Jump to content


Photo

RAC Rally History


  • Please log in to reply
230 replies to this topic

#201 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 17,177 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 22 December 2018 - 17:52

True.  The requirements for a rescue vehicle on every stage made multiple stages per day harder to run and also militated against the shorter stages of yore.  Also the Forestry Commission charging formula heavily favours multiple useage of each stage, rather than a succession of different stages.  So we get the two laps of a circuit of three or four stages, rather than a route passing through ten or more different stages.  The Roger Albert Clark Rally has tried to reproduce the old RAC format but they come up against these issues which make it financially unviable



Advertisement

#202 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 22 March 2019 - 09:46

Anyone needing access to the 1966 RAC Rally programme, Mark Forster's excellent Mk1 performance conversions website can oblige.

 

http://mk1-performan...k/pdf/rac66.pdf

 

Stephen



#203 Rupertlt1

Rupertlt1
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 27 April 2019 - 21:23

R.A.C. Rally, 1970

198 starters, 67 finishers

1. #14 Harry Källström/Gunnar Häggbom (Lancia Fulvia HF 1600)

2. #20 Ove Eriksson/H. Johansson (Opel Kadett R 1987)

3. #40 L. Nasenius/B. Cederberg (Opel Kadett R 1987)

4. #34 Jan Henriksson/L.-E. Carlström (Opel Kadett R 1987)

5. #35 A. Cowan/H. Cardno (Alpine Renault 1596)

6. #30 Gerard Larrouse/Mike Wood (Porsche 911S 2195)

7. #18 R. Aaltonen/P. Easter (Datsun 240-Z 2393)

8. #41 Brian Culcheth/Johnstone Syer (Ford Escort TC 1598) 

9. #42 Lasse Jonsson/Alf Qvist (Saab 96 V4 1531)

10. #95 K.-J. Kleint/H. Roehr (Ford Capri 2274)

11. #43 Will Sparrow/Nigel Raeburn (Austin Cooper S 1293)

12. #37 C. Haldi/J. Gretener (VW-Porsche 914/6 1991) 

13. #56 Jack Tordoff/Brian Marchant (Saab 96 V4 1498)

14. #48 P. Cooper/M. Bennett (Austin Cooper S 1293)

15. #67 T. Fowkes/P. O'Gorman (Ford Escort TC 1598)

16. #59 N. Rockey/R. Channon (Ford Escort TC 1594)

17. #81 C. Beynon/L. Andrews (Ford Escort TC 1598)

18. #88 P. Appleby/D. Shields (Ford Escort TC 1558)

19. #11 P. Warren/M. Cotton (Ford Escort RS 1601)

20. #10 L. Bertorelli/P. Hilliard (Alfa Romeo Berlina 1779)

21. #107 Peter Wareing/Bryan Harris (Ford Escort GT 1298)

22. #94 K. Millburn/R. Allen (BMW 2002 1990)

23. #188 Paul Faulkner/Michael Peters (Ford Escort GT 1297)

24. #155 John Cockerill/Michael Cockerill (Hillman Hunter 1725)

25. #202 Roger Platt/Christopher Strachan (Ford Escort GT 1298)

26. #79 Andrew Hedges/Jeremy Rugge-Price (BMW 2002 TI 1990)

27. #77 John Hemsley/Richard Skinner (Austin Maxi 1485)

28. #93 Mike Hardiment/Rodney Palmer (Cooper S 1293)

29. #127 Maxwell Whetton/Michael Davis (Ford Escort GT 1298)

30. #131 John Penniston/Melvyn Long (Cooper 998)

31. #73 John Church/Tony Johnstone (Opel Kadett R 1897) XNJ 999J

32. #76 Günter Gries/Harald Würfel (Wartburg 353 992)

33. #108 George Beever/Tony Mason (Ford Escort TC 1598)

34. #78 Egon Culmbacher/Gunther Strehlow (Wartburg 353 992)

35. #74 Peter Hommel/Bernard Malsch (Wartburg 353 992)

36. #3 Liz Crellin/Pat Wright (Cooper S 1275)

37. #133 Ian Grant/John Hughes (Ford Escort RS 1601)

38. #134 David Barker/Michael Charity (Ford Cortina Lotus 1598)

39. #104 Henry Mackie/Jerry Brown (Austin 1800 1844)

40. #152 Edward Edgerton/Keith Leckie (Hillman GT 1725)

41. #126 Ron Shipp/Dennis Pelling (Cooper S 1275)

42. #177 Alan Jones/Alan Christopher (Ford Cortina 1500)

43. #141 Frederick Henderson/David Henderson (Cooper S 1275)

 

Manufacturer's Team Prize:

1. Opel Sweden (2nd, 3rd and 4th overall).

2. Wartburg 353 (32nd, 34th and 35th overall)

#76 Günter Gries/Harald Würfel; #78 Egon Culmbacher/Gunther Strehlow; #74 Peter Hommel/Bernard Malsch

 

Ladies' award: #3 Liz Crellin/Pat Wright (Cooper S 1275) 36th overall, NOB 400F

 

Motoring News, Thursday, November 26, 1970 etc  

 

RGDS RLT   


Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 May 2019 - 10:56.


#204 faye

faye
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: September 19

Posted 25 September 2019 - 04:27

hi i'm looking for a copy of the RAC rally 1963 nov 12th-16th program i have seen your list and my granddad is on there C H Farrar.i would love to have a copy with if name in or a print able copy i,m try to get it for a gift to my dad i have his RAC badge from 1963 a photo and a model ford anglia. a copy of this would be perfect. has a family member as thrown all away.

 

many thanks for help

faye



#205 faye

faye
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: September 19

Posted 25 September 2019 - 04:30

Anyone needing access to the 1966 RAC Rally programme, Mark Forster's excellent Mk1 performance conversions website can oblige.

 

http://mk1-performan...k/pdf/rac66.pdf

 

Stephen

do you have a pdf for the 1963 i have seen your list my granddad is C H Farrar 

faye



#206 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 September 2019 - 06:16

Faye, not sure where a pdf of the 1963 RAC programme can be found. Original programmes appear on ebay from time to time. But I guess you need it fairly urgent. You might get lucky by contacting Pooks Motor Books in the UK. Or similar dealers.

 

Otherwise the best I can offer is to try to photograph some relevant pages for you. But this will require you sending me a private message with an email address for them to be forwarded to you.

 

Stephen



#207 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 26 September 2019 - 04:28

Faye now has the requested info from the 1963 RAC Rally programme.

 

For the sake of those that research or hold records for this event, Faye's grandfather ran Car #130 C H Farrar (grandfather) / B O Moore Ford Anglia in 1963. Faye mentions they are Charles Herbert Farrar and Brian Moore. I can only assume the Anglia photo forwarded to me, although not the RAC is the same car used in 63.

 

Farrar-rally-Anglia.jpg

 

Stephen



#208 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,349 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 September 2019 - 07:25

No. it won't be the same car - that one carries a C-suffix registration, which indicates it was first registered in 1965; the second and third letters of the registration - EE - indicate that it was registered in Grimsby. Those 'Angleboxes' continued in production until 1967 - replaced by the Mk1 Escort.



#209 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 26 September 2019 - 09:23

Thanks Richard, I admit to knowing very little on the workings of the British Rego system.

 

Stephen



#210 faye

faye
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: September 19

Posted 26 September 2019 - 13:05

Thank you would it be this plate for 1963 781 glt I know he raced two cars and thank you for your help

Faye

Edited by faye, 26 September 2019 - 13:23.


#211 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,349 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 September 2019 - 14:12

781GLT would be a plate issued in London in the late 1950s or early 1960s. I think there's a listing somewhere - although not available online - which can tie any particular pre-1964 plate down to within a few months. Suffixes were introduced in only a few areas in 1963. 1964 cars were all B-reg, 1965 C-reg and 1966 D-reg, but from then on the system was changed. E-reg was January-July 1967 and from F onwards the letters ran over two years from August to the following July.

 

Thanks Richard, I admit to knowing very little on the workings of the British Rego system.

 

Stephen

Best explanation I know of is here in this comprehensive PDF from the Chiltern Vehicle Preservation Group, which is correct up to 2003:

 

http://www.cvpg.co.uk/REG.pdf



#212 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 26 September 2019 - 21:29

Thanks to Richard's observations, Faye has found and forwarded these 2 photos of the correct Anglia during the 1963 RAC

 

Farrar-rally-Anglia-1963-b.jpg

 

Farrar-rally-Anglia-1963-a.jpg

 

Stephen



#213 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,349 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 September 2019 - 21:53

RAC and AA badges on the grille - 'belt and braces' in case of a breakdown! I presume that's a sump guard mounted where the front number plate would normally be. The number plate on the car is technically illegal and should have been displayed vertically - IIRC that's an MoT Test fail if presented in that form, although there's no rule that says you can't have two front plates, so fitting it temporarily for the test would work.



#214 RCH

RCH
  • Member

  • 931 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:20

If we are going to be legally pedantic I suspect those spotlights are marginally too low, unless used in conditions of fog or falling snow. I remember seeing scrutineers carefully measuring spotlamp heights in the late '60's early '70's. Then seeing cars with lamps partially blanked out with tank tape, presumably torn off once the event got under way! The "Helphos" lamp mounted just above the dash could only legally be used when stationary.

 

Is that a Humber Sceptre next door?



#215 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,349 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:33

 

Is that a Humber Sceptre next door?

Looks like a Jaguar Mk2 to me!



#216 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 17,177 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:39

The number plate on the car is technically illegal and should have been displayed vertically - IIRC that's an MoT Test fail if presented in that form, although there's no rule that says you can't have two front plates, so fitting it temporarily for the test would work.

When did MoT tests start?  In any case, they were pretty casual about such things in the 1960s iirc.  Although they say if you remember the 60s, you weren't there! 

If we are going to be legally pedantic I suspect those spotlights are marginally too low, unless used in conditions of fog or falling snow. I remember seeing scrutineers carefully measuring spotlamp heights in the late '60's early '70's. 

I remember from my road rallying days being stopped by a cocky young copper in the lanes of Northamptonshire who announced, waving a measuring stick, "Now I am going to show you that your spotlights are illegal". He measured and retreated, somewhat less cocky, muttering "Well, they are nearly illegal".



#217 Geoff E

Geoff E
  • Member

  • 1,376 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 27 September 2019 - 09:48

By 1963, the MOT was a "seven year test", so the Anglia wouldn't have been eligible for the test.



#218 RCH

RCH
  • Member

  • 931 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 27 September 2019 - 13:48

I remember from my road rallying days being stopped by a cocky young copper in the lanes of Northamptonshire who announced, waving a measuring stick, "Now I am going to show you that your spotlights are illegal". He measured and retreated, somewhat less cocky, muttering "Well, they are nearly illegal".

 

Similar thing, was stopped by probably the youngest copper in Hertfordshire who must have spent twenty minutes desperately walking round the car trying to find something illegal... :confused:



#219 John Ginger

John Ginger
  • Member

  • 164 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 27 September 2019 - 15:42

Looks like a Jaguar Mk2 to me!


I’m going with a Rootes Group product

Edited by John Ginger, 27 September 2019 - 15:45.


Advertisement

#220 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Administrator

  • 34,349 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 27 September 2019 - 15:50

By 1963, the MOT was a "seven year test", so the Anglia wouldn't have been eligible for the test.

The way a lot of Dagenham dustbins used to succumb to the tinworm it might not have lasted long enough to take one!



#221 Charlieman

Charlieman
  • Member

  • 1,755 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 27 September 2019 - 16:34

I presume that's a sump guard mounted where the front number plate would normally be. The number plate on the car is technically illegal and should have been displayed vertically - IIRC that's an MoT Test fail if presented in that form, although there's no rule that says you can't have two front plates, so fitting it temporarily for the test would work.

The only known way to make a road car Anglia look sexy is to put a plastic registration plate on the nose.

 

I'm guessing that laws about UK car registration plates started in 1903 -- and that pub bores have been reciting the laws ever since. MoT law is more complicated -- and that pub bores were even less accurate and more tedious. 

 

In the 1960s, the MoT was about safety and worthiness: do your lights and brakes work? So a slapped on plastic reg plate was a pass for the MoT man, because the registration plate was somebody elses' business.



#222 mikeC

mikeC
  • Member

  • 672 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 September 2019 - 17:32

I;m a bit late to the party, but let me add a few comments to confirm what has already been said! 

 

I don't have any information on the GLT registration letters, but ELT was current in mid 1962; ELT would have been followed by FLT and then GLT, so that will probably be an early/mid 1963 registration date.

 

I would agree with the identification of the red car as a Humbre Sceptre.

 

UK registration numbers did not need to be displayed vertically, but they did need to be displayed on a flat surface; the Anglia would have passed most inspections, just as E-Type Jaguars did, although if Mr Plod was throwing the book at you, he could well have added that to the list!

 

Those auxiliary lamps look fine to me; the regulation required any lamp whose centre was less than 18" from the ground could only be used in fog or falling snow; those look to be the best part of 24" above ground.



#223 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,242 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 13 November 2019 - 22:49

I have a question about the 1963 RAC Rally, specifically about Raymond Baxter. One source (Motor Sport) has him retiring the #18 Reliant Sabre Six (reg 650 GUE), but a new book has a picture claiming #20 Rover P5 was driven by Baxter. The first source says that #20 was the Peter Riley Ford Cortina GT which finished 15th. Does anyone have any results/pictures proving either way? The book has Baxter leading Mabbs at Oulton Park, but Mabbs was driving #1, and the car behind Baxter looks more like #2. I'm suspecting the book picture is another event entirely.



#224 Rupertlt1

Rupertlt1
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 13 November 2019 - 23:51

I have #20 Baxter/Macmillan (Rover 3-litre) in 1962.

 

#18 R F Baxter E McMillan, Reliant Sabre, in 1963.

 

RAC Rally 

November 1963 

Pos # Crew Car Cls Pts Car reg 

1 29 Tom Trana/Sune Lundstrom Volvo PV544 4 246, ?48909 

2 52 Harry Kallstrom/Gunnar Haggbom Volkswagen 1500S 3 293, B40058 

3 4 Erik Carlsson/Gunnar Palm Saab 96 1 293, P18385 

4 21 Paddy Hopkirk/Henry Liddon Mini-Cooper S 3 306, 8 EMO 

5 28 Timo Makinen/J.M.Wood Austin Healey 3000 7 311 

6 27 Henry Taylor/Brian Melia Ford Cortina Lotus 3 347, 786 BOO 

7 7 Pat Moss/Miss Jenny Nadin Ford Cortina GT 6 356, RWC 202 

8 9 Gunnar Andersson/Douglas Johns Volvo 544 4 358 

9 5 Don Morley/Erle Morley Austin Healey 3000 7 363 

10 47 Carl Orrenius/Rolf Dohlgren Mini-Cooper S 3 376 

11 45 Olle Dahl/R.Irwin Saab 1 388 (SS35/Rolled) 

12 142 A.Andersson/P.G.Axdal Saab 5 390 

13 6 Bengt G.Jansson/E.Patterson Volkswagen 1500S 3 396, B41299 

14 143 B.Larsson/J.Larsson Volkswagen 1500 3 397 

15 20 Peter Riley/Tony Nash Ford Cortina GT 6 411 

16 32 Anne Hall/Pat Spencer Ford Cortina 3 423 

17 8 Bengt Soderstrom/R.Roysson Volkswagen 1500S 3 442 

18 33 Jean-Jacques Thuner/John Gretener Triumph TR4 6 472, 5 VC 

19 54 David Pollard/Tony Baines Sunbeam Rapier 3 522 

20 36 Logan Morrison/Ross Finlay Mini-Cooper S 2 530, 407 ARX 

21 39 Terry Hunter/John King Mini-Cooper 2 543, 997 FN 

22 86 Andrew Cowan/B.C.Coyle Sunbeam Rapier 3 564 

23 44 Bill Bengry/Barry Hughes Rover 3-litre 4 564 

24 46 John Cuff/Norman Baguley Ford Cortina 3 578 

25 68 Tony Cox/John Davenport Rover 3 litre 4 596 

26 67 Alan Allard/Tom Fisk Ford Allardette 6 599 

27 40 Ken James/Mike Hughes Rover 3 litre 4 601 

28 105 N.Harvey/D.Cardell Austin Cooper S 3 621 

29 72 M.Hinde/J.Barritt Simca 2 625 

30 38 Pauline Mayman/Val Domleo Mini-Cooper S 3 632, 277 EBL

 

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 14 November 2019 - 00:17.


#225 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,242 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 14 November 2019 - 09:01

Thanks. I'd missed that 1962 entry when searching late last night! Book miscaptioned then.



#226 john winfield

john winfield
  • Member

  • 3,161 posts
  • Joined: July 02

Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:34

It may just be me but I can sometimes muddle RAC years, particularly when using Motor Sport as a reference. So many of the rallies are covered by that magazine in the January issue of the following year that, mentally, I start labelling a particular event one year out.  I'm not sure which book Darren refers to but this 'end of calendar year' issue might lead to the occasional mistake.



#227 MCS

MCS
  • Member

  • 4,165 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 14 November 2019 - 17:07

Darren,

 

Which book are you referring to - as per John's post?

 

Thanks,

Mark



#228 Darren Galpin

Darren Galpin
  • Member

  • 2,242 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 14 November 2019 - 22:25

"The Great British Rally - RAC to Rally GB" by Graham Robson and Martin Holmes, which has just been published. I'm doing a book review, and cross-referencing it with the results on my website.



#229 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 17,177 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 15 November 2019 - 18:43

By chance, I was just leafing through that book in the library this afternoon.  It looks a good crack at recording the history of the event and has two extremely knowledgeable authors.  I have enough material on this already, but for anyone wanting to get a good insight into a very long established event like the RAC/Rally GB, this would be a great asset.  And it has come out just in time for Christmas!  No coincidence...



#230 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:02

Sixty years ago the 1959 8th RAC International Rally of Great Britain was happening (16-21 November 1959).

 

Seven Minis were entered - 3 works entries from BMC and 4 private, plus Edward Eves ran his Mini to cover the event for Sporting Motorist.

 

Here Pete Flanagan has posted to his facebook page some of the Minis that competed in 1959.

https://www.facebook...?type=3

 

The one with car #113 TMO 840 is the Clarke/Edwards entry passing Edward Eves parked Mini, 965 GFC. (one of around 80 cars BMC 'gave'the press use of for 12 months)  Keen eyes will note the TMO 840 registration because it became John Whitmore's 1961 British Saloon Car Championship-winning Mini 850. Which also means some Hollywood Great Escapee raced it too.

 

Stephen



#231 Rupertlt1

Rupertlt1
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 24 November 2019 - 17:07

Lyndon Sims - Book "SO MANY" No author, see Pages 214-217

 

https://www.iwm.org....ject/1500030143

 

Quote:

In 1952 he owned a 2½ Riley, and applied to take part in the Monte Carlo

car rally. He was disgruntled when the RAC (Royal Automobile Club) returned his

application with the suggestion that he should get a little experience in national

events first. So he did. He won his first rally outright, was permitted to enter the

1953 'Monte' and finished 4th! He competed in six RAC rallies, winning it out-

right in 1956 in an Aston Martin DB.2. In three Tulip Rallies he gained two class

wins and a 2nd. In the 1962 'Monte' in a DB.4 he won the Coupe de la Ville de

Monaco for the fastest lap of the Grand Prix course, setting a new record for GT

cars. In November 1994 he presented many of the prizes at the 50th RAC Rally.

"Aston Martin lent me a new DB7 for a few days, to attend the celebrations in

style. I could only get 150 mph out of it, but that was into a strong headwind."

 

Monte Carlo Rally

1953: #206 Sims/Rudd, Riley 2.5, registration AEU 921, 57th O/A, (Who is Rudd?)

1954: #216 Sims/A.P.O. Rogers, Riley 2.5, (not Pathfinder), registration AEU 921, 20th O/A (Who is Rogers?*)

1955: #116 Lyndon O. Sims/R.E. Stokes, Riley 2.5 litres RMB, registration AEU 921, 41st O/A

1956: #166 Riley Pathfinder, KRX 820, crew Lyndon Sims, Ralph Stokes, 65th O/A

1959: #70 Aston Martin DB2-4, registration 56 DMF, Lyndon Sims/John Ambrose

1962: #36 Aston Martin DB4 GT, registration 4 SMY, Sims/Stephens

 

This article states that AEU 921 was owned by A.P.O. Rogers: https://www.mg-cars....sport290154.pdf

 

I can't find Sims finishing 4th on the Monte - could it be 4th in class?

 

What rally did he win, that allegedly convinced the R.A.C. that he was suitable for the Monte?

 

*A.P.O. 'Bert' Rogers (Riley saloon) finished third in the opening handicap event at Goodwood, Monday 3 April 1953.

See: https://library.revs...le=Rogers, Bert

Rogers died at Goodwood, Easter Bank Holiday Monday, 1956:

"A. P. O. Rogers was killed when his new six-litre Sun-Pat special overturned at Lavant Corner—the spot where he overturned at a meeting last year. Then, he was unhurt."

 

Crew on 1956 R.A.C. Rally: previewed as F.I.J. Girling?

Aston Martin, NGO 651

 

Sims on 1959 R.A.C. Rally in an Aston Martin.

 

RGDS RLT


Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 November 2019 - 17:27.