15 replies to this topic

[David M. Kane]

One year in the early '70s I met some people at the Race Car Show at Earl's
Court that were involved with the Fire Eater Extinguishing system who were
interested in selling their product in the States. One of them worked full-time for Team Surtees also or something to that effect. Anyway, he invited me to Team Surtees shops in Edenbridge where I had a brief one on one with Big John which was a big treat to say the least. However, I never did get a clear picture on who did the design of their cars. Obviously, John had a lot of input. Did he just use draughtmen to pen up his ideas or did he have an actual designer?

I was blown away when I saw something in the corner under a cover. It was
the Brooke Bond Oxo Lotus 72 that was run by Rob Walker. It looked pretty
strange since it was without the back half of the car, engine, tranny, etc.
but had the front suspension and wheels still on the front end. I read recently that Rob and John parted company on less than totally friendly terms, but that is another story.

Clearly it was a small compact team, but I never understood the design side. Any clues? Thanks guys.

[Vitesse2]

Hodges A-Z says Surtees had a "substantial design role" in the cars. One or two other names are mentioned: Ken Sears re the TS19 and "detailed draughting" of the TS7 by Shahab Ahmed and Peter Connew. Perhaps BJB can tell us more?

[Gary C]

Dave, was it defintely the Walker Lotus 72 you saw??

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
[B]Hodges A-Z says Surtees had a "substantial design role" in the cars.

Based on their results, he really should've employed someone..

[Milan Fistonic]

In his biography John Surtees describes the development of the first Surtees F1 car.

We took on a couple of draughtsmen who had just graduated from Loughborough College - one of whom was Ken Sears, who stayed with us to the end - and a couple of local sheet metal workers and welders. We didn't have a lot of equipment, but the plan was to do as much of the manufacture as possible ourselves.

The square-cut chassis came about because they weren't able to build the traditional curvaceous monocoque with the eqipment they had.

[Anorak Man]

John also did a lot of the testing and sortin' too. He'd be thrashing the track while Mike the Bike was still in bed.

Great bloke!

[David M. Kane]

Gary, that's what they said at the time, and it was definitely a Lotus 72 in Brooke Bond Oxo livery. Apparently, it was Brooke Bond Oxo money that bought the chassis and/or was left as part of the settle up between Rob
and John? I was too stunned at the time to ask. Maybe, it was sans engine
because that was the part that Rob paid for? I am strictly grabbing straws.

[Barry Boor]

Funnily enough, I have never heard Peter mention Ken Sears. I must ask him about the man.

I don't know if Shahab Ahmed had just graduated but certainly Peter Connew was not a graduate; he moved over to Team Surtees in Edenbridge from a company who made record decks and changer systems; (the systems by which the old 7" singles used to drop down to be played from a pile of maybe 8 or 10 balanced on the centre spindle of the turntable.) He felt this was not sufficiently taxing and needed a fresh challenge.

A friend of his, one Mick Smith, had been working as a mechanic at Surtees' for a while and suggested he try for a job there. He did, and got it.

The most pertinent fact here, I feel, is that Peter had no interest in racing cars whatsoever. The whole thing was just a technical challenge to him and could easily have been in a totally different engineering field. He never was interested in motor racing and isn't now.

In fact, pretty well the first job he had upon starting work there was to design the side tanks that Surtees put on his McLaren M7 early in 1970.

Once the TS.7 got onto the drawing board I gather that Surtees input was fairly general, while the designers got on with the detailed work. It seems Peter became frustrated at just being one cog in the machine.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[Frank de Jong]

My records show Ken Sears at the TS19 as well, also I got Len Terry (alone) listed for the TS5 F5000 car. Mike Pilbeam seems to have been involved in the design of the TS9.

[Vitesse2]

The TS5 was a reworking of the abandoned Leda F5000 project designed by Len Terry. Was Len the "Le" in Leda?

[Frank de Jong]

I think so.

[Tim Murray]

The Leda came after the TS5. According to Terry's book (Racing Car Design and Development , by Len Terry and Alan Baker) the TS5 (Terrier Mk 17) was based on the Terrier Mk 15, which was a F5000 design commissioned by Nathan Racing from Terry's Design Auto company. However, when design and construction were almost complete Nathan pulled out of the deal, in September 1968. Fortunately John Surtees came along with a request for a F5000 and was offered and accepted the Nathan design, which with a few modifications became the TS5.

In 1969 Terry and John Lambert set up Leda Cars Ltd to make and market the vehicles that Design Auto laid out. The first of these was the unsuccesful LT20 (or Terrier Mk 20) F5000 car raced in 1970. I would guess that the name Leda came from LE for Len and DA from Design Auto.

[Barry Boor]

Is the 'Nathan' in the previous post by any chance Roger Nathan?

[Wolf]

Originally posted by David M. Kane

I read recently that Rob and John parted company on less than totally friendly terms, but that is another story.

I would be obliged if someone would be so kind to shed some light on this part that got me intrigued... Thanks in advance. Pls, bear in mind I have no knowledge whatsoever of the matter at hand (save they were partners).

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Is the 'Nathan' in the previous post by any chance Roger Nathan?

Yes, it is Roger Nathan (racing Imps, Costin-Nathan & Astra sports racers, etc)

[Barry Boor]

Very interesting. As I am in touch with Roger Nathan these days and know the man quite well, it will be interesting to hear his version of this story.