46 replies to this topic

[Ricardo F1]

Schumacher and Ferrari are to blame for F1 crisis says Irvine
“Ferrari have proved they are not interested in racing.” [12/10/02 - 05:43]

Eddie Irvine has blamed Michael Schumacher's arrogance and Ferrari's policy of ‘no racing allowed between teammates' for the Formula One fraternity currently being in crisis.
In his regular interview with the Sun, Eddie spoke of the ‘artificial plans hatched by Bernie Ecclestone and FIA President Max Mosley to make the sport more exciting' and believes it could have all been avoided if Michael Schumacher realized that the sport was not there simply for his benefit, as displayed by the staged finish in the USGP two weeks ago.

“We all accept Ferrari have been in a class of their own this season so there is no need for Michael to try to rub salt in the wounds by attempting to stage-manage a dead heat at Indianapolis two weeks ago,” he said. “That was crass and the fact it backfired on him, allowing team-mate Rubens Barrichello to win by the slimmest of margins, did not help. It brought back all the unpleasant memories of Austria earlier in the year where Ferrari ordered Rubens to pull over so Michael could win and it did nothing to bring falling TV audiences back on to their settees. McLaren chief Ron Dennis summed up Michael's actions perfectly when he said F1 races are very difficult to win so you should never trivialise a victory.”

Eddie believes that one of the major problems with Ferrari at the moment is that hey are obsessed with re-writing the record books in the series and to safeguard this goal, the two drivers are unable to go at it, no holds barred. While dominance is nothing new in F1, Irvine insists that previous seasons of one team domination have been kept interesting as team bosses allowed their two drivers to battle it out on track.

“1988 season when McLaren won 15 of the 16 races was, for me, the most exciting ever because Alain Prost and the late Ayrton Senna fought tooth and nail with each other,” he said. “But Ferrari have proved they are not interested in racing. The only competition is between their two drivers, and that is not allowed to happen .Ferrari refuse to permit their drivers to race each other - and THAT'S what is turning people away from the sport. Take Hungary as an example. Rubens won but Michael suddenly went THREE SECONDS a lap faster before meekly following him over the line. If he had gone flat out, the pair would have been wheel-to-wheel. They may have taken each other off or Michael could have shown his skills by making an impressive move on a track regarded as one of the toughest for overtaking. Either way, it would have been fascinating. The trouble is Ferrari are obsessed with re-writing the record books. Once Michael clinched his record- equalling fifth world crown, the team went all out to ensure Rubens was runner-up. Who cares who is second? F1 is about racing. It is what fans want to see and they are being denied that because of the way Ferrari are conducting themselves.”

Like several of his colleagues, Eddie is not for introducing the proposed weight penalty, even though he admits it would definitely make things interesting, allowing the mid field runners to fight for victory more often. So what does he think would be a good way to deal with the situation?

“I have a very simple cure to stop Ferrari in their tracks - do not show them on TV,” he suggested. “The cameras should focus only on cars prepared to really race - my Jaguar Racing team, BMW Williams, McLaren, Jordan and Renault. Put Ferrari out of the picture completely and I bet it will not take long before the people who plough millions into sponsoring the scarlet machines demand a change of policy. The reason F1 is suffering a crisis is because Ferrari appear the only people who do not understand what is at stake.”

[wawawa]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
“I have a very simple cure to stop Ferrari in their tracks - do not show them on TV,” he suggested.

Ah, Eddie's going swapping the driver's seat for the race-director's seat - oh joy! Nice idea, but Jag'll outqualify Ferrari by 2 seconds today before this'll ever happen.

[vogtsophob]

Fortunately we still have Jaguar to save F1

[HP]

Wasn't that the the same EI who a while a go claimed that Ferrari and MS are not to blame for the current situation.

[xsnhonda]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Schumacher and Ferrari are to blame for F1 crisis says Irvine
“Ferrari have proved they are not interested in racing.” [12/10/02 - 05:43]

Eddie Irvine has blamed Michael Schumacher's arrogance and Ferrari's policy of ‘no racing allowed between teammates' for the Formula One fraternity currently being in crisis.
In his regular interview with the Sun, Eddie spoke of the ‘artificial plans hatched by Bernie Ecclestone and FIA President Max Mosley to make the sport more exciting' and believes it could have all been avoided if Michael Schumacher realized that the sport was not there simply for his benefit, as displayed by the staged finish in the USGP two weeks ago.

“We all accept Ferrari have been in a class of their own this season so there is no need for Michael to try to rub salt in the wounds by attempting to stage-manage a dead heat at Indianapolis two weeks ago,” he said. “That was crass and the fact it backfired on him, allowing team-mate Rubens Barrichello to win by the slimmest of margins, did not help. It brought back all the unpleasant memories of Austria earlier in the year where Ferrari ordered Rubens to pull over so Michael could win and it did nothing to bring falling TV audiences back on to their settees. McLaren chief Ron Dennis summed up Michael's actions perfectly when he said F1 races are very difficult to win so you should never trivialise a victory.”

Eddie believes that one of the major problems with Ferrari at the moment is that hey are obsessed with re-writing the record books in the series and to safeguard this goal, the two drivers are unable to go at it, no holds barred. While dominance is nothing new in F1, Irvine insists that previous seasons of one team domination have been kept interesting as team bosses allowed their two drivers to battle it out on track.

“1988 season when McLaren won 15 of the 16 races was, for me, the most exciting ever because Alain Prost and the late Ayrton Senna fought tooth and nail with each other,” he said. “But Ferrari have proved they are not interested in racing. The only competition is between their two drivers, and that is not allowed to happen .Ferrari refuse to permit their drivers to race each other - and THAT'S what is turning people away from the sport. Take Hungary as an example. Rubens won but Michael suddenly went THREE SECONDS a lap faster before meekly following him over the line. If he had gone flat out, the pair would have been wheel-to-wheel. They may have taken each other off or Michael could have shown his skills by making an impressive move on a track regarded as one of the toughest for overtaking. Either way, it would have been fascinating. The trouble is Ferrari are obsessed with re-writing the record books. Once Michael clinched his record- equalling fifth world crown, the team went all out to ensure Rubens was runner-up. Who cares who is second? F1 is about racing. It is what fans want to see and they are being denied that because of the way Ferrari are conducting themselves.”

Like several of his colleagues, Eddie is not for introducing the proposed weight penalty, even though he admits it would definitely make things interesting, allowing the mid field runners to fight for victory more often. So what does he think would be a good way to deal with the situation?

“I have a very simple cure to stop Ferrari in their tracks - do not show them on TV,” he suggested. “The cameras should focus only on cars prepared to really race - my Jaguar Racing team, BMW Williams, McLaren, Jordan and Renault. Put Ferrari out of the picture completely and I bet it will not take long before the people who plough millions into sponsoring the scarlet machines demand a change of policy. The reason F1 is suffering a crisis is because Ferrari appear the only people who do not understand what is at stake.”

[Flying Panda]

before you flame me, my opinion is that any team as fast and dominant as Ferrari have every right to fix race and championship results to whatever they want them to be.
They have every right to break all the records.
And if the spectators dont like it, stop complaining, go and watch some other racing. COmplaining wont fix anything
If the other teams and drivers dont like it, they shouldnt complain either. Its their job to impove and make Ferrari not as dominant.

Ferrari are totally innocent, IMHO.

[Clone]

Your not sky high are you Flying Panda?

Seriously, I agree. Ferrari can do what they want - any team (even Sauber!) can do what they want. Irvine's suggestion is a very good one because it's basically saying, "Only show the fans what they want to see. Those teams that aren't interested in what the fans want to see, won't be shown to the fans. Therefore if teams want exposure, they have to do more than just being successful."

[vogtsophob]

"The cameras should focus only on cars prepared to really race - my Jaguar Racing team, BMW Williams, McLaren, Jordan and Renault. Put Ferrari out of the picture completely and I bet it will not take long before the people who plough millions into sponsoring the scarlet machines demand a change of policy. The reason F1 is suffering a crisis is because Ferrari appear the only people who do not understand what is at stake."

Brilliant idea, instead of working on getting on the top and in the focus of the cameras, ask the cameras to
focus on the midfiled pack. Could save a lot of R&D money, but is, IMHO, not really racing spirit either.

Didn't IE recently came up with the idea of him becommig a Ferrari test driver if he fails to get
a race contract anywhere? Looks like Ferrari has declined

[Mrv]

Go Eddie. You have to love the guy.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
before you flame me, my opinion is that any team as fast and dominant as Ferrari have every right to fix race and championship results to whatever they want them to be.
They have every right to break all the records.
And if the spectators dont like it, stop complaining, go and watch some other racing. COmplaining wont fix anything
If the other teams and drivers dont like it, they shouldnt complain either. Its their job to impove and make Ferrari not as dominant.

Ferrari are totally innocent, IMHO.

I quite agree, and the FIA have every right NOT to show the cars on the telecast as their manipulation of racing is bad for the sport.

[Flying Panda]

I absoulutley agree.
If had a choice of watching Michael and Rubens cruise around up front and not do anything, or watching Sato and Panis battle for 16th, what would you rather watch ?

I'd prefer to watch the Sato-Panis battle.

[X-ray]

Eddie rocks! (you too Nick )

Despite being a Schumacher fan I'm sick tired of his and Ferrari's bullshit, and the more critics towards their antics this year the better. It just might beat a little sense into Ferrari.

[KenC]

While Ferrari have the right to manage their intra-team result, it is bad for them and bad for the sport, as Eddie states. It's the old story of being legally right, but morally wrong, and in this rare case Eddie's right!

[tinman]

Now, now; where is the motormouth smiley when you need it.

[maclaren]

Eddie

[jimmy mike]

Originally posted by X-ray
Eddie rocks! (you too Nick )

Despite being a Schumacher fan I'm sick tired of his and Ferrari's bullshit, and the more critics towards their antics this year the better. It just might beat a little sense into Ferrari.

If you really are Schumacher fan, then you're the first reasonable one i've seen in this BB. Good for you!

I mean there's nothing wrong of being Schumi or even Ferrari fan (i guess ), but any racing fan should not tolerate Ferrari's current policy. If Ferrari can't appreciate their drivers freedom of race between each others, then maybe Eddie's solution could be used to stop this madness. Finally Eddie says something sensiable.

[MinardiRules]

Originally posted by Flying Panda
I absoulutley agree.
If had a choice of watching Michael and Rubens cruise around up front and not do anything, or watching Sato and Panis battle for 16th, what would you rather watch ?

I'd prefer to watch the Sato-Panis battle.

Amen to that - the fact that Ferrari dominates the points shouldn't necessarily mean that they dominate the TV coverage! If the TV coverage focussed more on the battles that are still happening, we'd have fewer people complaining that the races are becoming boring.

By the same token, lay off Minardi's money if you want true racer's on the grid!!

[jimmy mike]

Originally posted by MinardiRules


By the same token, lay off Minardi's money if you want true racer's on the grid!!

Do you call Yoong cruising around racing? If Stoddart can't come up with any other business than pay driver thing, maybe then it would be better for all if Stoddart just give up his loosing battle of surviving.

[MinardiRules]

Yoong's "crusing around" is racing! It's someone trying to go as fast as they can. He might not be very successful - but at least he's trying! Pay drivers have been part of F1 almost since inception. In fact, there are now fewer of them than ever.

Moreover, Yoong is not a threat to either himself of other drivers, which is more than you can say about some others on the grid. Or to put it another way, it wasn't Yoong who was coming backwards out of the tunnel in Monaco after being asked to pull over for his team mate.

And today he only qualified 0.309 slower than his team mate. That is less than the difference between Heidfeld and Massa.

Are you saying then that Massa isn't racing?

[Williams]

Eddie. I love the idea of the Scarlet Missles going disappearing from the tube until they learn to behave like a real race team.

My only question is: where is Rubens' role in all of this ? Schumacher is the last guy to blame, of course he is going to love not having to race his teammate. It's too bad there have to be some decent drivers, like Rubens, who are all too willing to sign anything just to drive for Ferrari.

I know of another Brazilian who would never have signed a contract like that in a million years, even before he became a champion.

[Bart]

This is the first sensible thing Eddie Irvine's said in years....

A team as dominant and Ferrari has no need for team orders. Claims by Ferrari that MS had to be given the win in Austria in case he broke his leg or something are blatant nonsense. If MS had broken his leg mid-season, Rubens would have won the WDC, and in fact it's he who would have needed the 4 extra points in Austria given his poor start to the season. This is absolutely clear from 1999. Plus they could have put Burti or Badoer in Michael's car and Ferrari drivers could probably have wrapped up the top three positions in the WDC

The 1988 McLaren was so dominant that team orders weren't required, as long as Prost and Senna didn't keep crashing into each other trying to overtake (this came later). The F2002 is the same, and Ferrari should have let their drivers race (i.e., try to overtake each other) once it became clear (in Spain or thereabouts) that everyone else was fighting for 3rd place. They may have come unstuck in one or two races, but that wouldn't have mattered and they could have always reintroduced team orders if the others started getting close.

Ferrari, just like every other team, need people to want to watch the sport, and what happened in Indy is hurting that, especially in the USA.
With a car as dominant as the F2002, they can improve the spectacle without sacrificing their duty to win championships.

[wiligates]

Amazing how the former second banana now wants TV to focus on the real battle . The Jag team fighting for credability ;)


For all the critisism of Schumacher he can only ask Ferrari for the saloon passage, its not his fault that he is being granted his every wish .If your in a position that you can tell a multi million dollar company how you'd like it to run its business then more power to him !

As for the coverage issue . I think they cover it pretty well as it is they usually do follow whatever decent battles are taking place , showing the leader on auto pilot for a lap or two then back to the mid field .

[Nasty McBastard]

this just shows irv is a wanker again,,, and anyone who beleives such tripe.

at the end of the day if any ONE team were capable of giving ferrari some stick, they wouldnt have the pleasure of being able to dick around with race results.

all it would take would be williams or mclaren to put on a show like france or sepang... then ferrari would be worried about just plain winning, as oppsed to winning in the most stylish fashion.

comments like that reek of communism.

irvine carrys on about sponsors losing interest... thats not ferraris concern. maybe if other teams lifted their game theyd get more coverage.

are ferrari supposed to be hobbled/hobble themselves just so others get a fair go? how about we whack a restrictor plate on the ferraris.

people blame ferrari for ruining F1.. thats ****. the fact other teams are so far behind is whats ruining it. everyone else needs to lift their game... simple....

if other teams got their **** together wed have closer races, no staged finishes, more coverage for non ferrari sponsors (for commies like irvine) and wed all be happy.

ferrari have done nothing wrong except be the best.

aussies hear similar things about cricket and rugby league.. mainly coz our teams are ferrari-esque...miles ahead of the rest.....

tough titties... its not our problem.. its the other teams problem

[Williams]

Originally posted by Nasty McBastard

all it would take would be williams or mclaren to put on a show like france or sepang... then ferrari would be worried about just plain winning, as oppsed to winning in the most stylish fashion.

While it is true that both McLaren and Williams, in their dominant years, were known to give away one win at the end of the season out of appreciation for the efforts of their #2 driver (Berger, Patrese), they didn't make such such a habit, or a hash of it, the way Ferrari have done.

[Nasty McBastard]

true.. ferrari screwed up at indy. i guess its just bad luck they were the first.

as for giving away races mid season.... i find it hard to beleive mansell, or senna would of knocked it back if they had of been offered total #1 status untill the c-ship was resolved.

and as a boss of a dominant team youd be crazy in a way not to let it happen either. ok, it bit ferrari on the arse in 99, but on the flip side, look at the hassles mclaren had in 88 with senna and prost.

people still need to remember melbourne...hakkinen and DC....that finish was decided upon at turn one lap one of the very first race.

atleast by austria this year it was clear which guy was the championship contender, and atleast in races like hungary they had till the 2nd pitstop to work it out.

im a schumi fan and a ferrari fan, so i admit im probably biased, but i still like a close race.

but if a team is so dominant, even before team orders come in to play, then let them dick around all they want.

its no different to something like man u v hull in a fa cup qualifier game.... if man u want to play beckham as goalie and have their forwards mess about with over the head bicycle shots at goal.. great... good on em....

[X-ray]

Originally posted by jimmy mike


If you really are Schumacher fan, then you're the first reasonable one i've seen in this BB. Good for you!

Thanks (I guess)!

I've watched him from his first race at Spa in '91, and I think one could sense he was something special. Anyway, after his brilliant first win at Spa the year after made me a fan in every sense of the word. And to repeat, doing these kinda of stunts with Ferarri have really pissed me off, it damage F1 in several ways, and it annoys me that RB's getting wins he doesn't earn. And on a personal view, it not fun being a fan and cheering Schuey to win, feeling that joy of: 'this is the last lap he's going to make it.' only be slapped in the face because: he's bored and wants to make a dead heat/ give it to little Rubens.

But that's me.

(Sorry for the rant)

[The RedBaron]

Unfortunately, as long as Jean Todt remains Ferrari team manager, there will not be any racing between their drivers! :

[Williams]

Originally posted by The RedBaron
Unfortunately, as long as Jean Todt remains Ferrari team manager, there will not be any racing between their drivers! :

Montezemolo is likely to have a say in that as well.

N.McB, I agree that the team can mess around all they want if they have that power, but I think the willingness to do that is what separates them, and Schumacher, from greatness.

[glorius&victorius]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1

“1988 season when McLaren won 15 of the 16 races was, for me, the most exciting ever because Alain Prost and the late Ayrton Senna fought tooth and nail with each other,” he said. “But Ferrari have proved they are not interested in racing. The only competition is between their two drivers, and that is not allowed to happen.

Irv is absolutely right about this one. As long as the drivers from the same team do battle, we don't care which team is superior!
Indeed 1988 was a classic season, not for McLaren's dominance, but for the two Samurai's taking their battle from one track to the other!
And I am sure everyone agrees, it was damn interesting to watch these two go against eachother. As was for Nelson against Nigel!

[MJP]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


I quite agree, and the FIA have every right NOT to show the cars on the telecast as their manipulation of racing is bad for the sport.

I am not sure about manipulation of the sport (sounds like "insider trading"), because I cannot grasp why McLarnen, Williams, or the others would let themselves to be manipulated in the first place. On the first point - you would not want to deprive me from seeing MS crusing, would you?

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by MJP


I am not sure about manipulation of the sport (sounds like "insider trading"), because I cannot grasp why McLarnen, Williams, or the others would let themselves to be manipulated in the first place. On the first point - you would not want to deprive me from seeing MS crusing, would you?

Yeah, yeah, throw the blame on others and ignore the point that Eddie is making. Come on MJP you're better than that.

[MJP]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


Yeah, yeah, throw the blame on others and ignore the point that Eddie is making. Come on MJP you're better than that.

From my so far brief stay in here it is obvious, that you like to stick to facts, R. Your perception of Ferrari is however out of that picture.

1. I do not see them talking too much (as Jordan or others do).
2. I did not read or hear about any interview they would blame anybody for anything.
3. I do not hear from neither of Ferrari's drivers to characterize other drivers (as Eddie allegedly did).
4. How Eddie can excluded Ferrari's fans, the automaker, and their marketers out of the race? Was he drinking when he had said that?

...and I can continue. I therefore remain bemused from where all that fire is coming from?

Hey, how did you enjoy qualifying? Anything special? (Pl's do not say that Miki had cheated his way to P1... )

[Ricardo F1]

Qualifying was good - as I expected (and told you repeatedly I believe ;) ) Mike was in a World of his own on this track in that car. DC was superb for 3rd and the rest panned out as expected. Very worried about McNish though, that was bad.

The point Eddie is making, however, is that if Ferrari aren't willing to race then the FIA has absolutely no obligation to show them on the telecast. Absolutely correct if you ask me. As Flying Panda said I'd also rather watch two drivers scrapping for 15th place than watch two Ferrari's troll round. Of course the biggest problem facing this is that Ferrari would first have to get a top class second driver to make this at all worthwhile, at the moment it really doesn't matter if they're racing or not, Rubens can only win at Austria it seems.

[Tomecek]

Eddie: - seriously. Ferrari's doing great job, but they should race after last pitstops.

But you're right. Ferrari shouldn't be blamed, what is to be blamed here is that Ferrari is not racing after last pitstop.

[MJP]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Qualifying was good - as I expected (and told you repeatedly I believe ;) ) Mike was in a World of his own on this track in that car. DC was superb for 3rd and the rest panned out as expected. Very worried about McNish though, that was bad.

The point Eddie is making, however, is that if Ferrari aren't willing to race then the FIA has absolutely no obligation to show them on the telecast. Absolutely correct if you ask me. As Flying Panda said I'd also rather watch two drivers scrapping for 15th place than watch two Ferrari's troll round. Of course the biggest problem facing this is that Ferrari would first have to get a top class second driver to make this at all worthwhile, at the moment it really doesn't matter if they're racing or not, Rubens can only win at Austria it seems.

O boy, here we go again. So they did race then in Austria after all, but not in any other race in which MS was ahead of RB, because that was all scripted and gifted, therefore not a scene worth for a camera to broadcast? How do we know that McLaren's or William's boys were not told the same? Hill had his comment to make about that, contradicting Head. Ferrari's management, in contrast, however told us quite openly what their policy is. Or do you like them to hide it and pretend as the others seem to occasionally do? In any race I know where we stand with Ferrari. In any race I cannot say the same about neitehr of two teams behind them. Maybe they racing, maybe there are secret orders in effect, as in the past... Why shoudl I belive anything they say? I did not read too much reminiscing of DC moving out of Mika's way, nor I would read too much of Senna taking Alain out in Japan. Maybe all this noise is coming from the fact, that no one, in comparison to MS, is so destructive, powerfull, so perfect, which makes many people devasted.

I did read your comment on the German interview. I do respect your right to think differently, but are you as critical to yourself as you are to him? You have never made a mistake and if so, for rest of your life you want others to talk about it? I thought that forget and forgive is a mark of a great person!;)

[fullcourseyellow]

Eddie is right (for once). I enjoyed the digital Bernievision coverage a lot more than the regular terrestrial coverage. They actually show us the really exciting midfield battles, instead of Ferraris parading around serenely. When you're watching Sato battling Villeneuve, at least you're anticipating action, a possible move or crash. But when you're watching MS and RB, you already know that NOTHING will ever happen. If there is not even any anticipation that something might happen, you might as well go do something else.

[random]

Eddie is completely correct, so is The Mole.

But how come every time I've pointed this out, in that "Ferrari's crime is not domination, their crime is not allowing any intra-team competition while dominating", I get these aghast responses that I must hate Ferrari and the British teams were never treated this way when they were dominating?

As Eddie points out, the British teams allowed their cars to race, even at the expense of the championship. Ferrari does not, and have caused great injury to the sport. Ferrari is also the primary responsible party for the 9 new proposals we've seen this week. And if any of them are passed, I know who I'll blame.

[MJP]

Originally posted by random
Eddie is completely correct, so is The Mole.

But how come every time I've pointed this out, in that "Ferrari's crime is not domination, their crime is not allowing any intra-team competition while dominating", I get these aghast responses that I must hate Ferrari and the British teams were never treated this way when they were dominating?

As Eddie points out, the British teams allowed their cars to race, even at the expense of the championship. Ferrari does not, and have caused great injury to the sport. Ferrari is also the primary responsible party for the 9 new proposals we've seen this week. And if any of them are passed, I know who I'll blame.

Very inaccurate, I am sorry. Crime to occur, there must be a rule in existence which was broken. Well, there is none, and therefore there is no crime. Show me who was hurt? I see massess waving flags and enjoing themselves... I enjoy myself. What do you see? To make Ferrari responsible for laughable 9 proposals, from which at least two by senile persons is just an inane act on its own.

Destruction of a sport? Well hell, I am a complex person in my own standing (I think), but I love F1 as much as I did when Alain P. was described in similar feeble terms in his days. To deny that McLaren, Williams, Sauber (from all teams we know about), haven't issued similar team orders once in a while in the past, equals to denying historical facts. I have no response to that.

[Teez]

More whining and moaning from the usual suspects.

Which teams exactly allow their driver to race after the last round of pitstops? Names, dates, events, etc.

Who here complained about McLaren allowing their drivers that ridiculous "gentlemen's agreement" to race only to the first corner at the start of every race? Thread links, please.

How many here complained about the countless other occurrences of team orders not involving Ferrari and/or Michael Schumacher in the history of the sport?

Which of the whiners here complained in Sepang '99 when Schumacher gifted Irvine with the win? Or in Germany of the same year when Salo pulled over for Irvine?

How many dunderheads here still don't understand there were no team orders in this year's US Grand Prix?
Finally, if you don't like what you see, switch the channel. Don't buy tickets to the race. And don't let the door smack you in the ass on the way out. Ciao!

[AMD]

Originally posted by Teez
Which teams exactly allow their driver to race after the last round of pitstops?

in races contested after the team has won the WDC and WCC?

[zooropa21]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1

“I have a very simple cure to stop Ferrari in their tracks - do not show them on TV,” he suggested. “The cameras should focus only on cars prepared to really race - my Jaguar Racing team, BMW Williams, McLaren, Jordan and Renault. Put Ferrari out of the picture completely and I bet it will not take long before the people who plough millions into sponsoring the scarlet machines demand a change of policy. The reason F1 is suffering a crisis is because Ferrari appear the only people who do not understand what is at stake.”

Beautiful

Cheapest solution to the problem. If Ferrari insults the sport, the sport can insult Ferrari.



Zooropa21

[random]

Ferrari's crime is not a violation of the sporting regulations, it is a worse infraction. It is a crime against the sport itself.

Bernie and Max have put a lot of pressure on Ferrari in order to get them to honor the spirit of competition in the sport. But their substantial pressure has obviously been to no avail. I believe these 9 proposals are just their way of putting further pressure on Marinello.

And I've a strong feeling that these 9 proposals will mysteriously disappear if Ferrari decide to sack Barrichello and hire a proper driver at equal status for their 2nd seat.

If Ferrari do not back down, I've little doubt that some of these proposals will pass.

As for the highly inaccurate arguments that Ferrari is doing nothing worse that the British teams have done in their periods of domination. Explain the mechanical DNF statistics between Schumacher and his team mate, explain the fact that Barichello is contracted (in writing) to pull over for Schumacher, explain the largest points spread between winning team mates in the series history. Explain the fact that Ferrari does not even bother to deny they have a "team of one".

[MJP]

Originally posted by random
Ferrari's crime is not a violation of the sporting regulations, it is a worse infraction. It is a crime against the sport itself.

Bernie and Max have put a lot of pressure on Ferrari in order to get them to honor the spirit of competition in the sport. But their substantial pressure has obviously been to no avail. I believe these 9 proposals are just their way of putting further pressure on Marinello.

And I've a strong feeling that these 9 proposals will mysteriously disappear if Ferrari decide to sack Barrichello and hire a proper driver at equal status for their 2nd seat.

If Ferrari do not back down, I've little doubt that some of these proposals will pass.

You want a challenge to figure out who had created this rather pitiful situation? How about refocus from Ferrari onto FIA with Max M., who had installed set of technical rules which had included grooved tires, traction control, less overtaking, and we can continue. All that created certain inequality, which is now boiling over. Ferrari just, as a whole, managed to make best from all what is available to them.

And you, Mr. Fan, now placing your trust into the same group of people to put it right?

PS
I forgot about your suspicion, that RB has higher rate of reliability issues then MS. You know, I am puzzled as well. Our office cleaner has won $5Mill. in some lottery, and I, who should deserve it, did not. Theory of chaos and fuzzy logic is mystery to me today, as when I have taken an interest in it, which is some time ago.

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

I like Eddie, bit his comments are f*&King unbeliev........oh.....sorry, wrong thread.

[ruther]

I liked it.

[Ricardo F1]

Originally posted by MJP


O boy, here we go again. So they did race then in Austria after all, but not in any other race in which MS was ahead of RB, because that was all scripted and gifted, therefore not a scene worth for a camera to broadcast? How do we know that McLaren's or William's boys were not told the same? Hill had his comment to make about that, contradicting Head. Ferrari's management, in contrast, however told us quite openly what their policy is. Or do you like them to hide it and pretend as the others seem to occasionally do? In any race I know where we stand with Ferrari. In any race I cannot say the same about neitehr of two teams behind them. )

What are you on about. Racing means challenging each other for position - never has happened at Ferrari. In Austria Rubens was going flat out, it was his first chance of the season to win and we know what happened. After that things became farcical. Schuey not even remotely trying to go past after the pits at Hungary or Nurburgring when any other car but red he would have been round the outside in a blink of an eye. Williams race - you may have noticed last race. McLaren race, see Canada where they allowed Kimi to keep racing to see if he could stay in front after the pit stops despite his fuel problem. He couldn't so they told him to back off and save fuel. Ferrari's policy is the only utterly blatant one in the pitlane. Tough.

[MJP]

Originally posted by Ricardo F1


What are you on about. Racing means challenging each other for position - never has happened at Ferrari. In Austria Rubens was going flat out, it was his first chance of the season to win and we know what happened. After that things became farcical. Schuey not even remotely trying to go past after the pits at Hungary or Nurburgring when any other car but red he would have been round the outside in a blink of an eye. Williams race - you may have noticed last race. McLaren race, see Canada where they allowed Kimi to keep racing to see if he could stay in front after the pit stops despite his fuel problem. He couldn't so they told him to back off and save fuel. Ferrari's policy is the only utterly blatant one in the pitlane. Tough.

I agree with you Ricardo that Ferrari perhaps should reconsider their internal policy, and let both drivers race. I have no argument with that, and the people around Luca are intelligent enough surely to discuss it in post season analysis, I hope. I did not like some races you had mentioned too much myself as well, but I do respect their decisions.

I take however an issue with strong opinions on this BB which assign current state of F1 to Ferrari alone, rather then to focus on the technical side. For example we should be seeking getting rid of grooved tires, and similar "inventions", instead wasting time whilst entertaining absurd suggestions as Eddie had made one. His proposal alone makes me to cringe, not to mention several others authored by duo of BE and MM. Improve overtaing, rethink whether we need 22 cars on the grid, which essentially is two tiers serie, etc.

With respect to "racing men", yeah, it's not as easy. The ideal is noble, reality is far from it. Whilst F. was honest with us, now in the season past, and told us what their policy has been - like it or not. We only learn however in fragments and not always in timely fashion, that team orders exists with other teams as well, and they are sometimes hidden. This alone makes for me hard to tell who is racing whom in any given moment. Random practice of such orders, Ricardo, makes mockery out of the sport we love, IMO.

With DC moving out of the Mika's way it was hidden until the move was executed, with Sauber as well, but with Hill I could not recall, until he had admitted to that. So, what do us actually see in reality? I did not however realised, that it is a matter of personal preference. I like that to be, if it has to be at all, rather the "Ferrari" way, or even better, as you had suggested, no orders, but that should include then one rule for everyone!

Anyway, its over, it was fun for me, and I am hoping you had enjoyed at least some races on your own. Its long dry period ahead of us, and I am hoping that will not turn into mud slinging all over the place. We had seen what three week did to us in August.