249 replies to this topic

[JForce]

What a great idea...I mean, this place just gets better and better.

This just adds untold value to my already fantastic Atlas subscription. Atlas just keeps on surprising me with the new features and continual improvement. Wow

[bira]

Hi All,

I am very pleased to announce that FORIX will become a part of the service offered to the Atlas F1 subscribers as of January 15th 2003.

The deal, agreed on between us and Joao Paulo Cunha - the owner of FORIX - will allow FORIX to stay alive and expand, with plans in place to add laptimes of races several years back, as well as more data and information to what is already the most extensive Formula One database in the world.

We will also be offering those who are not interested in an Atlas F1 subscription options to subscribe to FORIX only (this is primarily aimed at non-English speaking users). However, as of January 15th 2003 FORIX will be open to the subscribers only.

Special Offer:

Purchase an Atlas F1 annual (1 year) Subscription before January 15th 2003 - and pay only $36.00 USD *

* The rate for an annual Atlas F1 subscription will cost $44.00 USD as of January 15th 2003

This offer is for both new users (those who do not have a subscription yet) and for existing subscribers (those who have an active or an expired subscription to Atlas F1).

Click here for more details on this offer

Both Joao and I are very excited about this partnership, as we believe the combination of ATLAS F1 and FORIX will give our subscribers the best value for money that can be found ANYWHERE. No magazine or website can provide the extent and wealth of information which is offered by Atlas F1 and FORIX combined!

Thank you,

Bira

[rdrcr]

Congratulations on the joint venture!

It should be an excellent merger of databases and exchange.

Nice Job Bira and Joao!

;)

[Vitesse2]

Okay Bira - you got me! Where do I sign?

Seriously, I'd actually sussed this a while back when we were discussing the Atlas F1 Reference Centre in TNF (as I'm sure Racer.Demon will confirm - he swore me to secrecy!)

So - the best forums, the best database, the best news service, the best articles .... yep! Well worth 36 bucks!!

[squiggle bob]

*cough* monopoly *cough*

;)

great news..

maybe i will finally get around to subscribing to atlas..

[maclaren]

May favorite statistics site goes under pay per view

There may be many valid opinions about this, but I haven't and I will not put my pennies to internet services.

It means less info then

[JForce]

Originally posted by maclaren
May favorite statistics site goes under pay per view

There may be many valid opinions about this, but I haven't and I will not put my pennies to internet services.

It means less info then

Whilst Im sure Bira does not want us to start another pay vs non-pay debate, I can only suggest that you then start your own. How you can expect something with the depth and quality of both AtlasF1 and Forix to be paid for and worked on by goodwill volunteers, and for you then to have unrestricted access to the fruits of their labour is beyond me.

People have to WORK to produce this stuff...it doesn't just appear. They don't do it to make money...they do it to survive, and enhance it.

So start your own F1 website, thats completely free, and have a great time. I for one would rather pay for the best quality and quantity of F1 material on the 'net....but that's just me

[Zmeej]

My favorite statistics site goes under pay per view

My sentiments are with this half of maclaren's post.

I'd gladly pay for this stuff, just don't have the $.

Hope the merger means a reduction in the high-irritation level pop-out ads that was Forix's only downside.

But then, at least for the next while, I won't be able to see them to get irritated by them anyway.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by JForce
Whilst Im sure Bira does not want us to start another pay vs non-pay debate, I can only suggest that you then start your own. How you can expect something with the depth and quality of both AtlasF1 and Forix to be paid for and worked on by goodwill volunteers, and for you then to have unrestricted access to the fruits of their labour is beyond me.

People have to WORK to produce this stuff...it doesn't just appear. They don't do it to make money...they do it to survive, and enhance it.

So start your own F1 website, thats completely free, and have a great time. I for one would rather pay for the best quality and quantity of F1 material on the 'net....but that's just me

Don't get me wrong, I think they have every right to get some rewenue from the effort they put in these sites.

I only said if there is no free F1-data sites I will see none. Simple as that. But as long as there are some I will enjoy them. It doesn't mean I don't rate their job, it means "I'm available to click to their sites" if they want so.....

[A3]

Originally posted by bira

* The rate for an annual Atlas F1 subscription will cost $44.00 USD as of January 15th 2003

Damn, and I didn't even get a pay rise this year. Hope this won't be an annual rise.

Welcome Forix !

[BlackCat]

for $36 i'll get 11 bottles of vodka. it's a little bit more than my 1 month supply and i'll not give it up.
after doing my daily (freelance) work i do my best as a payless editor of a local (sci-fi) webzine.
i'll still not pay for love. i'll still not pay for visiting web pages, even such good ones as atlas and forix.
so it's a big F*** Y** from me.

[rgagne]

I am very pleased wiyh this announcement!!! I took the opportunity to renew my subscription for an additionnal year. I strongly recommend to all to do the same!!!

[A3]

Originally posted by BlackCat
for $36 i'll get 11 bottles of vodka. it's a little bit more than my 1 month supply and i'll not give it up.
after doing my daily (freelance) work i do my best as a payless editor of a local (sci-fi) webzine.
i'll still not pay for love. i'll still not pay for visiting web pages, even such good ones as atlas and forix.
so it's a big F*** Y** from me.

It's not Atlas F1's or Forix' fault that you have a drinking problem.

[Flying Panda]

This is shattering news to those of us who are highly dependant on FORiX, and arent subscribers.

Congratulations to those who are subscribed, and those who are able to subscribe.

[TheD2JBug]

kicketh some asseth

[TheD2JBug]

Originally posted by BlackCat
for $36 i'll get 11 bottles of vodka. it's a little bit more than my 1 month supply and i'll not give it up.
after doing my daily (freelance) work i do my best as a payless editor of a local (sci-fi) webzine.
i'll still not pay for love. i'll still not pay for visiting web pages, even such good ones as atlas and forix.
so it's a big F*** Y** from me.

welcome to the new reality of the Internet my friend

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by BlackCat
for $36 i'll get 11 bottles of vodka. it's a little bit more than my 1 month supply and i'll not give it up.
after doing my daily (freelance) work i do my best as a payless editor of a local (sci-fi) webzine.
i'll still not pay for love. i'll still not pay for visiting web pages, even such good ones as atlas and forix.
so it's a big F*** Y** from me.

Quality costs. If you're running a small site, you can do it for free. When you run something as big as Atlas or Forix, which needs to be maintained almost 24 hours a day, you have to find a source of income that allows you to do that otherwise it no longer exists.

[BlackCat]

peace
i was so surprised that i forgot the smileys. it's just that i was a bit ironic with a friend of mine who outprinted the whole content of Forix not so long ago :

[crouchyaj]

Well it looks like the sites are running out for me to visit as I'll not subscribe again. This is not because I think it is not worhtwhile for it is. ATLASF1 is the best F1 site on the net and I was one of the early subscribers when it went pay per view.

My problem is not money but time. It is not worth my while subscribing as some months I don't even have time to hardly check my hotmail account let alone the time to read such a quality mag as ATLASF1. Usully my F1 entertainment centres around a quick click on FORIX after the race to see the results, sometimes days later. I didn't even manage to watch one whole race this year.

If you look at my posts on this BB they are dismal compared to last year, in fact the only reason that I'm posting now is that I'm in the office, whilst on Christmas holidays mind you, to catch up on some work.

Anyway, its a good move forward for ATLASF1 and FORIX but unfortunately a step backwards for myself, just don't have time to get the value for money that ATLAS offers now let alone what it will once FORIX is added to its arsenal.

[StickShift]

This Smilie sums it up ->

Actually a question. Will Forix still operate independently from Atlas f1, or will the two sites merge together?

[Rene]

Just renewed my subscription

Bira et al keep adding value

(although I am still waiting for one specific article I know Jane Nottage was working on this year) hint hint hint

[Hotwheels]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld



Quality costs. If you're running a small site, you can do it for free. When you run something as big as Atlas or Forix, which needs to be maintained almost 24 hours a day, you have to find a source of income that allows you to do that otherwise it no longer exists.

Sure - you need income to pay staff / costs etc - that is why in the commercial world you have sponsorships / advertisements etc.
My personal opinion is that like sites - Economist / Fortune / Time , the news should be free , as this is not generated by Atlas - simply posted - the magazine content can be subscribed. Moreover the fees - which incidentally do not just cover costs , but i suppose also mean PROFITS , could be offset with limited advertising .

BMW / Toyota are all advertising on different F1 sites - with Michelin sponsoring columns / writeups- I wondor why Atlas dont solicit quality ads in a limited way.

[Rene]

Originally posted by Hotwheels

BMW / Toyota are all advertising on different F1 sites - with Michelin sponsoring columns / writeups- I wondor why Atlas dont solicit quality ads in a limited way.

I think the 'term' bias would spring up, if the people you are reporting on, are the same people paying the bills....

[TT6]

Originally posted by StickShift

+ there's more in AtlasF1
- there's less for free
- AtlasF1 subscribtion fee rises

-> more "-"'s than "+"'s.

[Slick]

Well I have to say it took me longer to get my credit card out of my Wallet than to decide on spending my money on Atlas

Thanks for adding more great info to an already excellent site.

I spend far too much time here as it is, now my wife will never see me

Good Luck for the future Bira & Joao

[Sir Frank]

Very, very nice, specially the adding laptimes issue!


Is the multi language feature going to be available for Forix in the future?

What will happen to the current translations?

[Clone]

Originally posted by Sir Frank
Very, very nice, specially the adding laptimes issue!

But I'm pissed. I signed up to AtlasF1 last week and have possibly missed out on this US$4 discount!

On the other hand, I get an unexpected bonus in FORIX and save myself US$4 by not subscribing after Jan 15th.

As a new subscriber, I would like to see some serious work done on the website design and navigation. There's a wealth of information but it's very hard to get at and page designs vary quite a lot. Hopefully with more and more subscribers, AtlasF1 will get this issue sorted. Other than that, the content is fabulous (even in the off season).

[Sir Frank]

Originally posted by BlackCat
for $36 i'll get 11 bottles of vodka.

How big is a glass of Vodka where you live? 0,5L?

[Vrba]

I agree with everbody expressing their disgust about Forix going pay-per-view. All these pages (Atlas....) were supposedly created out of enthusiasm. Yet, when an opportunity to make money arises, it's hardly to be missed. That's not how I think it should be.
Imagein, it's 36$ here, 40$ there, 20$ here, 50$ there, soon it will be $1000 per web pages per year if one has multiple interests. This is not justified in any way, not even by better service.
I have never paid for a web page and will never do so even if whole Internet becomes pay-per-view.


Hrvoje

[Vunz]

Atlas is getting more and more a monopolist position on the internet F1 information, what's next? Integrating Schlegelmilch for the best F1 photoshots? Providing the best F1 videoclips and gradually raising the annual subscription fee too $100? This thing is getting out of hand, another great site behind the ticket booth.

[Buford]

I have a website maybe we could combine Atlas with. That would pretty much corner the market on all male interests. But OK, I guess I'll have to sign up for another year.

[bira]

A few really quick response to questions:

* FORIX remains a separate website, with all the multiple languages it offers;

* Neither FORIX nor Atlas F1 is profitable, and I don't see either becoming profitable in the near future. Subscription fees cover a big chunck of our costs but they don't cover it all.

* Suggesting that FORIX or Atlas F1 have taken the subscription route due to greed is hillarious at best, mean and insulting at worst. And thinking that such websites could have remained purely enthusiasm-driven is naive and out of touch with reality.

* Vunz you're getting carried away there, don't you think? "Atlas is getting more and more a monopolist position on the internet F1 information, what's next?" What have we done before to suggest we are getting "more and more" a monopoly? "More and more" indicates a set of actions - name them please? Anyway, last I checked Monopoly means "Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service." With several hundred F1 websites around, I can't see how two websites going on a joint venture can be construed as monopolism.

Anyhow, carry on fantasizing about me and Joao buying a Villa in the South of Spain. The idea is nice, just what a shame it's only a fantasy

Happy holidays!

Bira

[Hotwheels]

Originally posted by Rene


I think the 'term' bias would spring up, if the people you are reporting on, are the same people paying the bills....

Bias ???

Have you never a magazine with ads and a objective news / story even of the ad company ??? This is where objective good journalism comes in - and i am sure as in other media , people are professional enough to be correct and just and not mix dollars in and opinions out columns.......

[NTV 650]

I subscribed to Atlas about 1 year ago (after considering it for months) and I have to say: I never regretted it for a sec. The news is thrustworthy and on time, the story and collums are great, and now FORIX is added to the list. I'm afraid I have to subscribe for another year!

[QdfV]

Congratulations to Atlas and Forix, well done Bira and Joao, all the best! Continue on this road and likely one day the 'Atlas group of F1 websites' will have enough content and variety in content so that a submission is worthwhile (whatever it will cost).

[Vitesse2]

A thought for all those who are moaning about the end of the "free Internet". Seriously, how long did you think it would (or could) last? Most free sites survive by taking ads - there's only so much advertising to go round and sooner or later even the Doubleclick merchants, the online casinos and all the other rubbish that pops up on your screen are going to discover that their business models won't pay. Then you can wave goodbye to a lot of sites.

Someone mentioned "quality" adverts - where do you draw the line? Do you try to make the advertising you take "relevant"? What is "relevant"? Only racing-based suppliers like tyre companies? Or do you include sponsors like (say) Red Bull? Orange? Vodafone? Before you know it, you're in a whole different ballgame ....

Buford:

[Dudley]

Imagein, it's 36$ here, 40$ there, 20$ here, 50$ there, soon it will be $1000 per web pages per year if one has multiple interests. This is not justified in any way, not even by better service.

Yeah, they should give out all paper magazines for free too, it's $36 there, $40 there. I think I'll just steal F1-racing...

Why is internet media less valid. They'll be free sites, in relation they'll be crap.

Welcome to life.

Then again I'm speaking as one who grabbed an Atlas year for $18 thanks to a recent offer

--

As far as forix goes this is superb news to me. I'd been a little worried about the future of that place for a while so this is a welcome reassurence as to its future.

I wonder though, will there be a semi-lo-cost CD of forix or a chance for subscribers to easily download the lot. I'd love to have it as a reference medium without constantly hitting the site.

[Hotwheels]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Someone mentioned "quality" adverts - where do you draw the line? Do you try to make the advertising you take "relevant"? What is "relevant"? Only racing-based suppliers like tyre companies? Or do you include sponsors like (say) Red Bull? Orange? Vodafone? Before you know it, you're in a whole different ballgame ....

Buford:

Well i doubt if i will see ads for Walt Disney on Atlas F1 - but taking into account that this would be male dominated / 15- 40 age / F1 fans / the companies who feel their product fits into these broad parameters would come in.

Than of course the top dollar wins - and the fact that technically how many ads can be supported etc.

You ever been on a gaming site ?? Pogo for example ? After every 2 or 3 games a 20 second ad pops up on the screen - over 100000 people play there a day - no one is complaining , as these keeps the site free.

[The Kanisteri]

Great news for us AtlasF1 subscribers but not so great for non-subscribers.

Anyway, cool thing.

[mahelgel]

This is the only webpage i subscribe to, and this is excaltly why.... The Atlasf1 "team" continues to develop this place to be better and better each year

Originally posted by Vunz
Atlas is getting more and more a monopolist position on the internet F1 information, what's next? Integrating Schlegelmilch for the best F1 photoshots? Providing the best F1 videoclips and gradually raising the annual subscription fee too $100? This thing is getting out of hand, another great site behind the ticket booth.

I for one would have loved even more (and higer res) pictures, and videoclips had been great (as tv coverage is rather bad where i live). But i DO se you're point about rising subscription fees.

Perhaps if such services would be introduced, they could have a "news and magazine only subscription" and a "full blown subscription" at a higher fee. I for one would probably opt for the full blown subscription.

[karlth]

"... with plans in place to add laptimes of races several years back,"



FOCA next bira?

[Tazio Nuvolari]

I think its a great idea merging the 2

Those that are moaning about the fact its not going to be free would you rather see Forix die ?? all those millions of man hours put to waste, because that sounds like what would have happened but for Atlas' intervention, too many people expect something for nothing in this world, as for the subject of getting a sponsor or advertising it is near as hell impossible in this day and age, Pitpass, one of the most popular F1 sites on the entire net have been trying for nearly a year to get one so its not a case of just sending an e mail and seconds later getting £10,000, dream on

The alternative to subscription for the likes of Atlas and Forix is extinction

Anyone who doesn't subscribe then as far as I am concerned tough, stop moaning about it because from what you are saying you are prepared to see quality sites like Forix go to the wall because of your selfishness, there is no such thing as a free lunch now

[Mosquito]

Great news, really

And of course we have the usual suspects jumping on the whiner's wagon again. Oh well. You are missing out on 2 fantastic sources of F1 information on the net available. It's you choice to spend your money on stuff like booze and such or not. I only pitty those who really don't have the money to pay for it.

And for those 'principalists' out there: Up yours! Did you EVER visit a GP? Did you REALLY pay ludicrous $$$ to the Bernie circus for sitting on cold concrete or crawling through the mud? Shouldn't your principals have kept you from doing that?

[Slick]

Firstly $36 for most people is hardly going to break the bank, secondly, for all those who think F1 websites should be free, I challenge you to come up with a site with as much depth, quality and quantity of articles, news etc. etc. and make it free.

Atlas was very close to going belly up a couple of years ago I believe and the subscription model was the only way forward. Where would we be without atlas.

This place is my internet home and I have a great deal of respect for the people who run this place. The comments which appear to be aimed directly at Bira and Joeo are really hard to swallow.

Yes complain if you must that you can't afford to subscribe, but please don't take it out on the folks who put a lot of time into a fanstastic website.

In my honest opinion, they and the site are worth every penny and probably a lot more.

[byrkus]

OK, here is one silly question from one of two FORIX's translators into slovenian language. If I do not subscribe to FORIX (which is fairly possible, I'm afraid...), am I still intitled as a translator?? And if I am, does that automatically mean, that I'm still able to access FORIX, eventhough without paying??

I hope I was clear enough, english is really not my strong language...;)

[troyf1]

I shouldn't be surprised by this because anything Atlas does is done first class. Hard to think of a overall better partnership. Good stuff

[wati]

I am not paying for Atlas, now you're taking away FORIX also.

Wattie

[Tazio Nuvolari]

Whats with all the pathetic moaning about cost

A subscription to the magazine and the best stats site in the entire net will cost the same as the cost of a can of coca cola every week, that is hardly 2nd mortgage territory

Those that are moaning can afford a cable internet connection in the majority of cases yet can't afford 60p a week apparently

[Chris G.]

Atlasf1 employees work hard so I can spend a large percentage of my life vegging-out on the site.

Well worth the investment.

[Vrba]

In order not to be misunderstood:
I have an enormous respect for both sites, Atlas and Forix and all the people there. In fact, I was the one who translated Forix into Croatian and wrote some articles for it in the past.
I'm the first who will enjoy seeing the sites thrive.
But somehow, I am opposed to pay-per-view anywhere, be it television or Internet. There must be a means of taking money form ones who really do have it too much and not from the readers.

Hrvoje