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BMW 328 Roadster mystery, Nino Rovelli & Ernst Loof


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#1 uechtel

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 22:37

Help needed again to sort this one out! Perhaps a good occasion for the Italian experts among us to shine...

Continuing the BMW 328 at the Mille Miglia thread I had some e-mail correspondence with Michael Müller, during which we stumbled over this picture:

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It is from Reinald Schumann´s book "Motorsport in Deutschland 1945-55" and shows - according to the text - one of three BMW 328 Roadsters built by Touring (Milano) AFTER the 1940 Mille Miglia, ordered by our friend Hühnlein, who expected motor racing soon to live up again, as the war seemed as good as over for him at that time...

What confused us was the number "71" painted on it. The car is certainly not the Wenscher / Scholz - car of the 1940 Mille Miglia, but indeed a completely different model, and after that (as far as we know) there were no occasions any more until the end of the war, in which the car could have been entered.

We were even more surprised when recently we discovered this one:

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Obviously the same photo - but no numbers on the car any more! Very mysterious indeed!

So what reason could there be for somebody to fake that picture?


And having started sepculations we brought up three more pictures of cars, of which we wonder whether they are connected to the 328 NSKK/Touring-Roadsters or not.

The first one is from Rosellen´s book "Veritas Story" and the author tells us, that it shows company-founder Ernst Loof himself, driving a Mille Miglia-inspired BMW 328 in some obscure event in an US military camp in Germany in 1946:

Posted Image

Looking at the car it becomes clear, that certainly the later Veritas RS streamliners were more than inspired by this car, but the question here is, whether it is one of the Touring / NSKK Roadsters indeed or Loof´s own creation?

The two other pictures are from Italy and show the start of the Piacenza race in 1947:

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On outside of the front row we can see Nino Rovelli in a car, which appears simply as a BMW 328 in the entry list, but which has in our opinions quite some similarity to the NSKK Roadsters. Again - just like at the Loof car - only with a different windscreen and the air inlet at the front.

So perhaps that Rovelli car could be a helpful trace. Was it connected to the NSKK Roadster and if so, how? Could it be possible, that one or more of the cars were not delivered to Germany but remained in Italy instead? What is known about Rovelli´s car, its origin and its fate? It seems, that it did not appear after 1947 any more.

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#2 Vincenzo Lancia

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Posted 01 December 2002 - 23:13

I don't know and therefore should'nt reply......but it seems to me that the most probable person(s) to make the fake was the original photographer. That person might have had second thoughts about making a picture of a new/future car with a number that has already been raced.
Apart from that its a rather goodlooking fake, not like the stalin/russia pictures where there are too many feets under the table. On the other hand you could say that both pictures have a retouchy look......

#3 Holger Merten

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 11:10

Uechtel, Michael

interesting material, I'm not specialist, and like vincenzo should't reply, but like to speculate to the situation of 1940.

Why Hühnleid let built the cars by Touring and not in Germany?

If I'm right the MM 1940 took part on the 28 april, at that time italy wasn't involved in the WWII and had capacities to built those cars for "German races in Italy".

I think the german coach builders had no capacities and no material, but as I wrote this is just speculation on the time and the special situation of Germany in the war, Italy not in the war and Hühnleins ideas.

#4 alessandro silva

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 11:32

I think I can tell you something about Rovelli's car tonight when I'll go home.

#5 Holger Merten

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 11:53

Touring built also a 328 Coupé?
http://www.geocities...ouringcoupe.jpg

But not with similar design characteristics in the body work?
http://www.geocities...uringspider.jpg

#6 Michael Müller

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 12:23

Holger, Geocities makes problems with linking pictures as do most other free-of-charge servers. Right mouseclick on red x, properties, and then copy-pasting of the shown url to the adress field of the browser, picture will be displayed then.

The upper drawing in fact is the 1939 Touring Coupé which won the 1940 MM, the lower one is similar to the NSKK roadster (fake 71), but with front more looking like the Rovelli roadster. No clear side views available of the Rovelli and the Loof car, but obviously they looked similar than the "fake 71", with front part built in 2 different versions.

Uechtel found out that the 3 NSKK roadsters had been ordered after the 1940 MM, and Hühnlein's intention was to enter them in the planned long-distance road race Berlin-Rome. The reason for the order to Touring most probably was the "Superleggera" construction, which made the cars much lighter, and which had been proven successful at the 1940 MM.

#7 Holger Merten

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 12:54

Originally posted by Michael Müller
Holger, Geocities makes problems with linking pictures as do most other free-of-charge servers. Right mouseclick on red x, properties, and then copy-pasting of the shown url to the adress field of the browser, picture will be displayed then.


Okay, thanks, there was no problem in the preview, but I edited and now you have to look by URL

Originally posted by Michael Müller

The upper drawing in fact is the 1939 Touring Coupé which won the 1940 MM, the lower one is similar to the NSKK roadster (fake 71), but with front more looking like the Rovelli roadster. No clear side views available of the Rovelli and the Loof car, but obviously they looked similar than the "fake 71", with front part built in 2 different versions.


I thought the lower drawing IS the NSKK roadster....:


Originally posted by Michael Müller

Uechtel found out that the 3 NSKK roadsters had been ordered after the 1940 MM, and Hühnlein's intention was to enter them in the planned long-distance road race Berlin-Rome. The reason for the order to Touring most probably was the "Superleggera" construction, which made the cars much lighter, and which had been proven successful at the 1940 MM.


Interesting that Hühnlein believed in that Berlin-Rome-race, cause other car manufacturers stopped the development of special Berlin-Rome bodyworks. Or the bodworks were already built, for example from Auto Union in 1939 for DKW, Wanderer and Horch. Or by Porsche for Volkswagen. Do you know the date for that planned Berlin-Rome-race?

#8 alessandro silva

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 15:30

Nino Rovelli was able to find in the immediate post-war days a complete BMW 328 chassis and engine. He was a fellow graduate from the Milan Polytechnic of Carlo Felice Bianchi Anderloni, the Touring bodyshop owner. Through this connection he obtained from Toring pieces of the body conceived around 1940 for a works barchetta supposed to race in the 1941 Berlin-Rome road race.
Rovelli had his car completed by a local bodyshop and raced it in this form at Piacenza.
He was displeased by the road holding and put the engine in a Fiat 1100 chassis with a new (very crude) cycle wing body. He raced it with success in 1947. In 1948, after the race in Bari, the car was sold to an oscure driver from Udine, Aldo Clocchiatti, who put a new barchetta body on the top of the 1100 chassis and raced it in local hill-climbs until 1951 at least.
So Rovelli’s car is not one of the three Huhnlein cars and was raced in that form only in Piacenza.
Good history of the three 40/41 Huhnlein cars with pictures of two of them (spiders) can be found in the book:
T. Aichele: Huschke von Hanstein, the racing baron, pp.76/77.

#9 Michael Müller

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 16:01

@ Holger:
I found some differentials between the "fake 71" and the Touring drawing at the front section, but I'm unable to check once more because the links do not work.

@ Alessandro:
I'm not sure whether you're right that the Rovelli car was not one of the 3 NSKK roadsters. Fact is that 3 cars had been ordered by the NSKK at Touring, and only from one we know by photo that work has been finished (fake 71). Extremely interested to see pictures of the 2nd car as shown in the Hanstein book (wanted to buy this one anyway due to other reasons), does it look like "fake 71" or more like Holger's drawing resp. the Loof or the Rovelli car? You say that the bodywork which Rovelli accquired from Touring was in fact destined for a barchetta to run in the Berlin-Rome event, but I don't think that this was a "works" order, as no new deal is known between BMW and Touring as late as 1940, only the NSKK contract. It may well be that the bits and pieces accquired by Rovelli had been the 3rd - unfinished - NSKK roadster. Would really like to see more pictures of the Rovelli car.
And that Rovelli was not satisfied with the car's roadholding - in this respect I believe he was the only one ...!

Also completely in the dark is the further history of the "fake 71", for sure the car was completed and photographed - but then the track is lost.

#10 alessandro silva

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 17:12

I do not have very good eyes but both cars in the photos in Aichele's book look more lake 71 to me.

Originally posted by Michael Müller
.I'm not sure whether you're right that the Rovelli car was not one of the 3 NSKK roadsters. Fact is that 3 cars had been ordered by the NSKK at Touring, and only from one we know by photo that work has been finished (fake 71)..


Aichele says that only one of the Huhnlein cars is surviving today, with the factory "traveling museum".

Originally posted by Michael Müller
.Extremely interested to see pictures of the 2nd car as shown in the Hanstein book (wanted to buy this one anyway due to other reasons), does it look like "fake 71" or more like Holger's drawing resp. the Loof or the Rovelli car?.

The two photos are – to be precise - on page 75.

Originally posted by Michael Müller
.You say that the bodywork which Rovelli accquired from Touring was in fact destined for a barchetta to run in the Berlin-Rome event, but I don't think that this was a "works" order, as no new deal is known between BMW and Touring as late as 1940, only the NSKK contract.


As a matter of fact I have 39/40 in my notes.

Originally posted by Michael Müller
It may well be that the bits and pieces accquired by Rovelli had been the 3rd - unfinished - NSKK roadster. Would really like to see more pictures of the Rovelli car


That is what it is said.

Originally posted by Michael Müller

And that Rovelli was not satisfied with the car's roadholding - in this respect I believe he was the only one ...!


We might understand why Rovelli was displeased by the following contemporary report:
“…Rovelli has bought an old BMW and he had it remodelled in the Saronno workshops where he has a small business. He has also managed to get some help from Bianchi Anderloni….
When the flag went up, Rovelli shot out in front, from Cortese and Angiolini well behind. He broke away, finished one very high-speed lap and he seemed likely to dominate the whole race. But that was momentary: when he got to the corner at the far end, he took it so badly that he ended up among the bales of hay”.

#11 Bladrian

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 17:23

Originally posted by alessandro silva
He was displeased by the road holding and put the engine in a Fiat 1100 chassis with a new (very crude) cycle wing body. He raced it with success in 1947.


Wow. I would have thought that a reasonably set up BMW chassis would outperform a Fiat 1100 chassis ...... maybe the owner forgot to pump the tyres. ;)

#12 uechtel

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 17:38

Also completely in the dark is the further history of the "fake 71", for sure the car was completed and photographed - but then the track is lost.



Not quite...

Posted Image

I found this one in my archive, but pity I can not remember anymore where I have it from.

To me it´s quite clear, that this is the "fake-71".

And to unknot your dispute can I sum up this correctly:

- Rovelli found an old BMW 328 (a standard model or one of the Touring Roadsters?)
- Touring offered him (body-)parts of one of the NSKK Roadsters, maybe of the third incomplete car

So strictly speaking the car can be regarded as a Touring/NSKK "Replica" built up on a standard BMW 328 chassis?

...and put the engine in a Fiat 1100 chassis with a new (very crude) cycle wing body...

...who put a new barchetta body on the top of the 1100 chassis...



Alessandro, do you have pictures of those, too? I have a real fable for ugly cars...

#13 uechtel

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 17:55

Just looked up Rovelli´s results on Martin Krejci´s sports car site . All entries seem to have been made simply for a "BMW 328":

13.10.46 Voghera - 2nd place
13.4.47 San Remo - 4th
11.5.47 Piacenza - dnf
1.6.47 Vercelli - dnf
29.6.47 Varese - dnf
16.7.47 Modena - 7th
28.9.47 Modena - ?
2.5.48 Mille Miglia - dna
30.5.48 Bari - dnf
13.6.48 Mantova - dna

What is interesting in that list is the fact, that it starts already in 1946. So did Rovelli race the BMW 328 in its original shape before it was converted into the Touring-Roadster shape? But if so less than one month (13.4. to 11.5.) certainly is a very short time to me to build up a car almost completely new under the circumstances of the time. And after that only just three weeks again to get the Fiat-BMW hybrid running. This guy must have been very busy...

#14 Holger Merten

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 19:02

Not important Uechtel, is that a car from the "Mobile Tradition" of BMW? If I have a look of the "M" on the number-plate, which stands for "München", means Munich. I think the bavarians are very well documentated about hardware 328s, as you may have seen in the last issue of "Motor Klassik".

#15 dretceterini

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 22:08

Without checking, I believe that a photo of the Rovelli cycle fendered car is in the book of Millanta photos by Orsini, titled Carambola! and that there are also pictures of the car in the Italain magazine La Manovella.

#16 917

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 22:51

Rainer Simons says in his book "BMW 328 - vom Roadster zum Mythos" (Copyright BMW Mobile Tradition, 1996) that the NSKK - which owned yet some BMW 328 which competed in many races - intended to compete in the Berlin-Rome race independent from BMW.
Three 328 were driven to Milan in November 1940 to be rebodied by Touring, registration numbers were IIA-57781, IIA-57782 and IIA-57783. The new bodies were finished in March 1941 and the cars were driven back to Munich, but soon after they were stored on a farm near Tegernsee.

One of the cars was sold to Walter Assenheimer after the war. The colour of the car had been changed to red in the meantime, Assenheimer painted it silver and made some alterations to the body. He stopped racing in 1950 "when his employer in Stuttgart (also a car manufacturer) suggested this".
A picture (page 239) taken at the start of the 2-Litre sports car class of the German Grand Prix (20 August 1950) shows Assenheimer in his modified 328 (race #28, with large air intake, a bit similar to some Veritas models) besides Willy Daetwyler in his 328 Touring (race #2, body also slightly modified).
Assenheimer's "BMW Spezial" (Special), as he called it, was sold to the USA (with the help of Egon Brütsch), but the trace of the car is lost.
One of the cars (chassis 85051) came back to BMW in 1945 and is still with them: this must be the car in Uechtel's picture.
Nothing is said about the third car.

Regarding Rovelli Simons shows the picture which is at the bottom of Uechtel's first post and states: "Nino Rovelli at the wheel of a BMW 328 (#132) with Touring-like body. Rovelli was a former Touring employee and had the car rebodied in 1946/47."
The strange thing is that the air intake on the bonnet of Rovelli's car is rather similar to that of Daetwyler's car mentioned above.

Kind regards
Michael

#17 uechtel

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Posted 02 December 2002 - 23:12

Pity that I do not own any of the mentioned sources! I´d really like to take a look at the Daetwyler car!

Assenheimer in his modified 328 (race #28, with large air intake, a bit similar to some Veritas models)


Michael (917), does it look like this one

Posted Image

(Of course I refer to the car on the right)

and I think it´s the same car on this picture:

Posted Image

And the Daetwyler car - does it look like car No. 14 on this picture?

Posted Image


The strange thing is that the air intake on the bonnet of Rovelli's car is rather similar to that of Daetwyler's car mentioned above.


and to that of the Loof car, too?

#18 Holger Merten

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 05:04

Uechtel,

this sportscar time seemed to be very complicated, but also very interesting, as you mentionend somewhere before.

Interesting pics, could you give a short comment? Who, where, when, if possible? Thank you.

#19 Michael Müller

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 07:07

The photo posted by Uechtel is in fact a car owned by BMW's historic department, but as far I know it's a complete replica of the NSKK roadster. How they managed to get a "H" (historic) registration for the car I don't know, because any car eligible for this must be at least 30 years old, but it is a fact that they had also the 1940 MM winning Touring Coupé "H" registered, which also is a a complete replica. Only recently they accquired the original from Jim Profitt, after years of quarrel between both. One can say, if Profitt would not have owned the original, the BMW replica would have taken over its place ...! How to enter replicas for the Mille Miglia Storica? Quite simple, you have to sponsor the event!

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#20 Holger Merten

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 07:50

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael Müller
[B(..:)) How they managed to get a "H" (historic) registration for the car I don't know, because any car eligible for this must be at least 30 years old, but it is a fact that they had also the 1940 MM winning Touring Coupé "H" registered, which also is a a complete replica.

Good question! Cause because of the "H", I thought the car must be original.

#21 uechtel

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 08:16

Interesting pics, could you give a short comment? Who, where, when, if possible? Thank you.



Holger, I have not access to my archive at the moment, so I have copied the photos directly from my 8W article. You can get all the information you want from here .

The car in question (on the first two pictures) has been another mystery to me. By putting other facts together I came to the conclusion, that it might be Assenheimer´s car, but I have not got any confirmation for that so far.

And the car on the third picture - I have been quite sure, that it shows the car of Luxemburgian Honoré Wagner, but meanwhile I have confirmation, that he used a Veritas in some races, so I am not so sure any more, that the picture really shows him. Of course it could still be possible.

#22 Michael Müller

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 10:28

Holger, you mentioned already "Motor Klassik", so read the editorial on page 3, where Holger Lapp, Chief of the BMW Historic Division, says (translated) that he will remove now the "H" registrations from all replicas, simply due to the fact that the cars are no 30 years old. So how did they get the "H" registrations? Good question, or ...?

#23 Holger Merten

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 12:18

Michael, I know that from my time for Audi tradition, we didn't had replicas at that time, but I had a small red book and a number-plate. And whenever I changed the car (with the same number plate) I wrote the type of the car, some data of the car (engine number, and so on) into the book, fixed the number plate and drove away. So I used, if necessary, the same number for a 1983 sport quattro and the next day for a 1939 Audi 920.

These are the advantages a car manufacturer has, as you can imagine for prototypes on test drive.

#24 Michael Müller

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 15:18

Holger, are you talking about standard plates or the red "06..." resp. "07..." ones?
However, in the case of BMW the cars all have individual numberplates. The "H" registration means that cars older than 30 years pay a reduced road tax, and the age of such cars must be proven to the authorities. Legally this is (small-scale) tax crime, but in my opinion much more problematic are the documents which must have been presented by BMW with the subsequent official acceptance that the cars in question are from 1939 resp. 1940.
It is well known that some (or most?) of the Auto Unions are replicas, but Audi always promoted this fact. But BMW is trying to hide the replica status whereever possible, as you said, based on the "H" registration the car must be original, and it is also well-known that the MM Storica organizers only accept genuine cars.

#25 Holger Merten

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 15:32

Holger, are you talking about standard plates or the red "06..." resp. "07..." ones? However, in the case of BMW the cars all have individual numberplates. The "H" registration means that cars older than 30 years pay a reduced road tax, and the age of such cars must be proven to the authorities. Legally this is (small-scale) tax crime, but in my opinion much more problematic are the documents which must have been presented by BMW with the subsequent official acceptance that the cars in question are from 1939 resp. 1940.


Red ones, at that time there were no "H"-number-plate available.

It is well known that some (or most?) of the Auto Unions are replicas, but Audi always promoted this fact. But BMW is trying to hide the replica status whereever possible, as you said, based on the "H" registration the car must be original, and it is also well-known that the MM Storica organizers only accept genuine cars.


Auto Unions? You are talking about the Silverarrows? Yes, replicas, only the Typ C/D Hillclimber is original. But the other 90 cars in the Audi collection are all original.

Couldn't understand, that BMW Tradition makes that "H"-fake before? As you know, how confusing that could be. Especially for those, who search on TNF in 63 years.

#26 uechtel

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Posted 07 December 2002 - 17:04

Originally posted by uechtel
Pity that I do not own any of the mentioned sources! I´d really like to take a look at the Daetwyler car!


Michael (917), does it look like this one

Posted Image

(Of course I refer to the car on the right)

and I think it´s the same car on this picture:

Posted Image

And the Daetwyler car - does it look like car No. 14 on this picture?

Posted Image



and to that of the Loof car, too?


917, why so quiet? Have you fallen asleep for the winter? :wave:

I just long for that confirmation or alternatively to see that 1950 picture you mentioned...

#27 917

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 11:52

uechtel,

sorry, but not only TNF is time consuming, but my job too!

The Assenheimer car in the Simons book is the same one as in your pictures. It has only one air intake on the bonnet (as in your second picture), but still has the slots in the bonnet as the original Touring car. The caption says indeed "Nr. 28: Walter Assenheimer auf 328-Eigenbau", but I believe that the "328-Eigenbau" (self-built) and the "328 Spezial" (see my earlier post) are the same car.

The Daetwyler car is very, very similar to the Rovelli car, though the air intake on the bonnet of the Rovelli car seems to be a little bit wider. Apart from the full-width windscreen the Loof and Daetwyler cars are also rather similar, but your #14 has a complete different body.

Unfortunately I have no scanner, so I cannot send the picture to you in electronic form. But I shall ask my friends and colleagues whether they have a scanner at home, but as I am rather occupied with my job presently, it will take some time.

Kind regards
Michael

#28 uechtel

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 15:26

Michael, thank you!

sorry, but not only TNF is time consuming, but my job too!



I know, I know! And this is the reason why I waited a whole week until reminding you ;)

It´s only, that I did not want it to be forgotten, as it´s details like this, which make the difference!

In the past I had some troubles sorting the Assenheimer in properly, so the question has been somewhat important to me. In some sources it was even given as a Veritas, which I did not believe, but have not been able to prove it either. Now I have a prove, that at least one of the NSKK roadsters was present in Germany after the war and that not every pontoon-shaped streamliner must be automatically regarded to be a Veritas.

I believe that the "328-Eigenbau" (self-built) and the "328 Spezial" (see my earlier post) are the same car.



Yes, I think you are wuite right with that opinion. "Spezial" and "Eigenbau" were nearly interchangeable descriptions and it could even happen, that they appeared simply as "BMW 328" in the entry lists. Did not matter very much in those days.

The only thing I wonder is why did Assenheimer hide its true identity and why did he not enter it as a "Touring"-Roadster? Or even use that "71"-fake picture (or something else like that) to pretend, that his car was one of the Mille Miglia participants? In that case he would certainly have been able to be offered quite a little bit more starting money...

The Daetwyler car is very, very similar to the Rovelli car, though the air intake on the bonnet of the Rovelli car seems to be a little bit wider. Apart from the full-width windscreen the Loof and Daetwyler cars are also rather similar, but your #14 has a complete different body.



So I think, this is evidence enough to assume, that the "fake-71" and "non-fake-non-71" pictures show the car in some early condition, and that that air intake was a familiar modification, so that it is very probably to me now, that the Loof car was indeed one of the NSKK/Touring roadsters, maybe even, that the Loof and the Daetwyler car might be one and the same. Do you have any further informations about Daetwyler´s car or do you know when and under which circumstances he acquired it?

Unfortunately I have no scanner, so I cannot send the picture to you in electronic form. But I shall ask my friends and colleagues whether they have a scanner at home, but as I am rather occupied with my job presently, it will take some time.



Ok, I try to be patient... :rolleyes:

#29 Holger Merten

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 16:01

Uechtel, may you find out more under this link:
http://www.oldtimer....ngeschichte.htm

#30 uechtel

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 23:09

Holger, thank you for that link.

And again I found a picture there which instantly causes my confusion to come up again:

Posted Image

Looking at the number plate and the general lines of the car this is certainly not one of the Mille Miglia cars, at least not in the same state. Probably a post-war shot, but I can not recognize the first letter of the number plate to have this confirmed.

It looks rather like a mixture of the Touring coupe and one of the NSKK roadsters. The sides look very similar to the Mille Miglia winner (Toruing Coupe), but the lights and the radiator inlet are quite different.

I know that the car has been subsequently modified, for example with a smaller radiator inlet, which would fit to that picture, but I never saw a picture of it with lights mounted like that.



And I just thought I had that question solved...

#31 dretceterini

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 02:04

As far as I am aware, there was only one coupe; the one that ran in the Mille Miglia. I think that it is that car, with modifications. Of course I could be mistaken. :(

#32 uechtel

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 07:49

Yes, only one Coupe.

So who when where and why these modifications?

Have not enough time to think about it at the moment...

#33 Holger Merten

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 10:33

And this one?

Posted Image

#34 uechtel

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 12:58

Holger, this is certainly no Coupe, but one of three roadsters, which have also taken part in the Mille Miglia (or even possibly even only a replica?). And it is for sure not one of the NSKK roadsters either.

To bring it in mind again this thread is originally about three cars - the NSKK Roadsters built by Toruing at Milan, which have not taken part in the 1940 Mille Miglia. And then there are - not counting the various replicas, that might be around - five further cars, which actually had started there, three of them roadsters (as can be seen in the picture posted by you), then the original Touring-bodied Coupe (which won in the hands of von Hanstein / Bäumer) and finally the BMW-built "Limousine" of Lurani / Cortese. So eight different cars in total to be sorted out properly.

And this is no easy task, as there seem to have been quite some professional efforts to fake the true identities, see the "fake-71" photo and even today on many websites you can still get confused very easily, as often there is no suffcient explanation, which car played which role.

A good example for this is here:

http://www.bmwworld....ille_miglia.htm

So no explicit notice, that the car on top of that page is actually not the winner, only a slight remark in the text, that the race was won by a Coupe (of which at least is the original photo of the left), driven by a certain "Huschke von Kanstein"!!! :evil: :cry: :down:

And of course also no mention at all of the fact, that the car at the bottom left (the NSKK model) has in fact never taken part in the Mille Miglia (at least until they began to run it as a vintage event or course...)

So we must be careful not to mix up things here, too.

#35 uechtel

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 13:03

For discussion about the Mille Miglia partcipants see also this thread

#36 uechtel

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 22:25

Originally posted by uechtel
Holger, thank you for that link.

And again I found a picture there which instantly causes my confusion to come up again:

Posted Image

Looking at the number plate and the general lines of the car this is certainly not one of the Mille Miglia cars, at least not in the same state. Probably a post-war shot, but I can not recognize the first letter of the number plate to have this confirmed.

It looks rather like a mixture of the Touring coupe and one of the NSKK roadsters. The sides look very similar to the Mille Miglia winner (Toruing Coupe), but the lights and the radiator inlet are quite different.

I know that the car has been subsequently modified, for example with a smaller radiator inlet, which would fit to that picture, but I never saw a picture of it with lights mounted like that.

And I just thought I had that question solved...


So with thanks to Michael Müller´s hint I am already on my feet again and can present the first trace to the answer on this page

For all the non-German-speaking here my translation effort of the decisive passage:

"After the Allied occupation in May 1945 the car appeared again and was soon confiscated by US officers. On a trip with the car one of them loses control and so it ends up in a ditch where its driver simply leaves it behind. Former BMW engineer Claus von Rücker, who now runs the airplane engine plant at Allach under allied control, learns of this accident by chance. He recognizes the true value of the car (which was already painted in US olive green colour) and salvages it. After some official estimation he is finally able to bring the car into his own property.

Von Rücker starts to repair the damaged car on his own and in doing so he is able to bring the car to the first German race after the war, the Ruhestein hillclimb, where it is driven by his friend, the racing driver Hermann Lang. And Lang is even able to win this very first race. A little later Claus von Rücker emigrates to Canada and takes the Mille Miglia Coupe with him, where he sells it soon after to New York photographer and racing driver Robert Grier, who has it painted red and uses it - fitted with big bumpers - in normal traffic and in some hill climbs..."

And this leads us to a picture we already know:

Posted Image

which shows Hermann Holbein at the Ruhestein in 1946. And yes, clearly - same place, same time!

And suddenly all fits together, the registration plate, the different bodywork, the strange surroundings and I have no doubts any more, that the picture shows the Mille Miglia winner driven by would-still-be-reigning-if-he-had-ever-been-the-rightful European Champion ;) Lang at the Ruhestein in 1946. And the different front is simply the result of von Rückert´s repairs. Cool! :cool:

#37 917

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Posted 18 January 2003 - 21:46

Uechtel,

sorry, but still no chance to scan the pictures.

Today I found an article written by Ian Young in "Thoroughbred & Classic Cars" (this is the wonderful sonorous export title of the magazine known as "Classic Cars" in its home market) and published in the July 1996 issue ("Casualty of War", p. 84-89):

The car (...) is a BMW 328 Roadster bodied by the Milanese coachbuilder Touring in 1940/41. It is not one of the Mille Miglia cars but the connections are obvious from first glance. Its history is uncertain even to BMW, although it is known to be one of three standard 328 roadsters 'acquired' by the Third Reich's Nationalsozialistisches Kraftfahr Korps (NSKK) - the Nazi sporting propaganda movement - in early 1938. The NSKK's plan, according to BMW historians, was to run three lightweight cars - similar to the successful Mille Miglia machines already under development at BMW - that would compete against the works BMW team in international long-distance events such as the Mille Miglia and the Rome-Berlin race. Its motive - to beat the BMW factory entries - seems a curious one but the fact remains that three standard 328s were driven to Milan in autumn of 1940, a few months after BMW had finished first, third, fifth and sixth in that year's Mille Miglia.

(...) The same principles were therefore employed on the three NSKK cars: aerodynamic panels moulded out of Duralumin and layered on to a tubular light-alloy framework - the total weight of which was just 80 kg. Each car weighed a mere 644 kg. (...) According to figures from Touring, they had a drag coefficient of just 0.25 - compared to the Mille Miglia cars' 0.29. (...)

The rebodied trio returned to Germany in the spring of 1941 and were entered in that year's Rome-Berlin race; but this was as far as they got. Wartime events took over and the race was cancelled. Having never even turned a wheel in competition, the cars were apparently hidden on a farm near Salzburg. Not surprisingly, it is in trying to trace their movements after the war that difficulties are encountered. (...)

Little is known of the NSKK cars, however, and reports from nearer the time introduce more, not less, confusion. According to an article in a July 1948 edition of The Motor by Laurence Pomeroy, there were never as many as three cars built.

He mentions also an article from October 1945 in which Sir Roy Fedden quotes BMW Chief Engineer Dr Fritz Fiedler talking about the prototype of an entirely new 2-litre sports model, also hidden on a farm near Salzburg, but this could have been a prototype of the 328 successor "318" whose lines were very similar to the 1940 Mille Miglia roadsters.

The theory that there may have only been one Touring-bodied car from that period is blown apart, though, by the fact that all three were photographed together on their journey back from Touring to Munich. (...)

Touring-bodied car number one was modified after the war into a Formula 2 racing car and campaigned as a 'BMW Special' by a Heidelberg-based driver named Rovelli. It appears in an article in The Autocar by Gordon Wilkins, dated July 1948. According to BMW, Rovelli's car - distinguished by its bonnet intake and lack of a central bonnet strip - was sold to an American buyer in the Fifties and disappeared without trace.

The fate of car number two, in short, is unknown. It disappeared without trace either during or after the war. Number three, however, somehow found its way back to BMW's Munich factory, where it gathered dust and was occasionally brought out for demonstration runs. It was erroneously thought to be one of the famous five Mille Miglia cars entered by the factory, until Classic Car's founding editor Michael Bowler identified it as one of the NSKK Touring-bodied cars... (...)

The fact that we are able to have a go in it now is entirely due to the enthusiasm of Christian Eich, who has spent the last two years reviving BMW's heritage through the company's newest department, Mobile Tradition. The surviving member of the trio has been comprehensively and faithfully restored to its original state by the Wurzburg restorer Helmut Feierabend and arrives back at BMW late one Friday evening in early May.

The text is accompanied by some colour pictures of the restored car (with the registration "M - MF 328", as the "H" plates weren't yet introduced), a panel about the five 328 which competed in the 1940 Mille Miglia and four black-and-white pictures, two of them showing the cars "snapped on the way back from Milan, spring 1941". The vehicle in the third picture looks exactly like the Daetwyler car and the caption says "One of the Touring trio, probably Rovelli's, on test". The fourth picture shows a car with monoposto body, but with headlights and mudguards, and is captioned "Rovelli's car was cut up and modified for Formula 2".

Rovelli - Heidelberg-based? Was Rovelli's car modified for Formula 2 or (and?) sold to an American buyer? I think we have now more questions than before this article. Has anybody access to the Gordon Wilkins article of 1948?

But one point is interesting: Despite being heavily modified, the Assenheimer car at the start of the German GP Sports Car race 1950 has a central bonnet strip - in contrast to the Daetwyler car, the car pictured on test and the Rovelli car in Piacenza 1947.

So we can continue to guess: either all original cars are lost and the "restored" car is a replica (see post by Michael Müller on 03-Dec-02 08:07) or the BMW car is original, the Assenheimer car went to USA (but its trace is lost), the Rovelli car was sold to and/or driven by Willy Daetwyler, converted to Formula 2 and finally sold to USA (where its trace is lost too) or ...

Kind regards
Michael

#38 uechtel

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 10:50

Michael, whow!

I am deeply impressed! :clap:

Ok, there are now some more open questions, but on the other hand it becomes clear, that there IS quite some information about these cars, only to be fitted together, so it might be even possible for us to get the final truth some day...

And I think we can take the text and the pictures as an coinfirmation, that indeed three such cars found their way back into Germany in 1941.

So here my first thoughts about this:

Rovelli:
Three cars bought from the factory by the NSKK, receiving new bodywork in Italy and then transferred back to the BMW factory? Sounds a little bit strange to me, but of course it could be possible. On the other hand this is a contradiction to Alessandro´s post, where he tells us, that Rovelli had good connections to the Touring company and had his car build up from an original BMW 328 there. I think the final clue to this lies in the question, whether Rovelli was indeed Heidelberg-based or not. If not, then it sounds very unlikely to me, that an Italian would make the long journey to Germany only to buy a race car, which did not even fall under the rules of the most races in his home country (Formula 2 not yet introduced in 1947 and the races generally run for 1100 cc cars), when there were enough Fiats quite freely available at home. So perhaps again our Italian friends here will be able to help us further on this issue?

Assenheimer:
The text leaves open which of the other two cars was the Assenheimer car and neither of them fits completely into the text: The trace of the second car was immediately lost and the third one always retained by the factory? So either one of this statements is wrong or Assenheimer´s car was indeed not a NSKK roadster but a true Eigenbau. Or - admittedly a far-fetched explanation - Heidelberg became almost some kind of a synonyme for Germany, at least for Americans, and as Heilbronn (where Assenheimer lived) is not too far away from there, perhaps there is some mismatch and it was Assenheimer, who got the first car. Of course this would mean, that Rovelli had built up a fourth car for himself.

Loof:
Astonishingly his name has not been mentioned yet and also no reference so far to the 1945/46 picture I have posted here already. But if you look for somebody, who had knowledge of the whereabouts of the BMW factory cars, you have certainly to take him into account, as he had been BMW´s "race director" before the war. So no surprise for me to see him appearing with one of these cars, as we already know, that he had also the Mille Miglia Limousine in his garage.

And then it is also very clear, that the NSKK roadsters had at least an inspring effect on Loof when he built his first series of Veritas sports cars, at least most of my sources agree on that. So he must have taken at least a close look at one of them (remember: The rebodying was an idea of the NSKK, not of the BMW factory if the text is right!).

In the early years Loof´s method to "produce" his cars was to take an used BMW 328, strip it and fit it with new pontoon bodywork and deliver it to its owner with a Veritas badge on it. So for every "new" Veritas an old car had to die and perhaps this is also the fate of the third NSKK roadster?

Just to understand what I mean take a look at this picture:

Posted Image

This is Loof´s very first Veritas prototype (the "Großmutter" in its initial shape), which differed to the later "series" by quite some details. The main difference is the "Zierleiste" (sorry, I have no English word for that), which runs over the whole bonnet of the car from the radiator to the cockpit. This can not be seen again on any of the other "RS", but it is there on the NSKK car...

Of course this is by no means a proof for this, as Loof was of course not only a manufacturer, but also a car seller, and so it could also well be possible, that after examining the NSKK car porperly he built up the "Großmutter" from scratch and sold his NSKK roadster (if he ever owned one) to some other lucky owner (Assenheimer? Rovelli? or even back to the factory?)

So - yes Michael, you´re right: Many questions still open...

#39 alessandro silva

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 18:33

Quote::Three cars bought from the factory by the NSKK, receiving new bodywork in Italy and then transferred back to the BMW factory? Sounds a little bit strange to me, but of course it could be possible. Endquote

Anyone interested in this matter should investigate the pictures on page 75 of von Hanstein’s biography. TWO cars are shown in Alpine passes supposedly on the way back from Italy.

Quote::on the other hand this is a contradiction to Alessandro´s post, where he tells us, that Rovelli had good connections to the Touring company and had his car build up from an original BMW 328 there. Endquote.

Why? The body could have been made of spares.

Quote:: I think the final clue to this lies in the question, whether Rovelli was indeed Heidelberg-based or not.
If not, then it sounds very unlikely to me, that an Italian would make the long journey to Germany only to buy a race car,
Endquote.

No Italian could have been “Heidelberg-based” in 1946. Plainly impossible. Rovelli likely bought an engine and a chassis on the “parallel market” of German war surplus as – for instance – Sommer and Martin did in France with complete cars.
While the origins of Rovelli’s engine and chassis are unknown, the story of the car from the Touring shop to the early 50s is very well documented so it is completely known.
Fantasies about F2 cars and American buyers could be romantic, but are very dangerous in view of today’s market interest in BMW 328s.
Rovelli’ car went through three major states and a spin-off:
a) pseudo-original BMW-Touring barchetta. It is NOT one of the two in the von Hanstein’s book.
b) After the Piacenza crash , the body was changed to a much lighter cycle-wings cigar-shaped that Rovelli used until early 48, sometimes ( once? now I do not remember off-hand) stripped for early 48 F2 races.
c) The engine found a one-off employment in a Fiat 1100 chassis for the international Turin sports car race in late 47
d) Mid-48 the car was sold to Aldo Clocchiatti who had it rebodied as a barchetta similar to the innumerable Fiat spl. of the time. The local bodyshop that performed the change is known. Clocchiatti is known to have raced the car until at least 1951.

It is clear that Rovelli’s was form the beginning a BMW Spl. I have pictures documenting all the situations a, b, c, d. During 1947, Auto Italiana was – for some reason – interested in the changes in Rovelli’s car and there are pictures and articles.
I’ll scan four photographs in the situations a,b,c,d for Uechtel when I’ll have time. I cannot post them directly.

Rovelli’s personal history is also very interesting and I’ll tell it sometimes in this thread.

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#40 uechtel

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 20:24

Anyone interested in this matter should investigate the pictures on page 75 of von Hanstein’s biography. TWO cars are shown in Alpine passes supposedly on the way back from Italy.



At the moment I start to miss miss that book in my library more and more desperately!

On the other hand this is a contradiction to Alessandro´s post, where he tells us, that Rovelli had good connections to the Touring company and had his car build up from an original BMW 328 there.

Why? The body could have been made of spares.



Yes, of course. No problem with that. In fact, that sounds indeed quite probable to me.

But getting his car directly from Touring means, that it was not one of the cars, which had been brought to Germany, regardless of whether there were two or three of them, and the "Heidelberg"-passage in Michael´s text would not make any sense at all. Do you see the point?

No Italian could have been “Heidelberg-based” in 1946. Plainly impossible. Rovelli likely bought an engine and a chassis on the “parallel market” of German war surplus as – for instance – Sommer and Martin did in France with complete cars.



A "parallel market" of German war surplus in Italy containing parts of BMW 328 sports cars??? To me it sounds more likely, that either the car had come quite regularly to Italy before the war or even - are you absolutely sure, that his car is not one of the original NSKK-Roadsters? Perhaps a semi-sister car? If indeed there were only two cars retunring to Germany this must have had a reason! Remaining longer for further aerodynamic experiments? And what happened to the car afterwards? Or did it simply disappear?

I’ll scan four photographs in the situations a,b,c,d for Uechtel when I’ll have time. I cannot post them directly.



:love: Great news! At least one member here with a scanner at home :cry: I think there is enough space left on my AOL account to post everything you send to me, even if it is not the fastest place to load pictures from.

Rovelli’s personal history is also very interesting and I’ll tell it sometimes in this thread.



Again I am very excited alredy!

#41 Michael Müller

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 21:44

I'm back again on duty. Took 10 days off X-mas / New Year, and as revenge I had no leisure time the last 2 weeks. I bought the Hanstein book some weeks ago, and have it at hands now since 2 weeks, but no time to scan and post. However, finally here the pictures (they're very small, and my scanning capabilites are very limited ...).

Posted Image

Posted Image

In fact at both pictures only 2 cars could be seen, but that does not mean that the full picture(s) show indeed 3 cars. In my opinion at least one car is slightly different from the photo at the top of this thread, the front wings look somewhat more shaped, and also the headlight bases seem to be different. But I'm not totally sure.

#42 uechtel

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 22:38

Michael :clap:

you made my day!


Any idea, who are the persons on the pictures?

#43 Michael Müller

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 22:51

Absolutely not. The text near the pics says only "testing in the Alps of the 1940/41 Touring Superleggera cars, which never had been raced". However, the guy in the coat could be von Hanstein.

There are numerous pics from the 1940 MM, but most of them known already, and so far there are no remaining questions about the 1940 cars. For you the book may be of interest, mainly because of some rare postwar pictures, e.g. the Petermax Müller VW's (Pertrix-VW), Condor F3, etc.
Look sporadically at German ebay, normally always 1 or 2 are on offer, however, actually nothing.

#44 Michael Müller

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Posted 19 January 2003 - 22:54

By the way, the cars carry Munich registration plates (IIA), but the NSKK had its HQ at Berlin (IA). Works cars ...??

#45 uechtel

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 17:11

Originally posted by Michael Müller
By the way, the cars carry Munich registration plates (IIA), but the NSKK had its HQ at Berlin (IA). Works cars ...??


Yes, an interesting detail indeed!

And if the cars were not destined for the BMW factory but for the NSKK instead, why give them to regular BMW driver von Hanstein for test drives?

#46 Holger Merten

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Posted 20 January 2003 - 19:39

Originally posted by Michael Müller
By the way, the cars carry Munich registration plates (IIA), but the NSKK had its HQ at Berlin (IA). Works cars ...??


May not. I know it from the AU: they had a special department - the Behördenabteilung - to prepare the cars for the NSKK, often driven as semi-works-car. So the car comes from AU, BMW, Opel, MB whatelse, but some of the drivers were from the NSKK or Wehrmacht. If this is the right interpretation for 1940 BMW's, I don't know, but it could be a possibility.

#47 uechtel

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Posted 21 January 2003 - 15:17

Yes, BUT if the NSKK roadsters were intended to compete AGAINST the works cars in the Rome-berlin race (as Michael "917" quotes), it is unlikely to hand the cars to the factory and to let works drivers make test runs.

The NSKK's plan, according to BMW historians, was to run three lightweight cars - similar to the successful Mille Miglia machines already under development at BMW



Reading this passage in Michael´s quote it starts sounding a bit strange to me: Were the NSKK roadsters similar to the "successful Mille Miglia machines" or to the cars "already under development at BMW"? I think one expression excludes the other and summing all this up: Could it be meant, that the NSKK ordered BMW to develop the three cars for them (so not to compete the works team but to replace it?). This would explain why the cars were handed out to the factory and driven by the works drivers.

And Michael, you mentioned Rainer Simons´ book. Does he tell any details of when, how and from where Assenheimer has got his car (and what happened to it after he quit racing in 1950)?

Perhaps that will help to sort out ownership of the cars during the war.

#48 uechtel

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 10:42

The blind and the lame...

In this case it´s me who owns a scanner and Michael 917, who has all those interesting pictures and articles at home.

So he made some photocopies and sent them to me. Of course the results lack a little bit in quality, but I think, they are still good enough for our purposes here.

So back to the transfer of the cars from Italy to Germany:

The first picture is from Thoroughbred & Classis Cars, July 1996, and is clearly another shot from the same scene as on the photo posted by Michael Müller:

Posted Image

Turn your attention to the number plate: The car in front is IIA-57783, while that one of the car in the background is not visible, neither here nor on Michael Müller´s picture.

But in the same article and also in the already mentioned book of Rainer Simon there is another picture from the same "event", clearly showing IIA-57782:

Posted Image

As I said, the quality is lacking a little bit, but on the photocopy it is cleary that number on the plate!

And then Simons has also this picture of the third car, IIA-57781:

Posted Image

This picture is also mentioned in T&CC and they take it as a proof, that there were indeed THREE cars completed by Touring and that all THREE were returned back to Germany.

Quote: "The theory that there may have only been one Touring-bodied car from that period is blown apart, though, by the fact that all three were photographed together on their journey back from Touring to Munich. Two pictures, taken near Lake Garda, clearly show three cars on the trip. The registration numbers of two, IIA-57783 and IIA-57782, are visible; the third is obscured. The third car was in fact, registered IIA-57781: It appears in Anderloni and Anselmi´s book 'Touring Superleggera' with a pipe-smoking BMW-director alongside."

So for me it seems indeed clear now, that there were three such cars. Also Simons has a good explanation for the Munich number plates, as he states, that the three original BMW 328 roadsters were brought to Italy by the Munich NSKK squad.

Proof, that all three cars have returned to Germany would be if anybody could confirm, that the third picture shows indeed "a pipe-smoking BMW-director" and that it was taken at Munich and not in Italy, but I tend to believe that. What I still really wonder is how do they know, that the car with the invisible number plate on the first picture is indeed the third car, IIA-57781?

Perhaps anybody here around has access to that Anderloni / Anselmi book mentioned above and is able to clear the remaining uncertainties?


But now to the further fate of the cars.

I think, that I am quite right with my suspect, that T&CC mismatched Assenheimer and Rovelli in that article: "Touring-bodied car number one was modified after the war into a Formula 2 car and campaigned as a 'BMW Special' by Heidelberg-based driver named Rovelli. It appears in 'The Autocar' by Gordon Wilkins, dated July 1948. According to BMW, Rovelli´s car - distinguished by its bonnet intake and a lack of a central bonnet strip - was sold to an American buyer in the Fifties and disappeared without trace."

So if you replace "Rovelli" by "Assenheimer", "Heidelberg" by "Heilbronn" and "Formula 2" by "2 litre sports car" the passage will make sense again.

Posted Image

Michael 917 has already referred to this picture. It is the photo taken at the start of the 1950 Grand Prix, sports car race. The car in front, No. 28, is without any doubt Assenheimer.

But lookin at the picture again one question remains to me and I still wonder why he put that much effort in his car, replacing bonnet, front, radiator inlet, headrest and even a different-shaped side door (if I recognise that correct), only to form a car which is very much the same as the original?

Alongside him is Swiss Willy Daetwyler in a car which looks very similar to one of the NSKK Roadsters, but with an air intake on the bonnet that reminds very much to the cars of Rovelli and Loof. So another one of the series or simply a car, whose "producer" was only "inspired" by the NSKK Roadsters?

Here is what T&CC says about the other two cars: "The fate of car number two, in short, is unknown. It disappeared without trace either during or after the war. Number three, however, somehow found its way back to BMW´s Munich factory, where it gathered dust and was occasionally brought out for demonstration runs."

So no clue from that.

Here is what Simons has to contribute to this question:
"The cars returned to Munich on their own wheels. There they were parked at BMW´s initially. But shortly afterwards they were hidden on a farmhouse at the Tegernsee.

With help from former BMW employee Willi Huber one of these cars came into possession of Walter Assenheimer after the war, who slightly changed the styling of the car and gave it a silver coloir (it had been painted in red in the meantime). Assenheimer was an enthusiast BMW driver, but in 1950 he quit racing, pushed a little bit by his Stuttgart-based employer, which was building cars of another make.

With the Help of Egon Brütsch Assenheimer´s "BMW Spezial" (as he called it) was sold to America, where its trace gets lost. At least on of the cars (85051 - the first car that the NSKK had acquired) came back to the factory in 1945 and has survived until now as part of the BMW Mobile Tradition"

A few pages later Simons tells about some immediate post-war efforts of former BMW employees, Loof, Holbein, Dietrich, Meier, Huber: "The first roadster streamliner was destined for Sauermann, the second to Holbein (later to be known as the HH47), the third was for Kling.

So it is no accidental, that the bodyworks of these three "Specials" remind very much to the three ONS (sic!) Roadsters, which had been produced by Touring in 1940/41. Indeed one of these cars had found its way from its hiding place at the Tegernsee to Huber´s garage in the meantime."

Two of the cars mentioned here can be seen on the next pictures, first Holbein in his HH 47 at Hockenheim, 1947:

Posted Image

and here is the car of Kling at Hamburg in the same year:

Posted Image :


But what about the third car? To me there are three possibilities:

* It is in fact the car, which went to Assenheimer - very unlikely regarding the upper lines of the car, which are very more like the NSKK Roadster than the Kling and Holbein cars, so I would exclude that.

* The car is identical to that on the picture showing Loof in 1946 (see above) - unlikely to me, as the BMW "kidneys" seem to have been already out of fashion, but still a slight possibility

* The car is what later became known as the first Veritas, the "Großmutter" and remained with Loof, which is my favourite version.

Here is a picture of the Großmutter from 1949, driven by Ulmen at the Schottenring (the car in front):

Posted Image

I think, that looks very similar.

So that only leaves the Rovelli mystery to be treated.

Simons tells, that Rovelli was former Touring employee and converted the car by himself. And T&CC has this picture:

Posted Image

Is this really the Rovelli car??? T&CC themselves are not very sure about that: "One of the Touring trio, probably Rovelli´s, on test." If my understanding of all, that was written here is right, then Rovelli used the car in "NSKK-"spec only once and then converted it to an open wheeler. But on the Piacenza picture there seem to be some additional air intakes on top of the radiator, so I think this is not the Rovelli car.

But what is it? Is it the Assenheimer ? Unlikely, as this would have meant a second conversion of the air intake. To me it looks very much like the Daetwyler car in the picture above. But it could of course also be the Loof car, or even both cars could be one and the same!

Any answers to that question?

And Michael, thank you again, for those very conclusive pictures! You see, they helped us a lot further!

#49 Michael Müller

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Posted 25 January 2003 - 14:38

Short note from my side, the possibility that the BMW NSKK roadster museum car could be a replica is from the table, in the meantime I found pictures showing the car as early as the 70s.

#50 917

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 12:09

Michael,

thank you for posting the pictures from the Hanstein book. Alessandro wrote (post of 2nd December) that a "good history of the three 40/41 Huhnlein cars" could be found in the book. Does it contain something which was not yet mentioned in this thread?

Alessandro,

in your post of 2nd December (18:12) you tell us that Rovelli's car "ended up among the bales of hay" and in your post of 19th January you wrote of "after the Piacenza crash". Do I understand correctly that Rovelli crashed his car in the Piacenza race of 11 May 1947 and that this is the reason why this was the only race where it started in this form?
I will be happy when you tell Rovelli's story in this thread and when you find the time to scan the pictures. Then we (or at least Uechtel) can compare whether the picture in the T&CC story (page 89) is the same as form b) you mention. But as I know very good how it is to have too less time for your hobbies, I'll be patient.

But another question: Do you know the correct address of the International Touring Registry? I found an issue of "Motor-Klassik" with a report about Touring and Carlo Felice Bianchi Anderloni which ends with the information that Mr. Anderloni is president of the "Register International Touring Superleggera, Via Milano 130, Caronno Pertusella, Varese 21042, Italy". But I am not sure whether this address is still up-to-date, as the article was in the issue of April 1996. If Mr. Anderloni is still alive, he can celebrate his 87th birthday next 7th April. Regarding BMW, they mention in this article only the Mille Miglia winning coupé. (By the way: in the same issue is the obituary for Huschke von Hanstein and it is a nice coincidence that the cover picture shows a BMW 328 roadster.) I think it is not very likely that the Touring Register knows more about these cars than the BMW company, but it is not impossible.

But I am still hoping that we can find the Gordon Wilkins article in "The Autocar" (July 1948) to see whether it is about the Rovelli or the Assenheimer car.

Uechtel,

your scans are very good.

I'm not sure whether "Oldtimer-Markt" ever published something about the NSKK roadsters, but maybe you could ask them (but I don't know whether we can call them a credible source, as they moved from Wiesbaden to Mainz some time ago...;) :lol: )

Kind regards
Michael