42 replies to this topic

[Roger Clark]

I'm interested in the methods used to time motor races and the way those methods changed over the years. I think of there having been three generations of timekeeping. THe first is hand operated stop watches. The second is semi-automated with the car breaking a beam to record a time but relying on human observation to note which car it was. The third is the fully automated system we see today where every car carries a device to identify itself to the time keeping equipment and no human intervention is required at all. These groupings are probably over-simplified but they may help as a framework to identify developments.

I know that it is only in recent years that standard systems have been used to time all Formula 1 races and that previously each organiser used their own methods. I also know that in the 60s and 70s the teams had their own personnel, often drivers' wives, timing practice and the races. They often felt sufficiently confident in these times to challenge the organisers' times, suggesting that the accuracy achieved by the organisers was not great.

THere is the famous story of Brambilla gainng pole position at the Swedish Grand PRix when Robin HErd walked in front of the timing beam just before the March crossed the line. If this story has any credibility at all, and it has been questioned, then the Swedish race must have been using the second method of my first paragraph.

One of the most famous methods were the egg timers or calenndars used by British organisers, resulting in seven drivers being credited with equal fastest lap in the 1954 British GP. Yet, I remember a Motor Sport article by Denis Jenkinson on the mid 70s, I think. He explained that the timekeeping was done by professionals from one of the goverment research laboratories, and not by the legendary "men in blazers". Their timing was to the same accracy as any other race, but they chose to issue times only to the nearest fifth. Although it was easy to time a single car to a much greater degree of accuracy, it was not possible to do so when cars were running in a bunch. AS they couldn't gurantee all times to a hundredth of a second (or whatever), they preferred to issue them all at a level they could be confident about. They were not less competent than other timekeepers, just more honest.

[fines]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I know that it is only in recent years that standard systems have been used to time all Formula 1 races and that previously each organiser used their own methods.

Not quite so recent, it started in 1982 with the Longines/Olivetti partnership!

[Lotus23]

Interesting thread. I still have my Heuer handheld mechanical split-hand stop watch from 1960; it looks -- and sounds -- very much like the one which opens the U.S. TV show "60 Minutes".

I recall being told that the highest degree of accuracy one could achieve with such a hand-held watch was 0.1 sec, even if the watch could read to 0.01 sec. My own experience seemed to bear this out. IIRC, there were some folks (Judy Stropus of Penske comes to mind) who could perform feats of absolute wizardry timing a large number of cars using a single split-hand watch. On a good day, I was lucky to keep up with 3 or 4 cars.

I can recall a buddy of mine running SCCA races in the early 60s where folks turned in their OWN times, and those times were used for setting up the grid! Needless to say, a number of pole-sitters were quickly blown into the weeds by others who'd been more honest! I don't think that system lasted very long!

[Roger Clark]

It was disappointing that this thread generated so little interest. Accurate timekeepining is vital to motor racing and members of this forum rightly place great imnportance on the accuracy of records.

Trying again, I found this in the 1961 Autosport preview of Le Mans:

Soon the IBM electronic computers disgorge the final information sheets. For 24 hours these incredible machines have been feeding accurate times and race positions to entrants, officials and Press. Without their help, many hours would elapse before official positions could be issued. Known as the IBM 305 RAMAC equipment it has revolutionised time-keeping and the issuing of information for all major sprting events.

Can anybody tell me more about this equipment, what it did and how widely it was used?

[Leif Snellman]

I think one has to separate the ability to take accurate times from the williness of the officials to use that ability. Several tracks including Tripoli had the equipment to at least theoretically take times down to 1/100s back in the 1930s.

You can compare that to the Olympic Games. I Stockholm 1912 there was a fully functional system to take times with 1/100s accuricy but the Olympic Committee rather prefered to trust 70-80 years old fellows sitting on a ladder near the finish line with stopwatches in their shaking hands, so for the next 60 years "testing" the electrical equipment continued until it was finally approved for official use in 1972.

Now I remember sometimes in the mid 1970s that the Ferrari as the first team the first that brought their own electrical time equipment to the races. Someone in the Team Lotus (Southgate? Warr?) asked Chapman if they couldn't buy a similar equipment. Colin's sarcastic answer: "If we do, do you really think our cars will go faster then?"

But soon other teams (including McLaren) indeed joined Ferrari's idea of using their own equipment. Once, at the US GP I think, Autosport wrote that: "The teams published times that made the official times look like being taken with a Mickey Mouse watch!"

[Phil Harms]

Timing goes back to the very first days of racing. Charlie Warner probably developed the first timing and scoring system and it was used for the first Indpls 500. It used a taunt trip wire that was stretched across the start-finish line and as each car passed it depressed the wire. The wire was connected to a hammer that made an imprint on an adding machine type paper. Wheels with numbers spun at 1/10th and 1/100th second beneath an inked ribbon. The timer manually wrote in the car numbers. It was quite accurate for a few laps but errors built up over a 7 hour 500 mile race.

In 1911 the Herb Lytle wreck broke the wire and timing was done with stop watches until a new wire could be restrung. And thus the conspiracy theory of who won Indpls was born --- it seems that Ray Harroun made great progress driving the Indianapolis built Marmon while the race was hand timed. Ralph Mulford went to his grave convinced that he won the first 500.

At some point a photo-cell replaced the trip wire.

At hill climbs, point-to-point races, etc. the telegraph was used to accurately transfer the start to a remote finishing location.

Electronic timing as we know it today was probably first used at Ontario Speedway in 1970. This involved each car being equipted with a transponder transmitting a unique code or frequency. A buried antenna at the S/F line detected the unigue signature of each car. The technique is used today with CART and IRL; I assume European racing uses a similar technique.

The Indianapolis Speedway museum has (or at least had) an interesting display showing the progress of timing and scoring from 1911 to the present.

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
THere is the famous story of Brambilla gainng pole position at the Swedish Grand PRix when Robin HErd walked in front of the timing beam just before the March crossed the line. If this story has any credibility at all, and it has been questioned, then the Swedish race must have been using the second method of my first paragraph.

I was there at almost all the Swedish Grands Prix in the 70s. But I heard this story only much later. In those days, I think that the timing system wasn't much in focus.

However, there's a peculiarity about this anecdote. The Anderstorp track had the pits halfway around the track, far from the S/F line. (This was because the S/F line had to be moved when the races were bigger than club races, or something like that.) Now, the team members were always located in the pits, and it was a bit boring to sit at the grandstands at the S/F line to see start and finish, but no pit activity. Of course it was a minor thing because there were no pitstops then. But on practice days, the grandstands were not the place to be.

Now to the big question. A lap time should have been measured at the S/F line. But the pit crews, with wives and girlfriends and stopwatches were elsewhere. If Herd really tripped the clock, was he at the S/F line, or were lap times recorded for pit-to-pit laps?

[fines]

DOHC, we've had that before. For a number of reasons (and the s/f-line away from the pits is one most convincing argument...) this pitboard story is nothing but a myth. Probably invented by the March staff anyway, tongue-in-cheek.

[DOHC]

Yes I remember there was a discussion, but was it confirmed that lap times were taken at the S/F line? This is just a matter of whether the Herd myth was about tripping the clock far away from the pits, where there was indeed greater possibilities to manipulate the system without anybody noticing.

[Pete Stowe]

If it’s ok can we go slightly off the original topic and also consider speed events, and even Land Speed Records, as well as races. Not having to consider lap scoring & a number cars running together, it was obviously a slightly different problem, with start and finish being at different locations, but easier to start automating, so some devices would have had regular use here before they were applied to racing.

In November 1945 the use of photo-electric timing by the BAC Motor Sports Club at their Filton Speed Trials was reckoned to be a "new feature" - but were there earlier instances of photo-electric devices being used? The Filton equipment used was constructed by club members (maybe using bits of kit from their day-jobs at the Bristol Aeroplane Company) and was described thus "It consisted of an electric shoe placed under the competitors front wheel and held on the end of a stick. This was wired to the other end of the course (0.5 mile) where it set an electric clock in motion. The clock mechanism was stopped when the vehicle cut a light beam across the track at the finish."

Autocar in October 1947 described the electric timing gear designed by AAA timekeeper Ernest Clover and used to time John Cobb’s LSR. It consisted of a chronometer (accurate to 1/100 of a second an hour), a printer controlled by a chronometer, and an electric-eye device which actuated the chronometer.

In the December 1949 Autocar there is a lengthy article and cutaway drawings (which I’ll scan and e-mail if anyone wants to post them) describing the Loughborough-Hayes timing apparatus used at Shelsley, Weston & Brighton. Starting was activated by "hockey-stick" type track-switch in front of the undriven wheel, finish usually by light beam and photo-electric cell. Times were recorded to two decimal places and printed on individual record cards. A variation of this, with controlling red & green lights, was also available for when cars ran in pairs, such as at Brighton.

So, immediately post-WW2 photo-electric gear was in use for speed events, but are there earlier instances of it being used? And when did it become the norm for race timing?

[David Beard]

The October 24 1940 issue of MotorCycling magazine included a lengthy article on time keeping by Harold C. Brown. (an ACU official, presumably)
Roger..if it sounds of interest it would be best to photocopied and posted to you the old fashioned way..

Here's a pic from the article. Mr. A.V Ebblewhite was an icon among timekeepers, it would seem.

[Ian McKean]

The hockey stick under the front wheel, allowing times to be taken to 0.01 of a second, was introduced at Shelsley in about 1937. Austin May's book on Shelsley mentions it. I was looking at this book earlier today getting some info about Walter Baumer's appearances at Shelsley (see the von Hanstein thread). But it's in my office and I can't be bothered to go and look again until tomorrow!

[Don Capps]

This is one of those threads I meant to say something in and somehow managed not to....

As Phil points out, timing in the United States was generally quite good for the major events -- to a point. While digging into various places during my Tripoli stage, the timing and scoring capabilities at the track were quite remarkable and apparently the design lifted from the system at Indianapolis.

Remind me to bore you to tears with the timing fiasco at the 1936 George Vanderbilt Cup race. When I copied off the relevant material, it was a very thick file....

[Pete Stowe]

The Loughborough-Hayes timing gear. Not exactly pocket-sized!!

[Bladrian]

For more years than I care to remember, all rally stages here were timed with ...... pigeon clocks.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe
The Loughborough-Hayes timing gear. Not exactly pocket-sized!!

Just how would you mount two of those on a clip board?

[Frank S]

David Beard:

Just how would you mount two of those on a clip board?

A little less bulky, but not an easy fit:



Legible versions of these pages from Auto Speed and Sport, September, 1952, are here:
http://www.fototime....90C155F0B872DD8


Frank S

[David Beard]

I've just been given this ...a certificate confirming Jack Dunfee's 100 Km record at Brooklands _ 1929 in a Sunbeam. I can't be lucky enough for it to be an original - it's probably a facsimile produced by the Brooklands Museum. But nice, and suits this thread?

[Ray Bell]

"Hockey stick" timers for hillclimbs have been mentioned... maybe it's time to talk about Jim Robson's distaste for these?

Jim was the owner of the Silverdale Speed Hillclimb, but later moved to Tasmania. He is a pom of sound and firm opinion, and it was his opinion that if people were going to race against the clock, they had to have a clock that was right!

So he installed timing beams at Silverdale and did away with any thought of hockey sticks... of which he said, "You should 'ave seen the agitation on the faces of the bloke who 'eld it when Paul England brought 'is Ausca up to the line..."

The Ausca, of course, has been described before... in this thread...

[Stefan Ornerdal]

A little bit off topic - In British races from the 50's and 60's, it's seems that 10th of seconds is given only in even numbers. Was the times announced as 1/5, 2/5 etc?

Stefan

[eldougo]

It,s of topic a bit however in 1979 i had to go to HEUER factory to pick up
some timing equiptment an spent 1/2 a day there WHAT an amazing place i was taken on a full
tour . The way they made the watches & timing parts it was just like an operating theater.

I tryed to get a free sample but no luck ------- O,Well never mind.

[WDH74]

According to "The American Hot Rod" by Dean Batchelor (man, I love this book!) the first electric timing equipment was developed in the mid '30s by a Los Angeles City College engineering student named Walter Nass. The system "still used a trip wire across the course at the start and finish, but instead of mechanically operating a stopwatch, the retracting wire closed an electrical switch. The current from the closed switch energized a solenoid which operated a paper punch.
"The punch, when activated, punched a small hole in a rotating heavy paper disc about six inches in diameter. Each paper disc, replaced after each run, carried only two bits of information-the time the passing car tripped the first wire, and the time when it tripped the second wire.
"The elapsed time was determined by the distance between the two punched holes, measured by radial graduations printed on the discs to facilitate quick and easy reading. The most important component of this system, however, was a thermostatically heated tuning fork, which maintained the accuracy and consistency of the system." (pp 19-20) Apparently this system was used until 1940. A few pages on there is a picture of Mr. Nass and his timing crew handing one of these discs over to a competitor, and you can discern the timing marks and some writing on the disc. Interestingly, the timing station was in the bed of a dump truck!
-William

[D-Type]

Photo electric cells were definitely used prewar for timing LSR attempts.

I remember reading an account of George Eyston's Thunderbolt being repainted with black spots or stripes as the silver car didn't contrast sufficiently with Bonneville's white salt. This must have been 1938

As Eyston took the record from Campbell's Bluebird, the colour story could be true.

[Big Jim]

I think that I read an article in Road & Track years ago about a lady that did timing and it explained how she did it. Anyone else remember reading this?

[Frank S]

Big Jim:

I think that I read an article in Road & Track years ago about a lady that did timing and it explained how she did it. Anyone else remember reading this?

Judy Stropus? (It came to me as if in a dream)

Frank S

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Phil Harms

Electronic timing as we know it today was probably first used at Ontario Speedway in 1970. This involved each car being equipted with a transponder transmitting a unique code or frequency. A buried antenna at the S/F line detected the unigue signature of each car. The technique is used today with CART and IRL; I assume European racing uses a similar technique.

Not racing, but early in 1954 John A Cooper writing in Autocar reported on a new automatic timing device used on a Chrysler during a record attempt at Indianapolis. A radio transmitter on the car emitted a signal which was picked up on a receiver in the timing box every time the car passed. The transmitter weighed approx 1 lb. measured 4x2x1 inches, ran off the car battery & didn’t need an aeriel, and was produced by an (unamed) American company. Cooper’s final comment "Perhaps the day of automatic timing is not far off"

[fines]

Although pretty much the same as related by Phil above, here's an article from "The Des Moines Capital", nicked from L. Ball's great Des Moines Speedway site:

SPECIAL MACHINE TO TIME RACE

In the excitement of watching a big automobile race, where lives and fortunes are at stake every second from the drop of the starter's flag until the last car finishes, the public often marvels at the fact that the officials are able to furnish absolutely accurate and frequent detail records of the time, distance, etc. of each car.

To the layman in the grand stand everything connected with a big race appears like one volcanic eruption a cannonade of heavy artillery, with the spitting forth of fire and smoke, gasoline fumes and burning rubber, thru which the demon cars burst past the line of vision (time after time until the flag falls at the crossing of the winner).

Then, who knows "how fast?"

Only the official starter, judges, timers and drivers themselves realize the importance of the little wire which a few of the spectators may have noticed stretched across the track at the starting and finishing point.

As each car passes over the wire its performance is "officialy" recorded by means of one of the most delicately constructed devices ever manufactured.

There are only two of these devices in America. One is owned by the Indianapolis Speedway and used to officially time all the big races there, including the grand Memorial Day annual event.

The other is owned by the veteran "Starter" Fred Wagner, whose fame is world wide. It is the race timer built for and owned by Fred Wagner that is used in timing the big California and Florida events, the annual Elgin road race, etc., and it is the official timing device of the American Automobile association (A.A.A.). These timing devices cost over $5,000 each.

The entire outfit of the Stewart-Warner electric horograph as this timing apparattus is called, consists of a wire stretched across the track and fastened at one end to an electric break maker. Next, a time registering device run by a motor and battery; also, a Bliss chronometer, which is probably one of the most expensive clocks ever made, this part of the outfit alone costing $750.

The operation of the device is as follows: as a car passes over this wire, which is elevated about an inch above the track, it depresses it. This action makes a "break" in the electrical current, and this break causes the timing device to operate.

This timing device may be compared to a typewriter, with the exception that, on a typewriter the key strikes against the paper and ribbon resting against the pad, while on this machine the operation is just reversed. A long strip of paper is run thru the machine and passes under a marking ribbon. Raised above this is an arm or striking pad.

The car in passing over the wire breaks the electric connection. This "break" causes the marking pad to strike the strip of paper resting over the raised numerals on the edges of the discs. Thus is imprinted on the paper the precise "time" as shown by the exact position which the discs may be at that instant. The machine then automatically shifts the paper along ready to receive the next impression, which will be caused by the next car passing over the wire.

As the first car makes the circuit of the track it automatically records the precise time that the lap is made in.

A relay fitted within the device prevents the back wheels of the car registering, but this relay does not prevent the registration of the two cars which might pass over the tape within 5-100 of a second of each other.

This whole race-timing device is so intricate that the work of its construction was placed with the Stewart-Warner Speedometer corporation whose experts are authorities on magnetic type instruments.

[D-Type]

Fines,
What date is the article?

[lanciaman]

Joe Lane of New York was one of the first to make a science of timing for the SCCA, as early as the 50s, I think. I believe he taught Judy Stropus, who certainly became known for her legendary skills.
Joe was chief timer at many SCCA events in the early days and systematized the process. He owned an ad agency in Manhattan for many years, worked with Fred Stevenson at Lotus America and I hope is still with us.

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
A little bit off topic - In British races from the 50's and 60's, it's seems that 10th of seconds is given only in even numbers. Was the times announced as 1/5, 2/5 etc?

Stefan

I expect they were. And did you notice that in 1952-54 the qualifying times at Silverstone were given only to the nearest second and the finishing times of the first two cars in 1953 given to the nearest MINUTE!

[fines]

Originally posted by D-Type
Fines,
What date is the article?

:oops:

July or August 1915...

[Lotus23]

Does anyone else recall a slim paperback volume written by the aforementioned J. Stropus on the fine art of timing/scoring? I have a copy -- somewhere -- that I bought 30+ years ago. She made a dad-burned art form out of the use of a split-hand stopwatch.

I recall that some things which sounded pretty straightforward in her book were not quite so easy for the novice to perform in "the mud and the blood and the beer" at the track! It were ever thus...

[Lotus23]

Found whilst looking for something else: "The Stropus Guide to auto race timing & scoring". 124 pgs. 1975. $3.95

Among those Judy thanked on the Acknowledgements page is a familiar name: Karl Ludvigsen, "whose energy as a writer and organizer I've tried to emulate over the years, and who selected the title for this book."

On that same page, she thanks a Lee Sorrentino "who taught me all I know". No mention of Joe Lane, though Hal Crocker is mentioned.

I'd forgotten Judith V. Stropus was born in Lithuania. Does anyone know where she is nowadays?

[D-Type]

I'm reviving this old thread to ask a question regarding Land Speed Records.
It appears that the electric syatems had an accuracy of about 0.01 seconds. This translates to an acuracy of 0.027 mph at 100 mph and 0.250 mph at 300mph .
At an accuracy of 0.001 sec (one thousanth of a second) these reduce by a factor of 10 to 0.003 and 0.025 mph.

So why do people ever quote records to three decimal places?

[D-Type]

rather than start a new thread I'm resurrecting this one (again)

I'm trying to sort out early Land Speed Record speeds - every source differs marginally. One approach I'm trying is that "a mile (or km) in 24 seconds is 150mph while a mile in 23.99 is 150.0625 mph and in 24.01 is 149.9375 so a speed record must be one of these"

A key element of this approach is the accuracy of the timing. Broadly speaking I would expect that pre WW1 it was hand timing to 0.1 sec, inter war it was by timing wire accurate to 0.01 sec, from 1930 (or so) to about 1960 it was photoelectric still accurate to 0.01 sec, then from about 1980 this improved to an accuracy of 0.001 sec.

Can anybody help me out by letting me know what accuracy was achievable and when?

[fines]

Timing to a hundreth of a second would have been available before WW1, at least for some races (the 1910 Grand Prize springs to mind), before that one fifth rather than one tenth of a second.

[fines]

Knew I had it somewhere, that's from the 1971 USAC Media Guide & Record Manual:

1898-12-18 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeantaud, 57.000"
1899-01-17 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 54.000"
1899-01-17 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeataud, 51.500"
1899-01-27 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 44.800"
1899-03-04 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeantaud, 38.400"
1899-04-29 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 34.400"
1902-04-13 Serpollet, Serpollet, 29.800"
1902-08-05 W. K. Vanderbilt, Mors, 29.400"
1902-11-05 H. Fournier, Mors, 29.200"
1902-11-17 Augieres, Mors, 29.000"
1903-03-17 Rigolly, Gobron-Brillie, 26.800"
1903-11-05 A. Duray, Gobron-Brillie, 26.400"
etc.

Do you want more?

Notabene: all typos are courtesy USAC, also the times are given as that. Gerald Rose ("A Record of Motor Racing") shows all times to have been in fifths, and has 51.2" for Laubat on Jan 17 and 38.8" on Mar 4, also 34.0" for Jenatzy on Apr 29.

[lanciaman]

In the 1980s I worked for a software company in Indianapolis. A couple of our employees wrote the timing and scoring program for the 500. Following the completion of the race, data from the race would be rushed back to our building, where every car's position on every lap would be audited on our mainframe.

This was an around the clock process that required the efforts of several people, and they usually didn't finish until the early hours of the next day. According to the 500 rules, the results of the race were not official until the audit was posted by the Chief Steward at the Speedway on the morning after the race. (I publicized this process, noting that the 500 wasn't actually over until our company said so.)

At least once during this audit, official results were altered, moving one car from 8th to 7th, as I recall, though the top finishers were never effected. It was an interesting process that was rendered unnecessary in the 90s when the Speedway went to their imbedded scoring system and new computers.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by fines
Knew I had it somewhere, that's from the 1971 USAC Media Guide & Record Manual:

1898-12-18 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeantaud, 57.000"
1899-01-17 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 54.000"
1899-01-17 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeataud, 51.500"
1899-01-27 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 44.800"
1899-03-04 Chasseloup-Laubat, Jeantaud, 38.400"
1899-04-29 Camille Jenatzy, Jamais Contente Jeantzy, 34.400"
1902-04-13 Serpollet, Serpollet, 29.800"
1902-08-05 W. K. Vanderbilt, Mors, 29.400"
1902-11-05 H. Fournier, Mors, 29.200"
1902-11-17 Augieres, Mors, 29.000"
1903-03-17 Rigolly, Gobron-Brillie, 26.800"
1903-11-05 A. Duray, Gobron-Brillie, 26.400"
etc.

Do you want more?

Notabene: all typos are courtesy USAC, also the times are given as that. Gerald Rose ("A Record of Motor Racing") shows all times to have been in fifths, and has 51.2" for Laubat on Jan 17 and 38.8" on Mar 4, also 34.0" for Jenatzy on Apr 29.

Many thanks Michael. I'll process these and send you a PM if i need anything further.

[Judy Stropus]

Hello,

I just found this bulletin board because some of the messages had my name in them. So, I thought I'd respond.

Thank you very much for remembering me. I'll answer the question as to where I am these days.

Although I retired from timing about 15 years ago or so, I have always maintained the public relations side of my business and continue to do motorsports p.r. For 30-plus years I represented Chevrolet in sports-car racing, NHRA drag-racing and NASCAR. Three years ago GM cut back so I no longer represent them. I also represented BMW for nine years in sports-car racing, and two years ago they also cut back.

Having had the privilege of working with the great teams in NHRA drag racing in the past for GM, I contracted with Don Schumacher Racing in 2003 to represent his three Funny Car teams (Gary Scelzi, Whit Bazemore, Ron Capps), one Pro Stock (Richie Stevens Jr.) and one Top Fuel Dragster (Melanie Troxel). In 2005 Gary Scelzi dethroned John Force for the Funny Car crown, Ron Capps finished second, and Melanie became the quickest and fastest female in NHRA history.

So, it's been an exciting time. I also continue to stay close with my sports-car friends and have a few clients among them.

I know this thread is quite old, but I couldn't resist responding. Have a wonderful 2006.

Best regards,

Judy Stropus

[2F-001]

Gosh - welcome to TNF, Judy.
A celebrity timekeeper, no less!
I hope there might be a few other topics here to interest you.

[Roger Clark]

I've read through this thread and this one http://forums.autosp...ght=timekeeping, but I don't think the following question has been answered. I apologise if it has.

When was automatic timing first used in circuit racing?

By automatic i mean timing that was automatically triggered by the passing of the car, that is, it didn't rely on somebody pressing a button. I am trying to establish how justified is the often quoted accusation that British organisers used egg-timers in the 1950s. As Leif Snellman pointed out:

I think one has to separate the ability to take accurate times from the williness of the officials to use that ability. Several tracks including Tripoli had the equipment to at least theoretically take times down to 1/100s back in the 1930s.

As I understand it, publishing times taken by hand to more than a tenth is completely misleading and it seems that even a fifth might be the practical limit.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
As I understand it, publishing times taken by hand to more than a tenth is completely misleading and it seems that even a fifth might be the practical limit.

As a former official timekeeper (at Levin in NZ in the 1960s) I would say that even a good operator, concentrating hard, would be lucky to hand-time to a tenth with any consistency. Our biggest problem was that although we had a core of proficient operators, we had to rope in others who, I suspect, were there for the free admission and a good view. One bloke used to exclaim several times a day about such-and-such a driver suddenly lapping a second under his previous best time. Then the next lap, when the time was a second slower than normal, he'd say "Oh, he must have scared himself". Whereas all that had happened was that the timekeeper had clicked his watch a second too soon the first time, and then at the proper time on the next lap.
Fortunately our Chief Timekeeper had sufficient nous to overlook such anomalies when publishing the times, and always allocated the best operators to the fastest cars.
But my experience taught me to regard any hand-timed figures as very much open to question