43 replies to this topic

[Bumper]

Alex Young is saying http://www.autosport...sp?id=20536&s=5 that he is ready to come back and race at Monza this coming weekend. He says the couple of races off have given him new strength and confidence to race.

I am wondering whether a driver that isn't fast "straight from the shelf" in F1 has any chance of improving dramatically over time?

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Bumper
Alex Young is saying http://www.autosport...sp?id=20536&s=5 that he is ready to come back and race at Monza this coming weekend. He says the couple of races off have given him new strength and confidence to race.

I am wondering whether a driver that isn't fast "straight from the shelf" in F1 has any chance of improving dramatically over time?

If it were possible to change your racing potential in the course of a month, we'd all be f1 drivers.

I'll be surprised if he makes the cut, although I think he might just do it this time, he almost CAN'T miss it.

[A3]

Yoong.

[Flying Panda]

The least you could have done was spell his name right

[Bumper]

Thanks for your indepth contribution as always FP

[mel]

Title edited for spelling.;)

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Bumper
I am wondering whether a driver that isn't fast "straight from the shelf" in F1 has any chance of improving dramatically over time?

In Yoong's case I'd say 'No', he doesn't have a chance of 'improving dramatically' but I do believe that new drivers take time to adapt and can over time improve markedly.

[Flying Panda]

I have often been quite vocal on my opinion on Alex, and although my opinion of him is higher than I hold for any other driver on the grid, the respect I have for him seems more often criticized than supported.

I'm not sure how the break would have helped him at all mantally, but if he felt physically stressed from the first races this season, then we should see and improvement in his skills. I have little doubt that the performace he puts in at Monza will be better than we have seen of him in the past, not only for the reason that he is rested, but by the fact that he knows the circuit very well. He made hi F1 debut at Monza last year, and I am sure that he will produce more respectable result this weekend than he did last year.

Just as long as he hasnt lost any of his never-say-die attitude, I dont see how we can ask for any more from him.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
although my opinion of him is higher than I hold for any other driver on the grid

I'm interesed. Why do you have a higher opinion of him than ANY other driver on the grid ?

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by Brian O Flaherty
I'm interesed. Why do you have a higher opinion of him than ANY other driver on the grid ?

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Alex is doing a better job than any of us would.

Everyday, people remind Alex what his limitations are. But never-the-less, he goes out there, every 2 weeks, knowing damn well that he is going to be dead last, and still he goes a fast as he farking well can, always giving 110%. He doesnt give up when he DNQ's, or gets lapped by his teammate, but he holds his head up high, cause he is doing the best he can, and he's proud of it.

He may not be winning races, but he's got all the trademarks of a true champion

[Brian O Flaherty]

Hmm, I dunno. If I was out there in his shoes (from a country that wanted an image in F1 and would spend millions to get it) I'd be giving 110% aswell. I'd probably be dead last too, and even though I'd be reminded of my limitations every day I'd still hold my head up high. After all, I'd be living out my dream.

Will you respect me now too ?

I see him as no different to any of the others only a little slower

[Bumper]

In my opinion there's no place in F1 for a slow driver. A driver is always ranked first of all against his own team mate and if Webbers outqualifies/outruns him all the time that means that Webber is a lot faster and has a better grip on set up. If Webber can manage quite easily to stay within the 107% rule and Yoong can't then there's clearly something wrong. I know Yoong brings a lot of sponsorship money in but maybe it would be best if he went back to F3 or F3000 and go through some basics again like how to set up a car as he seems a little out of his depth in F1. I'm sure he has talent but he needs a lot more experience and maybe F1 isn't the best place to practice.

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Bumper
Thanks for your indepth contribution as always FP

What do you expect on this forum? Everyone's an expert.

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Flying Panda

Alex is doing a better job than any of us would.

Everyday, people remind Alex what his limitations are. But never-the-less, he goes out there, every 2 weeks, knowing damn well that he is going to be dead last, and still he goes a fast as he farking well can, always giving 110%. He doesnt give up when he DNQ's, or gets lapped by his teammate, but he holds his head up high, cause he is doing the best he can, and he's proud of it.

He may not be winning races, but he's got all the trademarks of a true champion

See this is an argument I just don't accept. The fact that Yoong has a superlicense is an absolute farce and almost demands reform of the system.

Alex is out there racing his heart out but the fact is he just doesn't deserve to be, just as I don't deserve to be out there. Yes, of course Alex is doing a better job than I could do in an F1 car, but that's the reason I post on this forum instead of DRIVING AN F1 CAR.

And Alex should not hold his head up high. His rich daddy got him into a sport where he does not deserve to be, he endangers and detracts from the racing spectacle for other fans/drivers, and is taking a valuable racing spot away from someone who may wish to make an actual living as a racecar driver.

In my opinion, the makings of a champion is someone who demonstrates unparalled skill, success and enjoyment in a sport. Alex Yoong may enjoy it, and believe me, I'd enjoy the free ride too.

Alex does not have the trademarks of a true champion, he has the trademarks of a persistent, spoiled brat.

Do us all a favour, Alex, and leave the sport.

[taran]

I have to agree with The Sensational here. Alex Yoong might have a good attitude or perhaps he is increadibly thick skinned but he absolutely lacks the skill or talent to be near F1 let alone driving an F1 car. Calling him a champion is an insult not only to the wonderful F1 champions the sport has given us, it is an insult to every F1 hopeful who has at least won junior championships.

Alex Yoong is a very nice guy. He is also a decidely poor race driver. Consider Anthony Davidson, who has pushed Mark Webber hard in 2 races while Alex can't even make it into the 107%.....

Sorry, Alex Yoong is no champion. He just has a very persuasive dad and even he isn't getting the support from Malaysia much longer as all attempts to get the Petronas money have floundered due to Alex' lack of speed.

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by taran
I have to agree with The Sensational here.

[GL*]

Alex is doing a better job than any of us would.

Everyday, people remind Alex what his limitations are. But never-the-less, he goes out there, every 2 weeks, knowing damn well that he is going to be dead last, and still he goes a fast as he farking well can, always giving 110%.

That's the problem right there because he needs to give at least 107% to make the grid

[jetsetjim]

It's posts like this that really highlight the pressures a driver has to deal with day in , day out...

Everyday, Alex ends up reading somewhere that he lacks talent, isn't a racing driver, or whatever other derogatory comments the millions of so-called "experts" decide they want to come up with.

Alex is probably the most polite, courteous person in the pitlane.. I've never heard him say a bad word about anyone, yet all he ever seems to do is walk around picking daggers out of his back..

I wonder how many people on this forum could deal with the same kind of pressure...

[maclaren]

Originally posted by GL*
That's the problem right there because he needs to give at least 107% to make the grid

The problem is Alex giving 110% which is too much

[flyer72]

Yoong doesn't belong in F1 - Paul Stoddart already made sure that he won't be in F1 next year. Perhaps he can test for Minardi but he can't get a drive without paying for it and if he doesn't qualify the sponsors will quickly forget about him.

He tried and failed - but at least he tried...

[baddog]

Alex may not be (hell he isnt) f1 material, but:

Presences 15
GP started 11
Not qualified 3
Best race classification 7
Best grid position 19

not good stats, but noone can ever take away from the guy that he qualified for 11 grand prix

Shaun

[HP]

He tried hard, but he fails to meet some unrealistic expectations some people have set for him. It's not the first person nor the last to fail on such an assignment. But he tried, and that is what matters most to me. There is no shame in trying, nor even in failing. Alex Yoong and all other parties interested know now the personal limitations of AY. Failing is a failure only when people don't learn from it.

From another perspective if Alex presence in F1 stirred some young Malaysian kids to try to do better than Alex in F1, his presence in F1 was a success. Let's not look to short-term results only.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by Bumper
In my opinion there's no place in F1 for a slow driver. A driver is always ranked first of all against his own team mate and if Webbers outqualifies/outruns him all the time that means that Webber is a lot faster and has a better grip on set up. If Webber can manage quite easily to stay within the 107% rule and Yoong can't then there's clearly something wrong.

I absoultey agree, but I fail to see your point.
Yoong isnt a slow driver, because if he were, he wouldnt be in Formula One.
When Yoong makes the 107% mark, he has as much right to start the race as any other driver on the grid.
When Yoong doesnt make the 107%, then he doesnt compete in Formula One.

[JollyRoger]

Love the logic there FP

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by jetsetjim
It's posts like this that really highlight the pressures a driver has to deal with day in , day out...

Everyday, Alex ends up reading somewhere that he lacks talent, isn't a racing driver, or whatever other derogatory comments the millions of so-called "experts" decide they want to come up with.

Alex is probably the most polite, courteous person in the pitlane.. I've never heard him say a bad word about anyone, yet all he ever seems to do is walk around picking daggers out of his back..

I wonder how many people on this forum could deal with the same kind of pressure...

I think he's asking for it though, by daring to put himself in F1 when he simply should not be there. As silly as it sounds, i think its disrespectful and shows a basic lack of appreciation for what racing is really about. Something you take very seriously. If you just want to dick around and be a boy racer, go do club formula ford.

[baddog]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


I think he's asking for it though, by daring to put himself in F1 when he simply should not be there. As silly as it sounds, i think its disrespectful and shows a basic lack of appreciation for what racing is really about. Something you take very seriously. If you just want to dick around and be a boy racer, go do club formula ford.

ross, not arguing about ability, but has there ever been any hint that alex approaches f1 in a less professional or in some way 'boy racer dicking around' fashion? Surely if he takes it seriously, does his best, then if they will have him he can be there. You can say the TEAM shouldnt hire him, but not really that he shouldnt take his shot. You bloody would.

Shaun

[Ross Stonefeld]

I would not buy my way into F1 no.

if I thought I had the ability, and simply had to face the corporate realities of entry into racing, yeah id get a sponsor; like im doing now at the junior levels. But im also aware of both my current ability, ultimate potential, current results, etc.

Im also very sensitive to criticism and would rather not hear about how bad I am

[Flying Panda]

Indeed.

And I dont see how being boy racer dicking around in Formula One could be
a) disrespectful to Formula One
b) more disrespectful to Formula One than being a boy racer dicking around in Formula Ford would be to Formula Ford.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
Indeed.

And I dont see how being boy racer dicking around in Formula One could be
a) disrespectful to Formula One
b) more disrespectful to Formula One than being a boy racer dicking around in Formula Ford would be to Formula Ford.

Formula Ford is not considered a world championship or the pinnacle of the sport, nor is it intended to be. As you get higher and higher up the ladder, the more professional it does, and should, become.

Its like any other sport. Down at the school level you have guys who play for fun, guys who play for school spirit, and guys who play for a pro career. THen you get into university play where its much more serious, and then you get into pro-ball where its all professional experts.

[Garagiste]

I've never heard him say a bad word about anyone

Well you wouldn't - when you find yourself somewhere you aren't supposed to be, you keep your head down and mouth shut... He may be a very nice person, but 107% is the only relevant yardstick in this discussion. If, as I fear, he manages another DNQ before the season is out, then the position is all too clear and he does not deserve the seat, IMO.

[Scudetto]

Isn't 3 DNQ's and being a constant 2+ seconds adrift of your teammate in qualifying evidence enough? If Yoong wants to get back into F1, give him a PS2 and the EA Sports game.

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Scudetto
Isn't 3 DNQ's and being a constant 2+ seconds adrift of your teammate in qualifying evidence enough? If Yoong wants to get back into F1, give him a PS2 and the EA Sports game.

Yup. I have no tolerance for Yoong fans.

[jetsetjim]

I would not buy my way into F1 no.

Err.. Reality time Ross.

No matter WHO you are in F1.. to get into any seat in the first place, you still need money. Just ask a certain M. Schumacher.. He had to pay for his seat in the Jordan in 1991!

Every driver brings money of some sort to the team, usually as personal sponsors.

Ok, Alex is there mainly for the money, but I bet he is still doing a better job than any of the armchair experts in this forum...

[Ross Stonefeld]

read the entire post next time, mainly "if I thought I had the ability, and simply had to face the corporate realities of entry into racing, yeah id get a sponsor;"

Thats what Michael and Hakkinen and Senna et al had to do. Yoong simply bought his way into F1. Ie if money wasnt an issue people would take Michael Mika and Ayrton, and pass over Alex.

[jetsetjim]

Im also very sensitive to criticism and would rather not hear about how bad I am

Hmmm.....

[Ross Stonefeld]

Whether im a 5 time world champion or just a guy on a bulletin board, the fact remains Alex Yoong doesnt deserve to be in F1 on talent.

[jetsetjim]

This is one of those arguements that's gonna roll on forever, with Alex's name replaced with whoever is at the back of the grid in the coming years..

At the end of the day, He ain't the first, and he won't be the last to get to F1 that way.

[Ross Stonefeld]

At the same time I dont think we should just brush it off and say "oh well thats just the way it is" yeah that *is* the way it is, but its not a good thing. Yoong(or Mazzacane or Tuero et al) should not be in F1 when Davidson, Wilson, Kristensen, etc are not. I dont begrudge a good driver who is able to be marketing savy as well, as in the case of Enrique Bernoldi, but why should we accept especially in the 'world championship'; less than the best drivers availible?

[jetsetjim]

It's a chicken and egg thing..

You can't have a true world championship without the best drivers - agreed

BUT

You can't have a world championship if there are no teams - Every driver brings money to a team, if that wasn't the case, teams wouldn' t be able to run to the level they do today

That then leads to the question of the validity of the name "World Championship".. No money means less developed cars, which means less technology, which then makes you wonder if it would still be the pinnacle..

[Dudley]

That's the view I take as a Minardi fan.

Alex is not taking a seat away from wilson, he's creating one for Webber.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by The Sensational
Yup. I have no tolerance for Yoong fans.

Heres a thought, how about you stop bad-mouthing him, so then you dont have to tolerate out replies ?

Originally posted by Dudley
That's the view I take as a Minardi fan.

Alex is not taking a seat away from wilson, he's creating one for Webber.

that too.

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Flying Panda

Heres a thought, how about you stop bad-mouthing him, so then you dont have to tolerate out replies ?


that too.

How about this? You don't quote what I say when it's not directed at you, unless of course you're a Yoong fan, which the second quote would not imply.

[Flying Panda]

The fact of the arguement is that I am indeed a Yoong fan.
I can understand you intolerance toward me because I am posting my pro-Yoong 'argument' on this BB.

But personally, I dont see the difference between a fan supporting Alex Yoong and another fan supporting Michael Schumacher. You wont find a single driver on the grid who doesnt have a legion of fans behind them.

When someone has a go a Schumacher, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
When someone has a go at Montoya, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
When someone has a go at Diniz, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
Why become intolerant of people who defend Yoong when he comes under attack ?

[The Sensational]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
The fact of the arguement is that I am indeed a Yoong fan.
I can understand you intolerance toward me because I am posting my pro-Yoong 'argument' on this BB.

But personally, I dont see the difference between a fan supporting Alex Yoong and another fan supporting Michael Schumacher. You wont find a single driver on the grid who doesnt have a legion of fans behind them.

When someone has a go a Schumacher, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
When someone has a go at Montoya, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
When someone has a go at Diniz, it is only natural for his fans to defend him.
Why become intolerant of people who defend Yoong when he comes under attack ?

Supporting him for the country he represents is acceptable. Supporting him for the team he accepts is acceptable. Supporting him for his out of car character is acceptable (to a certain extent). Supporting him for his driving is, in my opinion, not really all that acceptable. Or should I say implausible?