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#851 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 14:55

Re. Carter;
No and yes, I believe so are the answers accordingly. Chuck Weyants first IndyCar race was 1952

Any idea if Neal Carter was also known as 'Sailor'? If not, does anyone happen to know who 'Sailor' was? Probably raced out of Arizona, New Mexico or Texas, 1940s. Likely in midgets.



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#852 Sharman

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 15:48

Any idea if Neal Carter was also known as 'Sailor'? If not, does anyone happen to know who 'Sailor' was? Probably raced out of Arizona, New Mexico or Texas, 1940s. Likely in midgets.

If you find out Richard do say "Hello" for :rotfl: me



#853 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 17:43

Any idea if Neal Carter was also known as 'Sailor'? If not, does anyone happen to know who 'Sailor' was? Probably raced out of Arizona, New Mexico or Texas, 1940s. Likely in midgets.


Neal and Vic Carter were from Northwestern Ohio, and typically raced only in neighbouring regions - the furthest south I have any of them starting is Nashville/TN, still a long way from Texas, let alone New Mexico or Arizona. I think I know who you mean by "Sailor": in the late forties, a driver with a name somewhere between Sailor Corder and Saylor Conder raced Midgets in Texas. I have seen his hometown listed as New York City, but I think that's promoter BS.

#854 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 18:14

Thanks, Michael. FWIW, if my source - likely copied from an American press release by a Mexican paper - is correct, then Sailor Carter is correct. One of six drivers who raced at Cuidad Juarez in 1944. I've identified four of the others - all of whose names were published correctly - but the sixth ran under a nom de course; 'Easy Money'. :lol:



#855 ReWind

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 20:13

Richard,
according to this database John Dalton died in January 1998.

Maybe you can verify this piece of info.



#856 Michael Ferner

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 21:05

Richard, I did a little research job on "Sailor", and by far the most hits (more than two dozens) come with the spelling "Sailor Corder", in Texas and Arkansas papers over a period from 1938 to '41. His hometown is again given as NYC on a couple of occasions, but more often as Oklahoma City, which sounds far more plausible, and once Kansas City.

"Easy Money" - can't help you with that one, except maybe for a bit of lateral thinking: there was a Midget racer from Indiana at the time, by the name of Bud Moneymaker.

#857 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 21:17

Richard,
according to this database John Dalton died in January 1998.

Maybe you can verify this piece of info.

 

That database does copy, or use, rather, a lot of info from WATN and I think I know where that date has come from. What it has done though is reminded me to chase Mike Dalton, JD's stepson, for a full death date and more details, which I've just done. Mike contacted me in January but I must admit with other things going on I've forgotten to pursue this one.



#858 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 21:47

Richard, I did a little research job on "Sailor", and by far the most hits (more than two dozens) come with the spelling "Sailor Corder", in Texas and Arkansas papers over a period from 1938 to '41. His hometown is again given as NYC on a couple of occasions, but more often as Oklahoma City, which sounds far more plausible, and once Kansas City.

"Easy Money" - can't help you with that one, except maybe for a bit of lateral thinking: there was a Midget racer from Indiana at the time, by the name of Bud Moneymaker.

Michael - I of course defer to your research on 'Sailor'! But I doubt it's Mr Moneymaker - the others are all from states on the Mexican border and I think the whole thing may have been organised by Elar 'Tubby' Gonzales, who was later a leading light in NASCAR.



#859 lotuspoweredbyford

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 20:52

  Such a shame  FranK Burany died a week before the 100th 500  , looks like he visited the track in april so  it musta happened rather quickly .

 

  As  a side note :  I noticed a driver named Neal Carter  ran some Indy car races in 1949.  Is he any any relation to Duane Carter ?  Also is he the last known surviving starter of an Indy Car race from the 1940's   now that  Mr  Burany  has died?

 

I saw Neal Carter at IMS this past May. He was in a wheelchair, but always enjoying himself, he's quite a guy !!! 



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#860 Lemnpiper

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 05:38

  This brings up another  question .

 

   Guys like Carter, Liquori,  Jigger  , when they show up  , even though they didn't make any of the 500's  are they treated well by the speedway staff and fans  who know who they are?

 

   I tend to believe many stories of why they didn't qualify are as good as those told by the guys who did.



#861 E1pix

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 06:46

On your second and third names, do you mean Al Loquasto and Jigger Sirois -- from the '70s?

#862 ensign14

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Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:17

Probably Ralph Ligouri for the second.



#863 ReWind

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 17:57

Something to think about regarding Carl Haas' true age and origin:
Obituary from the New York Times (by Bruce Weber]
 

Most news reports have said that Mr. Haas was born in 1930 and was 86 at his death. But a spokesman for the company said he was 87.
...
Most sources say Mr. Haas was born in Chicago on Feb. 26, 1930, but the company spokesman said he was born in Germany in 1929. A 1985 article in The Chicago Tribune reported that his father, who sold leather goods, left Germany in the 1930s, apparently for Chicago, where Carl went to Hyde Park High School, Woodrow Wilson Junior College (now Kennedy-King College, part of the City Colleges of Chicago) and the Illinois Institute of Technology.

 
EDIT:
Wenban Funeral Home gives his birthday as February 2nd, 1929. A typo?


Edited by ReWind, 25 July 2016 - 18:09.


#864 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 21:16

A typo - http://interactive.a...007787550_00252 confirms the date; 26/2/1929.

 

1940 US Census, naturalisation records and the funeral home all confirm Carl was born in 1929. I think because 1930 was such common "knowledge" it never occured to double check.

 

Carl moved to the US on the 4th March 1938 on the SS Washington from Hamburg-New York. Son of Else and Ernest Haas.

 

Haas was born in Ludwigshafen.



#865 Bob Simbel

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 19:41

About De Filippis Maria Teresa the correct birthplace is Marigliano (not Mariglione), Naples.

 

I have found some references about her birthdate on 6th November instead of 11th November 1926 but I think they are mistakes...

 

but a lot of deathdate 8th instead of 9th... I don't know...

 

:wave:


Edited by Bob Simbel, 05 September 2016 - 20:02.


#866 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 22:04

Latest updates to: http://www.oldracing...m/drivers/watn/

 

2016/2017 Updates

Abiteboul, Aleshin, Button, R Byrne, Bourdais, Bottas, Calcagni, di Grassi, De Silvestro, Dixon, di Resta, Eeckelaert, C Fittipaldi, Galopin, Grosjean, Ide, Hildebrand, Hinchcliffe, Hulkenberg, Julian, Kimball, Klien, Kvyat, Lancieri, Legge, Lowndes, J Lopez, Massa, Michael, Montoya, Newgarden, Perez, Preston, Pruett, Power, Raikkonen, G Rahal, Sainz, Sospiri, Vettel, Bandoorne, Viso, Zonta

 

General WATN

Brooks T, Chandhok, Carlson, Dalmas, Fetterman, Gollin, Hagenbauer, Y Muller. K Rosberg, Sauber, Scheld, M Smith (Indy racer), Trolle

 

Deaths

Amon, Alsup, Adamowicz, N Brown, Clauson, Guelfi, Haas (changed birthplace and date)

 

New

Enerson, Ocon, Stroll

 

New Info

Goode, Rooney - FULL death details

Grupp, F O'Connell, Royer - birthplace

Mantova- FULL birth and death details

Marmiroli, E Maserati, Mingotti, L Niccolini, L Pederzani, B Robinson, Rieder, Sterzel,  - FULL birth details

 

Changed Info

Donaldson - changed date of death

Filip, Loquasto, Merzney, Tyler - change of birthplace

E George, Matsubara - birthdate

Lipper - change of birthyear

B Schroeder - changed birthyear, WATN and full death details

Selser - change of birth and deathplaces

 

Other

Riccardo Patrese interview - http://www.oldracing...ccardo-Patrese/

(Two more to come soon; Ellen Lohr and Mar Surer)

GP Totals updated

 

Thanks

Philip Fetterman - Fetterman

Csaba Varga - George

Norio Matsubara - himself

Penny Whitaker - Norm Brown

Rewind - Merzney, Rieder, Royer, Donaldon and Lipper

and last but not least, Adriano Brunelli for L Niccolini, Mantova, Marmiroli, Sterzel, E Maserati, Mingotti and L Pederzani.


Edited by Richard Jenkins, 07 November 2016 - 22:05.


#867 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 10:22

Hi there Richard :).

 

I see you have Greg Weld's date of birth as "04 Mar 1944". The 1972 edition of the USAC Auto Racing Yearbook lists him as born on "April 3, 1944". Obviously a 04/03 date format confusion here. My guess is you already knew about this, and I would tend to take your information as the correct one, but as I did not find any mention of it in the thread I thought I'd let you know.

 

Apart from different years of birth listed for Al Loquasto (1943), Rick Muther (1936), Sammy Sessions (1936), Carl Williams (1932) and Denny Zimmerman (1940), all of which I think you have proved to be erroneous through your research in the various social security databases and similar indexes, the only other discrepency I could spot with your data is John Martin's birth date : given as "March 20, 1939" in the USAC book vs. WATN's March 30.



#868 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 22:29

Hi Frank,

Yep, just to summarise:

Greg Weld was March 4th - http://www.tributes....g-Weld-83916639

 

The subsequent deaths of Muther, Loquasto, Sessions and Williams revealed age fudges but I only found out about Denny's this year when he told me his real age when I interviewed him.

 

The one I'm open to discussion about is John Martin. I've only ever had it down as the 30th but there's a few sources that say the 20th. Unfortunately his name is too common to try and drill into this one.



#869 Frank Verplanken

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:40

Thanks for the precisions Richard !



#870 Michael Ferner

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 20:35

Thanks, Michael. FWIW, if my source - likely copied from an American press release by a Mexican paper - is correct, then Sailor Carter is correct. One of six drivers who raced at Cuidad Juarez in 1944. I've identified four of the others - all of whose names were published correctly - but the sixth ran under a nom de course; 'Easy Money'. :lol:


"Easy Money" also raced Big cars in Texas in 1937 (Sportsman's Park in Dallas). Likely the same person.

#871 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 20:20

Latest updates for http://www.oldracing...m/drivers/watn/

 

(This is aside from the updates where I'm filling out the entries, only 400 to go now)

 

2017 Updates:

Barrichello, Bleekemolen, Briscoe, Bjork, A Campos, Chilton, di Grassi, C Daly, Dalziel, Fisichella, Glock, Gutierrez, Goossens, Hawksworth, M Halliday, W Henzler, Iida, Johansson, Karam, Kovalainen, Kox, Kubica, Lotterer, M Lauda, K Magnussen, McDowell, Marozzo, McQuilliam, Munoz, Ocon, Jolyon Palmer, K Nakajima, Pigot, B Rice, D Ryan, B Senna, Skaife, Sarrazin, Vautier, Vergne, Vasseur, Wyss, Wehrlein, Manfred Winkelhock

 

General WATN Updates

Aiello, Almondo, Albon, Brand, Brun, J Burton, Caliri, Camponiosi, Dennis, Ecclestone, A Fernandez, Gagliardi, Bruce Hill, Hollansworth Jr, J Hubbard, Korten, Parnelli Jones, Livio, Leboissitier, Mezger, C Muller, R May, S Nichols, Pedrazza, Potocki, N Rosberg, Rupp, Scapini, H Shaw, Swanson, Vlassopulos, Yamamoto, Zampatti

 

Died

Canavan, Threlfall, Weyant

 

Change of:

Birth Date: Beaujon, A Branca, Cerulli Irelli, Naddeo, Potocki, Santin, Shangry La, Scapini, Tamburini

 

Birth Year: L Anderson

 

Birth Place: Casoni, R Gardner, H Johnson, Lancia, Livio, T Martini, C Montanari, Mezger, R May, Mattson, Piccolo, Pairetti, Santin, Shangry La, Sassetti, Vlassopulos, Tamburini, Tavoni

 

Death Place: B Devore, Swanson, H Shaw

 

Death Date: R May

 

New Information:

FULL Birthdate:  Bernabei, B Maserati, Silva, Truffo

 

Birth Year: Noghes

 

Other: All 2017 Grand Prix totals up to date

 

Thanks: 

Tony Vlassopulos

Herb Anastor (Parnelli Jones)

Adriano Brunelli  :clap: (Bernabei, Livio, Tavoni, A Branca, T Martini, Truffo, Casoni, Cerulli Irelli, Lancia, C Montanari, Naddeo, Piccolo, Tamburini, Santin, Sassetti, Scapini)



#872 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:16

"Easy Money" also raced Big cars in Texas in 1937 (Sportsman's Park in Dallas). Likely the same person.

Belated thanks, Michael. Missed this when first posted. :)



#873 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 20:43

Cesare Fiorio is in a very serious condition in hospital after a bicycle accident - No idea why my PC won't do links, so copy and pasted from newsauto.it

 
Cesare Fiorio Grave Incidente Prognosi Riservata
© riproduzione riservata
Cesare Fiorio
Cesare Fiorio è in prognosi riservata all'ospedale Perrino di Brindisi dove è ricoverato in gravi condizioni per le ferite riportate in seguito a una caduta durante una passeggiata in bicicletta
SOCIAL
 
 
PAROLE CHIAVE
 
3 MAGGIO, 2017
Un grave incidente ha coinvolto Cesare Fiorio a seguito di una caduta in bicicletta nelle campagne bridisine. E’ ricoverato in gravi condizioni nel reparto di Anestesia e Rianimazione dell’ospedale Perrino di Brindisi.
Nella caduta Fiorio ha battuto la testa perdendo conoscenza e le sue condizioni sono apparse subito critiche. Per la causa si ipotizza molto probabilmente un malore. E’ stato prontamente soccorso da una autoambulanza del 118 è stato ricoverato a Brindisi in codice rosso.
L’incidente si è verificato nel pomeriggio di oggi, mercoledì 3 maggio, in contrada Canalicchio tra Ceglie e Ostuni.
Il manager, proprietario di Masseria Camarda di Ceglie, gestisce una rinomata struttura ricettiva alle porte di Ceglie Messapica (dove qualche anno fa è stato anche assessore allo Sport e ne è cittadino onorario) dedicandosi quotidianamente all’agricoltura “sana e biologica”, la sua seconda passione dopo lo sport.
Considerato uno dei miti dell’automobilismo per aver reso i rally una specialità professionistica, Cesare Fiorio nel 1961 vinse come pilota un titolo italiano di velocità di categoria GT (classe 1150 cc), nel 1963 fondò l’High Fidelity, il reparto corse della Fiat, che cominciò così a essere una protagonista fissa dei grandi rally internazionali. Nei vari ruoli di direttore sportivo Lancia Fiat e di responsabile-competizioni del Gruppo Fiat ha vinto 18 titoli mondiali.
Cesare Fiorio è stato anche pilota di motonautica, diventando 2 volte campione del mondo e 6 volte campione europeo, vincendo in tutto 31 Gran Premi. È stato poi direttore sportivo della Ferrari dal 1989 all’inizio del 1991, dove ottenne 25 podi e 9 vittorie su 36 Gp.
Cesare Fiorio è originario di Torino ma cegliese d’adozione, compie 77 anni il 26 maggio prossimo.


#874 JacnGille

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:32

Sad news



#875 Michael Ferner

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 09:02

Michael, Greco isn't spelt wrong at all - GRECCO is or rather, was his name. You can see the proof of that on the censuses and SSDI, and all the other resources. It's the papers - not for the first time - that are wrong.


Well, I have now found the man's signature, and it's definitely Greco, with one "c". Seems that this time the SSDI and censuses were wrong, and the newspapers right all along!

#876 ensign14

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:27

It's possible he just went with the flow and that as everyone was calling him Greco decided to sign himself as Greco as well.  I bet Jim Rathmann didn't sign as Dick Rathmann.



#877 Michael Ferner

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 15:02

Yes, possible. Much like Duke Dinsmore and Frank Luptow, in fact. But to me it means, I don't have to change the way I spell his name. :)

#878 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 20:13

Latest updates for http://www.oldracing...m/drivers/watn/

 

(This is aside from the updates where I'm filling out the entries, only 250 to go now)

 

2017 Updates:

Albacete, Antinucci, Alonso, Ayari, A Beltoise, G Berton, Bouchut, Bourdais, Bremer, Button, Camathias, Caffi, Colciago, Coletti, Cochet, G Chaves, De Oliviera, Davison, Dracone, Enerson, A Ferte, Filippi, Ghinzani, Gosselin, R Gonzalez, Guerrieri, Hoshino, J Howard, Hiesse, Ide, Jourdain Jr, J Kane, Karam, Klien, Karthekiyan, Kobayashi, T Kurosawa, Buddy Lazier, Liuzzi, Luhr, Morbidelli, Montermini, P Mann, Merhi, Menu, A Muller, Noda, Nakano, J O'Connell, Oestrich, Plowman, Policand, Rangoni, W Stevens, Schiattatella, Tarquni, Tung, van Hooydonk, S Wilson, A Wirth, Sourd

 

General WATN Updates

John Andretti, Ashley, Badoer, Bourbonnais, Braillard, Coulthard, Croceri, Cuquerella, de Simone, Deletraz, Eckerle, Fomenko, Fiorio, Franchi, J Gene, Giroix, Gosparini, K Greene, Hitzinger, Hakkinen, H Hahne, Hynes, Lamby, Lehto, Larini, Miles, Y Muller, Minassian,  D Martinez, Momota, Mitsusada, Marelli, McQuillam, A Meier, C Murphy, Montagny, L Niccolini, Ono, Ori, Pirro, Prost, Papis, Reynard, Rinland, Ravetto, J Russell, Ryton, Rosa, J Robinson, Symonds, South, Starabba, Shanebrook, P Stewart, Scassellatti, Southgate, Mark Smith (designer), Streiff, Schafer, Tuero, Vasser, Unser Jr, Tonti, Vandone, J Verstappen, Terrien, D Walker

 

Died

Broadley, Bruce Hill, Leonard, McCall, McElreath, Neve, T Parnell, Surtees, I Stewart, Steele, B Scott, M Taylor, Tolentino

 

New

Giovinazzi, J Harvey, Veach

 

Change of:

Birth Date: G Andersen, Mattson, 

 

Birth Place: Lawton, Z Meyer, Ori

 

Death Place: Armi, G Andersen, Z Meyer, 

 

Death Date: G Andersen

 

Other: All Indianapolis 500 totals up to date.

 

Thanks: Michael Ferner (Andersen); James Davison, Darren Banks (South), Rewind (Mattson), Peter Higham (Tolentino)



#879 ReWind

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 19:39

Richard, on another forum a link to this gravestone was posted. A certain John G. Mertz, Jr., b. 1908, died in 1959 and is said to have been the racing driver Jack Mertz.
The dates you give (1909 – 1979) belong to a certain John W. Mertz.
Can you safely say which one of these two is the right one?



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#880 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 20:08

I think it's JG actually, aside from the brilliant info on the findagrave.

 

I tell you'll why it's happened. It was known that Mertz was English born and on a US Census and army details, there's a John Mertz, born in England, of the right age who was a mechanic in the right area. BOOM! That's our man.Except... it clearly isn't. Educated guess, but it's wrong. I'll change it tonight.

 

Also JGM isn't on the findmypast birth details, and there's nothing about his family, although they might be down as a different name. Instead of Lancashire, Mertz was actually born a Yorkshireman.



#881 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 20:23

I don't see John G on the World War II Army Enlistment Records on Ancestry.  Am I reading them wrong, or could the family have changed surname at some point?  Also the Pennsylvania John G is given as having been born in PA, not in England, so I'm not sure that's the same man.  His father's name given as Charles A Merz or Charles A Merza.

 

How do we know the info on findagrave.com is correct?  I see the gravestone is real, but where is the supplementary biographical info from?



#882 Allen Brown

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 20:42

I hope this is going to work:

 
1790_981_2273_1840.jpg 
 

Jack Mertz of Saginaw, Michigan, in his Mertz Special, from the Detroit Free Press (Detroit, Michigan) 27 May 1932


Edited by Allen Brown, 08 June 2017 - 20:43.


#883 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 21:11

The only thing that did make me pause is the find-a-grave bio mentions 1933 as his Indianapolis effort, but it was actually 1932. So if it's wrong about that quite important detail, is it wrong about something else. The JM born in West Derby, I've now found out is a JKM, so he can't be the same as JWM. All a bit confusing.



#884 Cavalier53

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 18:13

It seems 70's Super Vee star Kenneth Persson is still going strong - participating in the Spa Summer races last weekend in a GT40 - at 74 years old :clap:



#885 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 21:38

Latest updates for http://www.oldracing...m/drivers/watn/

 

The long, long process of updating everyone's entries to as much as I could has FINALLY (three years) been done. It's also produced a number of changed or new information which is below:

 

2017/2018 Updates:

Bachelart, M Brabham, Bottas, G Chaves, di Grassi, de Silvestro, F Giaffone, R Gordon, Gommendy, Hornish, Janis, Junqueira, Joest, Larini, Lancieri, Lowndes, Buddy Lazier, Luyendyk Jr,Morand, MacPherson, Montoya, McDowell, Necchi, Nissany, Power, Pagenaud, Pigot, Ranger, C Robinson, G Rahal, Raikkonen, A Rossi, Speed, Sato, Saavedra, Servia, Sarrazin, Shank, Tagliani, Verdonck, Vasseur, Van der Garde, Veach, J Ward, N Wirth, Yeley

 

General WATN Updates

Baltisser, Brisko, Brudes, E Cheever, Connew, D Clarke, deFraties, Drollinger, J dePalma, P Friesacher, W Fittipaldi, L Fischer, D Ferguson, Goacher, Gimax, Gehlhausen, Gascoyne, Garrett, Henderson, Hopfer, Hiss, D Hill, Hezemans, Heeks, Kasemets, Kristensen, Klenk, Klemos, Klodwig, Leinders, Lazzaro, Lanier, R Moran Sr, Monfardini, Mead, Meira, Mikola, Mansell, Pavicevic, Posey, Rosberg N, Romancini, Robarts, Salo, Scalabroni, Saelens, Stoddart, Tracy, Treadway, Trexler, Tichenor, van de Poele, West, Walkup

 

Died

Conely, Kinnunen, D Nichols

 

Change of:

Birth Date: Hickey (Year), Mertz, E McCoy (year), Shambaugh (day), Tattersall

Birth Place: Briggs, Coffey, Delany, Figge, Klemos, Minder, L Rice, F Roberts, Shambaugh

Death Place:  Brisko, L Crockett, Drollinger, Ellis, Force, Garrett, Klemos, Kenealy, Mason, McQuinn, Shambaugh, Stringer

Death Date: Goacher, Hickey, Klemos (day), Leighton, Mertz, Stringer, Tolentino (day)

 

NEW INFORMATION:

Complete Birth and Death Date Information: W Crawford (Changed birth date, added death place, now complete); A Johnson, CC Reeder, T Simpson, B Wallace

Complete Birth information: J-C Favre, Mimura, Nelson, Ono

Complete Death Information: Coffey, Franchi

Birth Place: J Baldwin, Tolentino

Other: J C MacDonald (basic birth info, nationality and WATN)

 

Other: Interviews with Derek Hill - http://www.oldracing...iew/Derek-Hill/ and Peter Connew; http://www.oldracing...w/Peter-Connew/

 

Thanks: Derek Hill and Peter Connew firstly (and thanks to Barry Boor too) and then - Reinhard re. Mertz and Uechtel for all his brilliant German racing drivers biographies.  :up: 

 

Next time, there will be a lot more names on there with BIG updates.  :wave: 



#886 ReWind

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 18:53

Richard, what gives you confidence that Stuart Clark Simpson was TED Simpson?



#887 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 20:07

Californian marriage records and census records, which after some digging led to the other information accordingly.

#888 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 23:44

Latest updates for http://www.oldracing...m/drivers/watn/

 

 

2017/2018 Updates:

Aleshin, Alonso, Bouchut, Button, Beretta, M Brabham, Baguette, Bjork, Buhl, R Byrne, Castroneves, Conway, Caffi, Capelli, J Camathias, Chilton, Claman de Melo, Dalziel, de Oliviera, di Resta, Dracone, Ericsson, Euser, C Fittipaldi, Filippi, Fisichella, Fontana, F Giaffone, Giovanazzi, Glock, Gommendy, Goossens, Guerreri, M Halliday, Hezemans, Hinchcliffe, Hawksworth, Ide, E Jones, Junqueira, Kaltenborn, Kanaan, Kerr, C Kimball, Klien, Karthikeyan, Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Kubica, Kvyat, Lammers, Lamy, Legge, Lotterer, JM Lopez, M Lauda, Lowdnes, Luhr, Matos, Massa, Matsuura, Monteiro,Munoz,Y Muller,  Nasr, K Nakajima, Paffett, Patrick, S Perez, Petrov, Piquet Jr, Pruett, Saavedra, K Schrader, B Senna, Sospiri, A Suzuki, Stroll, R Schumacher, Tagliani, Tarquini, W Taylor, Vautier, Verdonck, Vasser, van der Garde, Vergne, Wehrlein, Zonta

 

General WATN Updates

P Adams, Almondo, Aloi, Jo. Andretti, Angelelli, Baumgartner, T Bell, Bright, D Brabham, S Brown, Brunner, Cardwell, J Crawford, Danner, Downing, P Friesacher, Foitek, Formato, K Greene, A Giaffone, Gould, Grohs, Guerra, Hawkins, Haywood, W Henzler, C Hill, Hobbs, Huertas, A Lloyd, D Morgan, McNish, Mertens, G Murray, Montermini, S Moss, O Martini, Manning, M May, Naspetti, Noghes, Prost, Ravetto, N and K Rosberg, T Robinson, Slater, Traverso, J Weaver, D Warwick, Whitmarsh, Wiggins

 

New

R Binder, P Fittipaldi, Jo. King, Leist, Leclerc, Claman de Melo, Gasly, K Kaiser, Wickens, B Hartley, Sirotkin

 

Died

Blades, R Camathias, D Gurney, McGreevey, Nicholson, Natili, Puterbaugh, Jry Sneva

 

NEW INFORMATION:

Complete Birth information: Ricci (and WATN)

Complete Death Information: Ornduff (day), Linn (day and changed death place)

Birth Place: Franca (Birthyear as well), Ahmed

Death Place: Ge. Bugatti

Other: Bellasi (birth year), C Green and B Evans (I) - death year

 

Other: Interview with Barrie Smith http://www.oldracing...w/Barrie-Smith/

All GP Totals updated for 2017.

 

Thanks: Barrie Smith (interview and photos), Wolf Gruhle (D Morgan), Rewind (numerous), Kevin Guthrie (His excellent Jim Crawford book), Ivan McLeod (Paul Hawkins book)   :up: 



#889 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 09:09

Ornduff? Really? That's definitely the most misspelled name in racing history, then! A quick check on newspapers.com shows over 700 hits for Vern or Vernon Orenduff, and just one single (!) for Ornduff! There are even 90 hits for Orendorf, and more than twenty for Orendoff, to say nothing of the even more exotic variants!

#890 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 13:37

A bit of googling shows that it is Orenduff, after all! This page https://www.myherita...les ln.orenduff has links to several documents, including SSDI, census data and marriage records, all showing Orenduff.

#891 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 14:44

A bit of googling shows that it is Orenduff, after all! This page https://www.myherita...les ln.orenduff has links to several documents, including SSDI, census data and marriage records, all showing Orenduff.


Obviously you haven't bothered actually visiting his page on the site then Michael judging by your last two posts.

#892 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:38

No, I just checked the letter "O" in your list of Indy 500 drivers, where it is still Ornduff.

Having now visited "his page", I'm just puzzled! You say "real name Orenduff", yet you spell it wrongly!!? Why is that?

#893 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:40

Because he was entered and credited as Ornduff that's why.

Worth mentioning Champ Car Stats, Wikipedia Phil Harms etc etc have it as Ornduff as his entry. We all know that's not his actual name but hey I'm not the 1934 scrutineer.

Edited by Richard Jenkins, 26 February 2018 - 15:51.


#894 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:43

What does that mean, "entered and credited"? Entered in your data base? Surely you can correct a mistake!?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 February 2018 - 15:46.


#895 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:53

Its not my mistake to correct Michael.

#896 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:56

Obviously you haven't bothered actually reading my post #889 then Richard judging by your last two posts.  ;)

#897 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:59

Michael, show me a copy of the official 1934 entry list that says Orenduff and ill happily change it.

#898 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 16:23

cf. http://forums.autosp...al-information/
cf. http://forums.autosp...r-of-wikipedia/

:rolleyes:

#899 Jim Thurman

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 17:07

Michael, I believe what Richard is pointing out is that while born Vern Orenduff, he raced as Vern Ornduff.

 

There are other examples of drivers racing under names slightly different than their given birth name, like Ed Eliseian racing as Ed Elisian.



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#900 Michael Ferner

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 17:24

No, Jim. Look at my post #889, he definitely did NOT race as Ornduff, he was just misspelled that way in one out of roughly a thousand examples. Somebody, and I suspect it was probably Jack Fox, made a small mistake and dropped the "e", and everybody simply copies off him. Things like that happen, no problem, but when pointed out, the mistake should be corrected, no? If someone at, say, wikipedia makes an entry for racing driver "Micheal Bartels" (Steffi Graf's bf, remember?), will everybody simply copy that, and say: "real name Michael"??? That makes absolutely no sense at all!

I have dozens of documents, some with the magic word "official" on it, where his name is spelled, correctly, "Orenduff", and I'm sure I have his autograph somehwere, too. I was even going to post one example, but then I thought: this is just too silly. Instead of aiming to be the first one to get it right, Richard is just trotting with the crowd. His problem, not mine.