70 replies to this topic

[dpardyrx7]

Twenty Four years ago Mario Andretti won the Belgium GP enroute to a World Championship. This may have been the crowning achievement on his CART titles of 1965,66,69 and 84, his Daytona 500 win in 1967, and an Indy 500 win in 1969. In addition to numerous dirt track and other national titles. Basically if it had wheels he could drive it faster than anyone. Is he the greatest racer of all time???????

[Ricardo F1]

No.

[Dunder]

No.

His team mate during his F1 championship year was significantly faster than Mario.

Certainly don't wish to diss his acheivements, they are fantastic, but the greatest of all time? Not by a long way.

[black magic]

er no.

[MichiganF1]

Maybe not, but if you chose him, no one should ridicule you. His accomplishments speak for themselves. Definitely one of the all-time greats.

[Zmeej]

Yes.

I'll trot out the quote yet again:

He's moral, he's ethical, and he's fast. You can't do better than that.
-- Paul Newman

[Lateralus42]

Mario was a real race car dirver, the guy would drive anyting and be good. He didnt just stick to F1 or Indycar or whatever. Down in Daytona they still talk about that infamous day when the 'furriner' came and won the race. Not sure if he is the best, but he is most definately a legend.

[Cocco_Bill]

No. Michael Schumacher is.

[ffiloseta]

To me, Mario is A great, but not THE greatest. As I see it, there can't be a "greatest" in motorsports because it is so dynamical, changing so quickly over time, and with so many differences between series.

Maybe if it was possible -and desirable- to fix rules and specifications for, say, 75 years, and there was a person who managed to win WRC, F1, CART or IRL titles, for example, maybe he or she could be named "the greatest". All right, I know. Lame, but maybe you get my point.

In conclusion, I am happy having many great names to look up to. One may probably learn something from each, and could surely find something to like in each one.

[MarkWRX]

No. Michael Schumacher is.

Thanks! I needed that. Mario Andretti is not the best racing driver of all time, but he has something that Michael doesn't - that can be stated as "sportsmanship" or "honor". Michael Schumacher is one of the best technical drivers I have seen, but he doesn't have the "sportsmanship" to be called the best driver in the world.

Also, Schumacher won't race at a track when Mario has won - Indianapolis Motor Speedway, in a Champ Car. Michael considers it too dangerous.

Mark

[ebin]

I don't think he's the greatest but as someone else said it's no cause for ridicule if you feel that way. As far as sportsmanship, honour, charisma and just being a good person he ranks as high as any driving legend. And he has a resume as good anyone elses.

IMHO, his boy Michael is probably faster than him but he doesn't possess his dad's finer characteristics.

[tony]

We should also not forget that MA recently did some endurance sports car racing at the 24 hours of Daytona and(or was it Lemans???). He was about 60 at the time.

MA was not the best of all time at each series. However, during his tenure in each series managed to win championships. He was certainly the best during his stay in each series. If one defines "best racecar driver" as meaning the best at racing an array of different cars, tracks, and series, then I would agree he is the best.

[prettyface]

Originally posted by ffiloseta
To me, Mario is A great, but not THE greatest. As I see it, there can't be a "greatest" in motorsports because it is so dynamical, changing so quickly over time, and with so many differences between series.

I couldn't agree more. There's no such person as the greatest of all time in motorsport, but there is a special group of greats and Mario has a lot of stock in it. If anything, you could say he lacked specialization, but name another driver that won in virtually everything, and not in a defined prime time but along FOUR decades (or were they five?). Mario, Clark and Moss come to my mind as a very special triunvirate when you consider not only F1 but motorsport at large.

[Jonathan]

Mario was/is a great guy... very nice man to talk to... members of the press loved him.

He went out of his way to speak with them.

He clearly was a very versitile driver....

But the best ? No, sorry, I dont think so.

[Joe Fan]

I certainly have no problem with anyone naming him as the greatest race car driver ever because he demonstrated that he could be quick in any type of machine (Indy Car, stock car, F1 car, sports car, and sprint car) on any type of circuit against the greatest drivers of his time. That is what I would expect the greatest race car driver ever to prove. You can be the greatest Formula One driver ever but in my mind, that only makes you the greatest Formula One driver. In order to carry the title of GREATEST RACE CAR DRIVER EVER, you need to demonstrate greatness in several other race disciplines which Mario has done.

I myself am not sure but I have always felt that A.J. Foyt was a touch better but Mario has the better resume between the two.

[ebin]

Foyt's problem was that he was a complete jerk off the track as well as on the track. The latter is cool with me, the former is harder to justify especially when the competition is a man like Mario. Of course character and charisma are bonus items.

Another bonus point for Mario - what a great racing name!

And how many men his age still burn with such a great passion for racing?

[random]

Yes, without a doubt.

The best F1 driver of all time, no.
The best Nascar driver of all time, no.
The best IndyCar driver of all time, perhaps.

But the best all-round driver, certainly. No others even come close to his achievements.

[ensign14]

I still say Jim Clark, who was quick in anything, he just cncentrated on F1; but Mario's all round record is probably the best.

No-one else has won Indy, Daytona and the F1 World Title - 3 very different beasts.

[Williams]

Originally posted by ensign14
I still say Jim Clark, who was quick in anything, he just cncentrated on F1; but Mario's all round record is probably the best.

No-one else has won Indy, Daytona and the F1 World Title - 3 very different beasts.

Actually Jim Clark was a damn good all-aroud driver too, having started in tin-top racing, and participated in all forms of open-wheel racing while doing F1 (he died in an F2 car), including Indy, and he also dabbled in stock car racing, sports cars, rallying and some hill climbs.

But Mario was probably one of the most versatile drivers ever to hit the track, even though, at the time, all good drivers tended to work different kinds of racing. Mario was certainly one of the most successful in so many different categories. He was also one of the most technically competent drivers, and really understood how to make a car go fast even before setting foot in the vehicle. He showed Colin Chapman a thing or two about setting up an F1 car.

To appreciate just how great a driver Mario was, read his recent biography by Gordon Kirby. An amazing read.

[B.Verkiler]

Not even in the top 10, or the top 20.

[BRG]

Originally posted by random
But the best all-round driver, certainly. No others even come close to his achievements.

Graham Hill - WDC, Le Mans winner, Indy 500 winner.

Mario was obviously a considerable talent and to win titles in F1 and USAC/CART is a rare achievement. But not unique (eg. Nigel Mansell). But I was never hugely impressed with him. His F1 WDC was won in the totally dominant Lotus ground- effect car and was assisted by a team-mate every bit as subordinated as Rubens has been to Schumacher. The difference being that in the case of Petersen, he was arguably the faster driver.

So, no, Mario does not figure in the all-time greats. But he does deserve a place in history for his versatility. A pity that he never got that Le Mans win - then he would have had a really unique claim to fame.

[Pascal]

One of the true Great Drivers, undoubtedly.

Le Mans proved elusive, but otherwise not many holes in his resume...

[Arnie]

Great but not the greatest..

[coyoteBR]

Well, Mario Andretti was great, but other drivers did achive similar results in several categories.

Let's take Emerson Fittipaldi, for instance.

Two-times formula One champion
Got a podium with the team he build with his brother
Leaved Formula-One, return to race in Brazil, in different categories. Was Super-Kart champion at this time.
Went to the USofA, race at NASCAR, for a team owner who used to throw TV sets out of the hotel windows when things did not work his way
Changed to CART - Won title, won Indy 500
In the meantime, raced now and then in special events, like the Brazilian 1.000, with stock-cars, getting expressive results.

And other drivers did similar impressive results. Old men Brabhan and Hill, for instance.

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by Cocco_Bill
No. Michael Schumacher is.

Let's see Michaeal win Daytona (stock cars), Indy (champ cars), and Sebring (sports cars) not to mention Sprint Cars. Then I'll vote for him.

I don't know if Mario is THE GREATEST, but he's certainly one of the all time greats. Certainly one of the most (if not the most) versatile drivers in history. Too bad LeMans will never make it on his resume.

[Duck]

"Not even in the top ten, or top twenty."

That's a joke, right?

[miniman]

Michael Schumacher is, undoubtedly, the greatest of all time.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by miniman
Michael Schumacher is, undoubtedly, the greatest of all time.

You do realise of course that motorsport is not limited to Formula 1, don't you?

Some rally fans may disagree with you and feel tempted to give that title to Walter Röhrl...

[Math Soucy]

The most successfully versatile driver, but that's not the question. Greatst racing driver ever? I vote no. I am not old enough to remember the 1978 season, but was Peterson prohibited to race Andretti? Were team orders cemented before the season began? I thought I read that Peterson did not receive the Lotus 78 at the same time as Andretti, but, why was Peterson the number two if he was considered so much faster than Mario?

[Duck]

Math, Ronnie was a blindingly quick "seat of the pants" driver. However, he possessed VERY MINIMAL knowledge of setup. The entire Lotus "ground effects" concept was basically a result of Chapman's engineering prowess, coupled with Mario's technical expertise. As a matter of fact, Chapman frequently used to pull his hair out when attempting to extract ANY information, or feedback from Ronnie regarding car behavior.
Yes, Ronnie was faster than Mario on numerous occasions, but Mario was the Total Package with respect to driving skill, AND technical input.

[RedFever]

"Basically if it had wheels he could drive it faster than anyone. Is he the greatest racer of all time???????"

ABsoultely no. Back then, before the mid-70s, it was absolutely normal to have drivers compete in entirely different series. Actually the are drivers who first dominated the motorbike world, before dominating the 4 wheels world. How about that? then Nuvolari and Surtees and Hawthorne are even greater racers for winning regardless of the number of wheels under them............

[swoopp]

He's the best american driver.Top ten in the world.

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by swoopp
He's the best american driver.Top ten in the world.

I'll second this nomination

[Lateralus42]

I dont think Schuey has the aura that someone like Mario had. It would be cool to see Schuey do some DTM or world rally races, something to prove to the world that he really is the best ever. i can understand his fear of ovals so I wont fault him there, but wouldnt it be great to see Schuey at Daytona and winning the race???

[AMD]

Originally posted by Lateralus42
It would be cool to see Schuey do some DTM or world rally races

he's done some DTM ten years ago. I think Valentino Rossi will do some world rally races in the next few years

[Ghostrider]

Since Vic Buford posted on the Nostalgia Forum, I say he is the best. Ever.

[madmac]

It's an interesting question, to specialise or not. Andretti has had more diverse success than say Schumacher and has certainly had a longer and way more varied career. But perhaps that his his downfall in the stats question, he never stayed around a single series long enough to get any records. Probably the guy most comparable to him is Emmerson Fittipaldi & as Redfever says Mario never tried his hand on bikes unlike Surtees, Hawthorn and Hill. But to me his his one of the all time greats of motorsport not just F1, if schumacher (and I'm not bashing him here) is going to become an all round motorsport great he will have to go and win Le Man for Ferrari after he gets bored with his 6 or 7 F1 WDC's.

[Spunout]

"Let's see Michaeal win Daytona (stock cars), Indy (champ cars), and Sebring (sports cars) not to mention Sprint Cars. Then I'll vote for him."

Why not DTM (stock cars) and Le Mans (sports cars)? He has no need to prove anything in CART, he already dominates F1 (open-wheel cars).

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
Since Vic Buford posted on the Nostalgia Forum, I say he is the best. Ever.

I think you mean Vic Elford? Or possibly Buford...

[The Sensational]

Maybe the most rounded driver of all times?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by The Sensational
Maybe the most rounded driver of all times?

AJ Foyt is perhaps the greatest 'rounded' driver, especially in his later years.

[aportinga]

1. Bernd Rosemeyer
2. Jim Clark
3. Tazio Nuvolari
4. Juan Manuel Fangio
5. Alain Prost
6. Herman Lang
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Rudolf Caracciola
9. Louis Chiron
10. Achille Varzi
11. Gilles Villeneuve
12. Ayrton Senna
13. Robert Benoist
14. Jean-Pierre Wimille
15. Luigi Villoresi
16. Philippe Etancelin
17. Jules Goux
18. Felice Nazzaro
19. Ralph DePalma
20. Mario Andretti

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by ensign14


AJ Foyt is perhaps the greatest 'rounded' driver, especially in his later years.

Mansell has become "well rounded" as well from what I understand.;)

[aportinga]

bs until u know what!

[Martijn]

Originally posted by biercemountain


Let's see Michaeal win Daytona (stock cars), Indy (champ cars), and Sebring (sports cars) not to mention Sprint Cars. Then I'll vote for him.

Lets see Mario rack up Schumachers achievements in F1, where Mario could barely outrun his own teammate.... How can a guy be the best ever when he cant even do that?

That would be as ridiculous as condsidering Moss to be an alltime great!;)

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by Martijn

could barely outrun his own teammate.... How can a guy be the best ever when he cant even do that?

There has been a lot of that going around lately. MS has been out q'ed a few times this year.

Guess it can't be MS then. Just applying your logic.

As most people have said. Mario is perhaps the best all round driver ever. not the fastest at any one thing but solid championship material in everything he has turned his hand to.

For all the MS fans.

When Mike has won the INDY 500, The DAYTONA 500, The CART championship, ....... then we can talk.
Until then MS is just a one trick pony.

Even Jacques has more clam to best all round race driver ever with his F1 WDC, INDY 500 win, Cart Championship..... Only Mario, Emo, and Jacques have achieved this status in the WORLD of motorsport.

[Zmeej]

Pardon my ignorance, aportinga, mais qui sont ces types*?

13. Robert Benoist
14. Jean-Pierre Wimille
15. Luigi Villoresi
16. Philippe Etancelin
17. Jules Goux
18. Felice Nazzaro
19. Ralph DePalma

*French for "Who are these guys?"

[Ali_G]

I don't think he was the greatest driver ever even if he won so many things.

There are 3 big races to win. Monaco, Indy and LeMans.

And only 2 men have ever done it. Jim Clark and Graham Hill.

I still think Jim Clark was the most versitile of drivers and IMO the Quickest ever.

Niall

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Zmeej
Pardon my ignorance, aportinga, mais qui sont ces types*?

*French for "Who are these guys?"

Robert Benoist - winner of every Grand Prix in 1927. Resistance hero, executed by the Germans.
Jean-Pierre Wimille - dominant driver in 1947 and 1948, winner 'au Mans' in 1938, killed in Argentina in a Simca Gordini in 1949. Also a Resistance hero.
Luigi Villoresi - wouldn't be in my list, but winner of the British GP in 1948, best years lost to WW2, friend and mentor to Ascari.
Philippe Etancelin - 'Phi-Phi', raced from the 20s to the 50s, winner of several GPs 1929-1933, victim of French cars losing competitiveness, Le Mans winner (x2, IIRC).
Jules Goux - legend, won GPs from 1908ish to 1924, Indy 500 winner.
Felice Nazzaro - another legend, winner of French GP in 1907 + loads of other races, went on to become a constructor.
Ralph DePalma - winner at Indy in 1914ish, fastest American driver of the 1900s-1910s (save perhaps for David Bruce-Brown).

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Ali_G
I don't think he was the greatest driver ever even if he won so many things.

There are 3 big races to win. Monaco, Indy and LeMans.

And only 2 men have ever done it. Jim Clark and Graham Hill.

I still think Jim Clark was the most versitile of drivers and IMO the Quickest ever.

Niall

Umm...Jim Clark never won at Monaco. Or Le Mans. But I think he was the quickest ever - he won the BTCC in 1964 on the odd weekends between F1 races.