44 replies to this topic

[Dunder]

Obviously Luca is the big boss but aside from that the Ferrari personel most often in the public domain are foreigners (Drivers, Todt, Brawn)

Of the remaining staff of the Scuderia, what percentage is Italian? Roughly.

[VAR1016]

Well the frequently neglected engine man (who deserves a major round of applause in my book) is Paolo Martinelli - a fine Irish name if ever I saw one!

PdeRL

[MrBreaker]

Dunder, I think a lot of the mechanics and engineers are Italian. I remeber a few years back MS said he was learning it since it was always spoken around him.

[Scudetto]

List of key Ferrari personnel from the Ferrari website:

Racing Management
General Director: Jean Todt
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Formula 1 Sporting Director: Stefano Domenicali
Ferrari Owners Racing Director: Claudio Berro
Motor Sport Press Officer: Luca Colajanni
Sponsorship Manager: Carlo Tazzioli

Track and Technical Management
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Chief Designer: Rory Byrne
Direzione Industriale: Mario Almondo
Electronics: Roberto Dalla
Chief Race Engineer: Ignazio Lunetta
Chief Test Team Engineer: Luigi Mazzola
Chief Mechanic: Nigel Stepney
Race Engineer Car no. 1: Luca Baldisserri
Race Engineer Car no. 2: Gabriele Delli Colli
Test Team Engineer: Massimo Atzori
Chief mechanic car no. 1: Federico Bertazzo
Chief mechanic car no. 2: Claudio Papaleo
Chief mechanic spare car: Francesco Uguzzoni, Ivano Barletta
Chief mechanic Test Team: Gianni Petterlini

Engine management
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Design and Development: Gilles Simon
Production and chief track engineer: Giuseppe D'Agostino
Customer Teams (Sauber) : Stefano Govoni
Engine research: Giorgio Quattrini

Looks pretty "Italian" to me.

[Todd]

Racing Management

General Director: Jean Todt
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Formula 1 Sporting Director: Stefano Domenicali
Maserati and Ferrari Owners Racing Director: Claudio Berro
Motor Sport Press Officer: Luca Colajanni
Sponsorship Manager: Carlo Tazzioli

Track and Technical Management

Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Chief Designer: Rory Byrne
Direzione Industriale: Mario Almondo
Electronics: Roberto Dalla
Chief Race Engineer: Ignazio Lunetta
Chief Test Team Engineer: Luigi Mazzola
Chief Mechanic: Nigel Stepney
Race Engineer Car no. 1: Luca Baldisserri
Race Engineer Car no. 2: Gabriele Delli Colli
Test Team Engineer: Massimo Atzori
Chief mechanic car no. 1: Federico Bertazzo
Chief mechanic car no. 2: Claudio Papaleo
Chief mechanic spare car: Francesco Uguzzoni, Ivano Barletta
Chief mechanic Test Team: Gianni Petterlini

Engine management

Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Design and Development: Gilles Simon ???
Production and chief track engineer: Giuseppe D'Agostino
Customer Teams (Sauber) : Stefano Govoni
Engine research: Giorgio Quattrini

[Scudetto]

Beat ya, Todd ;)

[Todd]

Scudetto,

Sure, but I labeled the likely Italian team personnel.

There are also about 200 supporting technicians at the factory who are mostly Italians.

[Scudetto]

Edit:

I have way too much time on my hands today. :

[Dunder]

Scudetto/Todd,

Thanks for the (colour coded) info.

I realised that the info would probably be on the Ferrari site, but didn't want to risk a PC crash or worse by visiting.;)

If we take into account the lower ranks then certainky it is going to be above 90pct - that's all I need to know. Thanks again.

[Portuguese Futebol]

Id venture to say that Ferrari is the team that most represents the country they are based in or they represent. Ferrari has more Italians than say williams/mcclaren have Englishmen, or Sauber has Swiss, or Renault has French... just a hypothesis

John

[baddog]

so much for the 'ferrari isnt italian anymore' myth that has been spread for years (not referring to original poster who was obviously asking a genuine question)

Shaun

[Mila]

perhaps Paolo Martinelli should change his name to "Pete Martin," then he might get the credit he deserves.;)

btw, during the Speed Channel coverage of the Hungarian GP last weekend, did anyone catch Matchett’s kudos of Stepney's achievements at Ferrari? reading between the lines, the upshot was that the Englishman, using innate talents, brought direction and order to, yes, those excitable and crazy Italians. egad.

[Scudetto]

Originally posted by Mila
btw, during the Speed Channel coverage of the Hungarian GP last weekend, did anyone catch Matchett’s kudos of Stepney's achievements at Ferrari? reading between the lines, the upshot was that the Englishman, using innate talents, brought direction and order to, yes, those excitable and crazy Italians. egad.

Stepney is the guy that hired Steve Matchett into Benetton. So you'd think he'd have kind words for the guy to whom he owes his F1 career. Not that he doesn't deserve it, of course.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Ferrari is as Italian as Sauber are Swiss and Mclaren are British. Renault are definately not French, nor are Toyota Japanese

[Todd]

Originally posted by Mila
perhaps Paolo Martinelli should change his name to "Pete Martin," then he might get the credit he deserves.;)

btw, during the Speed Channel coverage of the Hungarian GP last weekend, did anyone catch Matchett’s kudos of Stepney's achievements at Ferrari? reading between the lines, the upshot was that the Englishman, using innate talents, brought direction and order to, yes, those excitable and crazy Italians. egad.

Do you suppose that the English and South African members of the team get more coverage in the English speaking world partly because they give good interviews in English? There is no question that Rory and Ross are important to the team, but Paolo's role is certainly of similar importance. When you bring in Nigel Stepney's constant mention on the Speed Channel, there are certainly many Italians in comparably significant roles. Did Matchette single him out for praise because he wanted to link his own history as a mechanic on the #6 Benetton to the current success of Ferrari?

[baddog]

I would also say in fairness to at least itv-f1 that Martinelli receives lots of mentions from them on a regular basis. as much as any other engine guy.

Shaun

[eoin]

They are alot more italian than jordan are irish ;-)

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Ferrari is very It ali an and I will tell u why.
Just like the nation was happy to join the Euro so that Bruxelles beureucrats and ECB can take care of the 'big picture' as far as the fiscal and monetary policies are concerned, so that the average joe can concentrate on his small-medium business [the real strength of Italian economy], Ferari is happy to delegate the top, visible jobs to more competent foreign big-picture thinkers whence the remaining 95% of Italian workforce can, again, concentrate at their detailed tasks at hand. End result: Less politics, best of both worlds results (culture, mentality, expertise) and stability.
As for the drivers, well MS is MS, and the rest we all know about why no peninsular driver is there.
However, look out for Pantano in testing role. (and maybe more................)

[RedFever]

"However, look out for Pantano in testing role. (and maybe more................) "

Who cares about Pantano when Giancarlo Fisichella is the obvious choice? Damn it, they are waiting unitl he is too old to offer this guy a real drive. What a waste of natural talent.

[dworsham]

yeah - tis true

Originally posted by Scudetto
List of key Ferrari personnel from the Ferrari website:

Racing Management
General Director: Jean Todt
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Formula 1 Sporting Director: Stefano Domenicali
Ferrari Owners Racing Director: Claudio Berro
Motor Sport Press Officer: Luca Colajanni
Sponsorship Manager: Carlo Tazzioli

Track and Technical Management
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Chief Designer: Rory Byrne
Direzione Industriale: Mario Almondo
Electronics: Roberto Dalla
Chief Race Engineer: Ignazio Lunetta
Chief Test Team Engineer: Luigi Mazzola
Chief Mechanic: Nigel Stepney
Race Engineer Car no. 1: Luca Baldisserri
Race Engineer Car no. 2: Gabriele Delli Colli
Test Team Engineer: Massimo Atzori
Chief mechanic car no. 1: Federico Bertazzo
Chief mechanic car no. 2: Claudio Papaleo
Chief mechanic spare car: Francesco Uguzzoni, Ivano Barletta
Chief mechanic Test Team: Gianni Petterlini

Engine management
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Design and Development: Gilles Simon
Production and chief track engineer: Giuseppe D'Agostino
Customer Teams (Sauber) : Stefano Govoni
Engine research: Giorgio Quattrini

Looks pretty "Italian" to me.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Scudetto
List of key Ferrari personnel from the Ferrari website:

Racing Management
General Director: Jean Todt
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Formula 1 Sporting Director: Stefano Domenicali
Ferrari Owners Racing Director: Claudio Berro
Motor Sport Press Officer: Luca Colajanni
Sponsorship Manager: Carlo Tazzioli

Track and Technical Management
Technical Director: Ross Brawn
Chief Designer: Rory Byrne
Direzione Industriale: Mario Almondo
Electronics: Roberto Dalla
Chief Race Engineer: Ignazio Lunetta
Chief Test Team Engineer: Luigi Mazzola
Chief Mechanic: Nigel Stepney
Race Engineer Car no. 1: Luca Baldisserri
Race Engineer Car no. 2: Gabriele Delli Colli
Test Team Engineer: Massimo Atzori
Chief mechanic car no. 1: Federico Bertazzo
Chief mechanic car no. 2: Claudio Papaleo
Chief mechanic spare car: Francesco Uguzzoni, Ivano Barletta
Chief mechanic Test Team: Gianni Petterlini

Engine management
Engine Director: Paolo Martinelli
Design and Development: Gilles Simon
Production and chief track engineer: Giuseppe D'Agostino
Customer Teams (Sauber) : Stefano Govoni
Engine research: Giorgio Quattrini

Looks pretty "Italian" to me.

masterfully done as always Scudetto!

[pRy]

Having had the very lucky pleasure of visiting Maranello the town, the Ferrari factory at Maranello, I can say Ferrari is 200% Italian. You couldn't get more Italian if you tried.

[Melbourne Park]

Italian? Wel that doesn't tell the whole story IMO.

I suspect they are Northern Italian.

[palmas]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Italian? Wel that doesn't tell the whole story IMO.

I suspect they are Northern Italian.

No, Ferrari is Italian (south Italians are Marroccini -please check spelling)

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by baddog
I would also say in fairness to at least itv-f1 that Martinelli receives lots of mentions from them on a regular basis. as much as any other engine guy.

Shaun

If you can hear them above the bloody electronic drum-kit

PdeRL

[K-One]

Looks pretty Italian to me, apart from it's drivers.

When was last time that an Italian drove for Ferrari? Was it Larini ?

[pino]

Originally posted by palmas


No, Ferrari is Italian (south Italians are Marroccini -please check spelling)

hey palmas.....how do you know south Italians are Marrocchini? are you one of them?
I am a south Italian and I am proud of it !

[AMD]

Originally posted by palmas


No, Ferrari is Italian (south Italians are Marroccini -please check spelling)

((note for non-Italians: Marocchini = Moroccans))

I can't believe in this new century people still say these stupid things!!!!!!

Due to historical reasons, the north is richer than the south, and there is constant pressure from the north to assert superiority and independence through right-wing political organisations like Lega Nord.

However Ferrari is the red team, the national team, just like the Azzurri (blue) football team is the national team, one of the very few things which unites the country.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by AMD

((note for non-Italians: Marocchini = Moroccans))

I can't believe in this new century people still say these stupid things!!!!!!
...

Sorry I think I started it.

It just seems to me that Northern machine manufacturering Italians are very proud of being northern. They assume its much better being Northern.

Also the Alfasud was built in the South, and Fiat blaimed the Southerners, at least that was the excuse Australians were given for the way the car was built ... but anyway, that was last century, in fact it was almost flower power days ...

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Yeah, well I do not know where Palmas is from, but if he sure does not know what he is talking about.
Maybe a 12-year-old told him that southerners are known as Marrochini, total childish, made-up BS.
Sounds like a moronic non-Italian told him about that term.
Southerners have been called 'Terroni' [i.e. earth labourers/farmers], a deragotory remark which surfaced post-war, by the rest of the population, especially in the 50s and 60s when internal migration took rural people to seek work in the large cities.
Sections of the south [below Rome+Scicily) is economically backward, crime-ridden, and has been accused of dragging the nation's economy down in balance, especially when compared to prosperous north. Even Rome and its beuracracy has been accused by industrialists and politicians (and demagogues) of playing a part in Italy's slow growth over the years. Some people I knew considered Milan the capital. (Well its the financial centre).
And unfortunately, we have some mental giants from certain political parties which capitalize on this crap, and people acctually listen to them and belive them. The stupid flu has reached Italy i am afraid.

[AMD]

yeah Alfa Romeo was forced by the national government, a shareholder in the company, to open factories in the South to provide jobs and perhaps take advantage of lower wages, but nowadays this policy is called globalization where the design is done in one country and the manufacturing is done wherever costs are lowest.

[pino]

Still I don't understand what south and northern Italians have to do with F1.......
And Ferrai is Italian,and not northern italian!
Regards Pino!

[JDeRosa]

Originally posted by pino

I am a south Italian and I am proud of it !

right on bro....

[RedFever]

"Some people I knew considered Milan the capital."

Of course, they were from Milan................This the stupidest thing I have ever heard, nobody in Italy would ever even consider this apossibility, it would be like suggesting Paris is not the capital of France or London not the capital of the UK. In fact, there is absolutely no way Milan would become the capital of Italy even if Rome would be nuked and it disappeared tomorrow. Historically Milan has a claim to the status of capital of Italy slightly more valid than if Vienna considered offering itself for the position.

Not only Rome is the obvious choice because after all it is the foundation of the entire culture of the country (people speak Italian because the Romans spoke Latin, it is that simple....), but also it is a question of prestige, international prestige. Milan really had no role whatsoever in the world's past. And until 150 years ago it was still under Austrian control for the longest time.

If Rome would disappear, historically Turin would have the strongest claim to be the capital. In fact, it was the original capital of the finally created Kingdom of Italy from 1868 to 1869. The Savoia family (the King's family) was based there. Then, Cavour suggested they move the capital to Florence the following year, as an interim move toward the only obvious choice for a capital in Italy. Finally, in 1870, the Savoia allowed their soldiers to break through the walls of Rome defended by the Pope' s army and restored Rome to its natural position.

In their absurd sense of superiority toward the people of the South (being Roman, of course, I feel I am neither from the North nor from the South because Rome is indeed right in the middle geographically and because Rome's history trascends these silly local attitudes of some loser who voted for the Lega Lombarda), many people from Milan and the North in general show their utter ignorance and how much they have become parrots who simply repeat idiocies they heard from members of the Northern League (anyone who finished at least high school should find these people's statements illarious, as they are always historically wrong, showing a total lack of intelectual depth).

The South in fact was civilized a long time before the North was. And that is the truth. While Sicily, Calabria and parts of Puglia were under the control of Greece and enjoyed the cultural sophistication the Greeks brought over (think of Archimedes helping them defend themselves later from the Romans), the North was a wasteland. The Romans found tribes in the areas of today's Milan they called barbarians. Yet the Northern League tries to sell to the people of the North that they should feel superior because the originate from the Longobards....which, as I mentioned, were no different than the barbarians that lived in Switzerland, who were finally neutralized later by Caeser. The Romans eventually occupied both South and North due to their superior military and their extremely disciplined way of life (the orgies and debauceries and corrupt lifestyles are from a later peiod, the Imperial period, when too much wealth and power eventually corrupted the very fundaments of Roman domination - their dedication to work, family and the military), but obviously considered the ex-Greek colonies as peers, while despised the people of the North as uncivilized and unsophisticated. Never in Roman literature you find anyone referring to the people of the South as barbarians, a term freely utilized to describe the people of the Valle Padana, where Milan is located.

By the way, Milan was founded by Rome.....its original name was Mediolanum, nothing more than a Roman military camp. Therefore, even if banking, consulting, advertising, etc. are today centered in Milan, that city has its place as a center of business and commerce, but in terms of representing the country, it has no possible claim whatsoever historically.

[RedFever]

oh, and by the way, Maranello is not really part of the North anyway. Most of Emilia Romagna is after all part of il Centro (the center) which includes also Tuscany, Latium, Marche and Abbruzzi and Molise). If you are from Mantua, yes, you are from the North, but Bologna is less than 1 hour from Florence.................

[Todd]

Maybe the Romans ought to hire Jean Todt to run their army and see if he can't regain some of their historical significance for them.

[merlyn6]

Originally posted by AMD

((note for non-Italians: Marocchini = Moroccans))

Thanks for clearing that up, I thought it was a type of mushroom,

[RedFever]

"see if he can't regain some of their historical significance for them."

See...you miss the point. The Romans are the ones who don't give a damn about this. To them the issue is a.......non issue, a never been issue, a never will be issue. There is Rome or Rome. Historically, traditionally, internationally, politically, and diplomatically. Also, don't forget that 2 billion Catholics see in Rome the capital of their faith.......

The historical significance doesn't need to be regained, because it was never lost, as far as Italy is concerned. It is the same here in the US. It doesn't matter how many billion of dollars each day Wall Street or Madison Avenue produce............DC's role as the capital of the US is not measured in dollars and cents, but in its role in the country's past 2 1/2 centuries. Rome's role in Italy has been defined in 2 1/2 millenia.......


PS. All the three armed forces have their headquarters in Rome already.........no need for Todt.....besides Todt is simply a General, Montezemolo would be the one who would get the job ;)

[Todd]

Originally posted by RedFever
DC's role as the capital of the US is not measured in dollars and cents, but in its role in the country's past 2 1/2 centuries.

Washington DC isn't the capital because of anything other than convenience and compromise. Richmond, Virginia was the nation's capital until only 202 years ago. Then, Maryland and Virginia each coughed up some swamp land in a showy display of having a centrally located capital that wasn't contained in any one state. Considering how the nation has grown since, perhaps we should do the same thing again. New Orleans exemplifies the accessibility, integrity, temperance, and geological desirability that have characterized Washington as our capital. It would make for better middle school field trips too.

[RedFever]

Todd, you might have missed that in the "only 202" years since....the US went from the status of an unstable aggregate of ex-British colonies to the most powerful country in the world. Now, DC sure had more of a role in this than Cajun food, Blues and Mardi Gras had, I am pretty sure.....

[Melbourne Park]

One should not forget that the Ancient Roman is gone. The example of life and tradition of those times is not as close to what Australians, English people and North Americans live when compared to the life of the Germanic tribes.

Reading the Germanica shows how the general who defeated the English and warred against the German tribes, the so called Barbarians, wrote extensively of how although the German tribes lived a very different life style, their moral code and behaviour although very different was very sophisticed.

The Germanic tribes ethics are much of the ethics we now have, the English system of law stems straight from that ethics system. So too the suburban culture is very much how the Germans lived, and even our democratic and egalitiarian feelings stem from those so called "Barbarian" Germanic behaviours.

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by RedFever
"Some people I knew considered Milan the capital."

Of course, they were from Milan................This the stupidest thing I have ever heard, nobody in Italy would ever even consider this apossibility

Red Fever, you rightly consider this stupid (just as much as me), but some people really considered (and still to this day consider) Milan the capital of Italy. And this was 20 plus years ago, way before Bossi, his cronies, the Northern League and all the other BS which is recently consolidated itself in the current moronic and embarassing Italian governement. Sure, the people laying claims to Milan being 'capital' were fully aware that it is really Rome, but Rome as being the 'Seat of Government' and nothing more, a beureucratic center of technocrats, much like in the Netheralnds where the Hague is considered the seat of government, and Amsterdam the world-recognized premier city of Holland. The definition of 'capital' was very loose, and their main considerations were financial and industrial as well as Milan's proximity to the major trade and cultural centres of Europe, whereas Rome was more Meditereanean-centric. As much as absurd they sounded, they really did believe it.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
... The definition of 'capital' was very loose, and their main considerations were financial and industrial as well as Milan's proximity to the major trade and cultural centres of Europe, whereas Rome was more Meditereanean-centric. As much as absurd they sounded, they really did believe it.

I now that business people in Lugano, which is Switzerland, feel very connected to Milan. But not with finance, as the Swiss have their own effecient banking system ...;)

[RedFever]

"One should not forget that the Ancient Roman is gone. The example of life and tradition of those times is not as close to what Australians, English people and North Americans live when compared to the life of the Germanic tribes.

Reading the Germanica shows how the general who defeated the English and warred against the German tribes, the so called Barbarians, wrote extensively of how although the German tribes lived a very different life style, their moral code and behaviour although very different was very sophisticed.

The Germanic tribes ethics are much of the ethics we now have, the English system of law stems straight from that ethics system. So too the suburban culture is very much how the Germans lived, and even our democratic and egalitiarian feelings stem from those so called "Barbarian" Germanic behaviours."


MP, blah, blah, blah, OK, so maybe I must have offended your Germanic (?) or British ?) heritage.
But did you actually read my post????? Are you implying that the Longobards that lived in the Pianura Padana, where Mila is today, actually were German???? because sorry to break it to you, but they weren't. They were the local tribes who lived in the northern part of the Italian peninsula. They spoke different languages and had different habits than the German tribes to refer to. I am sorry, i was talking about Northern Italy and Rome. How did you read Germany and Australia into this???????????????????????

Also, you show poor understanding of Europe and particularly of Italy. Australia is not too close, so you might want to visit a country for sometime before discussing it. It is wrong for you to say "ancient Rome is gone". Yes, as an organized empire it is gone. Just like the British Empire is gone. Yet, both, long after their demise, have left indellible signs and influences in their countries. Rome shaped Italian culture, language, architecture, habits, etc. Italy is in many ways what it is only because of Rome. Just as you imply that British law is derived from German ethics, Roman law is the basis of Italian and French law.

Also, since you seem to enjoy reading historical accounts, maybe you should read Caesar's words from his own writings, such as De Bello Gallico (On the War of Gaul), were he is very clear of his feelings of the Celtic tribes, whether Gauls, Germans or British. WHile he often praises some of their nobles, which were his allies, it is very easy to notice how Caesar feels they are not even remotely in the same league in terms of intectual and cultural sophistication. He often shows to lose his temper, despite all his attempts to minimize violent and dangerous conflicts, mostly because of the typical characteristic he despises about these "barbaric" people, who are generally unreliable, easily pray of violent and irrational emotions (Caesar mentions this often and explains how that made it easier for him to actually subjucate them, as they reliedon emotions rather than rational planning), therefore easily switching alliances and course of action depending on the latest events.

Caesar goes further in stating that the Germanic tribes across the Rhine are actually even less sophisticated and more violent and ruthless than the tibes he dominated in Gauls. This is simply because you brough it up. In reality, my discussion had absolutely nothing to do with Germany (the tribes in Switzerland I mentioned......well, by the civilazation standards of ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome, well, they were considered barbarians. It is no mistery German tribes still used animal skins to dress, had many nomadic characteristics, barely utilized agriculture, were incapable of producing any art that has influenced the world, etc.).

My original discussion didn't involve Germany at all. It was limited to Italy and the sense of superiority of hte Northern section. I was simply saying how absurd it was. Historically, Rome and Florence and Venice are the only cities which reached powerful status (Venice controlled half the Mediterranean at some point...), not Milan. Turin had the King and Turin is North, but before the Savoy emerged in the 18th century (recently, considering Italy has 2 1/2 millenia of history) also that city had only played minor roles.

Hisotrically, artistically, militarily and polically, Rome, then Florence and Venice had an impact. Milan simply has banks, corporate HQs and fashion agencies. How does that make it a capital? so, Frankfurt should be Germany's capital? I don't get it.

Also, let's not forget, but I would say that at least 50% of the Italian intelligentia in the past 2 centuries comes from the South. Some of the best writers, poets, and political minds actually were born in the South. Pirandello, Verga, etc. are some of the most illustrious and well known Italian minds in the past 2 centuries and they came from Sicily, not Milan.......

[Williams]

OK, I think the original question has been answered and the topic has gone far beyond the motorsports realm. Therefore this thread is now closed.