Some infos on the 3-litre 1911/12 Koechlin racer at :
http://www.koechlin.net/bk/bk46_01.htm
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Raoul de Rovin at :
http://www.ifrance.c...HOMME/index.htm
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Cottin-Desgouttes at :
http://cottindesgout...ompetitions.htm
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Bédélia at :
http://perso.wanadoo...toupie/bedelia/
Links: Koechlin/de Rovin/Cottin-Desgouttes/Bédélia
Started by
robert dick
, Dec 27 2002 10:27
11 replies to this topic
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#2
fines
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Posted 27 December 2002 - 14:04
WOW, great sites!!! Wish my French was better... 
#4
fines
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Posted 27 December 2002 - 21:05
Interesting info: The winner of the first auto race was Paul Koechlin, and he immediately retired from the sport. My French is not good enough to understand exactly why, maybe someone can help out? However, it was his brother Isaac who later competed in several other races, and of whom we know the entertaining story of his dive into a canal near Maastricht and his subsequent appearance in childs clothes for the special train. I always thought this bo the same person!
I found another interesting site in French, http://www.gpavantguerre.fr.st/
I found another interesting site in French, http://www.gpavantguerre.fr.st/
#5
robert dick
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Posted 28 December 2002 - 10:27
Isaac Koechlin bought a Mancelle from Amédée Bollée, delivered in May 1879. The steamer remained in the family for over 20 years.
Isaac’s son Paul Koechlin started in the 1895 Paris-Bordeaux race, at the tiller of Peugeot no. 16, with Rubichon as riding mechanic (he was declared winner since the Panhard of Levassor was only a two-seater).
Paul’s brother, Isaac Koechlin Jr., drove a Peugeot in the March 1898 race from Marseille to Nice and finished fourth. Then in July 1898 in the Paris – Amsterdam race Isaac Jr. was too fast in a bad corner and landed in the moat of the Washartel castle near Maastricht. He found some dry clothes which were too small for him. For the rest of the journey he took the train which went with the race and there he met Armand Peugeot: “I had to throw away my suit and could not find anything better.”
Isaac Jr. drove again a Peugeot in the March 1899 race from Nice to Castellane, and in March 1901 from Nice to Draguignan.
Meanwhile Paul built his own aeroplanes and in April 1910 opened a flying school at Mourmelon. He lost his life in the bataille de la Somme in 1916.
Alfred-Georges Koechlin drove a Renault-Schneider (no relation to Renault) in the 1909 Coupe des Voiturettes in Boulogne. In 1911, with his brother Georges-Hubert and the Swiss engineer Sigmund Gerster, he decided to build his own 3-litre racer (89/120 mm, 2-cycle, rotary valve inlet). The car was built in Neuilly, rue Albert de Vatimesnil number 8. The Koechlin did not start in the Coupe de l’Auto, neither in 1911 nor in 1912. In September 1912 it started in the GP de France at Le Mans (3-litre class); in lap 2 a rear spring broke. In October 1912, in Gaillon, a friend (who was chemist) adviced to add some nitroglycerin to the fuel - the engine exploded.
Isaac’s son Paul Koechlin started in the 1895 Paris-Bordeaux race, at the tiller of Peugeot no. 16, with Rubichon as riding mechanic (he was declared winner since the Panhard of Levassor was only a two-seater).
Paul’s brother, Isaac Koechlin Jr., drove a Peugeot in the March 1898 race from Marseille to Nice and finished fourth. Then in July 1898 in the Paris – Amsterdam race Isaac Jr. was too fast in a bad corner and landed in the moat of the Washartel castle near Maastricht. He found some dry clothes which were too small for him. For the rest of the journey he took the train which went with the race and there he met Armand Peugeot: “I had to throw away my suit and could not find anything better.”
Isaac Jr. drove again a Peugeot in the March 1899 race from Nice to Castellane, and in March 1901 from Nice to Draguignan.
Meanwhile Paul built his own aeroplanes and in April 1910 opened a flying school at Mourmelon. He lost his life in the bataille de la Somme in 1916.
Alfred-Georges Koechlin drove a Renault-Schneider (no relation to Renault) in the 1909 Coupe des Voiturettes in Boulogne. In 1911, with his brother Georges-Hubert and the Swiss engineer Sigmund Gerster, he decided to build his own 3-litre racer (89/120 mm, 2-cycle, rotary valve inlet). The car was built in Neuilly, rue Albert de Vatimesnil number 8. The Koechlin did not start in the Coupe de l’Auto, neither in 1911 nor in 1912. In September 1912 it started in the GP de France at Le Mans (3-litre class); in lap 2 a rear spring broke. In October 1912, in Gaillon, a friend (who was chemist) adviced to add some nitroglycerin to the fuel - the engine exploded.
#6
fines
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Posted 28 December 2002 - 12:02
I believe the article says that it's unlikely it's the same Paul, for he would be 60-something by now. No proof, though.Originally posted by robert dick
Meanwhile Paul built his own aeroplanes and in April 1910 opened a flying school at Mourmelon. He lost his life in the bataille de la Somme in 1916.
#7
fines
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Posted 28 December 2002 - 13:03
A picture of Paul Koechlin:
... and Isaac Koechlin:
(both taken at Robert Peugeot's marriage on Aug 7, 1895 in Audincourt).
... and Isaac Koechlin:
(both taken at Robert Peugeot's marriage on Aug 7, 1895 in Audincourt).
#8
robert dick
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Posted 29 December 2002 - 10:23
Paul Koechlin :
There are two of them – the first one born in 1852, the second in 1881.
The first Paul should be the Peugeot driver of 1895 Paris – Bordeaux, the second one the aeronaute.
There are two of them – the first one born in 1852, the second in 1881.
The first Paul should be the Peugeot driver of 1895 Paris – Bordeaux, the second one the aeronaute.
#9
fines
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Posted 05 March 2003 - 01:03
News from the Koechlins
Paul Koechlin, the winner of the 1895 Paris - Bordeaux - Paris race, was not born in 1852, as stated on the Koechlin website http://www.koechlin.net/bk/bk46_01.htm (that was another Paul Koechlin, b. Jun 2), but on Aug 5 in 1870. He died Jan 20 in 1929.
His brother Isaac, who raced well into the new century, was born Sep 24 in 1868, and died Sep 28 in 1916. Their father Isaac (Sr.), the owner of the Amédée Bollée "Mancelle", was born Jan 15 in 1841 - I could not find a death date.
Another mistake on the Koechlin site is about the entry of Georges-Hubert Koechlin in the 1912 Grand Prix Voiturette class - he was already dead by then (b. Jun 14 in 1888, d. Jul 27 in 1911!). Confusion seems to stem from the fact that the older brother's full name was Alfred George Hubert Koechlin, and the younger one's Georges Hubert Marcel Koechlin! They had two more brothers, Hubert Marcel Daniel and Marcel Bernard Jacques, the latter the one mentioned on the Koechlin website as having died shortly before the race (actually, my source http://www.geneanet....;m=N;v=koechlin says he died the same day as the race).
Now comes the difficult part: how were they related?
For starters, Alfred-Georges father was Georges Maximilien Koechlin, and his mother Laure... Koechlin! That is, her birth name was also Koechlin
, which by the way wasn't that unusual in this family: Their eldest daughter also married a Koechlin, and a younger sister of Isaac and Paul, too! And the oldest sister of Georges Maximilien married one Jules Kullmann, who may or may not have been related to Eugénie Anna Kullmann, the mother of... Isaac and Paul Koechlin!
But, to be sure we have to look at Laure Koechlin, who was a third cousin of Isaac (Sr.) Koechlin and... the 1852-born Paul Koechlin! The world's so small...
What about the Peugeot connection?
There are two, actually: The one mentioned on the Koechlin site, Catherine "Jenny" Peugeot, who in 1857 married Napoléon Max Koechlin, a cousin of Georges Maximilien's father, and Jules Gaston "Eugène" Peugeot, the cousin of Armand and co-founder of "Les Fils de Peugeot Frères", who in 1869 married Hélène Marie Koechlin, the daughter of Emile Koechlin and Salomé Koechlin, born Koechlin... the sister of Isaac (Sr.) Koechlin's father! So Paul, who worked for Peugeot, and Isaac (perhaps as well on their payroll), the racing drivers, were second cousins of Robert Peugeot, the head of "SA des Automobiles & Cycles Peugeot" in their heyday, 1910-28. That's why they're on the wedding picture of Robert and Jeanne Japy in 1895.
Oh, and by the way, if you look at this girl:
That's Suzanne Japy, probably a sister of the bride... and the future Mrs. Paul Koechlin! Marriage Oct 22 the following year
Paul Koechlin, the winner of the 1895 Paris - Bordeaux - Paris race, was not born in 1852, as stated on the Koechlin website http://www.koechlin.net/bk/bk46_01.htm (that was another Paul Koechlin, b. Jun 2), but on Aug 5 in 1870. He died Jan 20 in 1929.
His brother Isaac, who raced well into the new century, was born Sep 24 in 1868, and died Sep 28 in 1916. Their father Isaac (Sr.), the owner of the Amédée Bollée "Mancelle", was born Jan 15 in 1841 - I could not find a death date.
Another mistake on the Koechlin site is about the entry of Georges-Hubert Koechlin in the 1912 Grand Prix Voiturette class - he was already dead by then (b. Jun 14 in 1888, d. Jul 27 in 1911!). Confusion seems to stem from the fact that the older brother's full name was Alfred George Hubert Koechlin, and the younger one's Georges Hubert Marcel Koechlin! They had two more brothers, Hubert Marcel Daniel and Marcel Bernard Jacques, the latter the one mentioned on the Koechlin website as having died shortly before the race (actually, my source http://www.geneanet....;m=N;v=koechlin says he died the same day as the race).
Now comes the difficult part: how were they related?
For starters, Alfred-Georges father was Georges Maximilien Koechlin, and his mother Laure... Koechlin! That is, her birth name was also Koechlin
, which by the way wasn't that unusual in this family: Their eldest daughter also married a Koechlin, and a younger sister of Isaac and Paul, too! And the oldest sister of Georges Maximilien married one Jules Kullmann, who may or may not have been related to Eugénie Anna Kullmann, the mother of... Isaac and Paul Koechlin!But, to be sure we have to look at Laure Koechlin, who was a third cousin of Isaac (Sr.) Koechlin and... the 1852-born Paul Koechlin! The world's so small...
What about the Peugeot connection?
There are two, actually: The one mentioned on the Koechlin site, Catherine "Jenny" Peugeot, who in 1857 married Napoléon Max Koechlin, a cousin of Georges Maximilien's father, and Jules Gaston "Eugène" Peugeot, the cousin of Armand and co-founder of "Les Fils de Peugeot Frères", who in 1869 married Hélène Marie Koechlin, the daughter of Emile Koechlin and Salomé Koechlin, born Koechlin... the sister of Isaac (Sr.) Koechlin's father! So Paul, who worked for Peugeot, and Isaac (perhaps as well on their payroll), the racing drivers, were second cousins of Robert Peugeot, the head of "SA des Automobiles & Cycles Peugeot" in their heyday, 1910-28. That's why they're on the wedding picture of Robert and Jeanne Japy in 1895.
Oh, and by the way, if you look at this girl:
That's Suzanne Japy, probably a sister of the bride... and the future Mrs. Paul Koechlin! Marriage Oct 22 the following year
#10
Reinhard Windeler
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Posted 11 September 2003 - 19:36
Well done, Robert and Michael! 
Before I came across this thread I haven't known the first name of automobile racing's first winner. Furthermore I have to realize there were at least three racing Koechlins instead of only one (with a suspected long career between 1895 and 1913).
Apart from Paul Koechlin - that is easy to understand! -, have I got it right this way:
When there is a Koechlin appearing in entry lists between 1898 and 1903 (for races such as Bordeaux - Biarritz 1898 & 1899, Paris - Bordeaux 1899, Nice - Marseille 1900, Paris - Berlin 1901, Paris- Vienna 1902 and the ill-fated Paris - Madrid 1903) it is always Isaac Koechlin jr. (even when driving a Gobron-Brillié)?
When there is a Koechlin appearing in entry lists between 1909 and 1913 (at Boulogne, Ostende and Le Mans) it is always Alfred Koechlin?
Can you confirm this? (That would fill a few gaps.)
Finally, a bold question: Is there any connection to Jorge Koechlin, 1950-born Peruvian racing driver of the early 80's (two respectable showings at the 1982 British Formula 1 championship)?
Before I came across this thread I haven't known the first name of automobile racing's first winner. Furthermore I have to realize there were at least three racing Koechlins instead of only one (with a suspected long career between 1895 and 1913).
Apart from Paul Koechlin - that is easy to understand! -, have I got it right this way:
When there is a Koechlin appearing in entry lists between 1898 and 1903 (for races such as Bordeaux - Biarritz 1898 & 1899, Paris - Bordeaux 1899, Nice - Marseille 1900, Paris - Berlin 1901, Paris- Vienna 1902 and the ill-fated Paris - Madrid 1903) it is always Isaac Koechlin jr. (even when driving a Gobron-Brillié)?
When there is a Koechlin appearing in entry lists between 1909 and 1913 (at Boulogne, Ostende and Le Mans) it is always Alfred Koechlin?
Can you confirm this? (That would fill a few gaps.)
Finally, a bold question: Is there any connection to Jorge Koechlin, 1950-born Peruvian racing driver of the early 80's (two respectable showings at the 1982 British Formula 1 championship)?
#11
robert dick
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Posted 12 September 2003 - 08:23
According to the Koechlin website, Isaac Jr.'s last race was the 1901 Nice-Draguignan-Nice :
"L'année 1900 ne fut pas aussi favorable à Isaac qui probablement participa à quelques courses mais ne fit aucun résultat. Sa dernière victoire eut lieu lors du Nice-Draguignan-Nice le 21 mars 1901. Il termina premier en 3 heures 11 minutes et 11 secondes devant une Serpollet.
Il semble que cette course ait été la dernière à laquelle aient participé Isaac Koechlin ou d'autres membres de la famille, et ce pour plusieurs années."
= = = = =
No idea if Jorge Koechlin is related to "our" Alsacian Koechlins.
"L'année 1900 ne fut pas aussi favorable à Isaac qui probablement participa à quelques courses mais ne fit aucun résultat. Sa dernière victoire eut lieu lors du Nice-Draguignan-Nice le 21 mars 1901. Il termina premier en 3 heures 11 minutes et 11 secondes devant une Serpollet.
Il semble que cette course ait été la dernière à laquelle aient participé Isaac Koechlin ou d'autres membres de la famille, et ce pour plusieurs années."
= = = = =
No idea if Jorge Koechlin is related to "our" Alsacian Koechlins.
#12
fines
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Posted 12 September 2003 - 16:18
Isaac Koechlin was selling Gobron-Brillié cars by 1902, and at least through 1906, according to these sales catalogues. Now, if it is the same Isaac Koechlin, who's to say?
