remember MS leaned to the outside when he raced some time ago. Apparently this was to increase weight on the tire with the most stress, therefore increasing cornering grip.

[MaxScelerate]

Dolph... I never went karting, but I'd guess that, given their low centre of gravity Karts are not easily toppleable (?). So, yes, putting more weight on the outside tires will give them more grip and trust me, that's were you'd want your grip while cornering.

Then I guess, seeing Steve rolled his kart three times, that you don't want to lean outside *that* much...

[silver]

My English is not perfect in these technical terms but bear with me...

I think the main reason for leaning towards the outside of the curve is not only to increase grip on outside tires rather than to lift inner rear tyre into air.

Go-kart has fixed(?) real axle without any differential which basically means that the velocity of both rear tires is determined by the velocity of the inner rear tyre. And since the inner rear tyre has shorter radius in every corner that also limits the velocity of the whole go-cart.

Also if you go into the corner to slowly which means that both of your rear tires are on the ground you will have a lot of understeer since both the rear tyres are pushing the go-cart forward (no differential what so ever)...

[karlth]

Originally posted by silver
My English is not perfect in these technical terms but bear with me...

I think the main reason for leaning towards the outside of the curve is not only to increase grip on outside tires rather than to lift inner rear tyre into air.

Go-kart has fixed(?) real axle without any differential which basically means that the velocity of both rear tires is determined by the velocity of the inner rear tyre. And since the inner rear tyre has shorter radius in every corner that also limits the velocity of the whole go-cart.

Also if you go into the corner to slowly which means that both of your rear tires are on the ground you will have a lot of understeer since both the rear tyres are pushing the go-cart forward (no differential what so ever)...

Good explanation.

On the other hand if you lean on the inside in tight hairpins on 4 stroke rentals you can slightly lift the outer weels and thus turn your kart into a motor cycle with a much shorter turning radius.

The best tip of all:

If you go to a GoKart track with your buddies one, if not all, of them will say that they were on the limit because they went completely sideways in the corners. What that really means is that in perhaps 10% of the corner they are 200% of the limit of the kart, while in the rest of the corner they around 20-30% on the limit. What you need to do is to be 100% of the limit in 100% of the corner.

[The Kanisteri]

Originally posted by Dolph



I thought you have to lean inside If you lean outside, you might topple, right?


These are great tips, keep them comin'

L L
Leaning inside would work with snowmobiles, but leaning outside of curve fits better for karting cars. Trust me.
Look, if you move some weight to outside of curve, it decreases sliding and makes outside tires to stick more harder to surface. Don't worry about rolling over, like karlth said:

The point of gravity is very low so they shouldn't roll and the chassis is strong so it will not break on impact

[karlth]

Anyone racing Rotax?

[andviv]

some links:

http://www.cix.co.uk...rivhint.htm#top

KartLink

Those have really good info. Hope you like them.

And, if you have any other question, ask 100cc who is really into it.

[daSilvium]

Originally posted by karlth
Anyone racing Rotax?

Not racing Rotax Max, but i have test-driven one.
They're great - 28bhp, 125cc water-cooled.

very quick kart.

I've been racing 100cc 2-strokes for about 5 or 6 years now and it's such a good discipline for increasing car control, and confidence in almost any 4-wheeled vehicle.

Dolph - try out some 4-stroke karts first, but PROPER karting is 2-stroke outdoor racing. These karts have great throttle-response (once above low speed) and you can't beat the sound (and smell) of a 2-stroke kart at full throttle. They rev to about 15,000rpm.
It's not dangerous as long as you drive within your own abilities, don't do anything too stupid.

Karts have very low centre of gravity, and to roll one you would need to either go off track and "dig in" to the dirt and hit another kart at a very unusual angle. I've never rolled one in years of competitive racing, and we're all driving on the limit all the time.

Vitor Meira (Brazilian driver racing in F3 a few years ago) once turned up as a guest and won the lightweight race, (i'm a heavyweight!) but he had a fight on his hands and only just one.

I do endurance racing as well as sprint racing, and believe me, it's more tiring than you think it will be. It's a very physical sport and to do a 30 or 40 minute stint flat-out on slicks outside on a hot day is hard work.

If you want to buy a 2-stroke kart (after gaining a bit of experience) then i recommend a TKM-class kart. They have a 100cc BT82 TKM engine, which is very reliable, and good power. Many different chassis' - Solo, Gold, Fullerton, Wright, Tonykart, Topkart, Project1. The list goes on and on. A 2 year old kart and all the bits and pieces will cost in the UK about GBP1000 or less.
(That's about EUR1500). And that will be a good chassis and extra tyres etc.

Try looking at :
www.karting.co.uk

loads of info on there about all kinds of things, including karts for sale. (ok for sale in the UK, but it should give you an idea of the equipment).

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[100cc]

Originally posted by karlth
Anyone racing Rotax?

ME!!!

The rotax-max that is. Why?

I've been karting for around 5 years now.... a year in an 85cc class when I was just starting out, which had hard tyres and taught me a lot. Then some more in a 100cc piston-port class, also with extremely hard tyres, almost like driving in the rain. Now in the Rotax Max....which isn't far off the pace of reed-valve 100cc karts, which I also have some experience in, but no races.

-Dolph.....my opinion is that do NOT go out karting and start leaning to the outside- or inside or corners. The only thing this will do is get you tired faster and it will take your concentration away from the task at hand. Some of the best karting drivers I've ever seen live remain completely still in the kart....and after watching the FSA championships on tv I'm pretty sure none of them leaned outside either. The gains are so small, that the disatvantages outweigh them....especially, or at least when you're starting out. Try to remain seated still in the kart, and concentrate on the driving.

Main thing is to learn to be smooth, eventually you might learn that for certain corners it might be faster to throw it in with the brakes ever so slightly...but again, thats something to worry about later. Learn to brake very effectively....so that the tyres almost lock up....but they don't. Also its best to brake when you're going in a straight line, and then ease of the brake when you start turning.

To learn the racing lines just follow the other (good) drivers at the track, and learn from them. You can get the basic "racing line" just by watching f1 races.

As for starting out.....like others have said, try the 4 stroke karts, and see if you're into it at all....but remember that most rental karts are kept in horrible condition and handle like crap - and the seat will not fit you. When you try a proper 2 stroker you'll be amazed.



Btw, soon all karts are going to start becoming four-strokers, so I guess we'll have to start saying, the "racing engines" and "rental engines."



As for what class to start in....something like the yamaha....or any other piston port 100cc engine class seems like a good place to start. Look around at your local tracks and see whats going on.

[100cc]

oh and check out ekartingnews.com and go to the forums.

If you have any questions, I suggest you search through the archives in the forums with keywords...you're bound to find what you need, and if you don't....ask.



Oh and about the dangers.....after 5 years....I've retired from a maximum or 5 races beacuse of a collision/spin....I think probably only three times....but there's bound to be some I'm forgetting.

I've never rolled. Once I've been rear-ended pretty badly (in free practice, on a street circuit), and had slight pain on my back, which quickly went away.....there was much more pain from the bent axle and broken radiator. The only other time that I've been "hurt" was when some idiot trying a rotax max for the first time came charging at me into a corner, and smacked my front wheel, which made my steering wheel snap and my thumb was slightly hurt, but there was no pain the next day. So karting is a SAFE sport.....but you have to be smart when racing to make it safe.

And many people freak out when they hear, or notice that karts don't have seatbelts. Take the above example where I was rear-ended....it probably would've been worse if I did have a seat belt, because I couldn't bend over to get out of the way of the other kart.
....and if you roll, you don't want to stay in the kart....its better to fly out.

anyways....enough ramblings from me....looks like I'm starting to talk out of my a**.

[mhferrari]

Dolph, thank you for starting this thread, as I am interested in starting up in karting as well.

100cc, I would guess your Atlas name is derived from the kart class?

By the way, how long would you say the average set of tyres last for a kart (Note average, not the super grippy tyres that are quite pricey and don't last very long).

[karlth]

Originally posted by 100cc

ME!!!

The rotax-max that is. Why?

Just that I'll be racing in the National(125cc) and Rotax championships next year. Interesting to know if someone had any racing experience with them. Wonderful karts.

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by 100cc
anyways....enough ramblings from me....looks like I'm starting to talk out of my a**.

No, this information is useful, you can continue if you want.

[cozworth]

Hey Buford where are u? I beleive u'r one of the best here to give some tips

[100cc]

Originally posted by mhferrari
Dolph, thank you for starting this thread, as I am interested in starting up in karting as well.

100cc, I would guess your Atlas name is derived from the kart class?

By the way, how long would you say the average set of tyres last for a kart (Note average, not the super grippy tyres that are quite pricey and don't last very long).

Yeah, I was driving in the 100cc piston-port class when I registered at atlas.


ok....tyre life. Remeber that at the moment I race in malaysia....so its really hot and the tyres will wear out pretty fast compared to colder climates.


Super hard compound tyres will last 500 for front tyres.

Then there are the, I guess normal tyres, which will last anywhere from 150 to 350 laps(front tyres) I guess...depending of course on exactly what tyres they are and how you drive with them.

Some of the very soft compound tyres have managed to wear down to the thread (the fronts) for me in less than 60 laps!!! This was under race conditions and with me having to drive very aggressive lines because I had fallen back.

Generally rear tyres last double what the front tyres last....The problem with putting on new front tyres with old rear tyres is that you'll probably turn the kart from neutral handling to oversteer...since you have new grippy tyres up front...and your rear tyres are past their prime.

As I mentioned, how you drive will drastically effect how long your tyres will last. If you slide around they'll wear faster. If your front end setup is poor they'll also wear quickly. So driving smooth will not only be faster....it'll be cheaper.

Oh and I race generally on tracks about 1km or slightly longer in distance.....oh and add to that....the layout of the track as well as the surface will also have an affect on tyre wear, as will what pressures you are running.


So most probably...unless you're involved in crashes....or you manage to destroy your engine in some way.....your greatest cost will be the tyres.




Oh and btw....a very interesting thing when you start racing is how the amount of rubber on the track REALLY improves your times. For example at Sepang(kart track next to the f1 circuit), where very few people practice routinely, but many show up for the races, the times in practice can be more than 3 seconds slower than your times in the race!!

And I've usually noticed that unless my tyres start to wear....there's generally a couple of tenths improvements each heat....because more rubber is being put on the track.

And another thing is that its VERY different to drive on a green track than it is on a track that has lots of rubber on it.

Anyways...now my eyes are starting to close....and I can't remember what I have or haven't typed, so I'll get back to you guys later ....after some sleep.

[Dolph]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 100cc
[B]
-Dolph.....my opinion is that do NOT go out karting and start leaning to the outside- or inside or corners. The only thing this will do is get you tired faster and it will take your concentration away from the task at hand. Some of the best karting drivers I've ever seen live remain completely still in the kart....and after watching the FSA championships on tv I'm pretty sure none of them leaned outside either. The gains are so small, that the disatvantages outweigh them....especially, or at least when you're starting out. Try to remain seated still in the kart, and concentrate on the driving.

To learn the racing lines just follow the other (good) drivers at the track, and learn from them. You can get the basic "racing line" just by watching f1 races.


Well, thanks 100cc. I've actually played quite a lot of F1 games (F1 Racing Simulation, F1 Racing Simulation 2 , F12001, F12002). So I have some idea about racing lines. And also about the leaning. Well, actually I'm in pretty good shape (I work out and jog), but I guess u are right when u say I should concentrate on driving. All-in-all a very good post and a lot of tips from all of u

[Dolph]

i actually went to a local (Ok, it's in another country ) karting track. I raced 8 minutes and did a time of 52 seconds and smth. The track record was 49 seconds and smth. Considering that I weigh 71 kg, and have almost no karting experience, and god knows what kind of a kart I got, I think that was pretty good

Do you think there is hope for me?

[daSilvium]

Originally posted by Dolph
i actually went to a local (Ok, it's in another country ) karting track. I raced 8 minutes and did a time of 52 seconds and smth. The track record was 49 seconds and smth. Considering that I weigh 71 kg, and have almost no karting experience, and god knows what kind of a kart I got, I think that was pretty good

Do you think there is hope for me?

If you weigh only 71kg then that sounds like a good physique for a karter.

In motorsport, but particularly karting, weight is everything. The lighter you are, the fast you go.

In karting, on an average lenght outdoor track (about 1000 - 1300metres) each 10kg you are heavier equates to approxiamtely 0.5seconds slower per lap. (everything else being equal of course).


I weigh 86kg at the moment (90kg all geared up) and that's why i am racing in the Heavyweight section of my karting championship. Minimum weight is 85kg (all geared up) so i am 5kg over-weight for my class which means i am already losing about 0.25secs per lap to the lighter people.

The gap between lighter and heavier drivers gets substantially smaller when it's raining by the way. Extra weight gives more traction and grip in the corners when it's wet. When it's wet you can and should use move your bodyweight around to give more grip.

[Arnie]

Originally posted by Dolph
i actually went to a local (Ok, it's in another country ) karting track. I raced 8 minutes and did a time of 52 seconds and smth. The track record was 49 seconds and smth. Considering that I weigh 71 kg, and have almost no karting experience, and god knows what kind of a kart I got, I think that was pretty good

Do you think there is hope for me?

Lets me guess.You went to FK Karting center...(I am an estonian and have been there a few times)
To my knowledge the trackrecord is 46 something..I have managed 48,48........
Actually the record is 3 seconds but thats another story which involves Crashing,being almost banned from the circuit..lol

Can you remeber what number was the Kart you drove?

edit:DaSilvium..A question to you..I have noticed that lighter drivers have more troubles with the karts.From karting with friends,all the lighter ones complained about the karts being impossible to drive?Does it have any truth to it or were they just talking BS?

Remeber that the karts we drove are just a piece of **** and the quality of them is...well ****.

[100cc]

Originally posted by Arnie

edit:DaSilvium..A question to you..I have noticed that lighter drivers have more troubles with the karts.From karting with friends,all the lighter ones complained about the karts being impossible to drive?Does it have any truth to it or were they just talking BS?

In indoor karting tracks with the very low grip surface and tyres, the lighter drivers may be at a disadvantage in the corners...because they just don't have the grip that the heavier drivers are able to make. So this is why the lighter drivers may complain about the karts being difficult to drive(because they have low amounts of grip). Before I properly started karting, I went to indoor circuits a lot, and it used to be so that the lighter guys would have a huge advantage at the track I visited the most.....but after they got new (more powerful) karts, and changed the layout, the heavier guys could put up a fight on the featherweight.

In karting weight is very important. I'm now at about 80kg (during a race weekend it drops to around 77kg), and I'm usually about 3 to 7kg over the minimum, so it hurts my times, but only ever so slightly. Personally I think that saying 1 extra kg loses you 0.XX seconds a lap is just too difficult to determine. It depends on the track, the amount of grip available, and the setup and what type of a kart it is....and where the weight is.

When I first started I went into a class which I'd be too old for after 1 year, so I was already about 20kg above the minimum weight...I won only one race, which was a bit lucky, and most other races I'd struggle with being faster in the corners, but slower down the straights, mainly because my weight would help me in the corners, but would drastically affect my acceleration.

So dolphi, around 70kg is pretty good, you won't have to add more than a few kilos of lead to your kart to make the minimum. (depending on the class of course, but you should at least be overweight by any large amount in any calss)


And I just watched the FSA world championship races again on tv, and I can confirm that I didn't see any of the drivers leaning over in the dry....the only thing that you could properly see moving were there hands, otherwise they looked frozen. In the wet however I did notice some drivers leaning forward, and perhaps a bit to the sides. The problem in the wet is understeer, which is why you want to try to get more weight up front....to make it turn in better.

[daSilvium]

Originally posted by Arnie


edit:DaSilvium..A question to you..I have noticed that lighter drivers have more troubles with the karts.From karting with friends,all the lighter ones complained about the karts being impossible to drive?Does it have any truth to it or were they just talking BS?

Remeber that the karts we drove are just a piece of **** and the quality of them is...well ****.

Sounds like BS mainly to me. On an indoor circuit, then the light guys might not have quite the same grip in the corners, but they will win on acceleration. Over a whole lap though, the lighter guy should always win.
Outdoors, (assuming ability and the karts are the same) then a lighter driver should always have the edge on a heavier driver. The gap is emphasised when a circuit has many slow hairpins as that places emphasis on acceleration from low revs and then this is when the lighter drivers can pull away a bit.

Of course, a heavier driver who has better ability will beat a lighter guy who is not so good. These differences are small and they only really count when all the drivers are of equal ability.

So summary - i've personally never really heard of light drivers claiming a kart is impossible to drive. In any car or kart, when you get on the circuit, the first thing you do is instantly to get a feel for how much grip there is.

As Martin Brundle said : "Driving in any series is all about finding out how much grip is available and driving on that limit all the time".


ps. totally agree about "rental" karts. They are almost always a P.O.S., and do not ever judge what a kart can do solely by driving rental karts with a crap engine, crap tyres, crap handling, crap brakes, probably slightly bent chassis etc. If you can, find someone who has his own outdoor kart (preferably 2-stroke) and persuade him to let you have a drive and then you will see what it's all about. It really is night and day.
So many people who've just done indoor rental kart races (about 5 or 6bhp 4-stroke) think "oh yeah, i've done karting and i'm pretty good at it and i know all about it". Well, they don't !
Outdoor 2-stroke karts usually have between 14 and 30bhp, depending on the class.

Some 250cc gearbox karts have 90bhp and go 160mph which is really fairly scary.
Coulthard drove a 250cc gearbox kart once and said "i can't yet drive it properly on the limits with only a brief experience. The braking of it is the closest thing i've ever experienced to F1 braking."

[MrBreaker]

Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.
First off, there is only one in the Washington, D.C. area and it uses pretty shitty karts, I think. They have 2 engines, that look and sound like lawn mower engines. The chassis looks pretty respectable (I think they're JT karts), so they are definately above the level of amusment park karts. So here are my questions:

1. If I put just a little too much pressure on the brake (from full throttle), it locks up right away. So when I brake, I barely put any pressure on the brake to prevent this. What am I doing wrong? Is it me or the kart?

2. From above, I read that you can set up karts, to improve understeer/oversteer. How does one set up a kart? It seems to me that there are 4 wheels on a kart, with a chassis. What more can you do? (as appose to F1 cars where there are wings, ride heights, etc.)

[100cc]

yeah, to add to my previous post....the reason that the light guys say that the karts are "impossible" to drive, is because they are trying to drive them too fast and are going over the limit all the time (sliding around). They won't have as much grip in the corners, which is why they go over the limit so more easily. But they should still beat the heavier guys, because of the better acceleration.


and yes, rental and proper karts really are night and day! One of the main differences is that you don't fit in the seat properly. Almost all rental karts that I have ever driven have had seats which are too wide, and make you slide around in the seat. Or if they are the right size, they are the weirdest shape so you don't fit into them properly(i.e, only parts of the seat press against your body). Some (good )rental places have seats to put inside the seat, as well as just some soft-seat, a mattress in the shape of the seat, to make the seats fit better, which is great!!

The next thing is the setup is usually crap, brakes will work or won't, bent chassis etc.etc.etc.

[karlth]

Originally posted by MrBreaker
Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.
First off, there is only one in the Washington, D.C. area and it uses pretty shitty karts, I think. They have 2 engines, that look and sound like lawn mower engines.

Probably Pro Karts. 2x200cc 4 stroke motors motors.

1. If I put just a little too much pressure on the brake (from full throttle), it locks up right away. So when I brake, I barely put any pressure on the brake to prevent this. What am I doing wrong? Is it me or the kart?

You are doing nothing wrong. In winged cars(F1, etc) you can press the brake pedal to the floor at top speed because the downforce is so great that the wheels will not lock, then while the car slows down you slowly release the brake. In karts on the other hand you'll have to be gentle all the time with the brake because otherwise you'll lock up the rear wheels, no matter the speed. You can increase the pressure though at slower speeds.

Try to minimize the use of the brake, on most circuits they hardly need to be used at all.

2. From above, I read that you can set up karts, to improve understeer/oversteer. How does one set up a kart? It seems to me that there are 4 wheels on a kart, with a chassis. What more can you do? (as appose to F1 cars where there are wings, ride heights, etc.)

You can stiffen and loosen the chassis, adjust the ride height, adjust the tyre pressure, toe-in, etc. Everything apart from wings and suspension as a kart has neither.

[MrBreaker]

Thanks for the advice karlth. So are you saying the best way to get around with those karts is to ease off the throttle, instead of using the brakes? For instance, after the long straight, should I just let go of the gas, or should I apply just the slightest amount of brake? I think I can get away with not using the brakes for the rest of the track.

[karlth]

Originally posted by MrBreaker
Thanks for the advice karlth. So are you saying the best way to get around with those karts is to ease off the throttle, instead of using the brakes? For instance, after the long straight, should I just let go of the gas, or should I apply just the slightest amount of brake? I think I can get away with not using the brakes for the rest of the track.

Most of the time you'll have to use the brake when entering a hairpin after a long straight or when just releasing the throttle doesn't allow you to set the kart up properly for the next straight or corner.

What most new kart drivers do though is to use the brake in fast sweeping corners, often on entry. In those cases it is usually much better to either lift of slightly (not too much or you'll upset the kart) or adjust the line through the bend.



On this track for instance in a powerful 2 stroke kart you'll brake for hairpins #1 and #2 and the 90 degree left that is turn 3. That's it. The rest of the way you are either full throttle or slightly lifting.

In a 4 stroke rental you are full throttle all the way only braking for turn #1 and lifting for turn #2.

[MrBreaker]

Perfect, thanks.

[daSilvium]

The other thing to realise is that the faster you go, the more grip you have !

What i mean by that is that very simply, you will only get the slick tyres up to proper optimum temperature if you push pretty hard. So by pushing hard, and getting the tyres hot, this will give you proper grip and allow you to go even faster.

If you're new to karting, you're probably only going 70-80% of the ultimate pace that you could go, and it's unlikely that the tyres will get hot enough to give you maximum grip. A new karter will probably watch a more experienced karter on the same track, same corner, and say to himself "HOW did that guy take that corner so fast ? When i tried it i span off !"
- Partly technique, partly more grip from hot tyres.

For example, If i've been driving in an endurance race for about 20 minutes or so, and i get punted off etc., and am stationary for only about 1 minute (no clutch on a direct-drive outdoor kart means it stalls instantly when you spin, and you have to wait for a "pusher kart" to push-start you again) the loss of grip from just sitting there for 60 seconds with the tyres cooling is instantly noticeable. They cool down enough very quickly to lose their optimum grip.

[100cc]

Originally posted by daSilvium
The other thing to realise is that the faster you go, the more grip you have !

Actually I think if you're 3-4 seconds off the pace of the fastest guys, your tyre temperature will not effect your grip level much.

On the other hand....going too hard into the corner, sliding and all that, your tyres will overheat, so you'll start losing grip, and start to slide around even more. Sometimes if my tyre pressures are a bit too high, my first few laps will be good, then I'm not able to improve anymore....but if I take one lap about 5 seconds off the pace, my next lap will be a flyer again, because the tyre temp came back down.

In karts its very noticable on a practice day on your first run or after a long break, your tyres will be cold and you'll be sliding around for the first few corners if you try to go as fast as you usually drive the corners. After about a lap the tyres will be in full operating temperature.

Another thing at the beginning of a practice day is that the brakes will feel like they don't bite, because they are also cold, it may take up to 3 laps before the brakes start to bite properly....after the first run of the day however it isn't a problem anymore, because they preserve the heat quite well.


All of this has of course little relevance to indoor/slick surface rental tracks and karts.

[RoyJurado]

Hi, Ive been visiting the forums for a while, but never posted but now i feel like i have to.

I have been karting for 7 years now im 34 years old , started in 100 cc ,and a couple of years ago switched to 125 Shifters, i run in a private club in mexico not to be bragging but what i consider one of the best facilities in the world, Porsche ,BMW, and Mercedes, use the track for driver education classes.

anyhow from my experience i can tell you that the way to go is 125 shifters theyre easier to mantain and technically complete, secuential shifting and brake balance are standard 32 hp is a given before tunning, the European ICC classes have stock engines with 42 Hp, ICC is getting big in North America.

this karts as 100cc ones, challenge you to be fine in the steering and applying of brakes and throttle, if youre brash theyll punish you with a few tenths. I read here about Physical condition, which jogging and running will help you a bit, on the track we have recorded 2.8 lateral Gs, 1.5 under accleration and i guess it was 2 under braking (once we ran a drag with a viper and the shifter was faster of course the distance was short, but up to 55mph we outran the big V10).but this machines will leave you as if Mike Tyson heard you talking about his Mom.;)

Many people will tell you that power to weight ratio is the closest thing to the Pro Series as F1 and Cart I have driven a fromula ford and i can tell you that the feeling is quite different although no comparison must be made between FF and karting. regarding indoor karting those mut be handled quite differently i wouldnt put them in the same clasas they reqre different technique

One word will describe the Shifter or 100cc icc karts good for 18000RPM and that is Violent. i do agree theyr Safe as intelligent you are.
I hope this helps, and go ahead and try no matter how you do youll feel like Michael , Mika or ____ (fill) and appreciate them More

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by Arnie
Actually the record is 3 seconds but thats another story which involves Crashing,being almost banned from the circuit..lol

I would like to hear the story...

So from what I am hearing 100cc direct-drive and 125cc shifters are the preferrable karts.

[100cc]

Originally posted by RoyJurado
[B
anyhow from my experience i can tell you that the way to go is 125 shifters theyre easier to mantain and technically complete [/B]

They may be the way to go.....but not at first!!! I know many karters have been scared off after going out and buying a 100cc reed-valve engine, and giving up karting pretty soon.

I've never driven a shifter before, there are a few ICC karts running out at the track though, and they did a demo run at the last race event (only 5 karts). I do think however that its better to START in a 100cc kart for sure. I've heard shifters don't teach you how to drive as well. Plus they're more physical so for the beginner I highly suggest staying away frmo them.

Unless of course you find somewhere that you can just try a shifter, and then if they're not too much to handle, go ahead. Initial costs are higher, and I'm pretty certain they cost more to maintain properly than a rotax-max, but again, I don't have experience with shifters, so don't take this as the bible.

The problem with shifters is that in some countries they don't have large turnouts for the races, and some countries don't even have classes for them. It seems that in america they are quite popular though.

Oh and btw....a direct drive 100cc FSA kart (with the appropriate driver) will be almost as fast or more than likely faster around a kart track than a 125cc shifter.

[100cc]

Originally posted by mhferrari

I would like to hear the story...

So from what I am hearing 100cc direct-drive and 125cc shifters are the preferrable karts.

100cc direct drive piston-port engines is probably a good place to start, these have slightly less power and are less pain on the maintenance part than the reeds. I've seen many jump straight into 100cc reed valve engines and they never really get the hang of it.

Then there are the 125cc electrical start, reed valve ~28hp karts, which I drive. Highly recommended for adults getting started in the sport, but they can also be a scare after only some rental karting. Laptime wise they're a bit slower (1-2 seconds?) than the ICA 100cc reed valve karts.

I don't agree with starting out in a 125cc shifter...as mentioned above.



OH, and welcome to the board RoyJurado.

[RoyJurado]

Nice to trade posts with you!

Youre right 125 shifters are too much if you want to start Karting (there are 80cc shifters too).

Anyhow I agree that taking it step by step is the best way to go , there are a lot of formulas so you too should trace your path and be aware that maintenance is expensive in some formulas as 100cc ICC rotary valves ,I dont know about reeds.
I agree that 125 shifters are a handfull, so get experience in a low power formula first. But I think that shifter classes will grow in the future as they provide the experience needed to step up to other formulas. and they also provide with more oportunity to take over as mistakes are more common, although some guys developing paddles as in F1 for karts design them on the basis of safety. so missing a shift doesnt become a hazzard.

Keep Posting
Roy

[mhferrari]

So, 100cc direct drive, piston-port karts are a good kart to start out with.

Thanks for all the help.

[karlth]

Originally posted by mhferrari
So, 100cc direct drive, piston-port karts are a good kart to start out with.

Thanks for all the help.

I would also consider Rotax karts. I most certainly do not have the experiance that 100cc has but I have driven both and the Rotax ones feel more professional with electronic starters, standard tyres and tamper proof engines.

In the end though it probably depends most on what type of competitions are run near you.

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by karlth
In the end though it probably depends most on what type of competitions are run near you.

It will ultimately come down to that.

I assume Rotax karts have rotary engines?

[cozworth]

hi,
Fantastic thread Absoluetly enjoying all u'r views on go-karting, please ,please don't stop ,
Fill in another "10" pages atleast

[BuzzingHornet]

Great thread, very timely as I started karting myself for the first time yesterday and could do with some tips Today I feel like i've been 10 rounds with Lennox Lewis Huge bruises in places I didn't even know I had! It was excellent though, and i'll be going again next week...

[mhferrari]

Originally posted by cozworth
hi,
Fantastic thread Absoluetly enjoying all u'r views on go-karting, please ,please don't stop ,
Fill in another "10" pages atleast

I want this to continue for awhile as well.

To the top!

[Portuguese Futebol]

Hi

Great thread, enjoying reading every bit of it.. Been karting lately every week at a local indoor kart center where the record is supposedly under 23 seconds. I however have been only able to get low 25's. Below is the track layout. The only thing I can think im not doing right is the braking. I brake on turn 1 right after the straight, and on turns 4 and 5 before the "chicane" and i brake on that last hair pin before going on the the straight. Should I be trying to brake less and force the car into the corners with more speed? Im afraid ill be skidding too much and therefore losing speed. Maybe i just need to be cleaner in what i do i dont know. Any help would be much appreciated.

John

[karlth]

Where are turns 1,4 and 5 on your diagram?

[RoyJurado]

John (portuguese Futebol) :
i did some indoor karting and found it very difficult to adapt the driving style to indoor, im not bad in racing so my conclusions i guess are valid. on very twisty layouts i found it difficult to be near the front once the layout was changed to a more fast circuit with long straights fast corners and a couple of hairpins i was always in contention and happened to win once from pole and lossing 7 places due to a spin but being able to recover. there was this guy in our group who always won or placed second, to me he seemed to be always sliding or driving tail out which in outdoor karting will kill your times. i heard him trying to explain his drivind style but could make nothing about it untill I found in other forum an explanation of a rally technique which i think makes sense. here we go ( i hope this is not complicating matters, and feel free to correct me, please do)
coming to a turn stay in the middle of the track steer oposite to the bend, brake hard then steer into the corner , car starts to slide lift brakes and apply throttle that will get you turning and sliding positioning yourself for the next straight.
one thing i have to add I never tried because it didnt feel natural to me to be sliding and whatever , but maybe somebody here will give us better tips for indoor. but dont forget to try regular karts.
Roy