32 replies to this topic

[nmansellfan]

Can anyone tell me what the outright lap record is on the Brands Hatch GP circuit? I know it used to be held by Nigel Mansell (I think) in a Williams Honda FW11, but that was before Dingle Dell, Westfield bend and Graham Hill bend were all changed. Emanuele Naspetti in a Reynard F3000 is the current holder according to what i can find in the web, but that was set in 1991 and again since then there have been mods to the track so that cant be true. Perhaps someone in the BOSS series has establised it?

2.7 miles of winding tarmac covered in under 1m10sec in a 1000 BHP Honda powered missile will always stick in my mind though...

[Jonathan]

I *think* Ronnie Peterson set a 1:16 something putting his Lotus-79 on pole with "Woodie" tyres back in 1978... Mario went thruogh nine sets of qualifing tyres attempting to equal his time, and couldnt get with in a second of Peterson's time. This to me is the all time record.

Mansell managed to knock 6 seconds off this time ? Bahh I dont believe it.

[BRG]

I had a look for a lap record but the best I could find was the record of 1min 13.86secs by a Reynard 91D - I presume that this is the Naspetti F3000 record from 1991 that you referred to. If so, then Mansell going 3 or so seconds faster in the turbo FW11 seems entirely believeable.

But I can't find an outright lap record for the current circuit (after the slight changes to Graham Hill Bend). I imagine that it must be held by someone in an old F1 car running in the EUROBOSS series. But the Brands and BOSS websites don't give any lap records. Anyone got a recent Brands race programme - they usually give such data in those?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Check out Brit F3 poles just in case, sometimes the Boss guys make a lot of noise on the straights but creep around the corners

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Jonathan
I *think* Ronnie Peterson set a 1:16 something putting his Lotus-79 on pole with "Woodie" tyres back in 1978... Mario went thruogh nine sets of qualifing tyres attempting to equal his time, and couldnt get with in a second of Peterson's time. This to me is the all time record.

Mansell managed to knock 6 seconds off this time ? Bahh I dont believe it.

Piquet was on pole in '86 in the FW11 with a 1:09.961 lap

Peterson was on pole in '78 in the 79 with a 1:16.80 lap

(Forix data)

[Breadmaster]

Having seen the EuroBOSS guys at Brands I am forced to agree with Ross....they were a bit cautious about bending their kit......(not that I blame them)

[nmansellfan]

Lets face it, anyone under 1m.20s at Brands is really moving.

BTW the pole time for the early season BTCC race was around 1.30 IIRC, And theres a reasonable chance that a Lotus 49 could still beat that time, judging from old lap times. Theres no substitute for raw power....

[MrAerodynamicist]

What about when Mansell tested the Williams there in '94? I don't know if they used the full or the indy circuit, plus it was only a brief test session.

[mikedeering]

Superbikes can do 1m26s

I think Mansell's 94 test was on the Indy track. Now that leads to another question - whats the lap record for that? I recall Keke Rosberg lapping in the 85 Williams in around 30s.

[Evo One]

Originally posted by mikedeering
Superbikes can do 1m26s

I think Mansell's 94 test was on the Indy track. Now that leads to another question - whats the lap record for that? I recall Keke Rosberg lapping in the 85 Williams in around 30s.

Yes but the Indy circuit has been modified since and would now be about 3 seconds slower for an F1 car.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
What about when Mansell tested the Williams there in '94? I don't know if they used the full or the indy circuit, plus it was only a brief test session.

Mansell's test was on the GP track. I have in .mpg form somewhere on a CD in my room. I'll see if they mention anything about laptimes, and maybe I'll find a way to rip the .mpg off the cd and upload it somehow.

[Breadmaster]

you can email to me if you like.......

[Jhope]

Originally posted by Breadmaster
you can email to me if you like.......

Will do. I just realised a friend of min ehas the CD. will be at least until the weekend before I get it back.

[VAR1016]

In the late 1980s - '88 or thereabouts, the Le Mans Jaguars were lapping the GP circuit in the 1 15s.

PdeRL

[man]

The times from the 1986 British GP are true...I was there. I would love to know what todays F1 cars could do at Brands, perhaps get under the 1 minute mark??!! I recall Johnny Herbert claiming the lap record for the indy circuit in his F1 Lotus Ford in 1992 I think it was, it was actually featured on British childresn program 'Record Breakers'. From memory, I think he beat a time set by a F3000 car.

[man]

One thing i'd like to know. Did F1 teams continue to test on the complete Brands circuit after 1986? Anybody have times?

[Thundersports]

Right lets put the record fairly straight here......................
Scott Mansell in a Euroboss Benetton B198 Judd holds the record on the Indy circuit 38.032.
Tony Worswick in a Euroboss Jordan 194 Judd on the GP loop 1.16.7.
Nigel Mansells testing in 1994 was on the Indy circuit.
Testing by F1 teams after 1986 was confined to the Indy circuit.

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by Thundersport
Right lets put the record fairly straight here......................
Scott Mansell in a Euroboss Benetton B198 Judd holds the record on the Indy circuit 38.032.

I was standing on the exit of Paddock when he did that.

[John M Cannon]

I believe Paul Tracy has the outright record around the Indy circuit - he qualified, on pole, at a 37.006 in the 2003 CART race held there.

[David McKinney]

In this part of the world at least, lap records have to be set during a race ;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Tracy's lap is more representative though, but clearly Mansell's EuroBoss car could have gone much quicker.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by man

I recall Johnny Herbert claiming the lap record for the indy circuit in his F1 Lotus Ford...

T'was in a Benetton methinks.

[taylov]

Originally posted by John M Cannon
I believe Paul Tracy has the outright record around the Indy circuit - he qualified, on pole, at a 37.006 in the 2003 CART race held there.

However in the race, the fastest lap was by A Fernandez at 38.21s on lap 152 of the race (on a near empty tank???)

In 2006 the EuroBOSS cars were back on the Brands short circuit, but cold, damp conditions kept the fastest lap times down to 39.84s - Klaas Zwart (Ascari Benetton) on the Saturday and 39.37s Nigel Greensall (Benetton B194) during Sunday's race.

Tony

[Thundersports]

Ross you state clearly Scott Mansell could have gone a lot quicker! Why?
The Euroboss cars use hard Avon control rubber unlike the tyres they would have used in there day, there is a in car video of Scott Mansell on the Brands Indy circuit on you tube well worth a peek.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah I've seen it. But Scott is no Nigel and you'd need a very compelling argument to convince me that's as fast as that car can go.

[nmansellfan]

Originally posted by man
The times from the 1986 British GP are true...I was there. I would love to know what todays F1 cars could do at Brands, perhaps get under the 1 minute mark??!! I recall Johnny Herbert claiming the lap record for the indy circuit in his F1 Lotus Ford in 1992 I think it was, it was actually featured on British childresn program 'Record Breakers'. From memory, I think he beat a time set by a F3000 car.

I remember Johnny Herbert's attempt on Record Breakers too, im sure he was in his Lotus. The same programme had a world's longest Scalextric track record attempt!

[John M Cannon]

Originally posted by David McKinney
In this part of the world at least, lap records have to be set during a race ;)

The Devil's always in the details, isn't it..? I stand corrected.

[Andrew Kitson]

I think a modern F1 missile would easily be on the minute mark or less on the Brands GP circuit now.
Graham Hill Bend is tighter, but Westfield and Dingle Dell are faster.
These are the only changes from '86. A1-GP cars do around 1min 13 on Brands GP.
As a modern comparison, Sepang Malaysia: A1-GP 1min 47s, Massa pole time F1 1min 32s.

[fines]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I think a modern F1 missile would easily be on the minute mark or less on the Brands GP circuit now.
Graham Hill Bend is tighter, but Westfield and Dingle Dell are faster.
These are the only changes from '86. A1-GP cars do around 1min 13 on Brands GP.
As a modern comparison, Sepang Malaysia: A1-GP 1min 47s, Massa pole time F1 1min 32s.

Well, that would compute to 62-63 seconds for an F1 at Brands...

[Barry Boor]

Just over a minute around the Brands long circuit!!!!!

Gawd! The mind boggleth......

[Thundersports]

Ross the Benetton maybe would have gone a little faster but only a maximum of 1 second or so. Scott is very quick having reached the final of the BRDC young driver awards in 2005, also you have to remember the car was run on a shoestring and "maximum" attack isn't an option as any off on Brands Indy in those cars is going to be a big one which Scott and his father would find financially challenging...........

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Just over a minute around the Brands long circuit!!!!!

Gawd! The mind boggleth......

Hard to believe Barry but yes, that's progress.
I remember watching the F5000s at Silverstone in '73, Hobbs & Lunger smashing the outright lap record
at 1.18.0 which was then beaten by mad Ronald the day after at 1.17.5 in the International Trophy.
We thought then it was impossible to go much quicker!

Hamilton's pole time last year was just under 1.20 - with the Becketts complex, Stowe/Club Vale section, Abbey chicane, Bridge/Luffield complex all added. A modern F1 car 'flat' through Copse (yes!) has to be witnessed to be
believed, TV does the performance of modern F1 cars no justice whatsoever.

Think back again to those great Thruxton F2 races. Henton doing a 1.10 in the Boxer which everyone was
raving about at the time. Modern little Formula Renaults ( the modern equivalent of FF2000 on the ladder) are doing 1.09s now.

[Gary C]

I was there when Team Lotus let Johnny Herbert out in the Lotus for an attempt at the Indy Circuit lap record. It was one of the 'free' days sponsored by the Daily Mail (or someone). I have photos somewhere & seem to remember he went out on wets, track was dry!!