13 replies to this topic

[uechtel]

The race programme of the 1960 German Grand Prix (Formula 2 race) has a page about the constructor´s world championship for Formula 2 cars ("Weltmeisterschafts-Pokal der Konstrukteure, Rennwagen Formel 2" in German), a thing I have never heard of so far!

It is stated, that the cup went to Cooper in 1958 and 1959 and the current standings are given as following:

1. Cooper 25 Points
2. Porsche 18 Points
3. Ferrari 8 Points
4. Lotus 4 Points

with the races at Syracuse, Bruxelles, Pau and Aintree already run.

And then there is also a driver´s table:

1. Trintignant 18 Points
2. Brabham 16 Points
3. Moss 14 Points
4. Gendebien 9 Points
5. von Trips 8 Points
...

To confuse me completely the page ends with the current standings in "The Autocar Formula 2 championship":

1. Brabham 18 Points
2. Ireland 14 Points
3. Lawton 13 Points
4. Salvadori 10 Points
5. Surtees 9 Points
...


So just two (or three?) further inofficial championship "inventions", intended to add some value to this second-rate event (only a Formula 2 race that year), or really an officially awarded title?

Which other races did count towards this championship?

[Vitesse2]

The Autocar Championship was essentially a British domestic F2 title: champions were -

1957 Tony Marsh
1958 Jack Brabham
1959 Stirling Moss
1960 Jack Lewis
1964 Mike Spence
1965 Jim Clark
1966 Jack Brabham
1967 Alan Rees

In 1967 there was also another British F2 Championship, won by Jochen Rindt.

The Autocar lapsed after this, but there was also a John Player British F2 Championship in 1972 only, won by Niki Lauda.

[ensign14]

Per Sheldon volume 7 p. 64:

"The Formula 2 Championship received remarkably little publicity at the time, possibly because it was over almost before it had started..."

The only other round was the German GP; the points were awarded 8-6-4-3-2-1, with best 4 scores to count. The final points standings were as follows:

1. Brabham (20 points)
2. Trintignant (18)
3= Bonnier, Moss, von Trips (14)
6. Gendebien (9)
7. Hill G (7)
8. Frere (5)
9= Flockhart, Ireland, Schell, Surtees (3)
13= Herrmann, Marsh (2)
15= Barth, Bristow, Schlesser (1)

Constructors:

1= Cooper, Porsche (26)
3. Ferrari (8)
4. Lotus (3)

No tie break was made between Cooper and Porsche, but the former would have won had one been applied (they had dropped 3 points but otherwise matched Porsche's score).

No idea about the Autocar championship, Lawton won the Norfolk Trophy and runner-up in the Crystal Palace Trophy so I assume either one of those was a round (or there was a different scoring system applied); it may not have been limited to British races, but to British/Commonwealth drivers?

[Rob29]

Originally posted by ensign14
Per Sheldon volume 7 p. 64:

"The Formula 2 Championship received remarkably little publicity at the time, possibly because it was over almost before it had started..."

The only other round was the German GP; the points were awarded 8-6-4-3-2-1, with best 4 scores to count. The final points standings were as follows:

1. Brabham (20 points)
2. Trintignant (18)
3= Bonnier, Moss, von Trips (14)
6. Gendebien (9)
7. Hill G (7)
8. Frere (5)
9= Flockhart, Ireland, Schell, Surtees (3)
13= Herrmann, Marsh (2)
15= Barth, Bristow, Schlesser (1)

I suspect that this is a work of fiction by Sheldon. Don't have vol7,but my Autocourse 1960 refers only to a Manufacturers Championship which agrees with my memory of the time which is that there was no official FIA F2 drivers' championship until 1967. There was a French one'Les Grands Prix des France' in 1952,59 & 1964-67.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Rob29
I suspect that this is a work of fiction by Sheldon.

Cannot be entirely Sheldon, unless he edited the 1960 German GP programme...

[David McKinney]

My recollection is that there was an official international F2 championship in 1960 - but not before. I would need to do a bit more digging to produce evidence.

As far as the Autocar series is concerned, this was open to all British drivers, which almost by definition in those days included drivers from the Commonwealth. This is how Brabham and McLaren got ro win the first two places in the 1958 series. Points were allocated on selected races on a sliding scale according to race-distance. Thus Tony Marsh, with maximum points from the F2 section of the relevant German GP (and not a lot else) was winner in 1957

[Rob29]

Originally posted by ensign14
Cannot be entirely Sheldon, unless he edited the 1960 German GP programme...

True. Which leaves the question who DID create it? Do championships created by magazines count? In 1956 Autocourse created a World Sports Car Drivers Championshp (won by Castellotti) many years before there was an official one.
I even made up a World F3 championship,myself around 1967, which was published in Autosport.

[uechtel]

According to the race programme it seems, that the constructor´s championship was an official thing, at least in 1960, but probably also in 1958/59. And I think the driver´s table is more or less inofficial based on the same points calculations.

And thank you for your info about the Autocar championship. Of course a championship ponts system should be as transparent and easy as possible in order to take effect on the public. I think, the AUtocar Formula 2 championship is a good example for that...

But I like weird things like that anyway.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by David McKinney


As far as the Autocar series is concerned, this was open to all British drivers, which almost by definition in those days included drivers from the Commonwealth. This is how Brabham and McLaren got ro win the first two places in the 1958 series. Points were allocated on selected races on a sliding scale according to race-distance. Thus Tony Marsh, with maximum points from the F2 section of the relevant German GP (and not a lot else) was winner in 1957

Sounds like this championship may have been in some way related to the BRDC Gold Star,which used the strange scoring system,under which the number of points depended on the lengh of the race. All BRDC members were eligable for this,which meant any citizen of a comonwealth country.

[fines]

... and a bit like the Tarmac British Racing Championship! FYI, here's a list of the winners:

1972 Frank Gardner
1973 Frank Gardner
1974 Stuart Graham
1975 Stuart Graham
1976 James Hunt
1977 James Hunt
1978 Gordon Spice
1979 Alan Jones
1980 Alan Jones

[ensign14]

Originally posted by fines
... and a bit like the Tarmac British Racing Championship!

The points system for this was as follows:

basic = 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1;

x2 for F1 World Championship races, Le Mans 24 Hours, Spa 24 Hours and Indy 500;

open to Commonwealth drivers with RAC licences;

and the rounds were all British international races, FIA International Championships and 'certain' other selected races.

Only British races counted until 1977.

Source: Kettlewell, Motor Racing Directory, 1979 (I think they still have some at Mill House Books for a song, well worth getting this and the following year's edition, a veritable potpourri of unusual info and pictures. Where else can you find who won the Marchant & Cox Lydden Formula Ford 1600 title in 1976?).

[fines]

Tony Halliwell?;)

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Rob29
the BRDC Gold Star....used the strange scoring system,under which the number of points depended on the lengh of the race. All BRDC members were eligable for this,which meant any citizen of a comonwealth country.

I'm sure that membership requirements for the BRDC were as strict then as they are now, in that you have to qualify for election on the basis of results achieved in a certain number of races of a certain status.
However, it is unlikely that any possible contenders for the Gold Star would not have been BRDC members

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by uechtel
According to the race programme it seems, that the constructor´s championship was an official thing, at least in 1960, but probably also in 1958/59. And I think the driver´s table is more or less inofficial based on the same points calculations.

THere was an official F2 constructor's championship in 1958, 59 and 60.