10 replies to this topic

[just me again]

I was thinking if the Formula 1 regulations only says it have to be 10 cylendres and nothing about the number on pistons, crancshafts etc. etc. then maybe an engine made like the Commer Double Knocker would give way more horsepower than the current engines. I know it will be a nightmare to get an engine like that to fit in a F1, but maybe it will be worth a try if the hpdifference is big enough.
Look at post 12 in this tread http://www.atlasf1.c...ight=odd engine to see a drawing.

Bjørn

[desmo]

You are aware that the Commer was a supercharged two stroke diesel?

[BRG]

Desmo

True, but does that preclude a normally-aspirated petrol version though? Mind you, with all those links between piston and crankshaft, the reciprocating mass must be huge - I doubt if it would be a suitable format for a 20,000rpm race engine!

My old mate Brian, who worked on trucks most of his early career, always raves about the power of the Commer compared to everything else around at the time. But that was then, andhe was only talking about other diesels!

[Evo One]

But how would you turn it into a 4 stroke with poppet valves

[desmo]

Here's the engine under discussion. I can't think of a way to make a four-stroke opposed piston work without perhaps using sleeve valves.

[Marzal]

Nice post desmo.
Thanx!

[rgagne]

i fail to understand how this can produce any more torque than any conventional engine firing two cylinders at once??? it just look to me that the rate of pressure drop in the cylinder as both pistons are going apart will be a major loss of torque?

can someone explain? (if indeed, that thing has ever been built)

[Evo One]

Originally posted by rgagne
i fail to understand how this can produce any more torque than any conventional engine firing two cylinders at once??? it just look to me that the rate of pressure drop in the cylinder as both pistons are going apart will be a major loss of torque?

can someone explain? (if indeed, that thing has ever been built)

That 'thing' was actually a production engine. Perhaps the most famouse vehicle to use it was the Ecurie Ecosse transporter in the mid 50's - there was a very good article about it in Motorsport about a year ago.

[AS110]

I have no books in front of me,my TS3 book is at work,but they were 3.3 litres or about 200 cu in,and could pull a load as well as petrol or diesel engines of twice the size.AND made a gorgeous noise doing it,a Triumph Trident with a roots blower scream over top.

[Catalina Park]

One advantage of the conrod rocker arm layout is that the piston is not subject to the sidways forces that a normal piston is subject to.

I have driven a Commer Knocker (TS3) and they are a wonderful bit of gear!
If you take off one or more muffler you get more noise and less power!
The engine needs backpressure to stop the compressor blowing the charge straight out the exhaust port, but you try telling the drivers that!

[malbear]

Originally posted by Evo One
But how would you turn it into a 4 stroke with poppet valves

Evo, it can be turned into a 4stroke by making one piston smaller in diameter and running it at half the speed of the other. No poppett valves are needed just secondry valving on the outside of the ports, Reed or disk on the intake and a disk on the exhaust. The entire circumference of the smaller upper valving piston is available for porting , no need for a blower .

Malbeare