20 replies to this topic

[deangelis86]

I received an email from a chap in New Zealand, who asked me a fairly straightforward question that I honesty could not answer: :

"....so the question is - is there a Brabham BT55 chassis either still running or in a state of display state anywhere in the UK?"

Well experts, it's over to you....

[Gary C]

doesn't Bernie still have them??

[deangelis86]

Wow! Quick draw McGraw or what Gary!

I think that the '55 would be the last Brabham chassis one would have expected to find in Bernies personal collection, but you might just be right.

Anyone else comment further on this?

[Gary C]

you'd be surprised what cars Bernie owns, like the M23 that James won the Championship in at Suzuka. And don't let ANYONE tell you he doesn't-I have it on good authority that it still has the dirt on it an' all!

[WGD706]

The failure of the very expensive "laydown" BT55 (nicknamed "The Flounder" and "The Skateboard") for which BMW specially redesigned the M12/13 turbo engine in '86, was the start of the decline of the Brabham team. The BMW engine was canted over at 72° to make the back of the car as low as possible, and smooth the air flow to the rear wing. Unfortunately, although the BT55 developed up to 30% more downforce than its immediate predecessor, somewhere along the line it also picked up an excessive amount of drag. Added to the problem of lost power due to poor oil circulation in an angled engine, the whole package was a disaster.
With DeAngelis' fatal accident and Gordon Murray's reaction to it, I would wonder if any copies of the car still exist.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Not a complete disaster, a developed version of the BT55 did rather well in 1988.
It won every single race, had it not been a certain Schlesser...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Not a complete disaster, a developed version of the BT55 did rather well in 1988.
It won every single race, 'cept for the rather famous accident at Monza.

Just happened to be red and white, to have the driver sitting up a bit
more, and to have a Honda V6 in it rather than a rather compromised
inline four ;) But yes, the lineage between BT55 and MP4/4 is pretty
obvious!

pete

[mera308gtb]

Just happened to be red and white, to have the driver sitting up a bit
more, and to have a Honda V6 in it rather than a rather compromised
inline four But yes, the lineage between BT55 and MP4/4 is pretty
obvious!

True. That BT55 lineage probably played a larger part of the MP4/4's success than many people give credit. The Honda V6 was the best engine that year, but it didn't help Lotus too much.

[EvilPhil]

No but due to the problems of the BMW engine in the Brabham Murray had requested that Honda make an engine to fit his design, rather than the compromise that BMW made Murray do.

Honda obliged and hey presto you have one of the most sucessful cars in History, bar this years Ferrari... although stats can read either way.

[stuartbrs]

as an aside, I always thought the brabhams from 83-86 were gorgeous...

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by stuartbrs
as an aside, I always thought the brabhams from 83-86 were gorgeous...

But would you have thought them gorgeous if they were pink?

I reckon the dark blue and white accentuated their handsomeness.

As that colour scheme did to a beaked car 20 yrs before the BT pizza

[F1M]

Everyone might want to check out this page - http://www.weismann.net/brabham.html

Eric

[Henri Greuter]

EvilPhil wrote:

No but due to the problems of the BMW engine in the Brabham Murray had requested that Honda make an engine to fit his design, rather than the compromise that BMW made Murray do.

===

Wasn't it a matter of two having the same thought? I believe it was Ian Bamsey in his book about the MP4/4 that he discussed with Honda engineers the possibities of using a smaller clutch to reduce engine height and Honda engineers telling him they had such under development already?

And indeed, Lotus was quite the approval that much of the success of the MP4/4 Honda had to be credited to the chassis. Add to it that it was driven by the best two drivers in the business and the results aint not surprising anymore. But all that is off topic. BT55 deserves more credit as an original concept but it failed in making it work. If it is a hallmark car, I have some doubts but it was innovative for sure.


Henri Greuter

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mac Lark



But would you have thought them gorgeous if they were pink?

I reckon the dark blue and white accentuated their handsomeness.

As that colour scheme did to a beaked car 20 yrs before the BT pizza

ISTR that by the time Damon Hill was driving a Brabham quite a lot of it was pink. And it was still a good-looking car!

pete

[dmj]

Originally posted by petefenelon


ISTR that by the time Damon Hill was driving a Brabham quite a lot of it was pink. And it was still a good-looking car!

pete

Oh, well...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by petefenelon


ISTR that by the time Damon Hill was driving a Brabham quite a lot of it was pink. And it was still a good-looking car!

pete

A triumph of style over substance. It might have looked good, but the Judd engine did it no favours ....

[deangelis86]

All of this technical discussion of the BT55 is indeed very interesting, however...

Does anyone have an answer to the original question....pleeeeeeeeease?

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by deangelis86
All of this technical discussion of the BT55 is indeed very interesting, however...

Does anyone have an answer to the original question....pleeeeeeeeease?

Last time I was at Donington there was a BT55 on display there - along with a load of other Brabhams - it did look very low compared to the previous 7 subsequent years car.

My understanding was that they were from Bernie's collection - apart from the odd BT49 or so none of the Bernie Brabhams seems to have left his possesion (one BT49 racing in TGP still belongs to him and is only on loan, the other escaped because it was given to Gordon Murray).

Even if he had all the F1 Brabhams, they would only form a small percentage of his amazing collection - something like 400 cars including pre-war Mercedes, lots of Ferraris (the single seater section of Obrist's collection), Syracuse winning Connaught (B1), etc.
Hunt's M23 would not be a surprise (except to all the other people who own a Hunt Championship winning car!), probably lots of Rindt cars as well.

What he has missed out on by not paying enough (or messing the owner around) is just as interesting, but I value my life too much to reveal more!!

[Doug Nye]

A BT55-BMW of course exists. It's owned by......

The late DCN

[fines]

RIP Doug...

[deangelis86]

Ahh, is that the 1/43 or 1/18 scale model though?

;)