36 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

You see, I have this problem. The more I learn about Enzo Ferrari, the less I think I like the man.

Of course I admire his single-minded devotion to maintaining his beloved red cars at the front of whatever racing category he took part in, but..... The way he played driver off against driver and the way he treated some drivers, as well as his attitude to his old cars, however successful, makes me feel just a little uncomfortable.

Deep down I feel almost disloyal but I'm afraid I don't think I like him very much.

What do others think?

[scheivlak]

First "kneejerk" reaction: never liked him at all, but I was and I am very grateful he's been around.

[Vitesse2]

I think you and I are pretty much of one mind Barry. I can't confess to being a Ferrari team fan, because I never have been - Enzo always seemed to work on the "divide and rule" principle, perhaps on the grounds that if any of his lieutenants got too powerful they might usurp him: by setting them against each other, he stayed at the helm. The unfortunate by-product was that Ferrari was like an Italian opera most of the time - noisy, chaotic and no-one knew what was going on!

Nevertheless I respect his record over more than fifty years - a very shrewd operator, but just a little too ruthless for my taste ....

[dretceterini]

Seem to me Ferrari was a smart and rather ruthless man...not different than a lot of people that are successful in business.

[Doug Nye]

I was taught that Maserati were to like - Ferrari was to respect...at arm's length.

DCN

[masterhit]

I don't envy the fact that he had the Italian press to deal with. My gut reaction (and it is very much one of ignorance I'm afraid) is that Enzo was an incredibly complex man. I'm not sure. It's not as if I ever spoke to him. His book was titled "My terrible joys" - I think that gives an idea of how troubled he was and how the ghosts of the past haunted him. The title suggests that even in victory, what it had taken to get there bothered him - death of his son etc. It does not fit into the model of someone who was a tyrant as such, but equally I can imagine that if you crossed him his opinions and moods would be capricious. Blowing hot and cold, perhaps. All I can suggest is that a top job is not an easy one. There are others who wish to push you out irrespective of who you are. Everybody is answerable to somebody else. Its a big like accepting the ring of power in The Lord of The Rings. Power corrupts us all.

The same capriciousness though, could be said of say, Patrick Head and Frank Williams. Its that crazed personal need to prove yourself, that internal fire that got them were they are to begin with.

In short, like Willams and Head, like Chapman, like Jack Brabham, I find myself fascinated and want to read more.

It is also worth noting that for some time Frank Williams and Patrick Head, amongst others, had wondered how Ferrari the team would work it only it were managed properly. Well, it took 12 years from Enzo's Ferrari's death for success to truly come their way once more.

The story of Enzo Ferrari and what he achieved is a remarkable one - but it equally could be the ruining of many a person's career. Much like modern day Jaguar.

Even his beloved Gilles Villeneuve faced the sack at one stage. In Alan Jones' book, he mentioned that he had been approached by Ferrari with a view to him replacing Gilles. Alan wanted assurances that he would get a championship winning car. The negotiations continued - Enzo said basically that Gilles needed to tame himself and stop crashing - if Gilles did not finish the next race - Dijon '79, the job was Alan's. Well obviously Gilles made his job secure that weekend and the rest is history, but it had been that close. Such was Enzo.

Fascinating, baffling, frightening, amusing and infuriating - how Enzo went from being a driver of an Alfa Romeo to founding one of the most successful Formula one teams of all time is an incredible story.

[Mark Beckman]

Dont know, never spent a week with the man.

How many of you have ?

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Mark Beckman
Dont know, never spent a week with the man.

How many of you have ?

This is true. In work I am a cold fish, because in a work environment you have to try to be consistent with everyone or else you are showing favouritism. So that means unfortunately that noone gets close.

So if you asked work colleagues about me they would say "oh he's alright" but nothing more.

When I go home, I'm me. I hug my wife to bits. Maybe Enzo was like this too. The corporate entity we have to be to earn money is different from the human being we can be outside of a business.

If you have favourites there is an unfortunate tendency to be disliked by others outside of the circle and if they are really nasty, they will try to get you out. Sad but true. First mistake that they see, the ambitious bitter ones will moan to the boss and try to have you given a verbal warning.

Also if you make good friends with work colleagues it is unprofessional - for it affects your objectivity. I know a mate who had this happen - when he subsequently found that his "friend" had went to their superior and said awful things to try to make their superior give a verbal warning (three strikes and you are out) it devastated him.

Frank Williams and Colin Chapman and Enzo all got close to drivers against their better instincts. all seen those drivers they cared for die. It is bound to make you an externally cold prickly pear.
"Never again" I'm sure they said.

[Don Capps]

Well, tricky question: on the few times that I met him, he seemed to be a very nice man and treated me quite well considering that I was basically just a "pit urchin." He seemed quite a lively man, but then again this is from a perspective of over four decades.

As to "liking" the man, well, for reasons doing as much to do with becoming a cynic at an early age as with any objectivity, I have never been a Ferrari "fan" although I have been quite taken with the Scuderia at times. I was (am?) a "Maserati Man" and tended to pick Maserati over Ferrari whenever the choice was there. The same for Porsche and others later on. But, I never truly disliked the Scuderia although it could give you headaches and heartburn to no end over some of the silly things they would do -- dumping John Surtees being one of them very high on my list.

So did I "like" Enzo Ferrari? Nope, but more along the lines of what Doug said, I respected him but at a distance since his "style" was simply too out of synch with my own.

[Arturo Pereira]

I did not like the way he treated his drivers.

Arturo

[Gary Davies]

This from Lauda in For the Record. It covers the aftermath of his loss of the '76 championship: "I telephoned Enzo Ferrari and had the most decisive talk in all my four years with Ferrari. What did this mean? I asked. (The bringing in of Reutemann) Well, he said, since I (Lauda) had made a wrong decision, all decisions henceforward were to come from him, he would take it in hand himself. Wrong decision, what did he mean? Monza, he said, I shouldn't have raced at Monza. If I had missed the race because of my accident we should have missed the world championship in a way that would have looked better. I was utterly furious ... I slammed the receiver down.

"A little later Ghedini rang up, full of complaints. The Old Man is raging, everything is finished, he's chucking you out.

" ... when the Old Man said Monza, he meant Fuji. If at Fuji I had driven like an angel through the water, everything would have been grand. "

" ... When I think over the whole picture, including the Nurburgring, and when I add the quite special pressures on Niki Lauda in that autumn of 1976 and look back on it all, I can't see one iota of a possibility of it being fair to punish me for Fuji."

Now I don't hold a candle for Lauda, but is not the above passage the very essence of Enzo Ferrari?

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Don Capps
-- dumping John Surtees being one of them very high on my list.

So did I "like" Enzo Ferrari? Nope, but more along the lines of what Doug said, I respected him but at a distance since his "style" was simply too out of synch with my own.

But when you read Alan Jones version of Surtees the man suddenly you see there may be other reasons that you are unaware of.

I agree with masterhit, my Boss at work is stern and rarely says 3 words in a week to anybody, today I met him socially after I invited myself to look at the Dirt Kart racing he does and I found a completely different person.

You Guys are judging a man on a very narrow field of vision.

[ensign14]

I wonder whether Enzo had read his Herodotus? The Greek historian described how King Darius of Persi created a myth around himself in order to make people think that the position of 'king' was not for mere mortal men, so he rarely appeared in public, communicated through intermediaries all the time &c &c. Things like his black office with Dino shrine make me think Enzo was putting on some sort of act to add to the Ferrari mystique. If so, it worked a treat.

[fines]

Simple question, simple answer: no - but then again, I have never been a Ferrari tifoso. Haven't even read one Ferrari book (the "myth" actually puts me off), so I don't know much about him. I can't exclude the possibility of liking him from the bits and pieces I've read, but it simply wasn't enough.

And I must disagree with the masterhit theory, that you have to be different in professional life. If your job corrupts your personality, then you simply have to change jobs - there's no way money should be more important than character!

[Barry Boor]

To start with, I have to admit that I have not read "My Terrible Joys"; however, from what I have absorbed over 45 years of watching, reading and sleeping Motor Sport, I feel that many of Signor Ferrari's 'terrible joys' were brought about by his own actions.

My knowledge is not that of a true tifosi or indeed a Ferrari fan of any sort, but was it not pressure from the top that indirectly caused the deaths of Castellotti, Musso, Behra and maybe more?

I suppose in business you have to put people under pressure to get the best out of them but Ferrari does not seem to have been a great man manager.

I appreciate the comment about never have met the man but any public figure is going to be judged on what we see, hear and read and whether or not he went home and hugged his wife or kicked his cat, doesn't change the perception I have of him as a person.

Respect - definitely, but that is all.....

But then again, he probably wouldn't have liked me much, either! :

[Doug Nye]

Respect, not affection - The Old Man was good to me too, giving his time to talk about yesterday, when the only thing that interested him was always today and tomorrow, but to appreciate the essence of the man, consider Phil Hill's recollection: "He always kept the fire stoked under the cooking pot into which all we young drivers willingly jumped..." - or the telegram to Clay Regazzoni on the eve of the 1976 Austrian GP, after Lauda's Nurburgring injuries had left Clay as Ferrari's sole representative: "Regazzoni - Drive as you normally would. Think not for one moment that the entire honour of Italy and the future of Ferrari rests solely on your shoulders".



DCN

[fines]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
or the telegram to Clay Regazzoni on the eve of the 1976 Austrian GP, after Lauda's Nurburgring injuries had left Clay as Ferrari's sole representative: "Regazzoni - Drive as you normally would. Think not for one moment that the entire honour of Italy and the future of Ferrari rests solely on your shoulders".

Jeez, they weren't even there! Dutch GP, perhaps?

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Respect, not affection - The Old Man was good to me too, giving his time to talk about yesterday, when the only thing that interested him was always today and tomorrow, but to appreciate the essence of the man, consider Phil Hill's recollection: "He always kept the fire stoked under the cooking pot into which all we young drivers willingly jumped..." - or the telegram to Clay Regazzoni on the eve of the 1976 Austrian GP, after Lauda's Nurburgring injuries had left Clay as Ferrari's sole representative: "Regazzoni - Drive as you normally would. Think not for one moment that the entire honour of Italy and the future of Ferrari rests solely on your shoulders".



DCN

Yikes!

What was the comment he allegedly made to Johansson? Wasn't it something like "go back to the wilderness where you belong"

[Doug Nye]

Ha!!! I wondered who would spot that first. Just fallen out of my basket, Michael, eyes not yet unglued, etc - Dutch will indeed do....

DCN

[Paul Parker]

There is quite a body of anecdotal evidence plus the comments of many and varied persons over the years to condemn Enzo Ferrari.

Carroll Shelby for one had a view of EF that is not repeatable in polite company. The problem is of course that like all such dominant personalities il Commendatore was surrounded by a certain number of sycophants and bootlickers who told him what he wanted to hear. Additionally his policy for most of his post war life never to attend a race other than the Mille Miglia and Monza practice will have exacerbated his tendency to blame his drivers for lack of results and/or speed. He had to rely upon others to keep him informed, never a good idea. For instance if we are to believe the printed word he insisted that Castellotti be woken from his sleep to drive to Modena in March 1957 to reclaim the circuit record because Behra had set a new fastest time in a works Maserati 250F. The end result of course was fatal. Or the de Portago tragedy in that same year in the Mille Miglia when he goaded the Spaniard to drive faster because he was being outpaced by Gendebien's slower 250GT, resulted in 'Fon' not changing his tyres to save time and as a result one burst and caused the death of many spectators as well as the driver and poor Gurner Nelson.

Essentially despite appearances and the accepted Latin stereotype, Ferrari was not a sentimental man, he did not pay his drivers properly and apparently regarded most of them, but not all, as commodities. To succeed in professional motor racing, or indeed in most professions, even 50 years ago, you had to be a hard man and Enzo certainly fits the bill. He has many latter day counterparts, although the politics, bureaucracy, safety concerns, technology, commercial sponsorship and media coverage make it harder today for any one man to be an island. The ultimate conclusion must be that motor racing would have been the poorer without him and his (sometimes) fabulous cars.

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
There is quite a body of anecdotal evidence plus the comments of many and varied persons over the years to condemn Enzo Ferrari.

Carroll Shelby for one had a view of EF that is not repeatable in polite company. The problem is of course that like all such dominant personalities il Commendatore was surrounded by a certain number of sycophants and bootlickers who told him what he wanted to hear. Additionally his policy for most of his post war life never to attend a race other than the Mille Miglia and Monza practice will have exacerbated his tendency to blame his drivers for lack of results and/or speed. He had to rely upon others to keep him informed, never a good idea. For instance if we are to believe the printed word he insisted that Castellotti be woken from his sleep to drive to Modena in March 1957 to reclaim the circuit record because Behra had set a new fastest time in a works Maserati 250F. The end result of course was fatal. Or the de Portago tragedy in that same year in the Mille Miglia when he goaded the Spaniard to drive faster because he was being outpaced by Gendebien's slower 250GT, resulted in 'Fon' not changing his tyres to save time and as a result one burst and caused the death of many spectators as well as the driver and poor Gurner Nelson.

Essentially despite appearances and the accepted Latin stereotype, Ferrari was not a sentimental man, he did not pay his drivers properly and apparently regarded most of them, but not all, as commodities. To succeed in professional motor racing, or indeed in most professions, even 50 years ago, you had to be a hard man and Enzo certainly fits the bill. He has many latter day counterparts, although the politics, bureaucracy, safety concerns, technology, commercial sponsorship and media coverage make it harder today for any one man to be an island. The ultimate conclusion must be that motor racing would have been the poorer without him and his (sometimes) fabulous cars.

Well I must say this rings true! Lauda said pretty much the same thing about Ferrari in "To Hell And Back" as you did in the first part of your post. If I recall correctly (which I often don't!) he sometimes felt a ratlike pity for The Old Man, because he really didn't have a clue what was going on. Edit - Vanwall also said pretty much this much more eloquently than me and with proper quotations earlier in this thread.

[jarama]

Originally posted by Paul Parker
Or the de Portago tragedy in that same year in the Mille Miglia when he goaded the Spaniard to drive faster because he was being outpaced by Gendebien's slower 250GT, resulted in 'Fon' not changing his tyres to save time and as a result one burst and caused the death of many spectators as well as the driver and poor Gurner Nelson.

[/B]

Paul,

wasn't Eddy (or Eddie) Nelson? Or was Gurner his real name?

Carles.

[Paul Parker]

To Jarama. As far as I am aware de Portago's co-driver was Edmund Gurner Nelson, an American journalist who was somewhat older than the Spanish aristocrat. He was if I recall correctly a friend and companion who accompanied 'Fon' on his various pursuits including the Cresta Run and similar daredevil escapades. The use of Gurner appears in older literature such as Duncan Hamilton's autobiography 'Touch Wood'.

[jarama]

Thankyou, Paul,

I was aware of the first name as Edmund (or Eddy, Eddie, etc) but not the second being Gurner. One always learn something in TNF.

Carles.

[Jordi #99]

Having been born 3 years before his death, I can only refer to opinions..

Jody Scheckter said that he always sent him a fax after the races, but that a lot of people talked to him before and after. He had lots of "ministers" that told him too much things, probably...

Enzo's certainly a mythical figure in racing history...

[dmj]

I always liked Enzo Ferrari.

But then, my name is Dino...

[masterhit]

Equally, if a team manager is really good value having dinner or in a quiet corner talking to a journalist, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is not still a snake oil salesman. In sales terms, he could be "closing"us, winning us over, but underneath they are pretty hard bastards business wise.

Its fine so long as the results are good. But if you have done things right ninety nine times and on the hundredth you make a mistake, you mess up their plans and their figures, I'll be damned if they don't treat you with the same contempt as the snot nosed idiot who made the mistake the first time !!!!!!

I make the mistake of being distracted by the glamour and the fast projectiles and derring do. I forget that they are politicians. I long ago decided never to vote because "they are all the same".

It is no longer a sport. A Hillclimb is a sport. Sports are an amateur profession. This is why we love the underachievers, for they did not get sullied and tainted by real success and its trappings. As soon as it got bigger, it became a substitute for war, commercial exercise. They will do what it takes.

There is too much money involved, too huge a gap in earnings between those in charge and their staff and too many people employed for it to be anything other than impersonal.

As William Burroughs once said - a whore who says she is not interested in the money is lying. She wants more money.

Mike Lawrence made a great comment about corporations which is relevant for all areas of corporate life. It happened to be about publishers but could equally be banks, lawyers, patent agents, debt recovery, polticians or team managers. It is a skeptical but brilliant observation of corporate life. It is quoted from an "interview" with his wondrous creation, Turk Thrust, creator of the Formula One Script Unit (FOSU). (Source: Pitpass.com)

"I guess that I am one of the luckiest guys in the world because Turk Thrust has taken to me. We are in the library of the stately home which Turk has taken until the pheasant slaughtering season begins. Turk looks around and says, "Books? Who needs 'em?"

As a writer of books, and as one who lives in penury, I am forced to agree. Writers of books on motor racing have to deal with publishers and publishers all have a tearful tale to tell. I cannot help but notice that publishers all drive more expensive cars than I drive and they all live in larger houses, but what tales of their struggle and poverty they have to tell."

Whether it is Williams, Stoddart, De Montezemelo, you just happen to be a cog in their machine.

P.S. Apologies for the bleak nature of this post

[Wolf]

I think the best description might be Fangio's advice to Moss, when Enzo offered him, before the '62 season, to drive for him- take the car (Sharknose), but don't drive for the team...;) And in the same vein, when, after Goodwood crash, red Ferrari with a green stripe was driven by Innes.

All being said, I think on his death bed Enzo could've summoned just about anyone and have said "Look, I've forgotten more about motor-racing than you'll ever know", but I don't think he was particularly likeable. He's seen all my three favourite drivers and got them all (almost) to drive for him.

[Arturo Pereira]

To put it simply ... for Enzo Ferrari, if the devil drove one of his cars and won, after taking out all the field, it would be ok ......... only if the devil would have accepted to drive for him for free. This is the best picture I could get of that man "after all this years".

Arturo

PS1: sure the F1 would have never been the same without him .... it could have been better and some drivers would have died in a bed.

PS2: Maserati was much better than Ferrari till the late 50s. Sadly it could not last

[ian senior]

I have long since held similar views to Barry, and have not previously exposed them in public for fear of being accused of heresy. What was Enzo, apart from a manipulator of men? Any contributions he made to the development of racing cars (and road cars, come to that) were at the hand of the designers and engineers he employed. Enzo's own contribution? Not much really. Played the game to suit himself, long before it became fashonable - remember all those withdrawals from the sport, sometimes threatened, sometimes actual, because things wren't going his way? I don't deny that he loved racing and cars. But I cannot help putting him into the near charlatan category. Sorry!

[Jordi #99]

Well that's true. Enzo was probably the first man in racing (correct me if I'm wrong) to use politics to get his objectives. Like painting the cars in the NART colors in 1961, or building a CART Ferrari in 1987 to make pressure...

Maybe he was horrible with some of his drivers, but he's the biggest, most recognizable figure in racing ever (in management terms)

[BorsariG]

BARRY, BARRY, BARRY,

you are asking "ME" that question !! !???

wassa matta you ?

Of course I like Enzo ! I did only meet him once, but it was in his sanctum sanctorium at Fiorano and I was really sorry that I couldn't understand Italian at the time.

I did have a translator and we had a pleasant half hour or so, i can't really remember.

We were treated to some of the "house' wine, and then he asked if we would like to take pictures. I was so shocked I said no, cause i didn'twant to bother him. but he said it was ok. I'll tell you the truth, he was like a grandfather to me that day.

He also answered all the cards I ever sent him, and was extremely generous with gifts to me over the years.

so . . . ..

hey, you never know what "stars" are like until you meet them, and if you meet them on a good day, you like them, and the opposite is jsut as true!

So put me in the YES !! column


Valsi

[Barry Boor]

I KNEW this one was coming eventually.

I have known Vals' story for years.

You are in a very small minority, my friend.

I think the difference is that you are judging him on a personal basis (and quite rightly too, I may add) whereas most of the rest of us are looking at a much bigger picture....

[Keith Booker]

Franco Gozzi in his recently published 'Memoirs of Enzo Ferrari's Lieutenant' recalls Enzo's press conference in 1984 when a journalist had the gall to ask an unscripted question. It related to the appearance of Marboro stickers bearing the drivers name which appeared just behind the cockpit for the first time. The question was:

"How do you explain the presenence of cigarette advertising on your cars, Ferrari, you have always said that you would only accept the technical advertising of the manufacturers who to contribute to their progress?"

Enzo's answer: "Because dear, friend, Marboro pays our drivers and we consider drivers accessories of the cars".

There are a number of interesting anecdotes in a book that I imagine will have mixed reviews. Has anyone else read the book?

[Vilcornell]

...I like him more that his cars....

[Bladrian]

The man loved his cars, and his son, to distraction. He can't have been all bad ......

[marion5drsn]

Did you LIKE Enzo Ferrari?

The more I read about him on this postings the less I like him! M.L. Anderson