42 replies to this topic

[karlth]

This post is copied from the jpmontoya.com forum, user frecoja. The article is originally from the December issue of Racer Magazine.

The statistics back it up. Juan Pablo Montoya is the fastest man in formula one. EVER. so why are the victories proving so elusive.?

Formula One has not changed Juan Pablo Montoya, but it's but it has been a confirmation.Still smiling , still very much "What you see is what you get", Montoya has finally been able to unleash the speed and potential that many believed he's had in him since he was a child racing karts in colombia.

He might still have headed to the end of this season with that solitary Grand Prix victory from two full campaigns, the same period of time it took him to win his first CART title and the INDI 500, But that misses the point of Montoya2002-spec.

What Montoya has rammed home to onlookes, beyond all doubt, is that he is fast. Very Fast. In fact , he is now officially the fastest man ever in f1. No man in history has set a faster pole position lap than Montoya. He is only the second man in history to record a 160 mph pole speed, and the bench mark lap at this year's Italian Grand Prix may take some time beating. Montoya is very much the man who has been a thorn in Ferrari's side this season. The statistics may show that it has been a whitewash on Sundays afternoons with Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichelo running away with the races-but Pole day has mostly been about Montoya.

For almost half the season , he has been the man at the front when the lights go out, and he knows that his performances have been vital in injecting some excitement into what has not been a vintage season-As well as reminding people about why he could be the Heir Apparent to the F1 throne."I think it has been good that I have been able to challenge Ferrari , and I think the sport needs that.", Offers Montoya relaxing in the Williams motor home. " It is good for me too-- I don't mind but it would be nice if we can start getting some more wins. In two years I have about 10 poles out of 30 total races , which I think is pretty good, But I only have one win, I need to get that up. Ï need to increase that

He may not say it himself, but when speaking to Montoya you can sence a little underlying frustration about the way his season has unfolded. it is not at the level that he is kicking things or banging his fist on the desk, but more that he has become resigned to a situation tha his only hope so shine has been those one lap blasts on Saturday afternoons. The race themselfs forget it. "It's been more frustrating, the lack of pace, rather than not winning" he says. " If you finish second , half a second behind a Ferrari , then it would not be so disappointing ; but finishing second, 40 seconds behind, certainly is. I think it would also be frustrating if my teamate was winning and I was not, but our car has not been quick enough to win races.

Such frustrations are nothing new to Montoya, though. He grew used to them during his two year sojourn in CART. Although his first season delivered a tittle, the second campaing was full of disappointment as he lead race after race but hardly ever saw the checkered flag."I could have won 10 or 12 races, and I ended up winning two." he says of 2000."I ended up with gear levers in my hand and everything. It was crazy. I was getting really ennoyed, but by the end of the season I learned that **** happens, and if it happens now Then I shrug my shoulder and accept it. Beforehand I just got angry."

Dealing with the downside of motor racing was not the only thing that CART taught Montoya. He learned to win , he learned to overtake and he learned to adapt to cars and circuits much better than any other category where he had raced before. "I miss a lot of things from CART because it was a great series for me. It is probably the best series in the states. -- with ovals, road courses, and street courses, I think that helped me a lot because you have got to learn to drive in any car in any conditions. specially in the ovals. When you didn't get the cars set up, right there, it was a nightmare."

Although it took Montoya time to adapt to Formula 1 he has steadily earned the respect of those around him. He remains one one of the best at playing the political minefield that is the paddock -- and knowsexactly what kind of effect he has on other drivers. this counts not only for his teammate Ralf Schumacher, but more particularly the man every driver is aiming to shoot down-- Michael Schumacher. "Of course it is good" He says of the impact his pole positions have on the mind of other drivers. " They know that if we got a chance then we are going to go for it. They know that if they push , then I am going to push as well."

That realization of Montoya's talents and his attitude to competition may well have been the catalyst for a wholesale change in the relationship between the Colombian and Michael Schumacher this season. From the sparring partners who in Brazil clashed wheels last year and bodywork this season, there is very much a feeling of growing warmth. this is not to say they have become friends, but it is wrong to put them in the same category now as feuding stars Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna, or Niguel Mansell and Nelson Piquet. In fact that clash in Brazil this year, when a Schumacher defensive move took of Montoy's front wing and could have fuelled the biginning of a true war, may have been the best thing that happened between the pair.From that race on, Montoya vowed to give schumacher as good as he got on the track-- and the Ferrari ace perhaps grew to respect it.

Things really came to a head at the post-race celebrations at this year's European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring where Montoya , Walking through one of the Motor homes where a late party was taking place, caught Schumachers eye and was beckoned over for a chat. It opened the floodgates. "It has been good since then" says Montoya of the relationship with Schumacher. "we were in the Motorhome together , he asked me a question and we started talking from there. We discussed some points and that was it."Schumacher himself has openly talked of a change in the way the pair react to each other now--and admits that at first he was wary of Montoya, not because of who he was, but because of the image that had been portrayed of him-- as the arrogant, ultracompetitive-win-at-all-cost man desperate to prove that he is, not Schumacher, was the best in the world.

"The press made it difficult start between us, which is not the way it has been since then at all, "Says Schumacher. " I think there are two reasons for the change. The main reason is that now we know each other and before we didn't. the second was that when he arrived in F1, he actually arrived a long time before he really did. People talked about him for ages, and he had done well in America but that was about it. And doing well in America does not compare to here. I didnt agree with his philosophy, and he was actually very different . I got to know him and I actually quite like him. "

If Montoya's relationship with Schumacher Sr. Has grown strong over the last two years , however there has been anything but a thawing of the way he approaches his own teammate. The Williams duo are very much chalk and cheese -- One, the laid back, extrovert Latin who loves to Joke, Smile, and Play around, and the other an intense, quiet, introverted, German who very much keeps himself to himself.Whoever is right or wrong in the team politics that do take place behind the scenes , or the incidents on track this season -- most notably at indianapolis -- Montoya dose at list admit it is a rivalry that is helping the team. "I think our relationship has always been Ok. We are not The best of Friends, But Its OK. To be Honest, the way it works with Ralf is really good. Because both of Us Work on the car, we always try to beat each other and we always want to be quicker than the other one"

However Montoya and Schumacher JR. approach each other , they both have the same task-- to try and take the fight to Ferrari next season. Williams has admited that it approached this season with too conservative a design for its car-- and that is something the team knows it has to put right for next year. There is talk of a much more radical approach to the design of the Fw-25, and engine supplier BMW is also doing all it can to help on the chassis side as well, but its no good Matching Ferrari next year-- WILLIAMS has to aim to beat it specially now that there is little to choose between the two teams in terms of horse power.

We have to step up our game massively, technically" , admits Montoya. "The equipment we've got is not quick enough, plain and simple. If Williams wants to win, we have to have the speed of Ferrari next year. Look at the straight-line speed-Ferrari is right there. Last year we had a big advantage with the engine, so down the straights we would pull away."If Montoya wants some encouragement for the future, having committed to Williams untill the end of 2006, it comes in the form that the team has been hurt by what has happened this year. Those pole positions , the accolade of the fastest man in history, have meant little in a season that really did fail to deliver.

However, the fact the team has not been able to close the gap on Ferrari as much as it had hoped seems to have only increased the determination to get it right next year. Williams chief operations engineer Sam Michael speaks for the whole team when he says this winter is a make or break time. "A lot of this season has felt like when you are at school and your turn comes for an exam having not done your homework," Allows Michael. " I have had that feeling to many times this year, and im getting a bit tired of it. We must put that right over the winter." The Fastest man in F1 certainly hopes so.

In a year of Ferrari domination, Juan Pablo Montoya astonished Formula One with a run of Five consecutive Pole pOsitions, in the middle of the season. It was, perhaps, not quite as amazing as the manner in which he and his Williams team failed to capitalize on the outright speed he could unleash to such devastating effect over a single lap. It is quite remarkable statistic--and one he'll not want to be reminded of-- that it took him untill the Brittish Gp, his fifth pole of the season, to lead at the end of the first lap. Whenever he has taken pole position, bad luck or lack of consistent pace in the race has held him back.

His best results have more often than not come when his qualifying has been disappointing. And that may very much provide part of the answer to Montoya's remarkable roller coaster of fortunes. To put it in simple terms , the tale of individual races has been all about tires. Ferrari has been able to develop its car in complete cooperation with Bridgestone, which has provided a tire perfectly suited for consistent performance throughout the duration of a race. Williams supplier Michelin has not focused on one team, however, and tried to provide tires that suit both Williams and McLaren. Sometimes this has manifested itself in very soft, grippy ruber perfect for putting in one very quick lap,but that has not had the consistency throughout an entire race distance to take the fight to ferrari.

There is also the fact that Montoya has been able to unleash his own explosive cocktail of speed to much greater effect than his teammate. When Montoya was romping to pole after pole during the middle of the year, Ferrari was left unable to work out what was going on. In the end, Ferrari Technical director Ross Brawn belived that Montoya Factor was hugely important."It was difficult to understand whether they were exceptionally quick in qualifying, or were they poor in racing,"said Brown. "I can't truthfully answer as to which it is, but what is interesting from our point of view is that Ralf seems unable to find the same performance, which leads you to belive that Montoya has found a way to use the car and tires over one lap that gives him the performance."

Its called being very quick.

[B.Verkiler]

And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

[karlth]

Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

Ralf Schumacher was more average, no doubt about it.

Though considering that Montoya has poled 10 times and Ralf only once it would be a stretch to call Ralf the faster qualifier.

[Tomecek]

Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

I was just waiting for similar comments.

However, interesting article. Thanks karlth. Are you Montoya fan or not? I bet you are not.

A challenge! Anti-MS?Anti-JPM?Anti-JV? Say something you admire about someone U hate

Originally posted by karlth
Montoya: A very fast and exciting driver.

[B.Verkiler]

Originally posted by karlth
Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

Ralf Schumacher was more average, no doubt about it.

Though considering that Montoya has poled 10 times and Ralf only once it would be a stretch to call Ralf the faster qualifier.

But since they outqualified each others the same number of times, difficult to see JPM's speed. It happens that on circuits JPm was faster, Ferrari was not dominant.

Logical, RS like technical circuit more than fast ones.

JPM would have made huges gaps, one could agree with his speed, though.

Whatever, another very interesting article on JPm from JPM web site.

[Oho]

Originally posted by karlth
Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

Ralf Schumacher was more average, no doubt about it.

Ave !!!

Yes there is, rather Ralfs performances had less variance, i.e. he was more consistent. Against the field Montoya was more average.

- Oho -

[B.Verkiler]

The pb is that RS never showed any consistency in qualifying. Neither against Fisichella, Hill or Button.

Now, I understand you absolutely want to make him a very consistant driver against Montoya.

[TT6]

Originally posted by B.Verkiler
The pb is that RS never showed any consistency in qualifying.

Also Montoya showed little consistency. Actually, if you look carefully both Ralf's and Monty's qualification record 2002 you'll find them both quite inconsistent: they both beat each other by huge margin every now and then. On average they were very close and they beat each other quite as often.

Monty's poles make him look spectacular however.

[CLX]

JPM's poles were the most exciting thing that happened in this year's season. Everything else was predictable and disapointing for the non-tifosi and non-Schumacher fans.

[holiday]

Next year, with awhole new mode of qualfying, things between Montoya and Ralf could look completely different.

It very well may be that the Montoya story is over before it really began.

[raceday]

Good article. Yes JPM is very quick. He's biggest weaknes IMO is his setup skills. I think that's why he is roughly at the same level overall in qualifying as RS over the whole season. The times he got the car set up good then he got the qualifying good. If not then the result was accordingly. I'd say Ralf is better at setting up the car than JPM is right now.

I think there is some of this in the races too. True, the Car was not good enough in racetrim. But the not quite so consisten results in the races has alot to do with his setup skills. Whether JPM can learn to master the setup skills in full will IMO be crucial for if he will be a WDC or even a multi WDC ? (obviously the quality of car in it self too)

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by Tomecek

I was just waiting for similar comments.

However, interesting article. Thanks karlth. Are you Montoya fan or not? I bet you are not.

Karlth definitly doesn't like Montoya, that's why he is always posting stuff that grlorifies Montoya

[TankSlapper]

Good article karlth. I thought the most interesting part was about the Montoya-M.Schumacher relationship. I think this is something that Juan has picked up from the CART series. Especially when Greg Moore was a part of it there were great friendships and commorodary off the track; yet on the track they battled fiercly, but with respect for each other. Mutual respect can go a long way. This is something that we have seen recently in F1 (between Juan and Rubens and also M.Schumacher) and has really been missing since the 70's.

[tania_walesuk]

Montoya didnt blow away Ralf this season and vice versa. simple as

[DaveK]

The 2 were fairly close but that only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades! Montoya would have been WDC if Ferrari had blown their wad and Ralf would have been the first of the losers. It only takes one point to win.

[Teez]

karlth quoted a magazine article:

His best results have more often than not come when his qualifying has been disappointing. And that may very much provide part of the answer to Montoya's remarkable roller coaster of fortunes. To put it in simple terms , the tale of individual races has been all about tires. Ferrari has been able to develop its car in complete cooperation with Bridgestone, which has provided a tire perfectly suited for consistent performance throughout the duration of a race.

When Ferrari are faster it's solely down to the tyres, but when Montoya poles it's because of skill, not the one-lap wonder tyres from Michelin (and helped by the enormous grunt of qualifying-tuned BMW engines).

[karlth]

Originally posted by Teez
When Ferrari are faster it's solely down to the tyres, but when Montoya poles it's because of skill, not the one-lap wonder tyres from Michelin (and helped by the enormous grunt of qualifying-tuned BMW engines).

The article explains it quite clearly. The Ferraris were about equal in qualifying and race trim whilst it was only one of the Williams cars that managed those poles. Thus ....

[Teez]

Originally posted by karlth

The article explains it quite clearly. The Ferraris were about equal in qualifying and race trim whilst it was only one of the Williams cars that managed those poles. Thus ....

The 'article' is not exactly objective journalism; it's a gushingly pro-Montoya propaganda piece. Still, the point I'm trying to make is not whether Montoya is quick or better or worse than anyone, just that the standard for comparison relies on an inconsistent application of (what boils down to) a lousy excuse.

Better still, let's hear it from the man himself:

"Surely Schumacher is a good driver," BMW Williams' Juan Pablo Montoya said. "But driving the machine that he has, anyone could win." - Juan Pablo Montoya

Source: CBS SportsLine

and

"Everybody thinks that Schumacher wins because he's a magician," the Colombian said of the German ahead of Sunday's German Grand Prix. But he doesn't do things that others don't," the Williams driver told Thursday's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung daily. "He just drives his car, and his car is faster. He's no magician." - Juan Pablo Montoya

Source: Atlas F1 News

Substitute Schumacher with Montoya and win with pole as required. There you go.

[Two Socks]

Originally posted by karlth
The article explains it quite clearly. The Ferraris were about equal in qualifying and race trim whilst it was only one of the Williams cars that managed those poles. Thus ....

As usual, when it comes to Montoya the term 'karlth' is interchangeable with 'disingenuous'.
karlth, you know better than that. You are neither just to Montoya nor to the choices he made this season.

Please do not continue to disparage Montoya by attempting to justify some deceitful piece of fluff written about him. Is it too much to expect the maturity JPM has begun to show this year from his “fans”?

2S

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by holiday
Next year, with awhole new mode of qualfying, things between Montoya and Ralf could look completely different.

It very well may be that the Montoya story is over before it really began.

It very well may be that Montoya's great strength, the one hot lap, could bring him more poles next year than this year

[karlth]

Originally posted by Two Socks
As usual, when it comes to Montoya the term 'karlth' is interchangeable with 'disingenuous'.

And in the case of 'Two Socks' approaching, bring out the dictionary.

Please do not continue to disparage Montoya by attempting to justify some deceitful piece of fluff written about him.

Take it up with the magazine.

Is it too much to expect the maturity JPM has begun to show this year from his “fans”?

It's Friday so instead of starting a 200 post argument fest I'll just say:

"Put a sock in it."

[Two Socks]

Ross, that is JPM’s current strength to date. If he continues to show the progress he demonstrated this year I expect similar performances over the entire race distance in 2003, provided Michelin and Williams get their act together.

I do not see him playing it conservatively – JPM is too straightforward to take that approach.


Ahh, karlth and the perpetual quote fest

The problem of course being that said magazine did not post it here – you did.

So show the maturity JPM has shown and stand up for your insincere verbal jousting.

And please, do not hold me or anyone else here responsible for your poor academic showing. That too is your responsibility. An on-line dictionary is just a mouse-click away.

2S

[Ross Stonefeld]

Ever stop and thinking that......*gasp*.....karl is a Montoya fan?

All he did was post a good article about him from another magazine. He's not promoting anything, just sharing info.

[msarmiento]

Thanks Karlth, great article

[Flash]

About JPM and MS relationship I can say that it has become "more friendly", I read an interview that Montoya gave in Colombia, he said both of them were together having some drinks after the final round in Suzuka singing karaoke, I can't imagine Schumacher singing "La Bamba"

[30ft penguin]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
It very well may be that Montoya's great strength, the one hot lap, could bring him more poles next year than this year

From what I saw this year, Montoya's strength is the one hot lap after doing two or three not-so-hot qualifying laps trying to figure out the right qualifying setup. Next year, he cannot do that.

[ebin]

IIRC, in JPM's first season the complaint was that he couldn't qualify (Ralf comprehensively beat him in 2001) but then he was a better racer than Ralf (in the 2nd half).

Have we all forgotten that?

Perhaps Montoya's skills at qualifying have improved faster than his racing skills?

[Garagiste]

Oooh, it's an evil plot!

Ta for the transcrtipt Karl.

[Clone]

Thanks for posting the article. If it's got comments from drivers, it's worth reading, 'cause then you can skip the fluffy bits.

But a point, if Juan is definitely the faster driver because of his 10 pole positions compared to Ralf's one, over the two years, then why isn't Juan showing this quickness relative to Ralf in the races?

I'm starting to think that Brundle was right when he said, something along the lines of, "Montoya's a bit nuts and bolts when it comes to his car setup and he needs to approach his weekend in preparation for the race." (This was in his Japanese GP commentary on ITV.)

[troyf1]

Time will tell is the best way I can describe it. His speed is not in question. But he is going to have to help develop the car and keep his wits about him whilst in the car. It's fine to be aggressive but it's like the old saying goes....."To finish first you must first finish".

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by karlth
If Montoya wants some encouragement for the future, having committed to Williams untill the end of 2006

Isn't he only signed up till the end of 2004?

[berge]

Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

unfortunately, qualifying doesn't pay the bills.


D r i v e r s c h a m p i o n s h i p 2002
--------------------------------------------------

3------ Juan Pablo Montoya 50
4------ Ralf Schumacher 42

[ZZMS]

Originally posted by berge


unfortunately, qualifying doesn't pay the bills.


D r i v e r s c h a m p i o n s h i p 2002
--------------------------------------------------

3------ Juan Pablo Montoya 50
4------ Ralf Schumacher 42

damn engine that had to be cooled just 2 laps before the race finish....

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by berge


unfortunately, qualifying doesn't pay the bills.

Wins do

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by berge


unfortunately, qualifying doesn't pay the bills.


D r i v e r s c h a m p i o n s h i p 2002
--------------------------------------------------

3------ Juan Pablo Montoya 50
4------ Ralf Schumacher 42

Have you ever though that from 3rd to 6th place there's only a 1 point difference?

3rd = 4 points
4th = 3 points
5th = 2 points
6th = 1 point.

That's why Montoya and Ralf were that close. If Williams had a winning car probably the difference would be bigger than it is (either in JPM's or Ralf's favour).

[Spunout]

IMO B.Verkiler is absolutely correct. JPM excels on fast tracks like Spa, RS on slow technical tracks like Hungary. Williams mostly works well on faster tracks, and therefore JPM has more poles, despite of RS being marginally faster qualifier overall.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Spunout
IMO B.Verkiler is absolutely correct. JPM excels on fast tracks like Spa, RS on slow technical tracks like Hungary. Williams mostly works well on faster tracks, and therefore JPM has more poles, despite of RS being marginally faster qualifier overall.

Only mariginally faster, in fact completely equal. It is interesting how Ralf was always 0.5 sec from pole where as JPM either 0.0 or 1.0.

Over a 60 lap race these laps make him equally fast to Ralf

Hopefully next year he can post only these 0.0 laps in races and take the fight to Michael (and Kimi ;) )

Thanks again for sharing Karlth!

[maclaren]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Have you ever though that from 3rd to 6th place there's only a 1 point difference?

3rd = 4 points
4th = 3 points
5th = 2 points
6th = 1 point.

That's why Montoya and Ralf were that close. If Williams had a winning car probably the difference would be bigger than it is (either in JPM's or Ralf's favour).

I agree, the 8 points difference wouldn't exist if they both finished all 17 races, Montoya and Ralf were so close

[Pets22]

Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

Yes but u can't discount the poles JPM scored - even more so as RS could'nt respond to his speed in qualifying. Interesting article - thanks karlth. JPM performance in qualifying was one of the few higlights of the year - I admit i'm no RS fan - and there must have been a psychological advantage earned by JPM - I also see no reason why the new qual rules will not favour JPM - as a matter of fact any driver who can go right on it immediately.

[baddog]

Originally posted by Pets22
Originally posted by B.Verkiler
And yet on overall, RS was faster in qualifying.

Yes but u can't discount the poles JPM scored - even more so as RS could'nt respond to his speed in qualifying. Interesting article - thanks karlth. JPM performance in qualifying was one of the few higlights of the year - I admit i'm no RS fan - and there must have been a psychological advantage earned by JPM - I also see no reason why the new qual rules will not favour JPM - as a matter of fact any driver who can go right on it immediately.

JPM MAY do very well on the new rules. Last years qualifying does not make that more liekly though as he tended to build up speed as the session went on. that is NOT to say he cannot alter that to use the new rules to his advantage, just that theres nothing last year to indicate he can.

Shaun

[Gudrun]

Originally posted by CLX
JPM's poles were the most exciting thing that happened in this year's season. Everything else was predictable and disapointing for the non-tifosi and non-Schumacher fans.

JPM won more pole positions.
RSch won a Grand Prix.

[Darrenj]

THOUGH I like ferrari
I think it is time that some one stik it to MS, Montoya definitly has the fire in his belly and under his foot, he simply needs a car that can do more than go in straight line really fast!!!!

An outside shot is my personal, Kimi, has the fire but needs the team support and a BETTER car (hello Mclaren????!!!!???)

[FoxM]

Originally posted by Darrenj
THOUGH I like ferrari
I think it is time that some one stik it to MS, Montoya definitly has the fire in his belly and under his foot, he simply needs a car that can do more than go in straight line really fast!!!!

An outside shot is my personal, Kimi, has the fire but needs the team support and a BETTER car (hello Mclaren????!!!!???)

Ohhh It's strange because we think EXACTLY the same!

I can see now: We're not alone.

"Hello World"