38 replies to this topic

[jdanton]

Suzuka's fearsome 130R will be changed in 2003. The corner will be re-profiled to turn in earlier and become more of a curve than a corner, with more run-off on the outside. There's no news if it well be renamed, as 130R stands for 130 degrees Radius.


The extra run off is good, but re-profiling it sucks, now Blanchimont is the only real corner left in F1.

[Viss1]

Oh for the love of...

Will the meddling EVER STOP?

[MONTOYASPEED]

Source?

[917k]

Umm,how about eau rouge,pouhon,stavalot,dunlop,''the snake'',tabac,swimming pool,the tunnel,casino,becketts,bridge,stowe etc.etc.Good corners don't all have to be 7th gear sweepers

As it is,I will wait to see what the new 130r looks like.But it was only a matter of time before the lack of runoff was addressed.
A frontal impact and Mcnish would be dead and we would be screaming about how inept the track safety was.It is a miracle that someone hasn't died there recently.Not that I want to see change,I love that corner,but I understand the reasoning.

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by jdanton
There's no news if it well be renamed, as 130R stands for 130 degrees Radius.

If they do rename it, they should call it 'McNish.'

[CONOSUR]

Actually, they only need to reprofile the runoff area, not the track.

[Openwheels]

Yeah, you think it has anything to do with Mcnish's accident?

The TRAVESTY!!

Someone is behaving responsibly. HOW DARE THEY!!!

[Sir Frank]

we had that one coming. Im not even angry anymore.

[Sir Frank]

Originally posted by Openwheels
Yeah, you think it has anything to do with Mcnish's accident?

The TRAVESTY!!

Someone is behaving responsibly. HOW DARE THEY!!!

You could candidate for Max!

Ok lets bulldoze all the real corners where an accident has taken place. In a few years time we will only have at most 3rd gear corners. Thats what I call racing!

The crowd is not watching F1 because its not galdiator staff anymore. They dont care about Ferrari domination or non passing (this has happened before) they want racing, with accidents, high speed corners, real racing drivers with strong personalities, who speak their minds. Not these push over non-men who currently are in fashion.

I dont know about you but the best moments of the Japanese GP weekend were that when Sato went through 130R, every time awesome controll. That was racing! Just like McNishs accident, but nothing has happened to the guy thank God!
Maybe there isnt enough room to create a big enough run off area, but surely killing all the great corners is not the ideal solution!

They are killing 130R (they should have known about the problems before the accident, if they didnt they are a bunch of idiots who are not working at a good standard to say the least), what about the wall after the hairpin at Hockenheim, how on earth did they approve that? Idiots. If you have seen the DTM race you will know what I talk about. Alesi nearly got killed in there.

[917k]

Sad fact[but one that few are able to accept]is that F1 is no longer about defying death each time you step in the car.
This is the age of correctness,and such a notion is archaic.I'm not an advocate of the idea,but the fact is inescapable.

If you can't get over this simple fact,the nostalga forum will fit the bill.

[Toyoter]

This sucks, but don't blame McNish.

[MCh000]

I hope the change will bring the good thing - overtaking at the end of the stright (even now it is almost possible). It is said it will not be the corner but a curve. If the cars will be able follow each other more closely I'm for it.

[jdanton]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Source?

PlanetF1.

[Sir Frank]

Originally posted by 917k
Sad fact[but one that few are able to accept]is that F1 is no longer about defying death each time you step in the car.
This is the age of correctness,and such a notion is archaic.I'm not an advocate of the idea,but the fact is inescapable.

If you can't get over this simple fact,the nostalga forum will fit the bill.

The sad news is that the majority of the F1 crowd would have to go nostalgic. But not because there are no deaths (even that is saidly a factor), but because of the lack of human courage, personality and confrontation in F1.

Thats what they love, thats what creates those strong emotions. - Larger human involvement. -
Anybody can sympatize with a driver, but never with a car. 99% of the people who watch F1 are fans who watch the races, cheer for their favourite driver and personify in him. They read the papers on Monday, but their intrest stops there. They dont care for super techology or behind the scenes interviews with team bosses. They see it as a battle, if their driver wins, they feel they have won. These are the customers whoes needs should be satisfied, only that way would F1 be really popular again.

------------------

Age of correctness - might just be an age, in which people like to describe themselves as correct persons so that they become invulnerable and can look in the mirror without spitting on it.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Excuse me, but destroying a legendary corner is not the solution to the overtaking problems. If they are so desperate to create overtaking spots in Suzuka, they could eliminate the chicane and tighten the first corner. In my opinion, leave the Suzuka track as is; there are many more other tracks for Bernie&co to play with.

[jdanton]

Originally posted by 917k
As it is,I will wait to see what the new 130r looks like.But it was only a matter of time before the lack of runoff was addressed.
A frontal impact and Mcnish would be dead and we would be screaming about how inept the track safety was.It is a miracle that someone hasn't died there recently.Not that I want to see change,I love that corner,but I understand the reasoning.

917,

Do you really think they need to redo the corner? I think just adding more runoff would suffice. (Although I don't know if there is much room for runoff there)

[Slyder]

another pathetic kneejerk reaction.

Congrats Max, this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You have no clue about safety issues even if it were staring at you.

You can't difference between safety and speed.

Instead of just getting rid of that mound or adding a more extense run off area, or even putting a proper tire barrier or wall (which was one of the main reasons why McNish's car destroyed the Armco) its better to just hack the corner out and make it a 3rd/2nd gear corner.

Yeah, I hear you Max "WE NEED TO SLOW DOWN THE CARS." yeah, slow down the cars, so we have less accidents and less big crashes like this. yeah, eventhough you don't realize that a car could've gone over at 65 miles let alone 165, and then you insult the intelligence of every fan in the F1 community by bringing grooved tyres and crap aerodynamics with the excuse of making them "safer and slower."

You spoke of the same trash back at Melbourne 2001 when that marshall was killed, and once again you believe that slowing the cars down is the issue why so many accidents.

tell you what. Why not we run with regular sedan motors?

You don't realize that in this sport someone is always going to come out injured no matter what. Drivers know this, everyone knows this. But for the look of it you don't know or refuse to know. You're better off seeing every challenging corner in every circuit being hacked off and becoming a chicane or a hairpin or a right angle corner, and then you sit and scratch your head and wonde WHY THE HELL THE RACES ARE SO BORING!!!

Nice going Max, what's next? Adding a chicene at Eau rouge, or at Blanchimont? or ripping Spa and turn it into a smaller mickey mouse track?

add more chicanes at monza?

rip out more tracks like Hockenheim?

A pox on you Max, I hope you're happy with what you've done. Thanks for mucking my favourite sport

[Openwheels]

So when are you going to just write off the sport entirely? Do you just sit at your computer and seeth? Do you break stuff?

50 nuts says the change is minor...the biggest of it being more run off.

[alfaracer.com]

If they are that worried about accidents thay will have to reprofile it so that they can rename it 180R. That should solve the problem.

[Ali_G]

The changes are in Autosport and are very small. If anything, the corner still mightn't be taken flat out. Less grippy tarmac might be layed down to make sure of this.

Seriously though, only very minor changes.

Niall

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Openwheels
So when are you going to just write off the sport entirely? Do you just sit at your computer and seeth? Do you break stuff?

50 nuts says the change is minor...the biggest of it being more run off.

Mmm, something tells me that Openwheels is using the same tactics he used against Don Capps and Buford.

Ain't that something?

Hopefully there will be minor changes, but I won't be surprised if a chicane is placed in that corner. You know who to blame.

[jk]

I don't think the R stands for Radius... the corner is clearly NOT 130R!

And secondly, it would be impossible to add more runoff because the track is just on the other side of the runoff...

[Openwheels]

Originally posted by Slyder
Mmm, something tells me that Openwheels is using the same tactics he used against Don Capps and Buford.

and what exactly is that? The tactic of disagreeing?

[MrBreaker]

Originally posted by Slyder
another pathetic kneejerk reaction.

Congrats Max, this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You have no clue about safety issues even if it were staring at you.

You can't difference between safety and speed.

Instead of just getting rid of that mound or adding a more extense run off area, or even putting a proper tire barrier or wall (which was one of the main reasons why McNish's car destroyed the Armco) its better to just hack the corner out and make it a 3rd/2nd gear corner.

Yeah, I hear you Max "WE NEED TO SLOW DOWN THE CARS." yeah, slow down the cars, so we have less accidents and less big crashes like this. yeah, eventhough you don't realize that a car could've gone over at 65 miles let alone 165, and then you insult the intelligence of every fan in the F1 community by bringing grooved tyres and crap aerodynamics with the excuse of making them "safer and slower."

You spoke of the same trash back at Melbourne 2001 when that marshall was killed, and once again you believe that slowing the cars down is the issue why so many accidents.

tell you what. Why not we run with regular sedan motors?

You don't realize that in this sport someone is always going to come out injured no matter what. Drivers know this, everyone knows this. But for the look of it you don't know or refuse to know. You're better off seeing every challenging corner in every circuit being hacked off and becoming a chicane or a hairpin or a right angle corner, and then you sit and scratch your head and wonde WHY THE HELL THE RACES ARE SO BORING!!!

Nice going Max, what's next? Adding a chicene at Eau rouge, or at Blanchimont? or ripping Spa and turn it into a smaller mickey mouse track?

add more chicanes at monza?

rip out more tracks like Hockenheim?

A pox on you Max, I hope you're happy with what you've done. Thanks for mucking my favourite sport

Ooooh Slyder you got me seething mad Just the thought of putting in a chicane at eau rouge gets my blood boiling. More chicanes at Monza? Man, I'm about to go postal. I know that you're making a point, but you may not be too far off the mark in a few years time.

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by MrBreaker
...Just the thought of putting in a chicane at eau rouge gets my blood boiling...

Actually, they ran with a chicane there, at Eau Rouge, before climbing up through Radillon (the hill), in '94 as one of the first knee-jerk reactions to Senna's death. The wierd part, iIrc, is that it was done at the request of the drivers!

[MrBreaker]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Actually, they ran with a chicane there, at Eau Rouge, before climbing up through Radillon (the hill), in '94 as one of the first knee-jerk reactions to Senna's death. The wierd part, iIrc, is that it was done at the request of the drivers!

What a debauchery that must've been!

[SeanValen]

I'll be preying for 130 R this weekend. 130r won't give up without a fight, these great corners are characters themself, almost alive.

[Openwheels]

Originally posted by Ali_G
The changes are in Autosport and are very small. If anything, the corner still mightn't be taken flat out. Less grippy tarmac might be layed down to make sure of this.

Seriously though, only very minor changes.

Niall

Don't let reality come up behind y'all and bite ya...

Thanks Niall. Figured as much.

[Schummy]

The saddest thing for me is those changes affect the track for others series. Great tracks are "down-modified" and we lost them not just for F1, even it hurts bike racing.

An exception is Jerez where I'm happy to be bikes racing bypassing that chicane ironicaly called "Senna"; but it surely is because Jerez makes big money with bikes. Otherwise F1 tends to rule.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by Schummy
The saddest thing for me is those changes affect the track for others series. Great tracks are "down-modified" and we lost them not just for F1, even it hurts bike racing.

An exception is Jerez where I'm happy to be bikes racing bypassing that chicane ironicaly called "Senna"; but it surely is because Jerez makes big money with bikes. Otherwise F1 tends to rule.

Like to see Jerez back on the calender, maybe when it is, Bar will be title challengers, and Jacques and Michael Jerez part 2.

Agreed though, changes of 130 r, effect other formulas, not really fair to everyone like that.

[Schummy]

OT:

Sean, Viss1, greetings from GTP zone ;)

[Real Estate Queen]

I may be wrong, but I think 130R means that the curve is part of a circumference with a radius of 130 meters.

[TAB666]

Originally posted by Toyoter
This sucks, but don't blame McNish.

who should we then blame ? A newbie like McNish throwing away the car ...... the commentators even said it looked like a rookie misstake ( commentators that are raceing themself ) nad it sure looked like a crapy way to take the corner ... not like SATO !

They have already destroyed eau rouge There was no problem for the cars to go flatout on the new tarmac.

Real Estate Queen : You are right about that

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Openwheels


and what exactly is that? The tactic of disagreeing?

actually the tacting of rambling pointless posts but not coming with an argument.

[Openwheels]

Arguement:

The changes are minor.

[Openwheels]

Originally posted by Slyder
another pathetic kneejerk reaction.

Congrats Max, this just proves how much of an idiot you are. You have no clue about safety issues even if it were staring at you.

You can't difference between safety and speed.

Instead of just getting rid of that mound or adding a more extense run off area, or even putting a proper tire barrier or wall (which was one of the main reasons why McNish's car destroyed the Armco) its better to just hack the corner out and make it a 3rd/2nd gear corner.

Yeah, I hear you Max "WE NEED TO SLOW DOWN THE CARS." yeah, slow down the cars, so we have less accidents and less big crashes like this. yeah, eventhough you don't realize that a car could've gone over at 65 miles let alone 165, and then you insult the intelligence of every fan in the F1 community by bringing grooved tyres and crap aerodynamics with the excuse of making them "safer and slower."

You spoke of the same trash back at Melbourne 2001 when that marshall was killed, and once again you believe that slowing the cars down is the issue why so many accidents.

tell you what. Why not we run with regular sedan motors?

You don't realize that in this sport someone is always going to come out injured no matter what. Drivers know this, everyone knows this. But for the look of it you don't know or refuse to know. You're better off seeing every challenging corner in every circuit being hacked off and becoming a chicane or a hairpin or a right angle corner, and then you sit and scratch your head and wonde WHY THE HELL THE RACES ARE SO BORING!!!

Nice going Max, what's next? Adding a chicene at Eau rouge, or at Blanchimont? or ripping Spa and turn it into a smaller mickey mouse track?

add more chicanes at monza?

rip out more tracks like Hockenheim?

A pox on you Max, I hope you're happy with what you've done. Thanks for mucking my favourite sport

This of course by your definition is a post with a point and full of arguements.

Looks like a total rant to me.

[Flying Panda]

one question.

why ?

[umma gumma]

I tell you, NERF would have a marketing MONSTER if they started advertising in F1.

all the barriers could be NERF barriers

I bet if they put up some NERF barriers where McNish crashed, it would have helped immensely.

I think it's brilliant.....LOL

[doohanOK]

http://www.forix.com...aerial-1987.jpg

It's a dated photo (1987) from forix.com, but looking at the circuit itself, there isn't much runoff anyway, because the last corner(s) from the Esses and the short chute before the Degner curves don't allow much runoff.

Is making the corner more straighter, so to speak, going to induce more passing into the Chicane?

Another thing that might be worth considering, is to make the runoff at 130R a bit flatter - McNish's car got airborne over some bumps, a reminder of what happened to the late Greg Moore some three years ago.

Has anyone got a more recent photo overhead of Suzuka??

regards,
doohanOK.