33 replies to this topic

[Hakk]

This is what Peter Said after Hungarian GP.

He also said that"We need points and if Heinz-Harald Frenzen can help us getting them more than Massa, I am ready to hire two german drivers."

What kind of deal does Massa excatly have with Sauber? Is Peter just paying to get Massa continue with cheaper price? Or does he really want Frenzen to join Sauber?

[Ghostrider]

The funny thing with this is that Massa was way closer to points than Heidfeld at Hungary.

I think Massa has a long-term deal with Sauber, where both sides can terminate the contract after each season.

Frentzen would maybe be good for Sauber, but he comes at a much bigger price.

[312 PB]

Originally posted by Hakk
This is what Peter Said after Hungarian GP.

He also said that"We need points and if Heinz-Harald Frenzen can help us getting them more than Massa, I am ready to hire two german drivers."

source ?

[gerry nassar]

Interesting! So where is Frentzen going?? Toyota? Jordan? OR SAUBER!!???

[lanius]

Originally posted by 312 PB


source ?

http://verkkolehti.t...0&f1=2002-08-22

It's in finnish...

[maclaren]

I think it is weird comment after Hungaroring - Massa outraced NH easily. It took Massa a bit longer than Kimi to get to grips with F1 car, but now he is there almost equally with NH ...

I'm not sure Frentzen would be good choice for Sauber, sure he is fast but also makes way too many mistakes considering his experience ...

[312 PB]

thx

seems sauber has
little respect for massa
and wouldn't mind
another 20 mil for a rookie driver

[100cc]

The title of the article is in fact: "Peter Sauber admits that he did not find another Riakkonen."

I vaguely remember Peter saying at the beginning of the season or during testing that Massa is better than Raikkonen. It now seems it was just because Peter got a bit pissed off at Raikkonen and talked badly about him when he was leaving the team, and stopped testing for them....now he's gotten over that it seems.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by 100cc
The title of the article is in fact: "Peter Sauber admits that he did not find another Riakkonen."

I vaguely remember Peter saying at the beginning of the season or during testing that Massa is better than Raikkonen. It now seems it was just because Peter got a bit pissed off at Raikkonen and talked badly about him when he was leaving the team, and stopped testing for them....now he's gotten over that it seems.

I think you are correct, Peter praised Massa a lot before season, but since then he has been less appreciative. A bit naive of Sauber to think it is so easy to find new talent. You win some, you lose some. I am not saying Massa isn't talented, but he has crashed a few times and maybe missed some points he should have taken, but that is the price you have to pay for going for a more inexperienced guy. Will be interesting to see what happens at Spa, if Massa is ahead of Nick there we could say that Massa has getting the grips on Nick.

[coyoteBR]

Remember Peter Sauber asked Nick and Massa to switch positions a coulpe of GP's ago. That means both of his drivers are very close in points and results.



Seems to me Peter Sauber is "frying" Massa. I don't know how this process is called on your country, but in Brazil we use "fry": to make someone unconfortable at the job, putting lot's of pressure on him, taking the responsabilities from him untill the person decides to quit.

A pity. If Frank Williams had this attitude, Montoya would not have survived his first year of williams. The same goes to practically every talented driver around.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by coyoteBR
Remember Peter Sauber asked Nick and Massa to switch positions a coulpe of GP's ago. That means both of his drivers are very close in points and results.
Seems to me Peter Sauber is "frying" Massa. I don't know how this process is called on your country, but in Brazil we use "fry": to make someone unconfortable at the job, putting lot's of pressure on him, taking the responsabilities from him untill the person decides to quit.
A pity. If Frank Williams had this attitude, Montoya would not have survived his first year of williams. The same goes to practically every talented driver around.

If Peter Sauber wants to make Massa more "uncomfortable" in an attempt to focus make him more focused, I can understand it a little.

But Sauber has the option to kick him out after the season, so the only reason otherwise to "fry" Massa, is to make him quit the team during the season. And that seems like kind of a long-shot doesn't it?

[giddyup409]

Sauber should be "frying" (term we use in my native language as well) Heidfeld. Against 2 rookie drivers he hasn't shown expected dominance or #1 status. However, supplements from other sources might be helping Nick avoiding the "frying" from Peter, dunno.

[Viktor]

As I sad in a different topic after the last 2 or 3 races I think it woth me a viser move to have Frentzen and Massa in the team. Massa has the potensial to be a very good driver and Frentzen is a safe point scorer.

/Viktor

[Menace]

Originally posted by Viktor
As I sad in a different topic after the last 2 or 3 races I think it woth me a viser move to have Frentzen and Massa in the team. Massa has the potensial to be a very good driver and Frentzen is a safe point scorer.

/Viktor

So Heidfeld has no potential then? That's bit tough if you ask from me...I think Sauber should keep both Heidfeld and Massa, because Heidfeld hasn't put a foot wrong (he is fast and reliable) and Massa has finally come in to grips with his car (I still think he entered this level of racing too early though).

[Hakk]

So Heidfeld has no potential then?

I think we have seen Heidfelds potential by now. This is his 3rd season in F1 as a race driver and before that he has been a test driver for Mclaren. In his first season he was totally outpaced by Jean Alesi. Nowhere near at the same level than Raikkonen was in first year or even Massa in his first year. In his second year he was more experienced than Raikkonen and still Raikkonen was the one who made the headlines and in my oppinion Raikkonen's performances were also better. Now this year Massa and Heidfeld have been pretty much equal. So why it is that 2 years now in a row a totally unexperienced team mate is as fast as Heidfeld or even faster?

[Sergino]

Originally posted by Hakk

I think we have seen Heidfelds potential by now. This is his 3rd season in F1 as a race driver and before that he has been a test driver for Mclaren. In his first season he was totally outpaced by Jean Alesi. Nowhere near at the same level than Raikkonen was in first year or even Massa in his first year. In his second year he was more experienced than Raikkonen and still Raikkonen was the one who made the headlines and in my oppinion Raikkonen's performances were also better. Now this year Massa and Heidfeld have been pretty much equal. So why it is that 2 years now in a row a totally unexperienced team mate is as fast as Heidfeld or even faster?

Absolutely right! And I don't think that P. Sauber is a manager who treats his driver in the best way. he should see Massa's talent, and be happy with him, not putting pressure on his shoulders in his first year. It's interesting how much patience he had to Kimi, and how little to Massa.

[molive]

Funny thing a Finnish rag talking about how that new Brazilian boy is not as good as their Finnish boy...;)

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Hakk

I think we have seen Heidfelds potential by now. This is his 3rd season in F1 as a race driver and before that he has been a test driver for Mclaren. In his first season he was totally outpaced by Jean Alesi. Nowhere near at the same level than Raikkonen was in first year or even Massa in his first year. In his second year he was more experienced than Raikkonen and still Raikkonen was the one who made the headlines and in my oppinion Raikkonen's performances were also better. Now this year Massa and Heidfeld have been pretty much equal. So why it is that 2 years now in a row a totally unexperienced team mate is as fast as Heidfeld or even faster?

I wouldn't say Heidfeld was totally outpaced by Alesi, he was outqualified by what I recall a relatively small margin. Both Raikkonen and Heidfeld were flattered last year by the Sauber's competitiveness. Heidfeld has been faster than Massa this year, but the last couple of races Massa has raised his game. Unless Heidfeld can answer back in the upcoming races, I think his stock will fall a little.

[Arnie]

Originally posted by Menace


So That's bit tough if you ask from me...I think Sauber should keep both Heidfeld and Massa, because Heidfeld hasn't put a foot wrong (he is fast and reliable)

Yeah right..lol
how about Austria when he lost his nerves and rammed Sato
Australia where he rammed most of the pack,
In 2001 I think noone had so much collisions as Heidi.
Heidi has peaked already.He had his change and failed.Admit it,Heidi is a dead meat and Sauber should dump him for HHF.

Go back to Testing Heidi,your time is up...lol

[Oho]

Originally posted by molive
Funny thing a Finnish rag talking about how that new Brazilian boy is not as good as their Finnish boy...;)

Ave !!

What ever, a certain rather undisputable fact however seems to be that the people who put their money where their mouth is are not quite as warm toward Massa as they were toward Räikkönen. Nor was Kimi quite as brash when he entered the sport. Dont recall Kimi lining himself up for a Ferrari seat before race one like Massa. Massa may have performed just as well if not better than Räikkönen but he certainly has not lived up to at least partially self inflicted hype.

Of course Räikkönen was extremly lucky to have made his impression just as a top team seat became available. Doesn't happen every year, never happened to Fisichella thus far, perhaps never will.

- Oho -

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
I wouldn't say Heidfeld was totally outpaced by Alesi, he was outqualified by what I recall a relatively small margin. Both Raikkonen and Heidfeld were flattered last year by the Sauber's competitiveness.

I don't think Sauber of 2001 was significantly better than 2000. Main improvement from 2000 to 2001 were drivers. Diniz and Salo were not fast enough and Diniz couldn't even finish races

[TT6]

Originally posted by molive
Funny thing a Finnish rag talking about how that new Brazilian boy is not as good as their Finnish boy...;)

I thought Peter Sauber is Swiss (the one who implies his new Brazilian boy isn't as good as his old Finnish boy...)

[TT6]

Originally posted by Sergino

It's interesting how much patience he had to Kimi, and how little to Massa.

I don't recall Kimi destroying so many Sauber F1 cars that Felipe has.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by TT6
I don't recall Kimi destroying so many Sauber F1 cars that Felipe has.

.... every spin Massa made is being very scary for Peter ('s budget).... although Massa has not spun so much recently ....

[Oho]

Originally posted by Sergino

It's interesting how much patience he had to Kimi, and how little to Massa.

Ave !!

Perhaps Massa rubbed Sauber in wrong direction when he announced his desire to be out of Sauber and at Ferrari by half way into the season. Serious or not, it was not exactly prudent.

- Oho -

[Melbourne Park]

Peter Sauber and the wasn't the only one, thought at the very beginning, that KR was very special.

As to his "frying" of Massa, who knows why he is really doing that. For instance if the had of done some of that public attack type stuff to KR, who knows, KR might still be with him now ... his public acknowledgement of how his gamble paid of in spades, may have significantly aided the loss of KR ...

[LuckyStrike1]

Bye bye Massa

Hello and welcome back, Frentzen

[speedmaster]

Originally posted by molive
Funny thing a Finnish rag talking about how that new Brazilian boy is not as good as their Finnish boy...;)

short, concise and right on the point..... Molive

[Dudley]

In his first season he was totally outpaced by Jean Alesi

Yet beat him in the championship.

how about Austria when he lost his nerves and rammed Sato

You're an idiot.

[Nasty McBastard]

Originally posted by Hakk

I think we have seen Heidfelds potential by now. This is his 3rd season in F1 as a race driver and before that he has been a test driver for Mclaren. In his first season he was totally outpaced by Jean Alesi. Nowhere near at the same level than Raikkonen was in first year or even Massa in his first year. In his second year he was more experienced than Raikkonen and still Raikkonen was the one who made the headlines and in my oppinion Raikkonen's performances were also better. Now this year Massa and Heidfeld have been pretty much equal. So why it is that 2 years now in a row a totally unexperienced team mate is as fast as Heidfeld or even faster?

it was 9-8 alesi v heidfeld in qual in 2000.

considering jean had been around for a decade and it was nicks 1st year id hardly call that 'totaly outpaced'.... i seem to remember a few races where nick was showing jean the way too... austria for one...was a 'last of the late brakers' effort from jean on nick that ****ed them both up.

considering nick was in a prost and kimi in a sauber for their first season its also pretty hard to compare.

and sure, kimi got all the headlines in their season together, but hey, so did monty in year 1 at williams, does that automatically make him better than ralf?

hell davidson did a good job in hungary, and got more news than webber did (and rightly so..new kid... top job...) but does that automatically make him better thab webber?

massa v heidfeld this year.. 7 points v 4... not much else you can do than out score youre teammate...
8-2 in qual... not much else you can do on top of that than dominate your teammate in qual....

personally i think that whole post is a touch harsh on nick.

hes atleast equaled a guy who people rave about as brilliant in his first season, out did kimi last year (and theres onyl a years difference, not like a veteran v a rookie), and has, if you look at it logically, thumped his current teammate....

what else is a guy to do?

[MrBreaker]

Originally posted by Dudley


You're an idiot.

Dudley, quite harsh!! Austria was a brake failure, wasn't it?

[100cc]

Originally posted by maclaren

I don't think Sauber of 2001 was significantly better than 2000. Main improvement from 2000 to 2001 were drivers. Diniz and Salo were not fast enough and Diniz couldn't even finish races

Salo called up Peter and asked him what he had done to make the cars so much more competitive. His simple reply was "I got new drivers."

But serisously, I don't think it was only the drivers that made the difference. Usually sauber faded off after the first few races...that didn't happen in 2001.

[100cc]

Originally posted by molive
Funny thing a Finnish rag talking about how that new Brazilian boy is not as good as their Finnish boy...;)

hey, Peter said it!! Don't take a genius to figure it out either.

[POLAR]

This is all nonsense. Frentzen is plain mediocre, while Massa can be groomed to a future race winner. If Peter Sauber dump Felipe it wil be his loss. Far from comparing Felipe to Gilles Villeneuve, what would Peter Sauber do if Gilles had his debut at Sauber? to Sauber.


Polar