I think we all know this Monumental series made by Bill Mason for SHELL in the very early sixties..
I think it is a real pity that the series is still very expensive at 3 times 24.95 pounds..
I had some bad video copies years ago..
but really love to have the complete series on a DVD...
Perhaps Shell can release it for us, amateur of prof racing historians..
and other intrested clients...
Somewhere in the Shell shop???
I have used Shell in my cars for 25 years now..
may be someone from the Shell world...
reads this...
Paul
A History of Motor Racing- Shell
Started by
paulhooft
, Dec 01 2002 19:38
16 replies to this topic
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#2
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 01 December 2002 - 19:49
Shell films from the early races, 70-100 years ago. I would spend money on that, if they come in DVD. 
#3
paulhooft
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Posted 01 December 2002 - 19:53
Yes Hans..
And make another visit to the local Shell station...
Paul
And make another visit to the local Shell station...
Paul
#4
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 01 December 2002 - 20:15
I am an old Shell customer, still visiting my station.
#5
Ron Scoma
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 06:54
Well.........
I have those films available on video, in the NTSC countries, and am in the process of converting all the movies that I have rights to sell onto DVD.
The problem is just cost. To be able to sell a movie at some kind of reasonable cost you need to press about 1000 copies on DVD, added to that there is the mastering with chapters, shipping from the Orient, printing of the labels, payment of royalties, advertising, time, and profit for my labour and return on my upfront costs. The usual distributor discount applies with places like Borders and Barnes and Noble taking even more. With the tapes it was more a labour of love.
I wish I could sell a thousand copies at $30 each. It would come close to covering costs. And if I only sell a hundred I'd have an inventory of 900 of the same disc that will probably never wear out. Not exactly my goal in life.
And we wont even talk about people who "just make a copy for their friends." I do understand that reasoning of course but I feel that some people don't realize the sizable investment, in time and money, required to make some of this old stuff available to the enthusiast, and the disincentive that copying does to the small guy trying to make the films available and make a few dollars here and there. No one who does this old film stuff is getting rich, I have spent many tens of thousands of dollars out of my own pocket just preserving the stuff so it doesn't deteriorate further. That money could have gone to my children, my cars, my various ex wife's, etc. Many of the films were held together with everything from chewing gum to staples and were dirty beyond words. If anyone has seen a GOOD restored copy of the "History of Motor Racing," or "Fangio" by Hugh Hudson you would know what quality really is in this old stuff. Not to mention the film I rescued out the former Soviet Union on Auto Unions in 1987. Superior quality, but a VERY limited market in spite of such bankable stars Hans Stuck and Ellie Beinhorn.
It's not just a simple matter of putting the old 16 mm positive print that one finds on eBay onto tape or disc and selling them. Do it that way and you'll get quality that is just not worth having.
What really sells, unfortunately IMHO, is the "crash" movies. But that's a different thing all together
Thanks for listening
Ron Scoma
I have those films available on video, in the NTSC countries, and am in the process of converting all the movies that I have rights to sell onto DVD.
The problem is just cost. To be able to sell a movie at some kind of reasonable cost you need to press about 1000 copies on DVD, added to that there is the mastering with chapters, shipping from the Orient, printing of the labels, payment of royalties, advertising, time, and profit for my labour and return on my upfront costs. The usual distributor discount applies with places like Borders and Barnes and Noble taking even more. With the tapes it was more a labour of love.
I wish I could sell a thousand copies at $30 each. It would come close to covering costs. And if I only sell a hundred I'd have an inventory of 900 of the same disc that will probably never wear out. Not exactly my goal in life.
And we wont even talk about people who "just make a copy for their friends." I do understand that reasoning of course but I feel that some people don't realize the sizable investment, in time and money, required to make some of this old stuff available to the enthusiast, and the disincentive that copying does to the small guy trying to make the films available and make a few dollars here and there. No one who does this old film stuff is getting rich, I have spent many tens of thousands of dollars out of my own pocket just preserving the stuff so it doesn't deteriorate further. That money could have gone to my children, my cars, my various ex wife's, etc. Many of the films were held together with everything from chewing gum to staples and were dirty beyond words. If anyone has seen a GOOD restored copy of the "History of Motor Racing," or "Fangio" by Hugh Hudson you would know what quality really is in this old stuff. Not to mention the film I rescued out the former Soviet Union on Auto Unions in 1987. Superior quality, but a VERY limited market in spite of such bankable stars Hans Stuck and Ellie Beinhorn.
It's not just a simple matter of putting the old 16 mm positive print that one finds on eBay onto tape or disc and selling them. Do it that way and you'll get quality that is just not worth having.
What really sells, unfortunately IMHO, is the "crash" movies. But that's a different thing all together
Thanks for listening
Ron Scoma
#6
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 09:04
Ron - I am very much interested in the old original Shell films from 1914 or even before. I would take a NTSC vidio tape but I don't know how long these tapes last and for that reason I would prefer a DVD, which I heard has a much longer life. If DVD's cannot be produced within the next twelve months, I would like to purchase NTSC vidio tape instead. Can you please help me with a contact address, in case I want to place an order?Originally posted by Ron Scoma
Well.....I have those films available on video, in the NTSC countries, and am in the process of converting all the movies that I have rights to sell onto DVD.....
#7
McSlick
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 16:54
Ron what i dont understand about your story off how expensive everything [royalties etc] is
Why do people want royalties for stuff they probably never going to use .
If i understand you correctly they let it rot away in some archief
If i was Shell or someone else i would say first sell your dvds then we are going to talk about money.
Max
Why do people want royalties for stuff they probably never going to use .
If i understand you correctly they let it rot away in some archief
If i was Shell or someone else i would say first sell your dvds then we are going to talk about money.
Max
#8
paulhooft
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 18:28
In my opinion ther will come a time..
very soon, that will be...
when
Making a DVD will be much, much cheaper than making a Video tape..
thinking of the cost of matter...
it is next to nothing...
and I don't think I am mistaken...
Paul Hooft
very soon, that will be...
when
Making a DVD will be much, much cheaper than making a Video tape..
thinking of the cost of matter...
it is next to nothing...
and I don't think I am mistaken...
Paul Hooft
#9
Bladrian
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 18:37
Ron Scoma - I think it's wonderful that there is still someone like you, preserving those glorious artifacts. It can, indeed, only be a labour of love.
If you ever do get the chance to manufacture those DVD's, please put my name down for a half-dozen.
If you ever do get the chance to manufacture those DVD's, please put my name down for a half-dozen.
#10
Ron Scoma
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- 247 posts
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 19:21
@ Max
<
If they don't enforce their rights, to their name or property, they can legally lose it.
Escalator and Elevator come to mind. When one thinks of Kleenex one thinks of a facial tissue. "Kleenex" is an item specifically owned by Kimberly-Clark. If they don't pursue the people who would use their name then it would become generic.
There are a LOT of films rotting away because it's just not a priority for some companies. If you are Big Oil Company the amount of money that they would receive from royalties wouldn't even begin to cover their expense in administering the program. Not to mention the downside. If the quality were poor who do you think would get the bad publicity, the company doing the duplication or the company with their name on the series? Also, with so many company mergers some films are just tossed in the corner.
@ Paul
<
We're there now, but it all depends on quantify. Star War cost about 25 cents a copy to run off I bet, before points (royalties), but they are pressing about 20 million I would guess. And they will sell most of them.
To make "my" films even remotely competitive financially I need to press a minimum of 1000 copies. Drop the quantities to 500 and my cost increases 5 fold. Does anyone think that I can sell 1000 copies of the 1954 Mexican Road Race.... or 500 even?
For what it come down to is for larger quantities DVDs are cheaper, for smaller ones video is less expensive.
No different from cars, build one and it's less expensive to do it by hand. Build 10 million and it's cheaper to set up a factory.
Same with the printing of books, look at "The Grand Prix Cars" by Pomeroy, do you think they could sell 5000 copies, of the original version, today to make it viable to reprint?
Cheers,
Ron
<
If they don't enforce their rights, to their name or property, they can legally lose it.
Escalator and Elevator come to mind. When one thinks of Kleenex one thinks of a facial tissue. "Kleenex" is an item specifically owned by Kimberly-Clark. If they don't pursue the people who would use their name then it would become generic.
There are a LOT of films rotting away because it's just not a priority for some companies. If you are Big Oil Company the amount of money that they would receive from royalties wouldn't even begin to cover their expense in administering the program. Not to mention the downside. If the quality were poor who do you think would get the bad publicity, the company doing the duplication or the company with their name on the series? Also, with so many company mergers some films are just tossed in the corner.
@ Paul
<
We're there now, but it all depends on quantify. Star War cost about 25 cents a copy to run off I bet, before points (royalties), but they are pressing about 20 million I would guess. And they will sell most of them.
To make "my" films even remotely competitive financially I need to press a minimum of 1000 copies. Drop the quantities to 500 and my cost increases 5 fold. Does anyone think that I can sell 1000 copies of the 1954 Mexican Road Race.... or 500 even?
For what it come down to is for larger quantities DVDs are cheaper, for smaller ones video is less expensive.
No different from cars, build one and it's less expensive to do it by hand. Build 10 million and it's cheaper to set up a factory.
Same with the printing of books, look at "The Grand Prix Cars" by Pomeroy, do you think they could sell 5000 copies, of the original version, today to make it viable to reprint?
Cheers,
Ron
#11
paulhooft
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Posted 02 December 2002 - 19:45
Yes..
I understand...
but the only thing I wanted to say,
or write perhaps...
Is that the matter costs of CD's are,
or will become in the next future,
less to nothing,
just look at the price of empty CD-roms now
I agree with you about the rights issue
and the numbers fact
and if:
is thousands of people were intrested..
it would be much easier
Paul
Sorry about making some style errors,
I am Dutch...
I understand...
but the only thing I wanted to say,
or write perhaps...
Is that the matter costs of CD's are,
or will become in the next future,
less to nothing,
just look at the price of empty CD-roms now
I agree with you about the rights issue
and the numbers fact
and if:
is thousands of people were intrested..
it would be much easier
Paul
Sorry about making some style errors,
I am Dutch...
#12
Ron Scoma
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- 247 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 02 December 2002 - 20:03
Paul:
I'm sorry if the tone of my letter came off as offensive. It is the LAST thing I wanted to happen.
I just wanted to explain the position from a small producer/distributor. And I do agree with you 100%.
But about being Dutch....
a few years ago your ancestors gave us Harlem, in New York. I was wondering if you, perhaps, might want it back... It's a bit more run down than when you last saw it, but it's still restorable, best viewed in daylight.
Kind Regards,
Ron
I'm sorry if the tone of my letter came off as offensive. It is the LAST thing I wanted to happen.
I just wanted to explain the position from a small producer/distributor. And I do agree with you 100%.
But about being Dutch....
a few years ago your ancestors gave us Harlem, in New York. I was wondering if you, perhaps, might want it back... It's a bit more run down than when you last saw it, but it's still restorable, best viewed in daylight.
Kind Regards,
Ron
#13
Milan Fistonic
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- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 02 December 2002 - 20:30
When I bought my Shell History of Motor Sport it was a two video set.
Volume one had three parts:
The Heroic Days, 1901-1914
The Golden Age, 1919-1929
The Titans, 1930-1934
Volume two also had three parts:
The Titans, 1935-1939
Racing Reborn, 1940-1948
The Champions, 1949-1951
Now I see it advertised as a three video set.
Is there anything extra on the latest version or have they just split the old one into three to make more money?
Volume one had three parts:
The Heroic Days, 1901-1914
The Golden Age, 1919-1929
The Titans, 1930-1934
Volume two also had three parts:
The Titans, 1935-1939
Racing Reborn, 1940-1948
The Champions, 1949-1951
Now I see it advertised as a three video set.
Is there anything extra on the latest version or have they just split the old one into three to make more money?
#14
paulhooft
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- 873 posts
- Joined: January 01
Member
Posted 02 December 2002 - 20:38
Dear Ron,
I visited Harlem..
And I
don't want it back
about the other thing...
It is my hobby, and I spend a lot of money on it
and I enjoy it..
the thing about hobbies is
I really enjoy:
Not placing a big price tag on everything...
and even if some people,
I know,
make a living of it
Lucky ones...
For me it is a hobby, not real life...
otherwise..
It will end up somewhere..
like modern formula one..
that's no fun for me
Paul
I visited Harlem..
And I
don't want it back
about the other thing...
It is my hobby, and I spend a lot of money on it
and I enjoy it..
the thing about hobbies is
I really enjoy:
Not placing a big price tag on everything...
and even if some people,
I know,
make a living of it
Lucky ones...
For me it is a hobby, not real life...
otherwise..
It will end up somewhere..
like modern formula one..
that's no fun for me
Paul
#15
Rob29
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- 3,582 posts
- Joined: January 01
Member
Posted 03 December 2002 - 09:41
I bought it about 20 years ago. 3 casettes-vol 1 & 2 + 3 & 4 are in a plain yellow sleve'supplied by Shell International Petroleum Company Limited'Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
When I bought my Shell History of Motor Sport it was a two video set.
Volume one had three parts:
The Heroic Days, 1901-1914
The Golden Age, 1919-1929
The Titans, 1930-1934
Volume two also had three parts:
The Titans, 1935-1939
Racing Reborn, 1940-1948
The Champions, 1949-1951
Now I see it advertised as a three video set.
Is there anything extra on the latest version or have they just split the old one into three to make more money?
Vols 5 & 6 published some time later by Duke Marketing-with color sleve with 1950 GP Ferrari on cover.
#16
Ray Bell
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- Joined: December 99
Member
Posted 03 December 2002 - 10:20
Fangio in a 250F certainly featured somewhere along the way... so the series goes on until at least 1957.
#17
MichaelJP
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- 865 posts
- Joined: June 01
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Posted 03 December 2002 - 10:32
I think it will benefit all of us when these sort of rare films can be made available in digital form for download.
It would have the advantage that the producer does not have to try and anticipate the demand, once he has done the initial work of preparing the movie (this would be the same as DVD) the marginal cost of each extra copy supplied is zero. After costs are covered, the profit per copy is near-100%.
I think eventually this will be the most common method of distribution for very low print-run specialist media.
- MichaelJP
It would have the advantage that the producer does not have to try and anticipate the demand, once he has done the initial work of preparing the movie (this would be the same as DVD) the marginal cost of each extra copy supplied is zero. After costs are covered, the profit per copy is near-100%.
I think eventually this will be the most common method of distribution for very low print-run specialist media.
- MichaelJP
