25 replies to this topic

[Louis Mr. F1]

Hi all, I got the following story from a book, it's about his 1992 season at Benetton, just want to share with you guys.

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Martin had great rapport with Pat Fry, his engineer. He would describe the handling of the car in the most extraordinary ways to Pat.

'I just can't get on it!' he would say, 'It's all wishy-washy, I just can't get on it, it's like a speedboat!' Another memorable line was, 'I feel like the car's riding on the track, not in it, I need to get into the track more!' Pat would listen and scribble copious notes, translating his driver's colourful descriptions into mathematical percentages of understeer and oversteer, and calculating possible solutions to reduce the car's speed boaty-ness. Martin is quite aware of the technicalities of car set up, it's just that he loved to play the game with Pat. In Adelaide, the last race of the season, he finally had Pat completely stumped. The mechanics had primed Martin before the practice session and he carried it off flawlessly. After completing a five lap run in the car, Martin returned to the garage to discuss the need for any changes. As we pulled the car back inside the garage, Pat keyed his radio and asked Martin how the car felt.
'I just can't drive it, Pat, it's way too stage coachy!'
'Sorry, i think i missed that, martin, say it again'
'it's way too stage coachy, we'll have to do something'
'Sorry Martin, did you say stage coachy?'
'Yes, you know, much too like a stage coach!'
'yes, i understand that stage coachy must mean taking on the characteristics of a stage coach, Martin. It's just that I haven't got the faintest idea what on earth you're talking about!'

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Now, when we talked about Martin, it's mostly about him as a commentator, but what do you remmeber him as a racer?

I remember his 89 Monaco race, where he was running competitively in the little funded Brabham team until a flat battery which caused him several minute in the pit. Afterward, he charged back to finish 6th.


Does anyone know why he went to the Zakspeed team in 87? did he not get another offer?
what about the 90 season, after his impressive 89 season, why he couldn't get a good offer for 1990 and left for sports car?

[philhitchings]

nice story


I remember him when he was team mates with Blundell at Ligier they were know as the rost beef boys in France that year.

but like your story I remember the points not gained I suppose Hungary is one the stays as it is one that Martin himself often refers to.

[Breadmaster]

i remember martin as a very accomplished racer who could never get into a team at the right time, bearing in mind he drove for several WCC winning teams at the wrong time, the best car/chance he ever had was Benneton 1992.........bloody schumacher again......

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Breadmaster
i remember martin as a very accomplished racer who could never get into a team at the right time, bearing in mind he drove for several WCC winning teams at the wrong time

or maybe the driver was wrong

[daSilvium]

I remember him as a very strong racer, but not perhaps the greatest qualifier in the world.

I recall Jonathan Palmer (ex-F1 driver and team-mate of Alesi) who used to commentate for the BBC, once said "let's face it, Martin can't qualify".

a bit harsh perhaps ...

[Breadmaster]

yeah, it's true martin was always a better racer than qualifier........similar to jos verstappen in that regard yesno?

[TenTenths]

Great story.

I believe that passage is from Steve Matchett's book "A Mechanics Tale", correct.

I suggest everyone here read this book. After reading this it makes me want to pick it up for another go round.

The story I remeber most from the book is the part about the '92 Williams with the active suspension. Steve said he would take walks down the pit lane at night and the FW14 would be all alone in the garage running through it's active suspension diagnostics. He said the car looked alive and very eerie moving about on its own with absolutely no one around.

cheers

[daSilvium]

In a similar vein, I had heard rumours that a few years ago (early to mid nineties??) one of the teams (McLaren or Williams I think) was rumoured to have got a driverless F1 car doing laps of a circuit.

It was programmed to know exactly where it was at any time and how much throttle, brake and steering to make.

no idea if these rumours were true.

anybody got any ideas on this one?

[TODave2]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
Does anyone why he went to the Zakspped team in 87? did he not get another offer?

If memory serves, he had a choice of either pootling around in the Tyrrell with a Cosworth or (he thought) moving up the grid in the turbo Zakspeed. As it happens, Brundle and Jonathan Palmer swapped teams and Palmer promptly won the Jim Clark cup for normally aspirated drivers.... with Brundle having a terrible year in the Zakspeed. I seem to recall reading at the time something like 'Palmer definitely got the better deal' and there was a certain irony to it because Palmer had been doing okay with Zakspeed for a number of years, Brundle had been trundling around in the Tyrrell for 3 years, and the moment they swapped Zakspeed go crap and Palmer wins the Clark Cup...

I remember Brundle in the Zakspeed running in about 5th place at Imola and the thing conked out with 2 or 3 laps to go. There was an excellent series of photos of Brundle getting out with the quick release steering wheel in his hand and instead of just calmly reaching into the cockpit to re-attach it he raised it above his head and absolutedly chucked the wheel into the seat in frustration. I believe the caption for the photos was something like 'Take that you piece of shi...'

[mikedeering]

I think Martin was never the same driver after his 1984 smash at Dallas.

He had a good start to 1984, and was often quicker than Bellof. But he also had a few major shunts - firstly at Monaco in qualifying, where he failed to qualify as a result. He then had an excellent race at Detroit, finishing 2nd (and in doing so kicking off the fuel additives row that eventually led to Tyrrell being thrown out of the championship).

During that race he pulled off a risky move on Piquet near the end of the race to take 2nd, but it worked for him - he himself now states he was a little cocky at that time. Ken Tyrrell and Jackie Stewart both chastised him for the move, but Brundle at the time was overjoyed with 2nd place and didn't heed their advice to slow down. At the next race Brundle was confident of pole (in the only DFV car in the race!) and promptly had a major smash that put him out for the remainder of the season (only missed 5 races I believe since Tyrrell were banned soon after Zandvoort).

After that, I don't think he was ever the same driver.

As for 1987 - he apparently had a few offers for 1987, but wanted to stay with Tyrrell. By the Mexican round of 1986, Brundle had heard nothing of Tyrrell's plans for 1987. He queried this with Ken, who effectively said "We have no budget and no engine". Martin took this as meaning "look elsewhere" for a drive - so promptly did so. He figured Zakspeed would be a good bet - they had a turbo for 1987 for example. In fact, he scored 5th place at the second GP of the year - Zakspeed's only points. But the rest of the year was a waste. Ironically, Tyrrell eventually got the Ford V8 and a half-decent budget and as well as dominating the atmo class, also finished as high as 4th that year.

After that, Brundle became a bit more selective in his drives. He knew he could easily get work with Jaguar in sportscars through his links with Tom Walkinshaw, and would not stay in F1 for the sake of it. He had a one-off drive with Williams at Spa 1988 and this opened his eyes somewhat to what a decent F1 team was all about - I think after that he expected certain standards from an F1 team, and if a decent team wasn't available he would rather not race in F1.

I guess this is why he opted out of F1 in 1990 despite some decent performances in 1989 for Brabham.

He did race for some decent teams, but it tended to be at the wrong time - like McLaren in 1994. He faired poorly against MS in qualifying at Benetton in 1992, but often was right on the ball in the races. After a poor start to 1992, which I think cost him his place in the team, he gave some excellent performances, such as at Silverstone where he battled with Senna all through the race and finished 3rd. He also nearly won in Montreal but his car let him down.

[Louis Mr. F1]

this is the 84 monaco accident



Williams drive at Spa


and this is the 'stage-coachy' Benetton at Adelaide

[TODave2]

Originally posted by mikedeering
During that race he pulled off a risky move on Piquet near the end of the race to take 2nd, but it worked for him - he himself now states he was a little cocky at that time.

Pedantic - Piquet won the race, so who did Brundle actually overtake for 2nd? (I'm quite curious to know now!). Piquet's was a 'lights-to-flag' win, I don't think he ever ran 2nd (could be wrong).

[Manson]

Originally posted by TODave2


Pedantic - Piquet won the race, so who did Brundle actually overtake for 2nd? (I'm quite curious to know now!). Piquet's was a 'lights-to-flag' win, I don't think he ever ran 2nd (could be wrong).

Yes, Piquet did lead flag to flag in 84 after the race was restarted after a big first lap shunt involving Piquet, Mansell and Albereto. Piquet eased up at the end big time so the very close second for Martin is a little deceiving. Plus Martin was disqualified for traces of additives in their "ballast" tank.

[daSilvium]

The 1984 Monaco crash looks very nasty indeed.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Martin walked back to the pits after that incident and was ready to go out in the spare car. Ken Tyrell asked him, "Are you sure you're OK?" Brundle replied "Yeah - but what circuit are we at?" Tyrell told him to forget it for the weekend.

[Fastcar]

I rated Martin very highly afterall he has been team mates to Michael Schumacher and Mika Hakkinen I dont rekon Martin was any worse than Mansell he was great at Monaco too.

[Zawed]

I reckon Brundle to be quite good, he kept Schumacher honest at Benetton in his race performances, but his qualifying must have been held against him. One of the what ifs of F1 must be Canada in 92 when something minor (a bolt dropping out) stopped him while he was catching Berger for the race lead...

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by TODave2


Pedantic - Piquet won the race, so who did Brundle actually overtake for 2nd? (I'm quite curious to know now!). Piquet's was a 'lights-to-flag' win, I don't think he ever ran 2nd (could be wrong).

Grrr! Looked on Forix lap chart but of course Tyrrell's results have been removed! Why they rewrote history for Tyrrell I don't know - MS still shows up in all the 1997 results!!!

Elio de Angelis was 2nd, so I think it may have been him. He was 32s off of Piquet though at the end (Brundle was 0.8s off) - which means Martin must have really motored!!!

[confucius]

I remember hearing Martin say something about him having an accident that left his foot hanging on by a flap or skin or something along those lines. Was it during the Suzuka race that he mentioned this? I can't remember, but does anyone know what happened?

[Rediscoveryx]

Originally posted by confucius
I remember hearing Martin say something about him having an accident that left his foot hanging on by a flap or skin or something along those lines. Was it during the Suzuka race that he mentioned this? I can't remember, but does anyone know what happened?

I guess he was referring to his Dallas accident

[Zmeej]

Thanks for the stories folks!

Remember him as feisty and mischevious and better than either Herbert or Hill, but as those above have pointed out, not as good as Damon at qualifying and development.

Unfortunately, no single moment stands out...

[FredF1]

Slightly OT.

Anyone catch 'Alan Partridge' on the box last night?

There was a picture of a B192 at a street circuit (Monaco?) hanging on the wall of Alan's mobile ("Stationary") home.

Looked like Brundle's helmet in the cockpit - Well, seeing as Martin and Alan are two of Norfolks favourite sons......

[Liquid]

Yep I saw that too.

[TODave2]

Ah, of course! I saw the picture and couldn't work out the significance!


Re: the flap of skin crash. I think that's more likely to be Herbert's F3000 Brands Hatch smash. I know that it was some 5 or 6 years later that the last bit of grass worked it's way out of the scar...

[nfa]

I really can't remember when or where it was but I do recall his comment after his Sauber (I think) went over the back of the car in front at the start and rolled about 3 times.... "After the first couple of rolls I decided that this wasn't very funny anymore."..... cracked me up at the time... guess you had tobe there

[Zmeej]

Don't blush, nfa

I'm there!