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#101 GMiranda

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 15:22

Are there many specialists on rally here?



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#102 RogerFrench

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 19:06

Does anyone know anything about D Phillips in the Jupiter YMC900? Could it have been Paddy Phillips?

#103 Rupertlt1

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 19:57

See:

 

https://revslib.stan...tem/nx501mb1091

 

http://www.stilltime...propaganda.html

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 27 April 2017 - 10:59.


#104 Seedy

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:28

Ref - photos above BOTH look like they are taken at Pardon Hairpin at Prescott Hillclimb on the 1953 RAC Rally

 

Ref - Are there any rally specialists on here.

 

Cant get more knowledgable than AAGR and there are a few others on here that can help out too.

 

Chris



#105 GMiranda

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:34

I asked because in this forum I see alot of emphasis on racing, but there are very few rallying-related threads and people, it appears



#106 Rupertlt1

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 12:20

1962 R.A.C. Rally

 

[This is an attempt to document the 1962 R.A.C. Rally - best efforts - does anyone have the programme?]

 

​#1 Mercedes-Benz, Eugen Bohringer, Brian Culcheth, DNF            

#2 Volvo 122S, registration 080317, Gunnar Andersson, Douglas Johns, 8th

#3 Austin Healey 3000, registration 57 ARX, Don Morley, Erle Morley, DNF

#4 Saab 96, registration P91990, Erik Carlsson, David Stone, 1st

#5 Austin Healey 3000, registration 77 ARX, Pat Moss, Pauline Mayman, 3rd

#6 Mini Cooper, registration 977 ARX, Rauno Aaltonen, Tony Ambrose, 5th

#7 Triumph TR4A, registration 5 VC, Jean-Jacques Thuner, J.M. Gretener, 9th

#8 Mini Cooper, Bengt Soderstrom, Henry Liddon

#9 Austin 850, registration 867 OYA, Geoff Mabbs, 63rd

#10 Sunbeam Rapier IIIA, registration 6145 RW, I.D.L. Lewis, D. Mabbs, 4th

#11 MG 1100, registration 977 CBL, David Seigle-Morris, Rupert Jones, DNF

#12 Triumph TR4, registration 3 VC, John Sprinzel, Willy Cave, 15th

#13

#14 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 5191 RW, Peter Harper, Norman Garrad, DNF

#15 Austin Healey, registration SMO 745?, Peter Riley, H. Nash

#16 Rover, registration 679 DNX, Ken James, M. Hughes, 11th

#17

#18 Austin Healey Sprite, registration YRX 737, Tony Gold, Tony Dyke

#19 Austin Healey 3000, registration 67 ARX, Paddy Hopkirk, Bill Scott, 2nd

#20 Rover, registration 678 DNX, Raymond Baxter, Ernest Macmillan, DNF

#21 Mercedes-Benz, H. Kuhne

#22 Volkswagen, E Stocke, E Folten

#23 Mercedes-Benz, Ewy Rosqvist/Ursula Wirth, DNS

#24 Ford Anglia, registration OO 1406, K. Chambers, P. Marshall

#25 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 6 EUE, Derrick Astle, Peter Roberts

#26 Mini Cooper, Tom Trana

#27 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 115 CUE, Jimmy Ray, John Hopwood

#28 Triumph Vitesse, registration 407 VC, Vic Elford, M. Butler

#29 Austin Mini, registration 899 PPP, P. Easter, D. Thompson 

#30 Ford Anglia Super, registration OO 1408, Henry Taylor, B. Melia, 6th

#31 Morris Mini, registration 4604 YG, F. Crossley, A. Senior

#32 Mini Cooper, registration 477 BBL, Logan Morrison, R. Finlay, 13th

#33 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 63 TKJ

#34 Ford Anglia Super, crew Anne Hall, Val Domleo, DNF

#35 Triumph TR4, registration 6 VC, M Sutcliffe, R Fidler, 16th 

#36 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 7 EUE, Anthony Fisher, John King, DNF

#37 Volvo, P Bolton, M Kempley, 17th 

#38 Morris Mini Cooper, registration 407 ARX, Timo Makinen, John Steadman, 7th

#39 Ford Anglia, registration 897 ELA, S. Silverthorne, J. Burke 

#40 Rover, A.E. Bengry, D. Skeffington

#41 Ford Cortina 1200, registration TOO 528, Jeff Uren, Mike Crabtree

#42 Austin-Healey Sprite, registration DWS 97, D.H. Wilson-Spratt, A. Piggott

#43 Morris, T. Hunter, R. Exon 

#44 Ford Anglia, registration 12 NMA, Phil Simister, D. Ralphs

#45 Sunbeam, J Wood/C Wood 

#46 Austin Healey 3000, crew D. Grimshaw, G. Allen

#47 Morris Mini, J Spiers/J Banks

#48 Sunbeam Alpine Harrington, registration MEL 63, Peter Pilsworth, Gregor Grant, 

#49

#50 Porsche, registration XUG 7, H. O'Connor-Rorke, K. Deacon

#51 Sunbeam Alpine, registration 9202 RW, Rosemary Smith, Rosemary Seers

#52 Morris, D R Hiam, D Holland

#53 Ford Anglia, registration 897 ELH, G King/C Sproxton

#54 Morris Mini, registration NYJ 678, John Wadsworth, Mike Wood

#55 Sunbeam Rapier, registration D 63, John La Trobe, Julian Chitty

#56 Vauxhall, registration SD 88, J. McInnes/S. Parker

#57 Fiat, M Hinde/J Barritt

#58 Sunbeam Rapier, registration MH 82, M Harris/P Walton 

#59 Ford Anglia, registration OO 1407, E Harrison/J Harrison 

#60 Morris Mini, J. Partridge, M. Britton

#61 Triumph Vitesse, registration 444 GBF, P Astbury/B Harper

#62 Saab, registration WHL 351, G. Bowes, J. Wheatley

#63 Morris, R. Broad/

#64 Ford Zodiac, registration 5446 EZ, R McElhinney, P Baldam, S Gray

#65 Wolseley, C. Bent-Marshall/R. Britt 

#66 Ford Anglia, registration 847 BBU, Reg McBride, Don Barrow

#67 Ford, A. Doble/J. Johnston

#68 Ford Anglia Allardette, registration 977 CGJ, B. Hadfield/G. Haggie, 19th

#69 Morris Mini, registration SD 12, T. Paton, R. Dixon, 18th

#70 Renault R8, registration 6455 MG, B. Brace/S. Turner

#71 Ford Anglia Allardette, Mrs P Haggie/Mrs S Taylor 

#72 TVR Grantura Mk2, registration XFV 865, S Pateman, J Spencer 

#73 Sunbeam Alpine Harrington, registration 2 EGG, John Melvin, Graham Gauld

#74 Volkswagen, registration 101 UP, W. Fieldhouse/W. Small

#75 Sunbeam Rapier, registration GSH 500, A. Cowan/B. Coyle

#76 Ford Anglia, I. Terry, R. Davies

#77 TVR, George Humble, J Grimshaw

#78 Reliant Sabre, registration 42 ENX, C. Aston, G. Cooper

#79 Morris, M. Marsden/R. Thorpe

#80 Triumph, D. Thompson/K. Kaye 

#81

#82 MGB, registration GWC 11, R. Richards, G. Davies

#83 Morris, R Parr/T Oldham 

#84 Sunbeam, D Pollard/J Baines, 20th

#85 Triumph, L Jemson/H Beighton 

#86 Austin, N Harvey/D Cardell 

#87 Vauxhall, Alec Lobb/B Lockyear 

#88 Morris, R Eaves/P Doand   

#89 Austin Mini, registration 4700 RE, T Baker/John Handley

#90 Triumph, L Bertorelli/A Straker

#91 Sunbeam, A Crusher/D Gamble

#92 Mini, registration 840 SKE, P Collins/H Horton

#93 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 300 HPT, G. Cook, D. Bowes

#94 Mercedes-Benz, F Scott/R Parker

#95 Sunbeam, D Stammers/R Cutler

#96 Ford, W Hayes/S Bate

#97 Triumph, D Day/R Irwin 

#98 Sunbeam, H Cooper/K Pryor

#99 Ford Consul Classic, W Worswick, T Houghton

#100 MGA, registration XAK 140, J Rhodes, K Barraclough 

#101 Ford Anglia, N Thorne, D Pratt

#102 Morris Mini, Len Gibson/H. Murland, 23rd 

#103 Morris, R. Bowers/J. Hedderly 

#104 Sunbeam Rapier, registration VFV 993, Bob Lamb/Tony Mason, 43rd

#105 Ford, A McCracken/S McCracken 

#106 Austin Healey, M Day/N Mobsby

#107 Ford, L Keary/L Griffiths 

#108 Fiat, D Higson/R Moody/J Harmer 

#109 Triumph TR4, Miss P Walker, Miss K Davies

#109 Triumph, Miss P Walker/Miss K Davies 

#110 Austin, R A Clark/A Porter 

#111 Triumph, B Petch/H Miller 

#112 Ford, S Skelly/G Youngson 

#113 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 63 TKO, L. Chamberlain/W. Mullen 

#114 Vauxhall, Aggleton/Preston 

#115 Vauxhall, I. Baillie/Davenport 

#116 Vauxhall, R Holmes/K Reynolds 

#117 Saab, E Masheder/E Peters 

#118 Ford Anglia Allardette, Alan Allard/R Mackie 

#119 Ford, R. Cullen/D. Peterson 

#120 Volkswagen, M Day/A Gorst 

#121 Porsche, P Kerridge/R Barlow 

#122 Mercedes-Benz, I Grant/D Haig/S Fisk 

#123 Rover, J Cuff/N Baguley, 14th 

#124 Triumph, R Hobro/R Davies 

#125 Vauxhall, W Banks/W Barlow 

#126 Austin, F Richmond/M Gethin

#127 Ford Anglia Allardette, Sydney Allard/Tom Fisk

#128 Volkswagen, D Moreton/M Mackie/A Mason 

#129 Triumph, R Bennett/G Foster 

#130 Austin, P Moon/I Cameron 

#131 Peugeot, J Barnes/M Ford 

#132 Ford, C Edwards/P Mays 

#133 Sunbeam, H Burke/M Daghorn 

#134 Volvo 122S, Sylvia Osterberg, Mrs Cecile Pattison, 10th

#135 Peugeot, J Feeney/T Lawmon 

#136 Ford, E Jackson/K Joseph 

#137 Ford, R Neal/S Neal 

#138 Peugeot, G Jopp/H Martin 

#139 Austin , B Greaves/T Weaver 

#140 Volvo 122S, L. Gillmo, L. Berdgren, 12th*

#141 Volvo, J Wallwork/K Armstrong 

#142 Morris, R Crawford/W Syer

#143 Volkswagen, registration 5005 CZ, J McSpadden, J Armstrong

#144 Volkswagen, H. Davies/C. Dart

#145 Ford, J. Trigg/L. Taylor/J. Laing

#146 Tornado, B. Sherwood/Osterli

#147 Ford, S. Davey/T. Bosence

#148 Sunbeam, A. Hartwell/F. Scott 

#149 Saab, C. Elswood/D. Chappell

#150 Austin, Miss D Freeman/Miss Elizabeth Jones 

#151 Sunbeam, J Cotter/B Ward

 

#157 Ford Anglia

 

Fragments:

Austin Cooper, J. Gay

Austin Cooper, I. Miller

Saab, O. Dahl

Sunbeam, Alan Fraser

Sunbeam, Peter Proctor

Triumph TR3

Triumph Spitfire

Vauxhall VX 4/90, registration 2 FTM

Volvo, registration 65 ELF

Volvo, DNF

Volvo, DNF

Ford, DNS

Ford, DNS

Mercedes-Benz, DNS

Sunbeam, DNS

Sunbeam, DNS

Volkswagen, DNS

 

Questions/comments:

*Thought to be Lenart Berggren, but Automobile Year, 1962-1963, lists finishing crew as Gillmo-Jones, 12th,

Best Performance by a Privately-owned Car, Motor Sport.

 

Automobile Year, 1962-1963: 158 starters, 102 finishers

Motor Sport: 158 starters, including reserves

 

RGDS RLT 


Edited by Rupertlt1, 08 May 2017 - 11:14.


#107 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 15:59

I don't have the 1962 RAC program...but I do have the road book as my Dad did it in #31 with Fred Crossley in Fred's 998 Cooper

I'll try and give more info shortly......



#108 Rupertlt1

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 16:12

Mr Dastardly,

 

You might like:

 

http://www.stilltime...lmsford-mc.html

 

RGDS

 

RLT



#109 bradbury west

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 17:24

Talking of the excellent Stilltime site, the other day I thought I would check it for any old early Lotus archive stuff, so I entered Lotus in the search box. In among some good images of race cars were three good shots of an Elan in an early 1960s Monte Carlo Rally. Check it out. It is on the second page if you sort it for 96 images pp. Cannot post a link.
Roger Lund

#110 Seedy

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 20:46

REF the 1962 RAC Rally some additions

 

#40 Bengry & Skeffington reg 677 ONX

 

#101 reg OWT 10

 

#76 reg 616 VNO

 

#51 reg 9202 RW this is the same car that was used by Sunbeam at Le Mans.

 

Back on the 1958 RAC Rally no 139 a Lotus 11 reg XAR 11 'was' the same Index of Performance winning car at the 1957 Le Mans.

 

Those were the days.

 

Chris



#111 RobMk2a

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 20:58

TVR at the RAC Rally
Has anyone got the registration number or clear photograph of George Humble No. 77 on the 1962 RAC Rally. The car is in TVR works colours (white with twin green stripes) similar to the Le Mans car.

The other car I'd like to Identify it RAC Rally 1961 No. 16 TVR Peter Bolton / Gordon Shanley - I think this is Arnold Burton's Mk2 Grantura AJB 66.

Thanks

Rob

Edited by RobMk2a, 27 April 2017 - 21:25.


#112 Darren Galpin

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 07:30

http://www.dlg.speed.../62euro.html#11 - I think the results I have here largely follow what RupertIt1 has, I need to go through and cross-reference in more detail. I've also got the top 6 stage times for the first 38 stages, no programme though....



#113 Rupertlt1

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 10:38

Darren, The new stuff is based on Revs and Stilltime (Reg Numbers etc) - took many hours - and top twenty from Automobile Year, 1962-1963.

We really need to get source documents to improve from here.

It grieves me that these are hard to find. After all this is GB number one event.

(I used to be in Hamsterley Forest in the early seventies.)

BTW I've got top twenty for ERC events, 1961 and 1962, from Automobile Year.

I'll get them to you somehow. PM me with email address.

 

RGDS RLT

 

 

 



#114 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 20:34

Thanks RLT.....I already have that photo,.......not certain whereabouts it was taken though. Fred behind the wheel & dad in the passenger seat.



#115 Rupertlt1

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 23:13

See: http://www.gettyimag...ure-id637486358

 

#115 Vauxhall VX 4/90, registration 2 FTM, I. Baillie/Davenport

 

#134 Volvo 122S, registration O 80323, Sylvia Osterberg, Mrs Cecile Pattison, 10th

 

RGDS RLT

 

 



#116 Rupertlt1

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 09:37

Thanks RLT.....I already have that photo,.......not certain whereabouts it was taken though. Fred behind the wheel & dad in the passenger seat.

 

Presumably the road book has a list of control points? We may be able to pick the location out of a long list?

 

RGDS RLT



#117 Rupertlt1

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 11:34

REF the 1962 RAC Rally some additions

 

#40 Bengry & Skeffington reg 677 ONX

 

The #40 Bengry & Skeffington Rover is 677 DNX, seen here:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/yk849gd6321

 

[Note rally plates on wall from Liège-Sofia-Liège Rally, #3, #10, #37.]

 

See also: http://www.ruediger-...yRover_1984.htm

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 30 April 2017 - 13:34.


#118 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 18:20

I'll try and put some stuff on here on Wed from the '62 Road Book....have had a busy weekend and I'm fully occupied tomorrow, Wed is my 1st free day...



#119 bradbury west

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 18:39

OT but connected....
Check out Stilltime photo archives, see link above, for more shots of the Rover team in Coupe des Alpes, plus Reliant Scimitar, plus early TVR, lots of marvellous shots. Enter Rally, Monte, Coupe des Alpes, TVR, whatever you fancy, and there will be some linked pictures. Monte and CdesAlpes are superb
Usual disclaimers
Roger Lund

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#120 RobMk2a

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 20:07

FYI the TVR is Stan Pateman's Grantura Mk2a in the RAC Rally.

Rob

#121 Darren Galpin

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 21:17

http://www.sporting-...ort_history.htm - this has Ray/Hopwood (Reliant Sabre) finishing 38th. I think that this must be in error, as https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y94tcSuPnAIC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=Lamb+Mason+1962+RAC+Sunbeam+Rapier&source=bl&ots=rwErPLnUL6&sig=OK2h4uQkdL_dswWcpX77DK_QwTk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_8refkNLTAhXnLcAKHf66BmkQ6AEILzAC#v=onepage&q=Lamb%20Mason%201962%20RAC%20Sunbeam%20Rapier&f=false also has Mason in 38th....



#122 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:22

From 1962 Lombank RAC Rally Road book:

 

Leg 1 Schedule:

       [Main Control]  M1   Blackpool  Nov 12  @ 16.00    

                                M2  Helmsley                 @ 18.52 - 19.49  [Earliest - Latest Time]

                                M3  Blanchland  Nov 13 @ 01.01 - 02.44

                                M4  Peebles IN               @ 06.07 - 07.14     Breakfast Halt of 1 hr 16 mins

                                M5  Peebles OUT           @ 08.30   

                                M6  Lochearnhead          @ 11.15 - 12.10

                                M7  Inverness                 @ 15.31 - 16.37

                                M8  Brechin                     @ 21.58 - 23.45

                                M9  Peebles IN  Nov 14  @ 04.30 - 06.05     Breakfast Halt of 1 hr 25 mins

                                M10 Peebles Out            @ 07.30

                                M11 Armathwaite            @ 09.53 - 10.40

                                M12 Blackpool IN            @ 14.42 - 16.00

 

On that leg, there were stages in Cropton, Pickering, Staindale, Hamsterley, Kielder, Redesdale before the 1st Breakfast Halt.....then Carron, Loch Ard, Culbin Forest, Orderquish,  White Ash,

Bin Forest, Classindarroch, Drumochty, Tentsmuit & Tullianlan-De-Villa before the 2nd Breakfast Halt.....then Newcastleton, Greystoke, Whinlatter, Wythop & Dodd then the run back into Blackpool. 

They were on the go for 48 hours with just 2 pauses at Peebles for the Breakfast Halts......and that was just Leg 1 :drunk:

 

Car 31 was 10th o'all at end of this leg, the Leading Private Entry :drunk:


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 03 May 2017 - 10:56.


#123 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:37

Leg 2 Schedule:

             M13  Blackpool OUT   Nov 15  @ 11.00

             M14  Oulton Park IN                 @ 12.48 - 13.38

             M15  Oulton Park OUT             @ 14.23

             M16  Cross Foxes                     @ 17.34 - 18.37

             M17  Tregaron            Nov 16   @ 00.17 - 02.11

             M18  LLansantffraid IN              @ 05.53 - 07.07  Breakfast Halt of 33 mins [near Abergavenny]

             M19  LLansantffraid OUT          @ 07.40               

             M20  Redhill                              @ 09.57 - 11.00

             M21  The Oakdale Hotel IN      @ 14.10 - 15.35   Presumably a Holding / Re-group Control on outskirts of Bournemouth

             M22  The Oakdale Hotel OUT  @ 15.40

             M23  Bournemouth                    @ 16.00

 

Stages included Oulton Park, Clocaenog, Gwydyr, Coed-Y-Brenin, Dovey, Dyfnant, Radnor, Coed Sarnau, Hafren1 & 2, Myherin, Brechfa, Crychan, and Eppynt all before Breakfast with just Bovington 1 & 2 afterwards.   

 

Car 31 lost time in refitting the sumpguard after servicing, so dropped out of the top 10 and losing their lead in the Private Entrants category  ):    


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 03 May 2017 - 10:58.


#124 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:50

The Oulton Park Stage was different !

After M14 [IN control], the navigator/co-driver vacated the car, it was a driver-only stage [maybe an idea for a modern day circuit stage event?] :drunk:

Stage Start was at end of pit lane, drivers had to do almost 5 laps [passing the pits 4 times], at end of 5th lap come into pit lane then into the paddock [remember no Armco etc in those days, easy access], stop at the finish, jump out and stop the clock / punch their time cards using the clock on the marshals' table. They then drove out of the Finish area to a PC where the timecards were handed in, and the navigators re-joined them.

Whilst on the circuit the onus of completing the correct no of laps rested with the driver, neither the navigator nor any crew member could assist in this. :drunk:


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 03 May 2017 - 11:00.


#125 RobMk2a

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:39

For the 1962 RAC Rally do you have leg / stage by stage results for the full field or just #31, I'd like to find out how far #72 Stan Pateman and #77 George Humble TVR got, and also if possible the reason for stopping.

Thank you

Rob

#126 Rupertlt1

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:00

1962: Also looking for evidence of:

 

#13, #17, #49, #81

Austin Cooper, J. Gay

Austin Cooper, I. Miller

Saab, O. Dahl

Sunbeam, Alan Fraser

Sunbeam, Peter Proctor 

Triumph TR3

Triumph Spitfire

 

Also this would indicate Harry Kallstrom was on the 1962 RAC?

 

https://www.rallyand...int.html?lang=1

 

But was he there?

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 May 2017 - 12:17.


#127 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:45

I don't have any leg / stage results for the whole field but somewhere [not to hand] I have the Motoring News Reports for the rally. I may also have the Autosport reports as well, will try & dig tem out this weekend.

I don't even have individual stage times for #31 but the MN reports confirm their position at the end of each leg.



#128 RS2000

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 13:05

1962: Also looking for evidence of:
 
#13, #17, #49, #81
Austin Cooper, J. Gay
Austin Cooper, I. Miller
Saab, O. Dahl
Sunbeam, Alan Fraser
Sunbeam, Peter Proctor 
Triumph TR3
Triumph Spitfire
 
Also this would indicate Harry Kallstrom was on the 1962 RAC?
 
https://www.rallyand...int.html?lang=1
 
But was he there?
 
RGDS RLT


No sign of Kallstrom on the 62 entry list. In 63 he was in a VW1500S and in 64 in the BMC Sweden green and white works built Cooper S.

#129 Rupertlt1

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 13:43

No sign of Kallstrom on the 62 entry list. In 63 he was in a VW1500S and in 64 in the BMC Sweden green and white works built Cooper S.

 

Thanks. I think it is just an error but wanted to check (Harry Kallstrom was 2nd O/A in 1963).

 

Can you shed any light on other enquiries? Would love to get my hands on an entry list?

(If you have no scanner just photograph with camera or phone.)

 

RGDS RLT



#130 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 15:00

In the road book there are no tulips etc for the stages.....there's a tulip leading off the road into the Stage...the next instruction is Stage Finish with Inter [Stage Length] and Total mileage then next tulip leads back onto the public road. In those days, stages really were driven blind.



#131 RS2000

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 19:13

In the road book there are no tulips etc for the stages.....there's a tulip leading off the road into the Stage...the next instruction is Stage Finish with Inter [Stage Length] and Total mileage then next tulip leads back onto the public road. In those days, stages really were driven blind.


Not just then. Co-driving in 1977 I recall another competitor from south of the equator coming up to me before the start of stage 1 and asking "hey mate, what do we do for this bit? There's no instructions. Just follow the arrows we'll see? and go like hell. Oh, OK, cheers".

#132 Rupertlt1

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 19:22

Is the picture of #31 here:

 

http://www.stilltime...lmsford-mc.html

 

Taken here at Helmsley?

 

https://www.google.c...!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

Also here:

 

https://www.dreamsti...t-video44471006

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 03 May 2017 - 20:03.


#133 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 20:13

1962: Also looking for evidence of:

 

#13, #17, #49, #81

Austin Cooper, J. Gay

Austin Cooper, I. Miller

Saab, O. Dahl

Sunbeam, Alan Fraser

Sunbeam, Peter Proctor 

Triumph TR3

Triumph Spitfire

 

Also this would indicate Harry Kallstrom was on the 1962 RAC?

 

https://www.rallyand...int.html?lang=1

 

But was he there?

 

RGDS RLT

 

Harry wasn't there.

 

There was no 13.

 

17 was Peter Harper and Ian Hall in a Rapier. You have 14 as Harper but I think that was Peter Procter and Barry Hughes.

 

49 was Olle Dahl in a Saab.

 

81 was Ken Piper & T.Yoward in a DKW.

 

J.Gay was 154.

 

I.V.I.Miller was 161.

 

Alan Fraser was 33 with Peter Jopp.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Fred



#134 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:34

Rupert, the photo of #31 being at Helmsley?...That's my thought as well...,,Helmsley was before the 1st stage [Cropton], car looks too clean to have done any stages  



#135 Rupertlt1

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 18:51

Rupert, the photo of #31 being at Helmsley?...That's my thought as well...,,Helmsley was before the 1st stage [Cropton], car looks too clean to have done any stages  

 

The picture was published in Autocar, 16 November 1962, Page 899:

Caption:

"Helmsley time control. The Morris Mini of Crossley and Senior is about to leave."

 

RGDS RLT



#136 Rupertlt1

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:26

1962:

 

17 Reserves

#152 Sunbeam Rapier, Ross-Denby/O'Keefe

#153 Simca, Bloxham/Morris/Harris

#154 Austin Mini Cooper, J. Gay/Paine

#155 Austin Mini Cooper, Folts/Bishop

#156 Saab, Freeman/Smith

#157 Ford Anglia, Gardner/Parker

#158 Wolseley, Burch/Burn

#159 Sunbeam Rapier, Cartwright/Liddle

#160 Ford Anglia, Farrar/Moore

#161 Austin Mini Cooper, I.V.I. Miller/Miller

#162 Ford Anglia, Orde/Mason

#163 Austin Healey 3000, Russell/Miss Scott

#164 Fiat 1500, Henry/Maynard

#165 Volkswagen, Cracknell/Lewin

#166 Hillman, Warner/Healey

#167 Triumph, Willcocks/Smith

#168 Vauxhall VX 4/90, Glennie/Whitmarsh

 

I have evidence that #154, #157, #161, #168 started the rally.

#157 reached Peebles: https://revslib.stan...log/mb558wh1029

(If they were called off in number order then they all had the opportunity to run. A report describes Glennie's Vauxhall VX 4/90 as "the last of the reserves.")

Evidence points to 158 starters, 102 finishers. Total of 167 entries, including reserves, #13 not allocated.

The original entry list had 150 cars, as published in THE MOTOR, 7 November 1962. Not sure why they started 158?

 

RGDS RLT 


Edited by Rupertlt1, 06 May 2017 - 11:26.


#137 RobMk2a

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:04

1962 RAC

77 TVR George Humble - J Grimshaw.

I'm trying to identify this car but can't read the registration number it could be YFR 752 or 751 or 753 which are the cars sent to Le Mans in 1962. However there are differences as the Le Mans cars didn't have quarterlights. The other alternative is is one of the 2 Mk3's sent to Sebring in 63 or a torsion bar car from Sebring 62. If anyone has a clearer photo of the registration number I would be grateful. Also can you identify the location, there is quite a prominent hill in the background.

Thank for your help.

Rob

https://purl.stanford.edu/px045bn8737

#138 Rupertlt1

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:00

1962:

Rob, Looking at this sequence of photographs they are taken in Wales.

I think the pictures of the ford over the river, with stepping stones, are taken at World's End:

 

"World’s End lies on a single track road from the small village of Minera near Wrexham to a public car park at the top of the Eglwyseg Valley, the drive giving one an unreal sense of seclusion from the modern world. The road fords the Eglwyseg River and passes under the Horseshoe Pass before eventually reaching Llangollen..."

 

See also Eglwyseg Mountain and Horseshoe Pass, near Llangollen, Denbighshire.

The #77 TVR picture is one of a sequence taken in fading light, on 15 November 1962, as the cars headed into Wales on the second leg of the rally. Sunset would occur in Llangollen at 16:17 approx. The rally was scheduled to reach Blaenau Ffestiniog at 17:37. (The rally ended in Bournemouth at 16:00, 16 November.)

 

RGDS RLT 


Edited by Rupertlt1, 07 May 2017 - 11:28.


#139 RobMk2a

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 14:37

Rupert,

Thank you excellent reply, I wonder if George eventually reached Bournemouth, I've not seen him in the results.

I think there must be other photos of the TVR if it got as far as Leg 2, hopefully if found they may give the registration number.

Regards

Rob

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#140 Rupertlt1

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 15:44

Rupert,

Thank you excellent reply, I wonder if George eventually reached Bournemouth, I've not seen him in the results.

I think there must be other photos of the TVR if it got as far as Leg 2, hopefully if found they may give the registration number.

Regards

Rob

 

1962 RAC Rally: The ford is here:  https://www.google.c...!7i13312!8i6656

 

Surely the RAC must have issued official results? Also I have seen no photographs or film taken in Bournemouth at the finish?

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 07 May 2017 - 15:51.


#141 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 20:11

Roger Moore aka The Saint rallied a TVR on an RAC :drunk:

There is an episode of The Saint where Roger pretends to be a rally driver, testing a Marcos, then using a TVR on a "Round Britain Rally"...the episode uses footage of the '64 rally :drunk:



#142 RobMk2a

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 21:10

Yes - thanks Roger Moore's car was a Vixen S1.

Rob.

#143 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:04

R.A.C. Rally 1962 fragments:

 

Still looking for crew on:

 

#49 Saab, Olle Dahl, ????, DNF accident

#63 Morris Mini, R. Broad, ???? 

 

African connection:

#135 Peugeot 404, J. Feeney/T. Lawmon

This was Jimmy Feeney from Tanganyika?

See: http://blog.gforces....am-founder/3462

BTW #138 Peugeot 404, George Jopp/H Martin. A works-entered car for George Jopp, father of Peter.

 

A trade advertisement states "transmission and final drive" on the winning Saab manufactured in North London by E.N.V. ENGINEERING CO. LTD, Hythe Road, Willesden, N.W.l0. (This company became a cause célèbre in trade union circles, subsequently closed due to industrial strife.) Can anybody shed more light on Saab drivetrain?

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 08 May 2017 - 10:34.


#144 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:21

1962:

 

17 Reserves

#152 Sunbeam Rapier, Ross-Denby/O'Keefe

#153 Simca, Bloxham/Morris/Harris

#154 Austin Mini Cooper, J. Gay/Paine

#155 Austin Mini Cooper, Folts/Bishop

#156 Saab, Freeman/Smith

#157 Ford Anglia, Gardner/Parker

#158 Wolseley, Burch/Burn

#159 Sunbeam Rapier, Cartwright/Liddle

#160 Ford Anglia, Farrar/Moore

#161 Austin Mini Cooper, I.V.I. Miller/Miller

#162 Ford Anglia, Orde/Mason

#163 Austin Healey 3000, Russell/Miss Scott

#164 Fiat 1500, Henry/Maynard

#165 Volkswagen, Cracknell/Lewin

#166 Hillman, Warner/Healey

#167 Triumph, Willcocks/Smith

#168 Vauxhall VX 4/90, Glennie/Whitmarsh

 

I have evidence that #154, #157, #161, #168 started the rally.

#157 reached Peebles: https://revslib.stan...log/mb558wh1029

(If they were called off in number order then they all had the opportunity to run. A report describes Glennie's Vauxhall VX 4/90 as "the last of the reserves.")

Evidence points to 158 starters, 102 finishers. Total of 167 entries, including reserves, #13 not allocated.

The original entry list had 150 cars, as published in THE MOTOR, 7 November 1962. Not sure why they started 158?

 

RGDS RLT 

 

The official reserves started from number 160.

 

162 was the only non-starter of the cars you list.



#145 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:23

Rupert,

Thank you excellent reply, I wonder if George eventually reached Bournemouth, I've not seen him in the results.

I think there must be other photos of the TVR if it got as far as Leg 2, hopefully if found they may give the registration number.

Regards

Rob

 

George Humble was 55th overall and 11th in class.



#146 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:40

R.A.C. Rally 1962:

 

[This is an attempt to document the 1962 R.A.C. Rally - best efforts - Version 2, lists above void.]

 

#1 Mercedes-Benz, Eugen Bohringer, Brian Culcheth, DNF            

#2 Volvo 122S, registration 080317, Gunnar Andersson, Douglas Johns, 8th

#3 Austin Healey 3000, registration 57 ARX, Don Morley, Erle Morley, DNF

#4 Saab 96, registration P91990, Erik Carlsson, David Stone, 1st

#5 Austin Healey 3000, registration 77 ARX, Pat Moss, Pauline Mayman, 3rd

#6 Morris Mini Cooper, registration 977 ARX, Rauno Aaltonen, Tony Ambrose, 5th

#7 Triumph TR4A, registration 5 VC, Jean-Jacques Thuner, J.M. Gretener, 9th

#8 Morris Mini Cooper, Bengt Soderstrom, Henry Liddon, DNF crankshaft

#9 Austin 850, registration 867 OYA, Geoff Mabbs, Turvey, 63rd

#10 Sunbeam Rapier IIIA, registration 6145 RW, I.D.L. Lewis, D. Mabbs, 4th

#11 MG 1100, registration 977 CBL, David Seigle-Morris, Rupert Jones, DNF

#12 Triumph TR4, registration 3 VC, John Sprinzel, Willy Cave, 15th

#13 N/A

#14 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 5191 RW, Peter Procter, Barry Hughes, DNF

#15 Austin Healey, registration SMO 745, Peter Riley, H. Nash, DNF

#16 Rover 3-Litre, registration 679 DNX, Ken James, M. Hughes, 11th

#17 Sunbeam Rapier, Peter Harper, Ian Hall, DNF

#18 Austin Healey Sprite, registration YRX 737, Tony Gold, Tony Dyke, DNF

#19 Austin Healey 3000, registration 67 ARX, Paddy Hopkirk, Bill Scott, 2nd

#20 Rover 3-Litre, registration 678 DNX, Raymond Baxter, Ernest Macmillan, 24th 

#21 Mercedes-Benz, H. Kuhne, DNS

#22 Volkswagen, E Stocke, E Folten

#23 Mercedes-Benz, Ewy Rosqvist, Ursula Wirth, DNS

#24 Ford Anglia, registration OO 1406, K. Chambers, P. Marshall

#25 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 6 EUE, Derrick Astle, Peter Roberts, DNF

#26 Morris Mini Cooper, Tom Trana, Ron Crellin, DNF driveshaft

#27 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 115 CUE, Jimmy Ray, John Hopwood, 38th

#28 Triumph Vitesse, registration 407 VC, Vic Elford, M. Butler

#29 Austin Mini, registration 899 PPP, P. Easter, D. Thompson

#30 Ford Anglia Super, registration OO 1408, Henry Taylor, Brian Melia, 6th

#31 Morris Mini, registration 4604 YG, F. Crossley, A. Senior

#32 Morris Mini Cooper, registration 477 BBL, Logan Morrison, R. Finlay, 13th

#33 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 63 TKJ, Alan Fraser, Peter Jopp

#34 Ford Anglia Super, crew Anne Hall, Val Domleo, DNF

#35 Triumph TR4, registration 6 VC, M Sutcliffe, R Fidler, 16th

#36 Reliant Sabre 4, registration 7 EUE, Anthony Fisher, John King

#37 Volvo, P Bolton, M Kempley, 17th

#38 Morris Mini Cooper, registration 407 ARX, Timo Makinen, John Steadman, 7th

#39 Ford Anglia, registration 897 ELA, S. Silverthorne, J. Burke 

#40 Rover, registration 677 DNX?, A.E. Bengry, D. Skeffington

#41 Ford Cortina 1200, registration TOO 528, Jeff Uren, Mike Crabtree

#42 Austin-Healey Sprite, registration DWS 97, D.H. Wilson-Spratt, A. Piggott, DNF

#43 Morris, T. Hunter, R. Exon

#44 Ford Anglia Allardette, registration 12 NMA, Phil Simister, D. Ralphs, 21st 

#45 Sunbeam, J Wood/C Wood

#46 Austin Healey 3000, crew D. Grimshaw, G. Allen

#47 Morris Mini, J Spiers/J Banks

#48 Sunbeam Alpine Harrington, registration MEL 63, Peter Pilsworth, Gregor Grant, 

#49 Saab, Olle Dahl, ????, DNF accident

#50 Porsche, registration XUG 7, Hugh O'Connor-Rorke, K. Deacon

#51 Sunbeam Alpine, registration 9202 RW, Rosemary Smith, Rosemary Seers

#52 Morris Mini, D R Hiam, D Holland

#53 Ford Anglia, registration 897 ELH, G King/C Sproxton

#54 Morris Mini, registration NYJ 678, John Wadsworth, Mike Wood

#55 Sunbeam Rapier, registration D 63, John La Trobe, Julian Chitty

#56 Vauxhall, registration SD 88, J. McInnes/S. Parker

#57 Fiat 2300, M Hinde/J Barritt

#58 Sunbeam Rapier, registration MH 82, M Harris/P Walton

#59 Ford Anglia, registration OO 1407, E Harrison/J Harrison, 22nd

#60 Morris Mini, J. Partridge, M. Britton

#61 Triumph Vitesse, registration 444 GBF, P Astbury/B Harper

#62 Saab, registration WHL 351, G. Bowes, J. Wheatley

#63 Morris Mini, R. Broad/

#64 Ford Zodiac, registration 5446 EZ, R McElhinney, P Baldam, S Gray

#65 Wolseley, C. Bent-Marshall/R. Britt

#66 Ford Anglia, registration 847 BBU, Reg McBride, Don Barrow

#67 Ford, A. Doble/J. Johnston

#68 Ford Anglia Allardette, registration 977 CGJ, B. Hadfield/G. Haggie, 19th

#69 Morris Mini, registration SD 12, T. Paton, R. Dixon, 18th

#70 Renault R8, registration 6455 MG, B. Brace/S. Turner

#71 Ford Anglia Allardette, Mrs P Haggie/Mrs S Taylor

#72 TVR Grantura Mk2, registration XFV 865, S Pateman, J Spencer 

#73 Sunbeam Alpine Harrington, registration 2 EGG, John Melvin, Graham Gauld

#74 Volkswagen, registration 101 UP, W. Fieldhouse/W. Small

#75 Sunbeam Rapier, registration GSH 500, A. Cowan/B. Coyle

#76 Ford Anglia, registration 616 VND, I. Terry, R. Davies

#77 TVR, George Humble, J Grimshaw, 55th

#78 Reliant Sabre, registration 42 ENX, C. Aston, G. Cooper

#79 Morris Mini Cooper, M. Marsden/R. Thorpe

#80 Triumph Herald, D. Thompson/K. Kaye

#81 DKW, Ken Piper, T. Yoward

#82 MGB, registration GWC 11, R. Richards, G. Davies

#83 Morris Mini Minor, R Parr/T Oldham

#84 Sunbeam Rapier, D Pollard/J Baines, 20th

#85 Triumph TR3, L Jemson/H Beighton

#86 Austin Mini Cooper, N Harvey/D Cardell

#87 Vauxhall, Alec Lobb/B Lockyear

#88 Morris Mini Cooper, R Eaves/P Doand

#89 Austin Mini, registration 4700 RE, T Baker/John Handley

#90 Triumph, L Bertorelli/A Straker

#91 Sunbeam Rapier, A Crusher/D Gamble

#92 Morris Mini, registration 840 SKE, P Collins/H Horton

#93 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 300 HPT, G. Cook, D. Bowes

#94 Mercedes-Benz, F Scott/R Parker

#95 Sunbeam, D Stammers/R Cutler

#96 Ford, W Hayes/S Bate

#97 Triumph, D Day/R Irwin 

#98 Sunbeam, H Cooper/K Pryor

#99 Ford Consul Classic, W Worswick, T Houghton

#100 MGA, registration XAK 140, J Rhodes, K Barraclough 

#101 Ford Anglia, registration DWT 10, N. Thorne, D. Pratt

#102 Morris Mini, Len Gibson, H. Murland, 23rd

#103 Morris, R. Bowers, J. Hedderly 

#104 Sunbeam Rapier, registration VFV 993, Bob Lamb/Tony Mason, 38th

#105 Ford, A McCracken/S McCracken 

#106 Austin Healey, M Day/N Mobsby

#107 Ford, L Keary/L Griffiths

#108 Fiat 1500, D Higson/R Moody/J Harmer 

#109 Triumph TR4, registration OOO 603, Miss P Walker, Miss K Davies

#110 Austin, R A Clark/A Porter

#111 Triumph, B Petch/H Miller

#112 Ford, S Skelly/G Youngson

#113 Sunbeam Rapier, registration 63 TKO, L. Chamberlain/W. Mullen 

#114 Vauxhall VX 4/90, Aggleton/Preston, DNF

#115 Vauxhall VX 4/90, registration 2 FTM, I. Baillie/Davenport

#116 Vauxhall VX 4/90, R Holmes/K Reynolds

#117 Saab, E Masheder/E Peters

#118 Ford Anglia Allardette, Alan Allard/R Mackie

#119 Ford Anglia, R. Cullen/D. Peterson

#120 Volkswagen, M Day/A Gorst

#121 Porsche, P Kerridge/R Barlow

#122 Mercedes-Benz, I Grant/D Haig/S Fisk

#123 Rover 3-Litre, John Cuff/Norman Baguley, 14th

#124 Triumph TR, R Hobro/R Davies

#125 Vauxhall VX 4/90, Warwick Banks/W Barlow

#126 Austin Mini, F Richmond/M Gethin

#127 Ford Anglia Allardette, Sydney Allard/Tom Fisk, 25th

#128 Volkswagen, D Moreton/M Mackie/A Mason

#129 Triumph TR, R Bennett/G Foster

#130 Austin, P Moon/I Cameron

#131 Peugeot, J Barnes/M Ford

#132 Ford, C. Edwards, P. Mays

#133 Sunbeam Rapier, Henry Burke, Mac Daghorn

#134 Volvo 122S, registration O80323, Sylvia Osterberg, Mrs Cecile Pattison, 10th

#135 Peugeot 404, J. Feeney/T. Lawmon

#136 Ford Zephyr, E Jackson/K Joseph

#137 Ford, R Neal/S Neal

#138 Peugeot 404, George Jopp/H Martin

#139 Austin Mini Cooper, B Greaves/T Weaver

#140 Volvo 122S, Lennart Gillmo, R. Jones, 12th

#141 Volvo, J Wallwork/K Armstrong

#142 Morris, R Crawford/W Syer

#143 Volkswagen, registration 5005 CZ, J McSpadden, J Armstrong

#144 Volkswagen, H. Davies/C. Dart

#145 Ford, J. Trigg/L. Taylor/J. Laing

#146 Tornado, B. Sherwood/Osterli

#147 Ford, S. Davey/T. Bosence

#148 Sunbeam, A. Hartwell/F. Scott 

#149 Saab, C. Elswood, D. Chappell

#150 Austin Mini Cooper, Miss D Freeman/Miss Elizabeth Jones 

#151 Sunbeam Rapier, J Cotter/B Ward

#152 Sunbeam Rapier, Ross-Denby/O'Keefe Wilson

#153 Simca, Bloxham/Morris/Harris

#154 Austin Mini Cooper, J. Gay/Paine

#155 Austin Mini Cooper, Folts/Bishop

#156 Saab, Freeman/Smith

#157 Ford Anglia, Gardner/Parker

#158 Wolseley, Burch/Burn

#159 Sunbeam Rapier, Cartwright/Liddle

Reserves

#160 Ford Anglia, Farrar/Moore

#161 Austin Mini Cooper, I.V.I. Miller/Miller

#162 Ford Anglia, Orde/Mason, DNS

#163 Austin Healey 3000, Russell/Miss Scott

#164 Fiat 1500, Henry/Maynard

#165 Volkswagen, Cracknell/Lewin

#166 Hillman, Warner/Healey

#167 Triumph, Willcocks/Smith

#168 Vauxhall VX 4/90, Glennie/Whitmarsh

 

Fragments:

Volvo, registration 65 ELF

Ford, DNS

Ford, DNS

Sunbeam, DNS

Sunbeam, DNS

Volkswagen, DNS

 

Automobile Year, 1962-1963: 158 starters, 102 finishers

Motor Sport: 158 starters


Edited by Rupertlt1, 09 May 2017 - 18:58.


#147 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:48

Car 140 was Lennart Gilmo & R.Jones. 12 overall and best private entry.



#148 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:49

Fred, Can you resolve the conflict raised by Darren Galpin in Post #121?

 

http://forums.autosp...-3#entry7932922

 

RGDS RLT



#149 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:52

Car 140 was Lennart Gilmo & R.Jones. 12 overall and best private entry.

 

Fred, many thanks for everything. Fixed above. RGDS RLT



#150 Rupertlt1

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:01

1962: This Pathé film has a Triumph Spitfire, that looks like it is competing in the rally, right at the end:

 

 

Is this the international debut of the Triumph Spitfire, and if so, who is the crew?

 

RGDS RLT