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#201 ferdi

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:03

Originally posted by Alexander M Do you know anything about Hungarian sportscars racing in 1950s-1960s? Did such a category exist? Have any interesting cars been made? [/B]

Alexander,
I am a rallye photographer, collector.
I have basic knowledge about other races in Eastern European countries.
But in my archive there are a lot of interesting old photos, documents, magazines.
I will post some to here, I find pleasure in this.....

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#202 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 13:16

Originally posted by ferdi
This article was published in March 1963....maybe the report about the 1962 race ?

Anatoliy Argentov(aircraft mechanic from Kiev)
constructeur - V. Kozenkov

and a really interesting photo(for me)


Both photos were posted to this thread three or four years ago by Rainer Nyberg - of smaller size but a bit better quality (they are no longer available). The first one, as Alexandr has written, is the Kiev 1 by Anatoly Argentov. I doubt, however, that Kosenkov could be a designer of the car. He lived in Leningrad, not in Kiev, and was known as a designer of a number of KVN single-seaters and sportscars. One of them - the KVN 1300G - can be seen in the background. Perhaps there was some confusion and these two cars were mixed up in that article.

The one which you are interested in is the F. Libre car by Yury Vishnyakov. It had a Volga three-litre engine which delivered about 120 hp. Vishnyakov won the 1962 and 1963 national F. Libre championships at its wheel. Here is its photo from 1961:
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#203 Alexander M

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 16:54

Originally posted by ferdi
Alexander,
I am a rallye photographer, collector.
I have basic knowledge about other races in Eastern European countries.
But in my archive there are a lot of interesting old photos, documents, magazines.
I will post some to here, I find pleasure in this.....


Thank you :)

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
The first one, as Alexandr has written, is the Kiev 1 by Anatoly Argentov. I doubt, however, that Kosenkov could be a designer of the car. He lived in Leningrad, not in Kiev, and was known as a designer of a number of KVN single-seaters and sportscars. One of them - the KVN 1300G - can be seen in the background. Perhaps there was some confusion and these two cars were mixed up in that article.


Indeed. My mistake :(

#204 ferdi

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 23:07

Pic from a 1963 magazine, Tartu .. ?

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#205 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:12

Tartu 1, the rear-engined sportscar designed by Ants Seiler, 1963.

#206 ferdi

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 12:14

?
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http://photofile.nam.../#mainImageLink

#207 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 12:19

This is the well-known photo of the GM 20, Soviet single-seater designed in 1957 by Valery Shakhverdov from Leningrad (he is standing alongside the car). The file has been obviously scanned from 'Za Rulem', June 1968.

More info here: http://www.ussr-auto...ters/gm-20.html. Also I have a short video of this car: http://rapidshare.de.../GM-20.mpg.html (11 MB).

#208 ferdi

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 13:07

Thanks Alexey!

These scans from the 1964/1 Hungarian Auto-Motor magazine.
Riga, Mesa-Park.
orginal photos - Aleksandr Makarov, APN

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#209 EvDelft

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 12:34

Wow, I've been through every link I found so far, but because this thread is already going on for a couple of years, some are unfortunately dead. Very...

I like reading this, seeing pictures and so on. Being able to read Russian helps me, although I don't understand everything, it is very interesting...

Looking out for more! :D

#210 HistoryFan

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 16:59

Estonia and Moskvich were dominating the Soviet F1 championship.
Have they no plans to enter the real F1 World championship?
If so, can you tell me more about the plans and if not, why not?

#211 EvDelft

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:20

Aleksey,

This Mondial Championsship you write about, is that still F1? Of is it a lower class?

I'm still trying hard to find any results of the F1-races from the USSR... No luck up 'till now. :|

Erwin.

#212 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 16:51

Erwin,

I'm sorry for the delay in answering - I was away for some days. So, F. Mondlal was an unsuccessful attempt to create a cheap and popular worldwide formula. AFAIK, only East European countries were really enthusiastic about this idea - more info here: http://forums.autosp...&threadid=75855. Soviet F. Mondial championship was held in 1988-1989 and was replaced by the national F1600 in 1990.

I'm still trying hard to find any results of the F1-races from the USSR... No luck up 'till now.

Have you tried my web site?;)

#213 HistoryFan

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 19:11

What were the three best and most successfull Russian Soviet F1 drivers? Are there some more infos about them?

#214 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 16:34

To begin with, the expression "Soviet F1 driver" is incorrect. The reason is that national F1 was never considered to be an absolute top class that every racing driver wanted to reach. It was only the one of three "big" classes - F1, F2, F3 - which often differed only in engine types and their capacity: 110...150 hp in F1, 90...100 hp in F2, 70...90 hp in F3. So drivers' aim was to reach whatever of them, and after this they have to switch from one class to another from season to season depending on an engine one could buy and modify, a chassis which a racing club had bought, personal preferences etc. This has resulted in a curious fact: fourteen Soviet F1 championships were held, and fourteen different drivers became champions. So how can I choose among them to select three most successful if each of them is a one-time champion? :lol:

#215 HistoryFan

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 18:06

Okay I didn't mean only the facts and numbers with most successfull. Better word would be the three best drivers...

#216 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 18:29

Well, if you need three drivers, I'd name the following:

1. Madis Laiv (Estonia, Tallinn) - six-time USSR champion (won F1 championship in 1971, Estonia 16M) and the 1975 Cup of Peace and Friendship winner. He was known as 'the thinking driver' who could always combine high speed and reliability in his driving.

2. Vladimir Grekov (Russia, Krasnodar) - five-time USSR champion (won F1 championship in 1976, Estonia 18). Grekov was a very talented driver who started racing single-seaters in 1966 and unexpectedly won the USSR championship the next year.

3. Viktor Schavelev (Russia, Moscow) - 1965 USSR F1 champion (Moskvich G4A), a great 'universal' driver who also raced in rally (won three national championships) and winter track racing. I have the honour to be acquainted with him, and his biography, illustrated with the photos from his personal archive, is on my web site: http://www.ussr-auto.../schavelev.html.

#217 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 08:56

Thank you!

#218 Aspelund

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 13:05

If to talk about good drivers, I would ad also Enn Griffel here. His friends have said, that he could race with everything. Give him the bathtub with engine and wheels and he would have won. His Estonia-9 engines (2-stroke Wartburg) were always more powerful than others, because he could manage them better than overs during the races. Juhan Sein, constructor at Estonia factory during the end of 60's told me, that Griffel had very precise hearing, so he could hear the changes in engine note and adapt his driving style accordingly. I think in 1969 he won one race with broken exhaust...and with 2-stroke engine broken exhaust means a very bad thing.



#219 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 14:47

Are there still Estonia single seaters in some racing series?
A homepage from Estonia?

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#220 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 17:19

If to talk about good drivers, I would ad also Enn Griffel here.

Tarmo, you're quite right mentioning Griffel as the one of the best Soviet racing drivers ever. The request, however, has concerned only those who were successful in national F1 (as far as I have understood), so Griffel, who won six champion titles in F. Junior and F3, doesn't meet this requirement.

Are there still Estonia single seaters in some racing series?
A homepage from Estonia?

The production of Estonia single-seaters was stopped in 1996 but some of them are still in racing. For instance, there are two or three Estonia 25's in Ukrainian national championship: http://www.rallykisa...c...d=29&id=273. A number of the 25's and 21's belong to German HAIGO historic racing club (http://www.puru.de/a...08/DSC09935.JPG, http://www.puru.de/a...08/DSC09915.JPG). The Estonia works homepage is still active, and there is a brief history of TARK/Kavor in Estonian: http://www.kavor.ee/...ugu/ajalugu.htm.

#221 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 17:24

Thank you once again!

#222 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:13

1966, Soviet F1 championship, round 1, Nevskoe Koltso (Leningrad)

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(from Viktor Schavelev's personal archive)

Front row: 21 - Vladimir Bubnov, Moskvich G4A; 5 - Vladimir Glurdzhidze; 10 - Konstantin Konstantinov, KVN 3000G; 11 - Viktor Schavelev, Moskvich G4M.

#223 EvDelft

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:31

Now THAT is what I call a wonderfull photo! :clap: :up: :smoking:

Alexey, pole is on the left, I suppose?

Edited by EvDelft, 22 September 2009 - 09:32.


#224 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 15:13

Erwin, I don't know exactly. If I had the qualifying results of this race, I would be able to tell. Unfortunately I haven't - and hypothesizing without facts is only millling the wind :rolleyes:

#225 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 18:32

Two more photos from the same championship - this time of the second round at the Neman Ring, near Kaunas:

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#226 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 21:39

Some interesting Soviet era pictures can be found here http://englishrussia.com/?p=2371


#227 Alexander M

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 17:15

A post from Brazilian blog, seemingly based on Alexey's post on a previous page:
http://mestrejoca.bl...a-de-ferro.html

How small the World really is! :)

Edited by Alexander M, 29 September 2009 - 17:16.


#228 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 09:46

The Auto-Union at Bikernieki, 1979:

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Source: http://visualrian.ru/images/item/51492

#229 EvDelft

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 06:42

Some interesting Soviet era pictures can be found here http://englishrussia.com/?p=2371

Rainer,

About this Formula 1-ish cars, in the second half of the page, do you have any idea of which race / year the photo's are? Tnx. :up:

#230 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:39

Rainer,

About this Formula 1-ish cars, in the second half of the page, do you have any idea of which race / year the photo's are? Tnx. :up:


I am not an expert, maybe Alexsey or someone else has a clue?

#231 Alexander M

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 16:13

I believe the first two pictures of formula cars were made at Bikernieki, while the other two show Pirita. Can't be sure about the exact years and events - I think Alexey knows more :)

#232 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 21:01

Some interesting Soviet era pictures can be found here http://englishrussia.com/?p=2371


6th photo (Lada number 91 on two wheels) is actually a Bulgarian crew:
91 Ilian Toplodolski	  BG  Georgi Pentchev			  BG  Lada VFTS				B-9

and this photo was taken during 1987 Rally of Poland, Super Special Stage in town Sobotka, south of Wroclaw.

Grzegorz Chyla
http://www.rajdpolski.prv.pl


#233 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:00

I believe the first two pictures of formula cars were made at Bikernieki, while the other two show Pirita. Can't be sure about the exact years and events - I think Alexey knows more :)

Alexander, you are quite right. The photos no. 19 and 20 were taken at Bikernieki, Riga, and 21 and 22 at Pirita, Tallinn.

19: early seventies, the cars are mostly Estonia 16M's and 18's.
20: 1972 or 1973, Yury Terenetsky, Moskvich G5.
21: 1972 or 1973, USSR championship race, no. 19 Vladimir Generalov, no. 41 Stanislav Gess-de-Kalve, both in Estonia 16M's.

#234 EvDelft

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:42

And thanks again!

Aleksey, do you by the way happen to know if the starting numbers were fixed? (Or, to put it in other words, if the drivers were starting with the same starting numbers all year?)

You're a great help any way, I've got much to learn!!!

#235 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:16

The numbers were actually fixed starting from the late sixties, although there weren't any official regulations fixing it. It was a sort of an unwritten rule: drivers used to change their numbers frequently only in the beginning of their careers. There were also some groups of numbers unofficially assigned to the republics: for instance, in Volga touring cars class the fourties usually belonged to Latvian drivers, and the fifties to Estonian. And, of course, the numbers from 60 to 79 were always the most prestigious - no need to explain why.

#236 RobertS

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 12:44

Rallye Russkaya Zima 1973 & 77:

http://lepoldsportvi...y_1973_1977.wmv

#237 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 19:03

Thank you for the link :up: I'm not particularly interested in rallies but one of my Czech acquaintances, researching the history of the rally Cup of Peace and Friendship, would be really happy to watch it :)

#238 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:18

Some photos of the Moskvich G5M's in 1974-75, which I have posted to another forum but think they wouldn't be out of place here as well:

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And this is how they are now: http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=3968090.

#239 rwills

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 19:15

Alexey, I've had a look at your excellent site. I live in Moscow (for nearly 15 years) and am interested in early saloon car racing in the USSR. I see some references to GAZ-21 cars raced in 1959/1960 but I've not seen any photos of these cars. Do you have any photos of early saloon car races? It may be fun at some point to have a TNF gathering in Moscow..... Regards, Roger

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#240 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 19:35

Roger,

The early Volga races which you're referring to are definitely the 1959 Kalev Trophy (Kalevi Suursõit) and the 1960 Season Opening Trophy, aren't they? Unfortunately I don't have any photos just of these races but there are a lot of photos of racing Volgas from the mid-sixties in my archive. You can also try the photo galleries on my Latvian friend's web site: http://www.racinghis...oto_arhivs.html.

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Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 13 December 2009 - 19:37.


#241 rwills

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 19:41

Those are fantastic Alexey! Thank you.

I will check out the other site as well.

Thanks again.

Roger


#242 RobertS

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 12:34

Few interesting photos >
http://picasaweb.goo.../OldPhotoRally#

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Riga 1977
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Edited by RobertS, 26 December 2009 - 12:36.


#243 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 19:54

Not bad :)

rwills: if you look at this gallery, you'll find a couple of racing Volgas there - although not 21's but 24's (28 Ivan Kalinichuk, Kiev; 46 Igo Rätsep, Tallinn).

#244 vax

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 20:55

Estonia 24 with it's creators, Raul Sarap and Lembit Tammsaar
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Lembit Tammsaar and Avo Soots. Estonia 21-s. Tammsaar's car was I believe first one that had fuel injected engine.
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Estonia 15M
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Estonia 20-s at Bikernike, Riga
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Estonia 16 crash photo, probably Pirita, Tallinn
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Edited by vax, 09 March 2010 - 20:50.


#245 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 21:19

Estonia 19-s at Bikernike, Riga

The Estonia 20's in fact: 63 Gediminas Neverauskas, 64 Toivo Asmer, 22 Ivars Krūmiņš, 79 Alexandr Medvedchenko, 5 Alexandr Tseruashvili. The photo was taken on June 21, 1981 at the third round of the USSR championship.

#246 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 20:57

Yes, sorry my bad. Estonia 20-s of course.
And the other driver standing by Raul Sarap (Estonia 24 pic) is my good friend Lembit Tammsaar, the author of aerodynamic bodywork of E24.

The Estonia 24, like the Estonia 21, had the F1 Lotus as a prototype - this time the 95T. The story, as is was told by Alexandr Sadovsky (the former TARK chief designer), began with a big photo of this Lotus, presented to him by the Hungarian rally team in February 1985 :)

Edited by Alexey Rogachev, 09 March 2010 - 20:59.


#247 vax

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 17:40

The Estonia 24, like the Estonia 21, had the F1 Lotus as a prototype - this time the 95T. The story, as is was told by Alexandr Sadovsky (the former TARK chief designer), began with a big photo of this Lotus, presented to him by the Hungarian rally team in February 1985 :)

Interesting...not much similarities between those two cars...except body shape...
The info I know comes from my neighbor, Lembit Tammsaar, who described how this car was made. His duty was shaping the body panels, Sarap made monocock and other mechanical stuff.
Sadovsky was chief engineer when Estonia 25 emerged, do you happen to know, is this car also related to some F1 design? I know it was first production car with aluminum monocock...

Edited by vax, 14 March 2010 - 17:44.


#248 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 20:40

The Estonia 25 was designed without any F1 prototype, and the aim was relatively unassuming yet difficult: designing a modern F3 car that could be competitive against Western analogues.

BTW, isn't this your photo gallery: http://nagi.ee/photo...er/sets/249063/ ?

#249 vax

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 18:05

yep, I digitized my article collection. It's in Estonian language.

#250 vax

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 18:13

Last Estonia car, 26-9. Year 2000. The article says there was plan to make new model, E27. However supposedly they didn't find enough financing for development. Also the racing car market was already gone.
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Edited by vax, 15 March 2010 - 18:16.