51 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Not quite TNF fodder perhaps but I thought you might quite enjoy this - from the recent Bathurst 24-Hours driver briefing...





DCN

[Bernd]

It's not really funny.......... really.

Seriously if say a Porsche were to hit a Big Red at 300KPH or so the results would be disastrous and more than likely fatal. The bastards were numerous but fortunately they stayed outside the circuit proper as far as I know.

[Ray Bell]

The highlight of this, of course, is the disclaimer at the bottom!

But with the present drought, kangaroos are coming in closer than ever to humans, hence this was a real potential problem.

Just a few weeks ago, I drove from Bathurst to Willow Tree and I reckon I saw over 1000 'roos in my headlights on the way. That was 296km, I think...

The highways around Bathurst are littered with corpses of the marsupials every night, and it isn't very long ago that we had that pre-race shot of a car coming out of Forrest Elbow with a 'roo cutting across its bows in broad daylight.

There was a report of one 'roo on the track during the race, which surprised me, as if one was there I'd think many more were about.

edit:

Hey! What kind of dodge is this?

Your mate's name has been added into the circuit features!

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Just a few weeks ago, I drove from Bathurst to Willow Tree and I reckon I saw over 1000 'roos in my headlights on the way. That was 296km, I think...

Oh to have such large cojones. A very long time ago I skittled a big one just east of Mildura in my new Honda Civic ... ever since then, driving on " 'roo likely" roads at dusk, night or dawn has been a no-no for me unless the trip's been absolutely necessary.

Life's too short for that kind of excitement.

Ray, get a car with powerful air-conditioning and tinted windows and travel by day. We need you too much on TNF!

[Ray Bell]

Tinted windows? Don't believe in them... cut out visibility...

Air conditioning? Well, I was expecting to have that, but one of the unions on the compressor fouled the mechanical fuel injection pump and I have to come to some other arrangements some time...

As for travelling in the daytime... sometimes I do, but mostly I travel at night because I can work in the daytime.

[jrosenzweig]

On my way over to the Bathurst 24hr i didn't see a single "live" roo. Nearly hit a few emu's but thats it. Need to bear in mind that on hot days you won't get roo's jumping around in the sun, they'll sit in the shade and cool off if possible. Off topic i can remember seeing a Superkart driver swooped by an Eagle at the Island, maybe a metre away from his head but bear in mind it was at the end of the start finish straight...

I nearly hit a joey on my Honda Fourtrax last week. Didn't come that close to it as the mother got in the way Not a big fan of the national icon's...

That is interesting thought that Bathurst has the roo problem. Obviously they don't have any sort of border fencing that is worth a crust.

[Ray Bell]

What fence is there that can totally contain (or exclude) 'roos?

Anyway, Bathurst's Mt Panorama circuit runs between perhaps twenty properties... and some parks.

And don't underestimate the things in your part of the land, Jamie... last trip back from Adelaide I saw plenty... more than ever before... but again, I travelled at night.

[Bruce Moxon]

I nearly nailed a couple of 'roos in a rally near Bathurst. And then I got a rabbit at another event in the same general area.

Got a possum near Newcastle - nearly went off the road trying to avoid it and flattened the mongrel anyway.

There was an already-dead wombat just over a crest in a rally as well. Fortunately the car was way up on its suspension so it only half tore off half the exhaust. Got to smell cooking wombat for the next few kilometres - smells like chicken! Rallying can be exciting, in its own way. Not as much here as in Kenya, where you have to watch for giraffes, elephants, rhinocerous and other good stuff. And Canada has those nice, cuddly Grizzly Bears! And moose. I heard of a time when Colin McRae saw his first moose - told what it was he exclaimed "Jesus Christ, if that's a moose, I don't want tae see a rat!"

And I was with Ray in 1980, on our way back from the Grand Prix at Calder when he got the winner of the World's Biggest Cat competition. Peugeot 504s are strong!

There's a nature reserve behind Mount Panorama and the area inside Forest's Elbow is native bushland.


Bruce Moxon

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Bruce Moxon
.....And I was with Ray in 1980, on our way back from the Grand Prix at Calder when he got the winner of the World's Biggest Cat competition. Peugeot 504s are strong!

Huh? Calder, 1980?

Cat?

Only cat I remember hitting on the way back from a race meeting was near Tamworth after the Surfers meeting in September, 72... Max and I in an Xu-1, we didn't go over 100mph, honest... but we didn't go under it much either!

That cat scored the front 'air dam' at 100mph without flinching...

[Doug Nye]

Of course the result of a striking a big 'roo at 170mph-plus concentrates the mind. The above documents really gave some of the visiting drivers a sleepless time. This wasn't helped when the helpful Feral specialist claimed that - "Most human fatalities in kangaroo/car impacts seem to be from the animal coming through the windscreen and ending up, alive, inside the cabin, whereupon in its instinctive attempts to escape, it kicks the occupants to death".

By this time visiting Poms were simply quaking.

I cheered my mates up by pointing out that if Skippy was struck at 170-plus he'd pretty much vaporise before he reached the screen, as would the front of the car, but they had a good roll-cage-reinforced firewall ahead of them anyway. If Skippy survived the impact and ended up inside then surely the silly bugger driving deserved a good kicking anyway...come to think of it, perhaps this should be standard team management practise, just on principle?

Anyway, they never saw a single macropod...

DCN

[Catalina Park]

The best animal performance I saw at Bathurst was during the HQ Holden race and there was a horse that decided that the grass was a little greener on the edge of the track on Condrod Straight and not in the paddock so he was leaning over the fence eating the grass on the side of the track with us idiots whizzing past his nose at 120 MPH and the horse was there every lap!

[Ray Bell]

Still no explanation regarding the 'Brooks Skyline' on the map...

But seeing as Bruce has raised the issue of return trips from races in Melbourne, I guess I could mention the incident that took place near Catalina's home in Goulburn... but then again, maybe I won't...

[Doug Nye]

Ray - I don't understand that corner name attribution either - it's on the document as sent to me. It's no longer significant either since our auction company uses the Bonhams name now that we have taken them over...and Phillips UK as well.

DCN

[BRG]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
By this time visiting Poms were simply quaking

They're not fooling me, Doug - it's just an advanced form of Aussie "sledging", to try to scare the Brits ;)

And to think we worry about hitting hares at Silverstone! Mind you, on the Safari Rally in Kenya, you have to watch out for elephants and rhinos as well as smaller critters. Hitting an elephant can REALLY spoil your day!

[Rainer Nyberg]

Slightly smaller than a kangaroo with but hitting a deer in a single seater could still be potentially fatal....Stefan Johansson had an encounter with a deer during the '87 Austrian GP...

[Doug Nye]

Yes Rainer - I talked about this incident with Johansson a couple of years ago and he could not have been more straightforward - "I barely had time to do anything to awoid it and yust about s--- myself - woss one HELL of an impact..!!!". He was very lucky to get away with it. Bambi absolutely did not.

DCN

[dmj]

Good grief! I have a few pictures of him hitting that deer but have never seen a post-accident pic before...

[Mila]

IIRC, the marshals had failed to warn Johansson about that wayward deer. perhaps they were reaching for their hunting rifles instead of yellow flags.

other wildlife that come to mind:

a hapless bird was struck by Hakkinen at Interlagos in 95. it took a sizeable chunk out of his Mclaren's rear wing.

a tiger wondered onto the Sepang track in (I think) 99.

and hasn't at least one woodchuck made its presence felt at Montreal?

[Ray Bell]

John Medley may be able to verify this...

There was one recorded 'roo strike during a race, IIRC... at Caversham in the late fifties, probably in a 6-hour race.

Oh, don't count on a 'roo being smaller than a deer, some get to be mighty big. Though they tend to be operating at higher altitudes.

[howl]

Seem's to be a kangaroo farm along pit straigt, ey!

Jesper O.H.

[howl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug Nye
"Most human fatalities in kangaroo/car impacts seem to be from the animal coming through the windscreen and ending up, alive, inside the cabin, whereupon in its instinctive attempts to escape, it kicks the occupants to death".

Here’s another story along the same lines.

During practice for the 1969 Targo Florio World Sports Car race, French rally-ace Gerard Larrousse was out testing the then brand new open-top Porsche 908 prototype for the factory team. Half way round the 72 km circuit he hits a mother f***** of a dog, doing close to 200 k’s on impact. The dog is thrown into the air and lands beside Larrouse in the Porsche (Aah, just knew that second seat was there for some reason!)

Unfortunately for Larrousse (and dog) the mop was still alive and kicki.. eh, biting after impact. The obviously very scared dog starts to bite an equally scared Larrousse in the leg. The Porsche is very quickly stopped with the driver abandoning ship as fast as possible.

Safely out of the car the next problem appears for Gerard. He’s out in nowhere without contact to his team and with a very uncooperative animal in his car. Larrousse, a little nervous about how the locals deal with a dog mutilator, watches how they gather around the mount. He has nothing to fear though. With a pair of pitch forks they move in on the monster (in this case the dog) and silence the air.

The dog is removed and Gerard Larrousse can finish his lap, with the team to wonder just why the car was covered in blood the way it was!

I’ll let the picture stand for a moment – say, a minute.

This was an excerpt from Autosport, 19 September 1991, in the weekly “Race of my life”. Gerard Larrousse is stretching "the Race" a bit, since his story includes both the 1969 race (told as above) and the 1971 event, but what the h***

On a completely different level of motor racing v. nature, I recently saw a David Letterman show. His reporter in the field Biff Henderson was at the 2002 Indy 500. Besides crowning Kenny Bräck for the silliest hair do, looking like a skunk, the footage featured a squirrel – on the track – along the wall – exiting turn 4!

It was obviously during a practice run as cars zoomed by every now and then. The squirrel seemed to be a little undecided about what to do in the situation, as it was skipping back and forth from the concrete wall. On one occasion the critter was close enough to a car that it was actually lifted from the ground … scary.

I don’t know what kind of speed an IRL car does at this particular spot, but remembering that races are yellowed for even small pieces of debris, I wonder what would have happened if anybody had hit the squirrel. Perhaps imagination is better than reality in this case.

Moose was mentioned earlier in this thread. These animals are considered a real hazard in Sweden. Standing close to 2 metres on four proportionally long legs (and weighing up to a ton) they have a tendency to hit the front screen of a car on impact. Moose move pretty even with the ground, but because of their size that’s enough. The grey and red kangaroos are measured at 9 meter long and 3 meter high jumps as far as I know – and thus it must be a matter of when and where you hit a ‘roo – on take off or in the air (without considering the weight of the animal in case).

As I'm fond of both motor racing and wild life let me finish this post on a positive note. At the final round of the 1987 Danish Autocross championship in September, Ove Thomsen makes his season debut. Why this late in the season? "Because some bird decided to build a nest in the radiator grill in the back of the car".

Jesper O.H.

[Slyder]

Didn't Jochen Mass hit a deer sometime ago in F1, can't remember when or where?

hitting animals have led to fatalities no question about it. In the dreadful 1960 Belgian GP, Alan Stacey was hit by a bird in the face which knocked him uncounsciouss, he veered off the road, crashed, was thrown from his car and killed, possibly by decapitation with a tree branch.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Slightly smaller than a kangaroo with but hitting a deer in a single seater could still be potentially fatal....Stefan Johansson had an encounter with a deer during the '87 Austrian GP...

The moment Johansson hits the deer, courtsey of Gilles-27

WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE!!!! ANIMAL LOVERS STAY CLEAR!!!!!

http://www.hot.ee/gi...t-kill-fawn.jpg

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Slyder



The moment Johansson hits the deer, courtsey of Gilles-27

WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE!!!! ANIMAL LOVERS STAY CLEAR!!!!!

http://www.hot.ee/gi...t-kill-fawn.jpg

Holy heck, that is one dead deer!

[Ray Bell]

BRM expert Doug should have included the hare hit by the BRM at... was it Aintree?

I'm fairly sure it was the British GP and the 2.5 front engined car was in with a show of taking out the marque's first win... but after hitting the hare, it pitted with some kind of handling problem. Only trouble was that the bit of hare bone that was through the tyre was on the ground and thus unseen... another pit stop, more time wasted... BRM loses again!

[Ross Stonefeld]

How does a Kangaroo compare to the North American deer or even the elk as far as size?

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Bruce Moxon

There's a nature reserve behind Mount Panorama and the area inside Forest's Elbow is native bushland.

That's Forrest's Elbow, as in international GP motorcyclist, Jack Forrest, who broke his elbow there, and who died only this year.

[Barry Lake]

Ross, a big roo is not as big or heavy as a moose or elk but a big 'boomer' can be airborne at just above bonnet height when you meet it.

Ignore warnings of the danger at own peril.

In the 1977 London to Sydney Marathon three Japanese in a works Subaru (one of them a friend and former team-mate of mine) were complaining at the Ayers Rock control they'd come half way acrosss Australia (via a round-about route) and hadn't seen a kangaroo. They suggested all stories about these creatures were fabricated to boost the tourist industry.

On the transport stage from The Rock to Alice Springs, they saw their first 'roo - as it came crashing through their windscreen. A big red male, it was enormous, alive and kicking frantically as it landed across the laps of the two front seat occupants. Even after stopping the car they were pinned, helpless, until others in following cars arrived to drag the roo from them.

Next time I saw them they were bruised and bleeding, fortunately not seriously injured. "Have you seen an kangaroos yet?" I asked. They replied in the affirmative, adding that they had no real need ever to see another as long as they lived.

[Ross Stonefeld]

aha

so its not so much the size of the animal but that when you hit a kangaroo you're likely to have it come straight through the windshield?

[Doug Nye]

Some of the unfortunate road kill 'roos left lying by the roadside in remote areas are at least as sizeable in side-elevation as a big red deer here in the UK, but the hind-quarters - the power house - of many I've seen over the 12 years I've been motoring around in Australia are absolutely massive, dense and heavy muscle and bone. You really wouldn't pick a fight with one, Ross...

DCN

[Ralliart]

One year at Monaco, Senna was leading in his McLaren by a mile and as he got to the start/finish line, someone ran across the track in front of him - Senna missed him by five feet, maybe. Lauda, when he was with McLaren, came across an animal while circuiting, told Dennis about it, who disbelieved him until later that afternoon when someone produced a photo. Someone out there can probably elaborate on both of these close-call situations.

[Bernd]

Red kangaroos are one of the largest species of marsupial. The Red Kangaroo is approximately 5 feet long and has a tail that is about 42 inches long. Overall they can reach well over 6 foot in height enough to tower over a tall man when they rear up. They are able to jump 29 feet in distance and over 6 feet in height. For short periods they can attain a speed of 35 mph. They can maintain a speed of 12 mph for hours.

I can't think of anything worse to hit at speed really..... perhaps an Elephant would be worse news.

[jrosenzweig]

Nice stats ben Let us not forget cows. Even a mediocre size one in outback NSW, NT, or just about anywhere will lead to tears. Also, what about our cuddly little wombats, I saw one try to open up Steve Irwin's kneecap one day on tv with his teeth I believe a large wombat would get up to 50kg and they are all muscle, so it would be like hitting a large rock. They have been known to right a car off.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
... the hind-quarters - the power house - of many I've seen over the 12 years I've been motoring around in Australia are absolutely massive, dense and heavy muscle and bone ...

That's the point. A glancing blow is one thing - and that's happened to me, too - but a head-on hit on the power house of a big one at speed (I think I was still travelling at 80km/h - down from 120km/h - when I finally nailed the 'roo I encountered on The Sturt Highway in 1978) and your car stays hit.

jrosenzweig cites cows as things not to hit and indeed they are. I once saw a large cow do considerable damage to a Mack prime mover between Hay and Balranald. (The cow wasn't too well either, after its first and last flight in which it travelled perhaps 30 metres and reached a maximum altitude of around 3 metres.)

But, IMHO, the thing about 'roos that makes them such a hazard is their combination of mass, speed and suicidal proclivity. I recall that I made no fewer than three direction changes, each one followed by the 'roo hopping this way and that, before the impact.

[Slyder]

Tommi Makkinen also had a similar experience back then in his early years, when out of the corner he encountered two cows. Makkinen managed to avoid one, but hit the other. The cow busted through his winshield, causing him to loose control and dive down in to a 30 foot ditch.

I believe he and his copilot were badly bruised but otherwise ok.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by Slyder
Tommi Makkinen also had a similar experience back then in his early years, when out of the corner he encountered two cows. Makkinen managed to avoid one, but hit the other. The cow busted through his winshield, causing him to loose control and dive down in to a 30 foot ditch.

I believe he and his copilot were badly bruised but otherwise ok.

I was there, back in my old yale days decades ago, in the free speech movement riots, had opportunity to visit some races, and glad Makkinen got away with it, I was only at the track for a hour, had to get some booze for a beatles party later.

[howl]

Considering the wild life of Kenya, Stig Blomqvist wrote off a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth in practice for the 1987 Safari Rally, hitting a dead cow.

Jesper O.H.

[Bruce Moxon]

Barry, you are quite right, it's Forrest's Elbow. I made a typing mistake.

Ray, I got a lift with you to Calder in 1980. Coming home on Sunday night, we were doing about 90 miles an hour in your 504 when a feral cat ran across the road in front of you. Thump. I think we were still in Victoria somewhere.

Mike Harding came with us on the way there, but came back with John Bourke.

BM

[Bruce Moxon]

Eww. I just looked at that photo of the minced venison. Eww.

Ed Ordynski hit a kangaroo at the Rally of Canberra a few years back in a Group A Galant VR4. He was doing about 200 kays at the time. They couldn't find very much of the kangaroo. And the car was written off.

Then there was Carlos Sainz and the sheep in New Zealand a couple of years back. Same story - minced lamb. At least you could use the wool to hold the rissoles together!

And there was the Cobra on the track at Sephang just after it opened, during a bike race. One of the riders killed it with his knee-pad.

Bloody environment!


Bruce Moxon

[jrosenzweig]

wasn't the cobra incident at Brno Bruce? maybe 5 years ago now.

[Catalina Park]

I forgot to mention the time I run over a Bear at Bathurst

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vanwall
.....the thing about 'roos that makes them such a hazard is their combination of mass, speed and suicidal proclivity. I recall that I made no fewer than three direction changes, each one followed by the 'roo hopping this way and that, before the impact.

Did I mention that I saw better than a thousand between Bathurst and Willow Tree?

With my headlights, I only saw them if they were dead in front of me... they just kept coming!

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by jrosenzweig
wasn't the cobra incident at Brno Bruce? maybe 5 years ago now.

Don't know about Brno, but the cobra incident I remember was definitely at Sepang. The cobra started to cross the track, and a bike went by an inch or so from its nose (do cobras have noses?). Obviously annoyed, the cobra raised itself into 'aggressive' stance, staring down the track at the offending bike ("Come back and fight, you bastard!"), only to be clobbered by the kneecap of the next rider through. It wasn't killed, as I recall, but retreated into the shrubbery somewhat miffed.

[LB]

Originally posted by jrosenzweig
wasn't the cobra incident at Brno Bruce? maybe 5 years ago now.

unlikely the Cobra population of the Czech Republic is largely confined to zoo's, may have hit another snake though - I remember the sepang one vaguely excepty I thought it was Shah Alam.

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by LB

unlikely the Cobra population of the Czech Republic is largely confined to zoo's, may have hit another snake though - I remember the sepang one vaguely excepty I thought it was Shah Alam.

You're right', I'm wrong - the bike GPs are held at Shah Alam, not Sepang. Definitely Malaysia, though.

[eldougo]

Seeing that it was not mention when this thread was running i will enter info here.

This accident happened at SPA 19th June 1960 .
_________________________________

Lap 24, Alan STACEY (LOTUS/CLIMAX) is killed . A preach who saw the accident tried to take STACEY out of the car and he found that there were feathers stucked in the glasses... Hit in face by a bird, unconscious, the car crashed... .

[LittleChris]

Originally posted by eldougo
. A preach who saw the accident tried to take STACEY out of the car .

I thought Stacey was thrown out of the car as it crashed Spookily I was looking at a picture of the burnt remains of his Lotus in the Francorchamps 1948-60 book this very morning.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by howl
Considering the wild life of Kenya, Stig Blomqvist wrote off a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth in practice for the 1987 Safari Rally, hitting a dead cow.

Jesper O.H.

Was it dead before or after he hit it?

Other recorded Safari incidents:

1961 - Bob Syder and K Gilbert in a Fiat 2100 hit a zebra only 18 miles from the Nairobi start. fatal for the zebra and for their Safari
1962 - Eric Carlsson and E Svenson in a Saab allegedly hit an aardvark. There were suspicions that this was a diplomatic excuse for the rear suspension failure.
Then there was the Cortina that hit a kongoni (a large antelope also known as a hartebeest), it was damaged but still finished
Chickens don't count. (My mate hit one when practicing for the Vespa 200 rally in 1964 - as he didn't fall off, we didn't dare stop as we had no money to pay compensation)

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the vulture that Kling and Klenk in a 300SL hit on their way to winning the Carrera Panamericana.

As for hares, Jean Behra hit one at Silverstone during the British Grand Prix resulting in a punctured tyre. There was also an incident at Monza in about 1968 or 69 but on that occasion the tyre survived, unlike the hare. I think it was JYS but can't remember.

And finally Nuvolari hit a deer in practice at Donnington in 1938(?) which he then had mounted as a trophy and shipped home to Mantua.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by D-Type
.....As for hares, Jean Behra hit one at Silverstone during the British Grand Prix resulting in a punctured tyre.....

Yes, that's the one I mentioned earlier in the thread... the one where the car pulled into the pits with the bone on the bottom of the tyre and unseen by the crew... the second pit stop ruined his chances of a win.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by D-Type
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the vulture that Kling and Klenk in a 300SL hit on their way to winning the Carrera Panamericana.

As for hares, Jean Behra hit one at Silverstone during the British Grand Prix resulting in a punctured tyre. There was also an incident at Monza in about 1968 or 69 but on that occasion the tyre survived, unlike the hare. I think it was JYS but can't remember.

And finally Nuvolari hit a deer in practice at Donnington in 1938(?) which he then had mounted as a trophy and shipped home to Mantua.

We've actually covered all those (and the ones above and more) in three previous threads:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=23396
http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=16022
http://www.atlasf1.c...=&threadid=1116