144 replies to this topic

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Wirra
Some Elfin images from my old slides.

Hah!...you were probably shoulder to shoulder with me to take that shot Wirra!!

One of my fav viewing spots...

[Leo D]

I don't think it'd be to off topic to ask if anybody knows what Elfins might be at Phillip Island in March....

The above mentioned Bob Jane 400?
The Elfin Traco?
The Elfin ME5 ?
The Elfin MS7 ?

Formula 5000 wise...
MR 5 ?
MR 6?
MR 8?

I think it'd be great to see all of the above....

Not to mention.... Mono's.... 600's....Mallalas....300's.... 350's....

[eldougo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wirra
[B]Some Elfin images from my old slides. Also a print of Bevan Gidson going up the mountain - the saddest day I ever spent at a circuit.


One could not see that plate doing anything at all, way to small and not at an angle to create any pressure at all.

That was my first intro to how motor racing can be so sad, when you see it first hand.RIP Bevan.

[aaron]

I have stayed out of this thread waiting for some serious mention of the MS7, Garry Coopers personal favourite car. It was far and away the best of his sports cars both technically and with success on the track. Virtually unbeaten in it's career it was as dominant as the Matich SR4 had been. The design concept was also typical Cooper practical thinking being identical rear end to the MR6 F5000 with Repco-Holden. The car was still competitive nearly ten years after it was built with Stuart Kostera winning races in the national series against much newer opposition. The MR5 by comparison was a failure other than Niel's victory over Matich at the Farm. After that it just seemed to casue every driver to crash.

Paul Trevethan should have his Leyland engine MR6 at Phillip Island and maybe Bob Tweedie will have the MS7. The other F5000s will not be there as they are running at the A.G.P. Aaron.

[aaron]

That should be the ME5 was a failure. Short wheel base to perform at the farm. Liked to swap ends. A1

[KandA]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lambert
[QUOTE]Originally posted by graham allen
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by totoslot
[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=teal][B]I've searched the web but I only found b&w or low resolution colour pics of the Elfin sportscars. Can someone tell me where I can find some good colour pics of the following Elfin cars:

Graham
You may be interested in that I have colour slide photos of Haas' Elfin 300 as we completed building and testing. Building team: Garrie Cooper; Cliff Cooper; Fulvio Mattiolo; John Webb; Bob Mills; Bob Scott; Ron Lambert. [/QUOTE]

There's some names of some of this countries greatest craftsmen hardly anyone knew about. It would be interesting to find out where all these old Elfin men are. Webby is still going, I catch up with Fulvio..."George" who's still s funny as ever. "Mum" Mills has lived in the states for years. Jon Nob Porter passed away a few years ago. Greg Ferrall died late last year. My Dad, Dale obviously works with us at K and A. Harry Aust I see a lot of. I read about Cliff's 100th in the paper late last year. He still drives!
What about others....anyone?

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by KandA


There's some names of some of this countries greatest craftsmen hardly anyone knew about. It would be interesting to find out where all these old Elfin men are. Webby is still going, I catch up with Fulvio..."George" who's still s funny as ever. "Mum" Mills has lived in the states for years. Jon Nob Porter passed away a few years ago. Greg Ferrall died late last year. My Dad, Dale obviously works with us at K and A. Harry Aust I see a lot of. I read about Cliff's 100th in the paper late last year. He still drives!
What about others....anyone?

Mark, what about Brian Farquar in your Ex Elfin employees list, regards ,PN..

[Ray Bell]

I could mention the MS7, Aaron...

It lapped me several times, even once when it was unpainted. A great car, but to point out its competitiveness over that period is a bit of a beat-up. The sports car class went, as it often did, into doldrums during that time and anyone with a competitive car and the money to travel could have had a field day. I don't think Stuart would claim to have been in the Allen, Matich or Harvey class either.

And it's great looking again at Wirra's Warwick Farm photos of Niel Allen. Bob would love to have seen them.

[KandA]

Yeah Pete, Dad reckons Farquar is still around. But, well and truly retired. I was thinking last night and more ex employees come to mind. Greg Mobbs I see all the time as he sub contracts for us. Graham Scott has worked for us near on 20 years. His brother Pete, who was at Elfin briefly, lives in the States and was heavily involved in Indycars as a team director. He then went on to work for Swift in Calif. who were making Indycar chassis at one stage. Bob and John Murphy both live in Adelaide. Carlo Lunetta, who worked there when Don Elliot owned it, owns a carbon composite business here in Adelaide.
As a side note....old John McCormack drops in at K and A a couple of times a year to say g'day. Now I'm pretty sure it's his old MR5 he's restoring......

[aaron]

Ray, I take your point but have a close look at the fields Matich and Allen ran in. Very very VERY thin. rarely more than 2 competitive cars. When the group A sports cars kciked off again in about 1983 the MS7 was still competitive against some pretty handy machinery. Certainly the fields had far greater depth. The big banger sports car racing of the 60s is a bit of a myth other than a few isolated head to head races such as Harvey in the McLaren and Frank in the SR4. Don't get me wrong. I love these cars and wish them to all return to the track. Garry Cooper by the way was a much better driver than most others at that time aside from a few big names. Michelle, Moore, Woodward, et al were hardly big names. Not knocking just painting a realistic rather than rose coloured view. A1

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by KandA
Yeah Pete, Dad reckons Farquar is still around. But, well and truly retired. I was thinking last night and more ex employees come to mind. Greg Mobbs I see all the time as he sub contracts for us. Graham Scott has worked for us near on 20 years. His brother Pete, who was at Elfin briefly, lives in the States and was heavily involved in Indycars as a team director. He then went on to work for Swift in Calif. who were making Indycar chassis at one stage. Bob and John Murphy both live in Adelaide. Carlo Lunetta, who worked there when Don Elliot owned it, owns a carbon composite business here in Adelaide.
As a side note....old John McCormack drops in at K and A a couple of times a year to say g'day. Now I'm pretty sure it's his old MR5 he's restoring......

Mark he is definately still around, myself and my wife are still in contact with brian and his wife , brian is now heavily involved with building and flying model aircraft.....regards PN. ....

[Bondy]

Aaron,

While Phil Moore may have not been a big name ;) When he ran F5000 in 1974 in the Elfin MR5 he more than matched Garrie's lap times... I think its interesting re the Big names... Im a relatively young gun but i grew up on Motorsport, from age 5 i knew names such as Pat Crea, Peter Roach, Allan Gissing..... To me big names .... I'd call Aaron a fairly big name, afterall you've done a few things many of us can only dream about.....

[aaron]

I am certainly not knocking these guys and yes Phil handled the F5000 very well indeed, as you say very similar to Garry. Have a look at the autopics website and find the 1975 sports car Tourst trophy at Phillip Isalnd. A huge field of cars, far beyond anything mustered during the Matich dominated period. The sad truth is that there were rarely good contests with usually only 2 or maybe 3 cars capable of winning a race. Then again that's nearly true of current F1 so nothing's changed. A1

[Ray Bell]

What a sham that race was, Aaron...

The purpose of the event was to take the main sports car title away from Group A cars and hand it to ProdSports. But it was a huge field, as you say (even I was in there!) and some nice cars ran in it. A very mixed field too.

[giffo]

Not wanting to start a new thread just for this question

Does someone know what model Elfin these uprights were used?
They have ELFIN MP3C cast into the sides

Cheers

Giffo

[Ray Bell]

I'd be pretty sure they'd fit a wide range...

Possibly late Monos, 600s, 300s etc. Paul Hamilton should be able to tell us.

[Paul Hamilton]

The MP3C Elfin rear suspension uprights were originally fitted to most Type 600s other than the first few cars. Some early 600s (including my own) used a MP3B casting which was also used on late monos and 300's and had a different brake caliper mounting. The 600Cs and possibly the 600D used the MP3D casting which increased the size of the rear wheel bearings. What you see on many of these cars these days is not always the original equipment as the MP3C casting appears to have become the standard replacement part and has been 'retro fitted' to some 300s and early 600s.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by giffo
Not wanting to start a new thread just for this question

Does someone know what model Elfin these uprights were used?
They have ELFIN MP3C cast into the sides

Cheers

Giffo

Giffo...looks more like MPBC or MP8C to me

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by Paul Hamilton
The MP3C Elfin rear suspension uprights were originally fitted to most Type 600s other than the first few cars. Some early 600s (including my own) used a MP3B casting which was also used on late monos and 300's and had a different brake caliper mounting. The 600Cs and possibly the 600D used the MP3D casting which increased the size of the rear wheel bearings. What you see on many of these cars these days is not always the original equipment as the MP3C casting appears to have become the standard replacement part and has been 'retro fitted' to some 300s and early 600s.

what gearbox did early 600s run?

[Paul Hamilton]

[QUOTE] Lola5000 'what gearbox did early 600s use?'

My own car (chassis no 6801) was the first car built and was initially fitted with either a Mk5 or Mk8 Hewland but was subsequently upgraded to an FT200 the same as that fitted to the second and third cars (6802 - Garrie Cooper and 6803 - Maurie Quincy). The FT200 was always listed as an option in the 600 sales brochure and was fitted as original equipment to 12/13 of the 26 cars built (excluding Formula Fords). The rest of the cars and the Formula Fords all used the smaller Hewland transmission.

I don't know just when 6801 was upgraded as it was resident in SE Asia from 1968 to 1972 but it was probably sometime in 1970. The car was certainly equipped with the FT200 when I first saw it after Tony Maw brought it back to Australia in 1972. I have owned it since 1973 and, as you well know, it still has the FT200.

[Ellis French]

Some of these are posted on other threads but thought they may be better here together..



Mike Bruce at Symmons Plains



Noel Hurd Calder 8/66



Howard ex Hurd..Launceston...National Motor Museum


Matich Traco ..Longford


Jane.... Longford


Bruce Gowans in the Yellow Ling ex Geoghegan car


Jane Symmons Plains...Been corrected elsewhere and here..its the McClaren...........


Pare in the Elliot Elfin..Baskerville

[Ray Bell]

That's certainly a case of the Don Elliott stripes taken to excess, isn't it?

Good pics, some of which I've never seen the cars in those colours.

But is that Jane or Harvey?

[Ellis French]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
That's certainly a case of the Don Elliott stripes taken to excess, isn't it?

Good pics, some of which I've never seen the cars in those colours.

But is that Jane or Harvey?

Jane car I meant but yes its most likely Harvey

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

But is that Jane or Harvey?

Ray, I think you're voting on that be John Harvey..... I'd vote that way too..... don't ever remember Bob wearing a full face helmet...

Always enjoy your pics Ellis

[Lola5000]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Hamilton
[QUOTE] Lola5000 'what gearbox did early 600s use?'

My own car (chassis no 6801) was the first car built and was initially fitted with either a Mk5 or Mk8 Hewland but was subsequently upgraded to an FT200 the same as that fitted to the second and third cars (6802 - Garrie Cooper and 6803 - Maurie Quincy). The FT200 was always listed as an option in the 600 sales brochure and was fitted as original equipment to 12/13 of the 26 cars built (excluding Formula Fords). The rest of the cars and the Formula Fords all used the smaller Hewland transmission.

I don't know just when 6801 was upgraded as it was resident in SE Asia from 1968 to 1972 but it was probably sometime in 1970. The car was certainly equipped with the FT200 when I first saw it after Tony Maw brought it back to Australia in 1972. I have owned it since 1973 and, as you well know, it still has the FT200. [/QUOTE] it would be correct to say that as it was an option,that you can run the FT200 in your car.I often wondered why,now I fully understand why.

[bradbury west]

In the preamble to the Silverstone Intl Sports Car race , run on May 2 1964, Autosport mentions a Greville Edgerton in an Elfin Climax Mallala. Looking at the programme it was a 2 litre car entered under Tornado Cars (1963), team mate to John Bekaert in a 2 litre Attila. I am the first to admit I do not remember every driver from those days, but it seems unusual to have an Elfin over here then. Was he an Australian who brought his car over, like Paul Samuels with his 15 some years ago? What is the story? The race report does not mention whether he started or what his position was.
Roger Lund

[Paul Hamilton]

Greville Edgerton was a Melbourne based Aussie who took his Elfin Mallala (chassis no. S6317) to the UK to race in 1963/64. The car was originally built with a 116E Ford engine but appears to have acquired a 2 litre Climax engine later in its life. The Blanden/Catford Elfin book reports that it was ultimately disqualified from UK competition because the door dimensions did not comply with requirements although that seems hard to understand as Garrie would have built the car to comply with CAMS regulations which would surely have been in line with FIA requirements.

The Edgerton Mallala returned to Australia where it was sold to David Richardson and later Charlie Occhipinti but it now lives in New Zealand.

[terry mcgrath]

greville edgerton I know raced the Cooper Jaguar CJ/1/55 in Australia mainly victoria between feb and june 1963
It would be safe with a name like that to assume it is one and the same


In the preamble to the Silverstone Intl Sports Car race , run on May 2 1964, Autosport mentions a Greville Edgerton in an Elfin Climax Mallala. Looking at the programme it was a 2 litre car entered under Tornado Cars (1963), team mate to John Bekaert in a 2 litre Attila.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by terry mcgrath
greville edgerton I know raced the Cooper Jaguar CJ/1/55 in Australia mainly victoria between feb and june 1963
It would be safe with a name like that to assume it is one and the same

In the preamble to the Silverstone Intl Sports Car race , run on May 2 1964, Autosport mentions a Greville Edgerton in an Elfin Climax Mallala. Looking at the programme it was a 2 litre car entered under Tornado Cars (1963), team mate to John Bekaert in a 2 litre Attila.

Terry

It would confuse us less if you used the 'quote' button on the top of each post when applicable (as I have just done now)

[terry mcgrath]

Originally posted by David McKinney


Terry

It would confuse us less if you used the 'quote' button on the top of each post when applicable (as I have just done now)

oh goody now I know how that is done one day I may be even able to post a pic
thanks terry

[Lola5000]

Originally posted by terry mcgrath



oh goody now I know how that is done one day I may be even able to post a pic
thanks terry

any plans for another book?
Your Jaguar book over the years has given much pleasure.

[ellrosso]

Great pics Ellis, I was at all those meetings but unfortunately my pics did'nt come out quite as well as yours (on my old man's Hanimette rangefinder!). Was John Harvey in the McLaren for sure, not Jane. Interesting to see the ex Mildren, Ross Ambrose Rennmax Traco next to Gowans at Baskerville in Geoff McHugh's hands - his son Jamie now owns this car.
Regards, ellrosso

[Chris Frizell]

Hi all, I am new to this forum, but have been reading with interest all of the Nostalgia topics...Great stuff. As far as the Globe Four cam V8 went, did it have a flat plane crank, or the 90 degree crank...and can one of you Engineers tell me why a flat crank V8 would be preferred over a "normal" configuration? Apart from the sound it makes, I am assuming that the flat engine is essentially 2 fours with a common crank, so 2 cylinders would fire at the same time on opposing banks? I remember as a kid standing in the pits at AIR when the F5000's were in their heyday, and some of them were running flat engines...I remember watching pop rivets turing round of their own accord with the vibration...can't imagine it would have been much fun for the drivers, but they must have done it for a reason...

Cheers, Chris

[SJ Lambert]

There are some interesting photos of the South African McGillewie Elfin 300 here :

http://www.motoprint.co.za

Do a search for 'sports cars' and '1968'.

There's also one of a Elfin Mallala as well as a Holden Monaro!

Here's a good period shot of the first Elfin type 300 - (my avatar - can't figure out how to post it any other way!!!) - the Sth African one is the second one.

[cooper997]

A brief piece on Elfin sports cars filmed at this year's Phillip Island.
https://www.shannons...M:20170809:4573

Stephen

[Lee Nicolle]

Excellent.

[SJ Lambert]

Garrie Cooper is to be inducted into the Motorsport Hall of Fame on Thursday 21 March behind the Senna Stand at the AGP meeting, his children will be on hand to receive an award and two period Elfin Racing Cars will be on stage for the ceremony, my Mono MC6653 and Garrie’s second 600, the 600B 6802, campaigned these days by the Bennett family.

[Ray Bell]

I hope you enjoy a quick lap there, James...

 

There aren't many chances to get to run on that circuit.

[SJ Lambert]

I recorded Garrie’s induction ceremony here:

https://youtu.be/j_f...?feature=shared

[MarkBisset]

Many thanks James,

 

It would have been great to see that. A special day for your dad no doubt!

 

m

[SJ Lambert]

No worries Mark, yes, Dad was tickled pink over the whole affair. He would love to see a Garrie Cooper / Elfin Sports Cars Centre for Excellence established in South Australia in order to have the younger generation taught the skills to preserve and maintain and repair these jewels of cars that Garrie made in those halcyon days!

[Ray Bell]

I guess you mean quality reconstruction like this, James?

 

Major rebuild. Overcoming some butchery of this Elfin 600 in the past, a true craftsman is showing his skills building a new chassis for the famous car.

[SJ Lambert]

I’d be very interested in seeing forensic photos of the original butchered chassis

[Ray Bell]

Once you get past the terrible rust, James, you can see that the lower frame has been cut off and new tubes put in about three quarters of an inch higher than the original...

 

This is evident in the fact that the fuel tank hangs down below the frame tubes:

 

Rusty and ruined. The original chassis has had a very hard time. Fortunately the new chassis is being carefully put together by someone who's done new frames for several Elfin 600s.

[SJ Lambert]

John Smailes’ presentation on Garrie’s induction as appearing on the Motorsport Hall of Fame website:

https://youtu.be/MRl...Uz4yLBCLRajXJJV