29 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

One of the least famous 'customers' of a famous British marque - might anyone have a competition record on either two wheels or four for the Frenchman, Roger Revol, circa 1960-1961???

DCN

[WGD706]

1959 Italian Formula Junior Championship
21 June 1959 - Circuito di Caserta
Caserta - 25 laps, 113.750 km
1 Nino Crivellari I Stanguellini-Fiat 50m41.3
2 Alfredo Tinazzo I de Sanctis-Fiat 25
3 Antonio Maglione I de Sanctis-Fiat 25
4 Angelo Bianco I Pirocchi-Fiat 25
5 Giuseppe Dejoanna I Stanguellini-Fiat 24
6 Lucio de Sanctis I de Sanctis-Fiat 23
7 Roger Revol F Stanguellini-Fiat 23

28 June 1959 - Coppa Junior
Autodromo Nazionale di Monza, Pista Stradale - 2x26 laps, 299.0 km
1 Juan-Manuel Bordeu RA Stanguellini-Fiat 52
2 Raffaele Cammarota I Stanguellini-Fiat 52
3 Roger Revol F Stanguellini-Fiat 52
4 Carmelo Genovese I Stanguellini-Fiat 51
5 Peter Carpenter USA Stanguellini-Fiat 51
6 Eleazar Morrison YU Stanguellini-Fiat 51
7 Gastone Zanarotti I Stanguellini-Fiat 50
8 G. Madero I Stanguellini-Fiat 50
9 Giacomo Russo I Stanguellini-Fiat 50
10 Leon Dernier B Stanguellini-Fiat 50


12 July 1959 - Circuito Citta di Salerno
Salerno - 50 laps, 135.0 km
1 Berardo Taraschi I Taraschi-Fiat 1h11m07.1
2 Juan-Manuel Bordeu RA Stanguellini-Fiat 50
3 Peter Carpenter USA Stanguellini-Fiat 50
4 Jacques Jauson F Taraschi-Fiat 49
5 Roger Revol F Stanguellini-Fiat 49
6 Giuseppe Dejoanna I Stanguellini-Fiat 49
7 Fernando Natella I Taraschi-Fiat 46
8 Lucio de Sanctis I de Sanctis-Fiat 42

Also, on May 9, 1959, at the Grand prix de Monaco Junior, he finished 6th driving a Stanguellini-Fiat behind Michel May, Giovanni Alberti, Juan Manuel Bordeu,Lorenzo Bandini and Ernst Lautenschlager. All were driving the Stanguellini-Fiat except for Bandini who was in a Volpini Fiat.
Warren

[Lotus23]

Forgive me if this falls into the Stupid Question category, but I've never heard of the Peter Carpenter (USA) mentioned in two of those results.

Has he been discussed before?

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
One of the least famous 'customers' of a famous British marque - might anyone have a competition record on either two wheels or four for the Frenchman, Roger Revol, circa 1960-1961???

DCN

further stupid question time. The poetically-named RR seems to have had a less than dramatic career in FJ in 58/59...particularly compared to the Argentinian Bordeu ( who was mentored by a fellow-countryman called Fangio ). He then seems to have become less "famous" ..I have no record of him on 2,4 6 or any other number of wheels beyond this time. Was he perchance related to Roger Rabbit ?

..and the "famous British marque" ? Stanguellini had their HQ in Modena I think..somewhat south of the English Channel I reckon. So what was the British connection..? a Cooper perhaps. Replies awaited..and what happened to the Momo Mirage ?

[Rob29]

Try BRM. He was entered for the 1961 Oulton Park Gold Cup,but I remember searching the paddock on my first ever visit to the circuit in vain for a blue BRM. At that time I had never heard of him,Italian FJ results being hard to find,or since. Does anyone know if if he ever took delivery of a car?

[WGD706]

Bill
A brief attempt was made by Stanguellini to build a road-going GT car for the US market, the Momo Mirage (financed by Mr.Momo), but only about four prototypes were made (plus a half-built spider) before the project sank.
http://www.velocityj...p/org/3952.html
Warren

[WGD706]

Lotus23
The only info I can find on Peter Carpenter is that he was entered by Scuderia Madunina, which also entered the Italian F3 champions in 1961-1963 (Geki Russo ) and in 1966 with Ernesto Brambilla . They also entered Lorenzo Bandini in the Formula Junior (F3) series in '59.
Oh yes, they also ran a little known driver in the 1957 Grand Prix of Cuba by the name of Juan Manuel Fangio.
Also, Antonio Ascari,Son of Alberto Ascari and Maria Antonietta Tavola,became "Overall Champion of Italy" after he raced for 2 years for Scuderia Madunina, driving a Foglietti-Holbay F3.
As far as Peter Carpenter, I'm afraid that he has faded into history.

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by WGD706


Also, on May 9, 1959, at the Grand prix de Monaco Junior, he finished 6th driving a Stanguellini-Fiat behind Michel May, Giovanni Alberti, Juan Manuel Bordeu,Lorenzo Bandini and Ernst Lautenschlager. All were driving the Stanguellini-Fiat except for Bandini who was in a Volpini Fiat.
Warren

Thanks for the results WD40. I always appreciate these.

But I should point out a recurring misspelling of a driver's name.

"Michel May" should read "MICHAEL May", as I have pointed out eslewhere. I have met him, and I asked him for the correct spelling, just to make sure. Such a multi-talented man deserves to have his name spelled the right way.

As for Roger Revol and Peter Carpenter, I am not aware of having read of them before, but I have to say I am impressed with their results in such good company listed here,

I would be happy to have '6th place GP de Monaco Junior just a little behind Lorenzo Bandini' on my resume.

[David McKinney]

Carpenter also raced in the 12/12/59 Sebring FJ race, but was unplaced, and in the 28/2/60 race at Havana, when he was fifth (second Part One, 11th Part Two)

[john medley]

US driver Peter Carpenter is used by DSJ as an example of how Giambertone's Scuderia Madunina operated in 'Some Thoughts on Formula Junior', 'Motor Sport' December 1959: young,bought a Stanguellini FJ, couldnt speak or write Italian so couldnt negotiate with race promoters,had little mechanical knowledge,had no way to transport the Stanguellini,had little money, but just wanted to race in Italy for the year, so.......According to DSJ,Scuderia Madunina's tending/watering/manuring Carpenter's (and others') Stanguellini and the American cadging a lift or catching a train to race meetings allowed Carpenter to race all season,more than break even(living on' the residue of his starting money and his winnings if he drove well , which he often did'), and ,it would appear, allow him to take the Stanguellini back to the USA at the end of the year to race there.
Should have been every boy's story.

[WGD706]

Here's a link to some photos of a 1959 STANGUELLINI - FORMULA JUNIOR
Chassis number #00148#, from August 24 1959, this superb example has been fully restored to the highest standards 3 years ago by its current owner who is a also a well known specialists. The car has been kept in its original condition, all numbers match, full history is known, won races, immediately available and located in USA. Many spare parts available. $59,000
http://www.carclassi...m/html/CW38.htm

[bill moffat]

I think DCN owes us a clue. Rob 29 has a memory of RR being entered for the '61 Gold Cup which I seem to recall was won by Stirling Moss in a converted tractor. Doug's curiosity is presumably born (Bourne?) out by the fact that Mr. Revol was a BRM customer; so did he take delivery of the car ( I suspect not), did he race it and where is it now ?

[Ian McKean]

Originally posted by WGD706

...Also, on May 9, 1959, at the Grand prix de Monaco Junior, he finished 6th driving a Stanguellini-Fiat behind Michel May, Giovanni Alberti, Juan Manuel Bordeu,Lorenzo Bandini and Ernst Lautenschlager. All were driving the Stanguellini-Fiat except for Bandini who was in a Volpini Fiat.
Warren

I wonder if Ernst Lautenschlager was related to Christian Lautenschlager who won the 1914 French Grand Prix! Anyone...?

[sat]

IRC he was grandson?

[WGD706]

Christian Lautenschlager was born in Magstadt, Germany (district of Böblingen) on April 13, 1877 and died January 3, 1954 at 76 years of age in his sleep in Fellbach near Stuttgart.
It's possible that Ernst was his grandson.

[dretceterini]

The American designer Gene Garfinkle was involved with the design of the Momo-Mirage, but unfortunately Gene passed away about 2 years ago.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by dretceterini
The American designer Gene Garfinkle ....

Or was that Art Garfinkle .... or Finkle Farkle .... or Ferd Berfel ....

Say goodnight Dick ...

(Sorry - just having a Rowan & Martin moment: it will pass ....)

Veerrryyy interesting ...... but STUPID!!

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by bill moffat
I think DCN owes us a clue. Rob 29 has a memory of RR being entered for the '61 Gold Cup which I seem to recall was wom by Stirling Moss in a converted tractor. Doug's curiosity is presumably born (Bourne?) out by the fact that Mr. Revol was a BRM customer; so did he take delivery of the car ( I suspect not), did he race it and where is it now ?

Sorry pardon - modem computer internet-linkage thingie lunched itself - now back on line, and found the above from Bill, apologies, apologies.

Revol was indeed entered in a BRM at Oulton Park - it's a a celebrated F1 Register-style obscure mystery entry -

I have never found any team paperwork in connection with this, nobody involved at the time seems to recall such a deal - the car has to have ben (notionally) a retired works P48 (the originally 2 1/2-litre 4-cylinder rear-engined model) - a sister presumably to Tony Marsh's car with which he won the Lewis-Evans Trophy F1 race at Brands Hatch that October (using a Climax FPF 1 1/2-litre 4-cyl engine). I'm pretty sure this would have been a deal floated - if at all - via BP France who later funded Trintignant's purchase of the ex-Graham Hill P578 'Old Faithful' for the 1964 season. It didn't work out...reasons unknown.

Interestingly, one pale French-blue BRM did emerge soon after - as Phil Scragg's half-season stopgap hill-climb mount, the true P48 Mark II, while he awaited delivery of the front-engined Chaparral-Chevrolet that he'd ordered from Jim Hall. SCragg's own preferred colour was pale blue, but was the BRM already liveried in that manner BEFORE he agreed to buy it. He of course died in that terrible Silverstone sprint accident, and his son was killed in a road accident next day - an accident certainly not unconected with Scragg Jr being so grief-stricken at his bereavement...a terribly sad story.

When the Chaparral had finally arrived, Phil Scragg sold the pale-blue BRM to Tony Griffiths...and that's the car preserved today at Donington, Tony having sold it direct to Tom Wheatcroft after his 2 1/2-seasons' or so use.

I hope you blokes don't object to an alleged pro such as myself coming to you with such queries...but your fund of shared knowledge and memory is fantastic as the colleague I have never had... I'm trying to give back as much as I take out.

DCN

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


I'm trying to give back as much as I take out.

DCN

I think TNF is well ahead on the deal so far, Doug.

[Roger Clark]

Autosport's preview theweek before the race said a BRM was to be driven by Roger Rerot "of whom wedo not wot"

[Jimmy Piget]

I'm 95% certain that Roger revol also entered French & Swiss hillclimbs around 1960-1963, but i don't own records to strengthen this assumption.

To add to the mystery, may I confess that a handful of years ago I have written to all the people called "Revol" in the Nice & Côte d'azur area and registered in the Telephone directory, asking if they were a relative of this Roger Revol, racing driver.
To my own disappointment, the one and only person to answer was an angry man, giving me the order to keep his mother-in-law quiet (a Mrs Revol) for she had nothing in common with this so-called driver !

BTW, Christian Lautenschlager could well be the father of Ernst — the latter yet raced in domestic F2 events around 1953. That giving a gap of about 50-55 years between Christian and Ernst. So, father or grand-father ? (remember that Maurice Trintignant had a son — Morgan — when largely in his '70s...)

Jimmy

[mikeallen]

The infamous BRM was captured by Graham Heath on the first practice day for the Gold Cup in 1961. It didn't run and was quietly packed away in the afternoon and never seen again. I have a copy of the photo but cannot for the life of me see how to upload it

[Tim Murray]

I have a copy of the photo but cannot for the life of me see how to upload it

Mike, the photo needs to be uploaded to a website, yours if you have one or one of the image-hosting sites - Postimage is very straightforward to use. Alternatively I’d be happy to post it for you. If interested, let me know and I’ll PM you an email address.

[ReWind]

Two years ago - on 30 April 2018 - a Frenchman called Roger Revol (b. 1933) died.
Source
Could well be the subject of this thread.
 
Another candidate is Roger Aimé René Revol, b. 12 April 1926, d. 05 November 2003.

[Macca]

I mentioned in another thread that the blue BRM featured in a dream sequence in the 1962 comedy film 'The Fast Lady', shot at Silverstone apparently in late 1961 - here are some poor-quality grabs from YouTube 

 

  

 

I don't know who was driving it, but Graham Hill and John Surtees had cameos.

 

 

Paul M

[mikeallen]

Tim, yes please, struggling with this

[Tim Murray]

Posted on Mike’s behalf:

[Rupertlt1]

Support FJ, I Gran Premio automobilistico di Messina, 23 August 1959, 120 kms

 

"L'Americano Peter

Carpenter, che guidava una

Stanguellini, è finito contro

un muro mentre curvava e

ha riportato ferite guaribili

in sette giorni."

La Stampa, 24 August 1959

 

http://www.the-fastl...la2/FJ59_28.htm

 

What number was Peter Carpenter in Cuba 1960?

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 13 May 2020 - 14:49.

[nexfast]

Carpenter was n. 30. There is a good picture of him in Joel E. Finn, "Caribbean Capers"

[Rupertlt1]

Ref Carpenter #30 see:

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT