22 replies to this topic

[tony]

Title says it all. What's the answer?

[Clatter]

No.

You still require a superlicense, so you would have to prove that you are up to the drive.

[Ross Stonefeld]

[BRG]

Originally posted by Clatter
You still require a superlicense.

The superlicence has effectively been destroyed by a succession of drivers who didn't really qualify - Button, Raikkonen, Massa, Yoong - who were brought in by avaricious or ambitious teams. As long as you pound around for 500kms or something in a F1 car in testing and don't kill yourself or anyone else, you get your superlicence. Any faintly capable racing driver should be able to do that. So as long as you have enough dosh to out-bid all the other candiates for the #2 Minardi or Jordan seat, and can qualify for a international racing licence from your national MSA, you too can be a F1 driver.

It stinks, doesn't it? Pinnacle of the sport? Bah...

[Buford]

It has been this way in racing since the mid 1970s, when ride buying on every level became easier and more popular than working your way up on skill. F1 has been more immune than most levels, but now that they want young wild men, and not seasoned veterans, it is possible with money to jump to the top rung at each level with little or no experience or previous achievement. It is the "Racin Gardner-izing" of the sport.

[bira]

Why does it stink though? :confused:

There is a whole list of drivers who paid their way into F1 initially -- Prince Bira, Niki Lauda, Michael Schumacher, to name a few.

As for superlicense, Schumacher didn't exactly fit the requirements either, did he:

5 - QUALIFICATION FOR THE SUPER LICENCE

5.1) The Super licence is issued by the Formula One Commission, on its sole decision, following a specific request and recommendation from the driver's ASN, accompanied by his/her record of results, and on the following conditions:

i) the driver is party to an agreement with a team entered in the FIA F1 World Championship to race a Formula One car in the Championship in the year of application as first, second or reserve driver,

ii) the driver is the holder of a Grade A licence,

iii) the driver:

- either a): has been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the FIA F3000 International Championship within the previous 2 years,

- or b): has been classified in the first 3 in at least 5 races, or in the first 6 in at least 10 races, of the FIA F3000 International Championship, within the previous 2 years,

- or c): has been classified in the first 3 of the final classification of the Japanese F3000 Championship within the previous 2 years,

- or d): has been classified in the first 6 of the final classification of the Indy Racing League (IRL) series or of the CART Championship series in the United States within the previous 2 years,

- or e): is the current champion of the principal National F3 Championship of one of the following countries: Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, (the title is considered valid for 12 months from the last race of his or her championship season),

- or f): has started in at least 5 races counting for the F1 World Championship for Drivers the previous year,

- or g): (exceptionally), has a record of results which is judged sufficient, unanimously, by the Bureau of the Formula One Commission and has driven at least 300km in a current F1 car at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, certified by the ASN of the country in which the test took place. Only results obtained with single-seater formula cars will be taken into consideration. Should the members of the Bureau not agree unanimously, the Commission in its entirety will be consulted. In this case, the complete application must be received by the FIA at least 14 days before scrutineering for the first F1 World Championship event in which the candidate is to compete.

iv) the annual Super licence fee is paid to the FIA.

[StickShift]

I would've thought the old Group-C class Schumacher was in would've been enough to qualify him for a Super License.

[Ross Stonefeld]

To me there's a difference between drivers who deserve to be in F1 anyways, but had to bring money to face economic realities (Michael Schumacher) drivers who are solid midfield of which there are 15 other guys of equal ability but one of them is good marketing (Enrique Bernoldi) and drivers who's only reason they are behind the wheel of an F1 car is because they bring a check and would not be considered otherwise (Alex Yoong)



Its a sliding scale though, the entire sport is built on money. There is no true 'sponsorship' to speak of before F1. You need money to race karts for 5 years (though there are some free rides there) 2 years of Formula Ford (nothing free) 2 years of Formula 3 (nothing free) maybe F3000 (definately not free) etc. So really you could say F1 is the best drivers in the world, of the pool who were able to put out large sums of $$$ to get the junior career started. The only 'sponsored' rides in F3 and F3000 are junior teams of F1. The Renault F3 team, the Red Bull F3000 team, etc. And even those are often not completely free, but maybe 75% subsidised.

I got freakishly lucky to get Audi Sport $$$. They paid for my entire weekend, and their reasoning was they need to develop new talent and have guys under their wing, and that the risk was relatively inexpensive (especially comared to what they spend on Le Mans). I can go race that car full time again if I want, but I have to do work to find my own money. Audi will help me, in helping me seal the sponsorship, doing some PR, maybe even picking up the last 10% of the budget, but they wont just write me a check.

In a way though, thats the best training of all. Too many of these drivers are just rich kids who are so used to having things handed to them they give up at the first sign of difficulty. How many drivers are actually doing their own sponsor hunting? Its usually their agents/management groups. Very very few road racing drivers have any sort of foundation in understanding the economics of sponsorship.

My goal in life is to get to a point where im bringing money because the ride isnt free (Bernoldi) and not just flat out buying it because I might have the biggest check (Yoong)

[superbird]

The superlicence has effectively been destroyed by a succession of drivers who didn't really qualify - Button, Raikkonen, Massa, Yoong - who were brought in by avaricious or ambitious teams.

I don't think those qualification rules take into account the realities of the "racing ladder". Button and Raikkonen raced from when they were 8 and Button won a far harder championship than F3 or F3000 when he was 17!

[Prostfan]

With enough money could anyone get an F1 seat?

I (1,98 m, 110 kg) certainly not...

[Buford]

"So really you could say F1 is the best drivers in the world, of the pool who were able to put out large sums of $$$ to get the junior career started."
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Bingo. Mario Andretti once told me (about CART). "There are better guys driving milk trucks in Debuque than half the guys out here." The same could be said of F1. The best 20 drivers in the world are not likely to be racing F1. Most of them are not racing anything.

[KenC]

Assuming that you can reach the pedals(not Justin Wilson size), the answer is yes. Superlicenses are hardly an impediment. And, getting a seat, doesn't necessarily mean you'll ever qualify within 107%. However, if getting a seat is all you're concerned about, Jordan or Minardi will be glad to sell you one. Whether you race, is up to you.

As for ride-buying, one has to distinguish the two types: the worthy ride-buyers like Schumi, and the unworthy ride-buyers like Yoong, who most everyone seems to deride. We'll always have lousy drivers in F1, but to be a lousy F1 driver who brings sponsorship seems to be especially derisive to F1 fans. To me, it's just reality.

[wawawa]

Originally posted by bira

[snip]
- or f) : has started in at least 5 races counting for the F1 World Championship for Drivers the previous year,
[/snip]

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but isn't this circular?? How do you end up in "at least 5 races counting for the F1 World Championship for Drivers the previous year" without a superlicense?

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Originally posted by Buford
"So really you could say F1 is the best drivers in the world, of the pool who were able to put out large sums of $$$ to get the junior career started."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bingo. Mario Andretti once told me (about CART). "There are better guys driving milk trucks in Debuque than half the guys out here." The same could be said of F1. The best 20 drivers in the world are not likely to be racing F1. Most of them are not racing anything.

Thats true, i dont see how the formula one drivers can be called "the 22 (now 20) best drivers in the world," look at Yoong! hahaha., I'm sure out there somewhere there is a driver who is 10 times better than Michael Schumacher, A driver who is 10 times more gifted, 10 times better in the rain , and someone who can make up a 3.5 second deficit in a Minardi to challenge the likes of Schumi in this all-conquering Ferrari. (just a hunch), that person, is of course , moi ;) hahaha

[lustigson]

Originally posted by wawawa

Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly, but isn't this circular?? How do you end up in "at least 5 races counting for the F1 World Championship for Drivers the previous year" without a superlicense?

Drivers don't get their Superlicense for life. Every year you have to apply for one again. So drivers that competed in the previous year, receive one for the new season.

[Fastcar]

Originally posted by Clatter
No.

You still require a superlicense, so you would have to prove that you are up to the drive.

Where did you get that information from ? I sussed this one out quicker than you can say Giovanna Amati.

Anyone who is within reason physically can end up in an F1 car for example if I was trained to drive an F1 car physically(would take about 2 months) all I need then is loadsa money...get my drift ?
Many people thru basic training would easily drive an F1 car they aint fitter than people can achieve with some training. As for the driving aspect you would have to have an idea about drive fast i.e.lines of least resistance and brave enough to handle it(most guys are) its not that far away from reality it IS all about money, money money money.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by Prostfan
With enough money could anyone get an F1 seat?

I (1,98 m, 110 kg) certainly not...

Well perhaps you might fit in a F1 without the seat

Quite funny that you're a Prost fan !

[TAB666]

Originally posted by BRG
The superlicence has effectively been destroyed by a succession of drivers who didn't really qualify - Button, Raikkonen, Massa, Yoong - who were brought in by avaricious or ambitious teams. As long as you pound around for 500kms or something in a F1 car in testing and don't kill yourself or anyone else, you get your superlicence. Any faintly capable racing driver should be able to do that. So as long as you have enough dosh to out-bid all the other candiates for the #2 Minardi or Jordan seat, and can qualify for a international racing licence from your national MSA, you too can be a F1 driver.

It stinks, doesn't it? Pinnacle of the sport? Bah...

And its all Prosts "fault". They had to change the rules to get Prost back in 93 if i remember correctly. Prost hadent done any F3000 and he lost his super license the year he didnt drive.
They had to change/add something to the rules ( the "g" thingy in Biras post).

[flyer72]

With enough money someone CAN get an F1 seat - but it isn't enough. With the money you can at least get a shot at driving - but look at Yoong. Sufficient funds cannot hide the fact that you are not fast enough.

Since F1 is so incredibly expensive most drivers do have some sort of sponsorhip behind them when they get into F1. The changes of the economic climate and the hunt for even younger talents have changed this temporarily but it is on the way back again. Don't be mistaken that your fav driver never brought some sort of money with him - he probably did! Just to get a seat in F3, F3000, Formula Renault or some other series you normally have to get some sort of sponsorship with you (and that includes dad's money as well if applicable).

In some countries it is easier to get sponsorship and in some it is nearly impossible. Look at Sweden, currently there is Thed Björk and Björn Wirdheim who managed to get some money to get them into F3000 - previously Bräck managed to get sponsorhip - but it is nearly impossible and I do applaud them for getting it! It is a shame for Sweden that the companies are not sponsoring more drivers.

It looks to be fairly hard in France as well as the number of new french talent is quite limited - don't get me wrong, the talent is surely there but with tight and few sponsors it is very hard for young aspiring drivers even to get into Formula Renault!

I'm not saying it is easy anywhere to get sponsorships - but Bräck really had to hit the phones and visit an obscene amount of companies personally before some started sponsoring him! A national tragedy if you ask me!!!!

[masterhit]

I agree with Flyer 72. You can buy yourself into the team, maybe race a few times, but ultimately if you aren't making 107% on a regular basis, you won't make it. So the answer is - yes, with some limitations on height, physical fitness and mobility, mental function, etc.

[Nathan]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

LMFAO


Bravo!!

[BlackCat]

so it's back to the roots again. say, just 100 years ago auto racing was a sport for gentlemen who could a) build or b) buy a car. let's ban the ungentlemanly habit of hiring slave-boys to do the driving

[BMW FW22]

i'd love to see george bush in a f1 race !