23 replies to this topic

[Pacific]

There is actually a rumor going around the Pedro Diniz could end up at Minardi right now. His performances so far this season at Sauber have been somewhat lackluster, especially during the races. But, Diniz isn't a bad F1 driver and brings $9 million dollars with Parmalat, something Minardi could use.

If Wurz gets the boot after this season at Benetton (nearly guaranteed) Wurz could always take his sponsorship with him to Sauber (which isn't as much as Diniz' but oh well) if Diniz gets the boot.

It's plausible I suppose. Having an Austrian race for Sauber would be like old times...okay, so Wurz isn't as good as Wendlinger was before his Monaco accident, but still...

Just thought I'd pass that along.

[Turbo]

Hmmm, interesting rumor. I personally suspect that Diniz will be able to keep his Sauber seat or find a better ride than Minardi. He's a decent driver and his bank account won't hurt his chances. There's likely to be some turnover this year, so he will a shot at other seats.

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F1 should not be a parade! Bring back slicks and reduce downforce!

[Mrv]

There is a rumor going around that I will be taking Rubens seat at Ferrari next year. Rubens is going to Bar to replace JV!!!!

[Nathan]

Mrv I heard that rumor too. MS phoned me, hes pretty worried about it

I think if Minardi can get a good engine he should go. I would! He would bring in 20% of their total budget. Imagine what Giancarlo could do with that!!! Plus being Brazilian he would be good for sponsor exposure and maybe bring in more. Plus doesnt Telefonica want a Brazilian driver? Wow, maybe this is true....

[Dudley]

Sounds good to me. Diniz is actually a pretty good development driver, and he'd be able to give Gene a far better benchmark than he's had thus far.

The sponsership from Parmalat would be damned handy, and it'd help keep Telefonica.

It might also, although this is a longer shot, help convince Ferrari to switch to Minardi (in fact going into Frans conspiracy theory levels of likelihood here) they might have already swiped Ferrari and want to get Diniz to help them with it, and to help pay

This isn't quite as silly as it sounds, last year Diniz was rumoured at one point to be Irv's replacement alongside Schumi.

[vroom-vroom]

What that snail Diniz needs is a kick in the arse out of F1!

[westendorf]

I like Minardi and I like P. Diniz as well. Sounds good to me now all they need is the secondo Ferrari motors, that team could move up the grid. The chassis isn't all that bad IMO. ciao, GFW
PS anybody watching the Giro d'Italia?

[Pacific]

Yeah, when I read this I was thinking the same thing as all of you. Many of you have heard me talk about how if Minardi gets the chance to go for Zonta, jump at it, but Diniz brings in $9 million dollars and if AMT (Asian Motor Techniques) buys the Peugeot motor, works with Toyota a bit, then that engine could actually be somewhat decent. Diniz seems to be stagnating at Sauber a bit right now. I'm sure Minardi would love to have him.

Of course, that'd mean Gaston Mazzacane would probably end up test/reserve driver. (You couldn't just boot Gaston out of the team, he's been too good for that.)

Of course, Marc Gene is at Minardi for a while with Telefonica. Unless Telefonica moves to Benetton/Renault. But somehow I doubt that. Telefonica can keep more options open staying involved with Minardi. They would never be able to buy out Renault whenever they wanted. I mean, if Minardi gets AMT's, and AMT works with Toyota, then maybe Toyota would give Minardi a customer Toyota engine or something at a reduced price or something. That'd be a start for Minardi. I mean, if a customer Ferrari engine is available, well, of course jump at that, but that costs $20 million dollars. That's money Minardi doesn't have. Sauber with Diniz has Petronas, Red Bull, Parmalat, and Malaysia as major sponsors.

I'm somewhat hopeful this rumor comes true. Diniz would be a good measuring stick for Marc Gene too. (I would predict Gene would beat him. Some of that would be due to familiarity with the Minardi team, but I truly think Gene has more talent.)

[Nathan]

Well how much does Telefonica pay for the Ford? If Diniz brings say $10-million, Im sure that the Ford engine costs about $10-million+ as well. Not to mention Im sure Telefonica would pay a little more for a Ferrari engine and a very decent Brazilian driver.

[boru]

Sadly there may not be a Minardi team next season unless they get a decent sponsor. Big rumours flying around that Telefonica will pull out. With a decent engine the Minardi would do well with their chassis, and if they got last years ferrari engine instead of sauber it would probably pull in decent sponsorship.

Minardi are good for F1. Half the ideas on the top cars chassis' come from the lower teams.

[brum]

This Diniz to Minardi rumour is well off the mark.

We all know that Diniz is not the best driver out there but he does have deep pockets.

What I remember of when he signed for Sauber was that there are other teams who wanted him as well.

Rather than Diniz being demoted to Minardi there will be alot of other teams interested - Prost, BAR, Benetton, Sauber (again) and Arrows as well as Minardi.

Minardi have always had a very small budget in the past and they will be able to survive if Telefonica do pull out as is being suggested.

[nigel red5]

Has nobody thought that marc gene could be on his way to the sauber seat??

he has buckets of talent and at the moment seems to be wasted in the minardi.
fair enough, last year he did`nt know the tracks, but this year has done an excellent job and has outqualified gaston by about a second each time.

[miniman]

If Telefonica bows out Diniz should perhaps buy Minardi, what job security!

[RedFever]

Diniz is stagnating at Sauber???? he is actually having his ass kicked left and right by Mika Salo!!!!!! stagnant is quite an understatement!!!!! Panis deserves a seat more than Pedro and so does Burti

[Jackdaw]

RedFever, I was thinking similarly....getting Diniz might actually be a step down in driver quality for Minardi.

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Jackdaw

"If it wasn't for disappointments, I wouldn't have any appointments"

[Pacific]

Getting Diniz and his $9 million, who is South American and I'd say as good as Mazzacane is NOT a step down. And if Telefonica is going to leave Minardi after 2001 as rumored, they're going to need all they can get.

[This message has been edited by Pacific (edited 06-01-2000).]

[RedFever]

No, he is not worst than Mazzacane, although I prefer Gene to Diniz. But I can come up with a list of 7-8 drivers that deserve a seat before Diniz. Of course they don't have a $9 mil check in their pocket......

[Pacific]

I think Gene's seat should be stable even without Telefonica. He's proven he has skill.

[vroom-vroom]

It's really amazing. There are literally tons of very good South American drivers out there, yet, in F1, supposedly the pinacle of all series, we have Diniz (!!), Mazzacane (!!!), Barrichello, and Zonta. The first two are rich losers who will never win a GP; Barrichello is a good #2 at Ferrari, and Zonta is shaky...What's wrong with this picture?

[Gruff]

Diniz/Salo Analysis (data source FORIX)
D - Diniz's performance
S - Salo's performance
FL - Fastest lap
QUAL - Qualifying posisition
RACE - Race classification

< - worse relative performance
> - better relative performance
== - approximate equal performance
<> - incomparible performance (eg due to DNS, DNF etc)
DNF - did not finish (not own fault)
X - did not finish (alleged own fault)

Australia:
QUAL D=19, S=10, D<S
FL D=6, S=17, D>S
RACE D=DNF, S=DNF, D==S
OVERALL D==S

Brazil:
QUAL D=20, S=22, D<>S
FL D=DNS, S=DNS, D<>S
RACE D=DNS, S=DNS, D<>S
OVERALL D<>S

San Marino:
QUAL D=10, S=12, D>S
FL D=5, S=7, D>S
RACE D=8, S=6, D<S
OVERALL D>S

Britain:
QUAL D=13, S=18, D>S
FL D=12. S=15, D>S
RACE D=11, S=8, D<S
OVERALL D>S

Spain:
QUAL D=15, S=12, D<S
FL D=22, S=9, D<S
RACE D=X, S=7, D<S
OVERALL D<S

Europe:
QUAL D=15, S=19, D>S
FL D=19. S=15, D<S
RACE D=7, S=DNF, D<>S
OVERALL D==S

Source: www.forix.com

Total:
D<S = 1
D==S = 2
D<>S = 1
D>S =2

To say Diniz is having his arse kicked, RedFever, seems some distance from the truth. Pre-season testing times were competitive and similar from both drivers, and by analysis of the statistics, I's say on balance, Diniz and Salo are about the same.
OK, Diniz has had one spin off, and Salo has had one points finish, but Diniz has been more consistent, and almost consistently slightly better than Salo.

Now, you may say that this does not mean Diniz is any good. This could only be logical if you say Salo isn't any good. Whereas few (except Diniz enthusiasts) may argue against the former, many would disagree if you said Salo wasn't any good.
Remember his (effective) debut for Tyrell in Brazil'95? He got into 3rd place on the track - not via a good strategy. He should have won in Germany'99, so I hope you'd agree that he cannot be classed as 'not any good'. Also, when at Arrows, Salo and Diniz were fairly evenly matched, perhaps with Salo better than Diniz, but by no means 'kicking his ass left right and centre'.

Diniz was a genuine contender for the #2 Ferrari seat, second to Barrichello. His wet weather skills are much better than average, particularly in the extreme wet weather races:
Spain 96 (6h)
Belgium 97 (7th) ran 3rd during rain, but pace slowed after rain stopped
Belgium 98 (5th)

Please don't preach that crap about Diniz being without ability. Personally I'd only rate the following current F1 drivers better than him:
M Schum, R Schum, G Fisi, J Ville, M Hakk, HH Frent
And about the same as:
R Barri, M Salo, D Coulth, J Trulli
And better than all the rest.

[vroom-vroom]

Gruff, no offense, but did you watch the last GP? Did you count how many times the great Diniz went off the track at the Nurburgring? It was ridiculous. He's no better than average under rain or shine...just were ANY average F3 or F3000 racer would be after his endless training in F1. I tell you what : He better be average after all the opportunities he's had. He must be getting close to 100 F1 starts by now! IMO, guys like him and Mazzacane are a complete disgrace to F1. If Diniz had an ounce of personality, or just - I don't know -...something, ANYTHING!...., he might have entertainment value, but no, NOTHING, a complete zero in all departments (well except at the bank)...and yet this guy manages to have fans. WHY?

[Gruff]

You missed the point. Diniz has raced as well (or possibly better?) than Salo, who is very highly rated by most involved with F1.

Diniz is by no means a disgrace to F1. All who have worked with him eg Tom Walkinshaw (rather than against him) have commended him on his merits - particularly his technical input, speed of learning and car development skills.

As for the rich kid tag, although I may be wrong on this one, it is my belief that Diniz was to leave Sauber (possibly to replace Wurz) were it not for a new deal in which he was paid more as a salary from Sauber than he brought in as personal sponsorship.

That may sound like little achievement, but consider that Barrichello (when at Stewart) brought about £5million to his team from his personal sponsors. Barrichello, of course, got a wage, from Stewart, but it was effectively his own (personal sponsors') money being given to him to race at Stewart, just having gone via Stewart's bank account. (According to Autosport magazine about 2 years ago). The same can be said of Diniz, and most probably the majority of drivers out there; drivers wouldn't get the wage they do, were it not for the sponsors they personally bring to the team, on the condition that that driver races for them.

As for the last race: Diniz slid off twice, once on his own accord, once trying to avoid someone else (Salo, I think). If you saw the ITV (UK) coverage (sorry, I don't know where you're from), the commentators got at least one part wrong, claiming Diniz was off "again", when it was simply a replay from another angle.

[vroom-vroom]

Gruff, I didn't miss your point. Salo, by all accounts, is and has been a midfield racer ever since he has been in F1 (OK, he had a few flashes of brilliance). What you showed is that, yes, Diniz and Salo seem evenly matched. Unfortunately for him, after showing great promise, Salo has been on a steadily decline since his days at Tyrrell (OK, he had a good race last year for Ferrari), but by and large, he has failed to meet expectations. So, I sumise that instead of Diniz showing great speed in matching Salo, we are watching Salo's decline or stagnation. As far as self-serving statements from Sauber (and Walkinshaw) about the great skills of their pay-driver Diniz and his alleged 'salary', excuse me, but I need to see that contract with my own eyes.

[Gruff]

It's taken a while to find, but here's what Peter Sauber said in 1998 when signing Diniz:
see http://www.atlasf1.c...ws/1998/902.htm

I can't find the statement regarding Diniz's contract. I think it was on www.itv-f1.com, but I can't figure out their archive system, unless it simply doesn't go back far enough. According to AtlasF1 nes, Diniz resigned about 10th/11th Oct 1999, so if you can understand itv-f1.com's archive, then that's the sort of date you'll need to use.

Re Salo
I doubt many would agree that Salo is an average driver. OK, he's no Schumacher (either) or Fisichella or even Hakkinen, but he's a match for the best of the rest, as is Diniz.

Except for Hungary, Salo performed comparibly against Irvine, who himself is no Schumacher, is still highly rated amongst critics. It is always difficult judge drivers on skill and then to say who is the best, because there are too many variables to consider. But overall, I think you can make a reasonable judgement in, small groups of similar drivers, and I believe that Diniz's group is an good quality group of current/(recent) drvers:


BEST to WORST (each group in no particular order):
Group 1: M Schumacher
Group 2: R Schumacher/Fisichella
Group 3: Hakkinen(3?)/Villeneuve/Frentzen
group 4: Diniz(5?)/Salo/Alesi/Irvine/Trulli
group 5:Coulthard(4?)/Barrichello/ (Panis)/Button
group 7: Verstappen/dlRosa/(Magnusson)/ (Tuero)/(Nakano)
group 8: Gene/(Badoer)/Zonta/(Zanardi)/ (Hill)Heidfeld
group 9: (Takagi)/Herbert/Mazzacane/Wurz