1894 Paris-Rouen.
Just what do we know about the entry for this event?
102 entries. 21 starters. That's an awful lot of dns's. What were these non-starters? How many of them actually existed? How many of them attempted to qualify?
From http://perso.club-in...rsin/pdgve3.htm
69 cars actually paid entry fee, 25 took part in the elimination trial.
And this list of the motive power units:
moteurs à pétrole : 30
moteurs à vapeur : 28
moteurs à gazoline : 7
moteurs automatiques: 5
moteurs électriques : 4
moteurs à air comprimé : 4
moteurs à leviers : 13
moteurs hydrauliques : 3
moteurs à balanciers : 2
moteurs à eau comprimée : 1
à gaz comprimé : 1
à essence minérale : 1
à pétroles combinés : 1
à systèmes de leviers multiples : 1
mécaniques : 1
à liquides combinés : 1
à vapeur combinée : 1
électro-pneumatiques : 1
à gaz et pesanteur :1
à pédales :1
(I make that 107).
So much detail here that someone must have a complete list of entrants?
1894 and all that
Started by
roger_valentine
, Jan 05 2003 13:52
21 replies to this topic
Advertisement
#2
Egon Thurner
-
- 305 posts
- Joined: November 00
Member
Posted 05 January 2003 - 14:04
Welcome, Roger
This is from our member Quintin Cloud's Site:
Entrys to the event but Did not Start:
Pousselet
Pellorce
Roussat
Hidien
Victor Popp
Klaus
Tenting
Quantin
Rodier
Periere
Lestar
Gaillardet
Vurennes
Coquatrix
Leval
Peugeot Peugeot
Darras
Geoffrey
Gillot
Loubiere
Duchemin
Ponset
Lenroigne
Bargigli
Spanoghe
Corniquet
Martin Cudrez
Vacheron Benz Petrol Powered
Roger Benz Benz Petrol Powered
This is from our member Quintin Cloud's Site:
Entrys to the event but Did not Start:
Pousselet
Pellorce
Roussat
Hidien
Victor Popp
Klaus
Tenting
Quantin
Rodier
Periere
Lestar
Gaillardet
Vurennes
Coquatrix
Leval
Peugeot Peugeot
Darras
Geoffrey
Gillot
Loubiere
Duchemin
Ponset
Lenroigne
Bargigli
Spanoghe
Corniquet
Martin Cudrez
Vacheron Benz Petrol Powered
Roger Benz Benz Petrol Powered
#3
roger_valentine
-
- 208 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 05 January 2003 - 14:43
The Victor Popp car, I gather, was driven by compressed air.
I have also seen mention of:
Carli (electric)
Baricycle, which might be the 'multiple levers' or the 'pedals'
The Car of the Future (English entry)
I have also seen mention of:
Carli (electric)
Baricycle, which might be the 'multiple levers' or the 'pedals'
The Car of the Future (English entry)
#4
robert dick
-
- 1,314 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 07 January 2003 - 10:00
1894 Paris - Rouen entry list (from Pierre Souvestre - Histoire de l'Automobile - Paris/1907) :
#5
quintin cloud
-
- 4,649 posts
- Joined: June 00
Member
Posted 07 January 2003 - 14:41
Thanks for the post Robert, 
:up: as what is noted the http://perso.club-in...rsin/pdgve3.htm is the all data that is known about the event the qualifying of the endo was in three parts:
1: Was the horseless cart safe to control and no danger to the pubic and the driver and passengers. Inwhich many cars feel out.
2: Was the horseless cart able to complete 50km or 30.5 miles course in 4 hours.
3: And ofcourse the entry fee.
But one interesting fact is that there was attempt to have the endo race in the 1880's (86-7??) already but only driver to enter was Count de Dion and the event was called off.
:up: as what is noted the http://perso.club-in...rsin/pdgve3.htm is the all data that is known about the event the qualifying of the endo was in three parts:1: Was the horseless cart safe to control and no danger to the pubic and the driver and passengers. Inwhich many cars feel out.
2: Was the horseless cart able to complete 50km or 30.5 miles course in 4 hours.
3: And ofcourse the entry fee.
But one interesting fact is that there was attempt to have the endo race in the 1880's (86-7??) already but only driver to enter was Count de Dion and the event was called off.
#6
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 07 January 2003 - 16:23
Interesting the #100 M. Bellanger... about six decades later, Murrell Belanger would become much more famous with his #99... 
#7
roger_valentine
-
- 208 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 11 January 2003 - 20:01
Thank you Robert. I'm really pleased to see the complete entry list at last.
Confirmation there of the Baricycle. Does anyone know what this was? I have visions of one those 4-wheel pedelo-type vehicles frequently seen at seaside resorts. Is anything known about any of the other vehicles?
OK, so the next question - as Quintin says, there were 3 phases of elimination:
the entry fee
the mechanical check - presumably the forerunner of scrutineering
the qualifying run
Which vehicles were eliminated at each of these phases?
Confirmation there of the Baricycle. Does anyone know what this was? I have visions of one those 4-wheel pedelo-type vehicles frequently seen at seaside resorts. Is anything known about any of the other vehicles?
OK, so the next question - as Quintin says, there were 3 phases of elimination:
the entry fee
the mechanical check - presumably the forerunner of scrutineering
the qualifying run
Which vehicles were eliminated at each of these phases?
#8
ensign14
-
- 63,975 posts
- Joined: December 01
Member
Posted 11 January 2003 - 22:16
*ahem* Using the Rose I picked up at the NEC today... 
The 'baricycle' was 'moved by the weight of the passengers' - needless to say, it was a DNA, along with all entries which were not petrol or steam.
The rules were that each car had to finish a preliminary trial of 50km in 3 hours (later amended to 4 hours as 10mph was considered dangerously high). Other than that it should also be automotive.
Timetable:
1.7.94 - original date of run to Rouen
7.7.94 - revised date of the run to Rouen to allow the owner of Le Petit Journal to be present (well, he was donating some of the trophies, after all - the first sponsor?; later postpoined to 22.7
18.7.94 - exhibition of entrants - 26 showed up
19.7.94 - start of eliminating trials; over 5 routes as follows:
Paris-St Germain-Flins-Mantes (cars numbered 3, 13, 21, 30); 29 miles
Paris-Poissy-Triel-Mantes (cars numbered 10, 15, 28); unknown distance
Paris-Versailles-Dampierre-Rambouilet (7, 18, 19, 42); 31 miles
Paris-Versailles-Palaiseau-Corbeil (4, 27, 29); 35 miles
Paris-Gennevilliers-Isle Adam-Precy sur Oise (12, 14, 31); 32 miles
Eliminated (because of DNFs) were 3, 12, 21, 29
21.7.94: final eliminating trials as follows:
Paris-Bezons-Houilles-Maisons Laffitte (!)-Mantes (44, 60, 64, 65)
Paris-Corbeil (presumably as above) (61, 85)
All qualified
22.7.94 - actual date of the run to Rouen because of lack of readiness of many of the entrants
Full results of the time trial:
1st 4 (de Dion) 6h48
2nd 65 (Lemaitre) 6h51
3rd 28 (Doriot) 7h04
4th 13 (Panhard) 7h21
5th 15 (Levassor) 7h43
6th 31 (Kraentler) 7h46
7th 64 (Mayade) 8h09
8th 42 (Le Brun) 8h12
9th 30 (Michaud) 8h25
10th 14 (Dubois) 8h38
11th 17 (Rogoulot) 8h41
12th 24 (Vacheron) 8h42
13th 53 (de Brourmont) 8h51
14th 85 (Roger) 10h01
15th 60 (le Blant) 10h43
16th 7 (Gautier) 12h24
17th 18 (Archdeacon) 13h (at a whopping 6.1mph)
DNF: 10 (boiler explosion), 61, 18, 44 – the last numbered being the first retirement due to a damaged axle
The prizes were awarded as follows:
1st – equally to Panhard-Levassor and Peugeot
2nd (sic) – de Dion, penalized for being a 2 man operation
3rd – Maurice le Blant, presumably for daring to enter an 8 seater bus (2 less seats than his brother Etienne, who was a retirer), or possibly for being kind enough to collect stranded drivers en route and bringing them to Rouen
4th – equally to Vacheron and le Brun
5th – Roger
Consolation prize for best retirer – Scotte
Honourable mention – de Montais
One pities Messrs de Bourmont and Gautier, as they were the only ones without prizes in this otherwise caucus race…
The 'baricycle' was 'moved by the weight of the passengers' - needless to say, it was a DNA, along with all entries which were not petrol or steam.
The rules were that each car had to finish a preliminary trial of 50km in 3 hours (later amended to 4 hours as 10mph was considered dangerously high). Other than that it should also be automotive.
Timetable:
1.7.94 - original date of run to Rouen
7.7.94 - revised date of the run to Rouen to allow the owner of Le Petit Journal to be present (well, he was donating some of the trophies, after all - the first sponsor?; later postpoined to 22.7
18.7.94 - exhibition of entrants - 26 showed up
19.7.94 - start of eliminating trials; over 5 routes as follows:
Paris-St Germain-Flins-Mantes (cars numbered 3, 13, 21, 30); 29 miles
Paris-Poissy-Triel-Mantes (cars numbered 10, 15, 28); unknown distance
Paris-Versailles-Dampierre-Rambouilet (7, 18, 19, 42); 31 miles
Paris-Versailles-Palaiseau-Corbeil (4, 27, 29); 35 miles
Paris-Gennevilliers-Isle Adam-Precy sur Oise (12, 14, 31); 32 miles
Eliminated (because of DNFs) were 3, 12, 21, 29
21.7.94: final eliminating trials as follows:
Paris-Bezons-Houilles-Maisons Laffitte (!)-Mantes (44, 60, 64, 65)
Paris-Corbeil (presumably as above) (61, 85)
All qualified
22.7.94 - actual date of the run to Rouen because of lack of readiness of many of the entrants
Full results of the time trial:
1st 4 (de Dion) 6h48
2nd 65 (Lemaitre) 6h51
3rd 28 (Doriot) 7h04
4th 13 (Panhard) 7h21
5th 15 (Levassor) 7h43
6th 31 (Kraentler) 7h46
7th 64 (Mayade) 8h09
8th 42 (Le Brun) 8h12
9th 30 (Michaud) 8h25
10th 14 (Dubois) 8h38
11th 17 (Rogoulot) 8h41
12th 24 (Vacheron) 8h42
13th 53 (de Brourmont) 8h51
14th 85 (Roger) 10h01
15th 60 (le Blant) 10h43
16th 7 (Gautier) 12h24
17th 18 (Archdeacon) 13h (at a whopping 6.1mph)
DNF: 10 (boiler explosion), 61, 18, 44 – the last numbered being the first retirement due to a damaged axle
The prizes were awarded as follows:
1st – equally to Panhard-Levassor and Peugeot
2nd (sic) – de Dion, penalized for being a 2 man operation
3rd – Maurice le Blant, presumably for daring to enter an 8 seater bus (2 less seats than his brother Etienne, who was a retirer), or possibly for being kind enough to collect stranded drivers en route and bringing them to Rouen
4th – equally to Vacheron and le Brun
5th – Roger
Consolation prize for best retirer – Scotte
Honourable mention – de Montais
One pities Messrs de Bourmont and Gautier, as they were the only ones without prizes in this otherwise caucus race…
#9
Vitesse2
-
- 42,828 posts
- Joined: April 01
Administrator
Posted 11 January 2003 - 22:31
Originally posted by ensign14
*ahem* Using the Rose I picked up at the NEC today...
I'm almost afraid to ask how much you paid ....
#10
ensign14
-
- 63,975 posts
- Joined: December 01
Member
Posted 11 January 2003 - 23:40
The one I got was a reprint sans dustwrapper, so less than I was expecting. Still not seen an original outside the Bodleian.
There was one on Mike Horton's stand for £125, but it had been rebound...pop in & see what you can do...
There was one on Mike Horton's stand for £125, but it had been rebound...pop in & see what you can do...
#11
Milan Fistonic
-
- 1,769 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 00:55
There's a 1949 edition of the Rose book being auctioned on Ebay at the moment.
Check it out here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...item=2904123329
Check it out here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...item=2904123329
#12
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 00:57
Go for it, Richard!
"... it will be worth it!"
"... it will be worth it!"
#13
Vitesse2
-
- 42,828 posts
- Joined: April 01
Administrator
Posted 12 January 2003 - 12:07
Originally posted by fines
Go for it, Richard!
"... it will be worth it!"
It's currently at £77 and hasn't yet reached reserve, which I suspect will be about £100. Right now, I don't have that to spare ....
As for Hortons, my bank account is still recovering from the beating it took there at Goodwood!
#14
AndreasNystrom
-
- 785 posts
- Joined: December 01
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 13:02
strange, ive found an old book, which had this picture in it :
http://w1.131.telia....s/paris1895.jpg
and the book, says it was the first race to be done!.
but clearly now, it was a race in 1894 too then.
http://w1.131.telia....s/paris1895.jpg
and the book, says it was the first race to be done!.
but clearly now, it was a race in 1894 too then.
#15
Vitesse2
-
- 42,828 posts
- Joined: April 01
Administrator
Posted 12 January 2003 - 13:14
Originally posted by AndreasNystrom
strange, ive found an old book, which had this picture in it :
http://w1.131.telia....s/paris1895.jpg
and the book, says it was the first race to be done!.
but clearly now, it was a race in 1894 too then.
Indeed Andreas. Paris-Rouen was the catalyst for the longer city-to-city races which followed. It was organized by a magazine, but after the event had been a success, the leading drivers of the time - mostly aristocrats and rich businessmen - decided to set up a formal group to organize further races. They set up the first national automobile club, the AC de France, whose first event was the 1895 Paris-Bordeaux, so that could be considered the first "official" race.
#16
Alan Lewis
-
- 1,094 posts
- Joined: December 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 14:35
This thread has exhumed a withered old chestnut that's bugged me for years :
Everyone "knows" that the first "race" (yes it wasn't really a race, it was a trial, we know) in the world was 1894 Paris-Rouen, cos all the text books say so.
Also, many of them mention the 1887 event where de Dion was the only one to turn up (20th April, run by the magazine Le Velocipede if I recall). Presumably that wasn't subsequently recognised as the first race as he didn't actually race anyone.
But The Guinness Book of Records. for years and years, used to quote some event in the Great Lakes area of the US back in 1878ish which was "won by an Oshkosh Steamer". I see that the 2000 edition doesn't have the record listed at all any more but I'm sure there's someone out there with the older editions.
So, the big question which no-one could ever answer me was where the hell the GBOR got this info. from, that no book I've ever read even mentions in passing. Did it even happen? Why then is it ignored "in the trade"? Can it possibly be true that the GBOR is wrong (just my saying that's treason isn't it)?
Help?
APL
Everyone "knows" that the first "race" (yes it wasn't really a race, it was a trial, we know) in the world was 1894 Paris-Rouen, cos all the text books say so.
Also, many of them mention the 1887 event where de Dion was the only one to turn up (20th April, run by the magazine Le Velocipede if I recall). Presumably that wasn't subsequently recognised as the first race as he didn't actually race anyone.
But The Guinness Book of Records. for years and years, used to quote some event in the Great Lakes area of the US back in 1878ish which was "won by an Oshkosh Steamer". I see that the 2000 edition doesn't have the record listed at all any more but I'm sure there's someone out there with the older editions.
So, the big question which no-one could ever answer me was where the hell the GBOR got this info. from, that no book I've ever read even mentions in passing. Did it even happen? Why then is it ignored "in the trade"? Can it possibly be true that the GBOR is wrong (just my saying that's treason isn't it)?
Help?
APL
#17
Milan Fistonic
-
- 1,769 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 19:17
Originally posted by Alan Lewis
This thread has exhumed a withered old chestnut that's bugged me for years :
Everyone "knows" that the first "race" (yes it wasn't really a race, it was a trial, we know) in the world was 1894 Paris-Rouen, cos all the text books say so.
Also, many of them mention the 1887 event where de Dion was the only one to turn up (20th April, run by the magazine Le Velocipede if I recall). Presumably that wasn't subsequently recognised as the first race as he didn't actually race anyone.
But The Guinness Book of Records. for years and years, used to quote some event in the Great Lakes area of the US back in 1878ish which was "won by an Oshkosh Steamer". I see that the 2000 edition doesn't have the record listed at all any more but I'm sure there's someone out there with the older editions.
So, the big question which no-one could ever answer me was where the hell the GBOR got this info. from, that no book I've ever read even mentions in passing. Did it even happen? Why then is it ignored "in the trade"? Can it possibly be true that the GBOR is wrong (just my saying that's treason isn't it)?
Help?
APL
The "race" is listed in the Guinness Book of Car Facts & Feats as The first road race between mechanically propelled vehicles.
It took place in the USA in July 1878, seven years before the petrol engine was invented. Run over 201 miles between Green Bay and Madison, in Wisconsin, the contest included longhaul and ploughing tests as well as the race.
It attracted six entrants, all steam-powered, and two starters, both virtually road locomotives.
An Oshkosh built by Dr. J.Cathcart and driven by F. Shomer and A.M. Farrand won the race in 33 hours 27 minutes averaging 6 mph, while a Green Bay built and driven by E.P. Cowles retired 20 miles from the finish after covering part of the journey by railroad. The winner received $5000 prize-money.
#18
Alan Lewis
-
- 1,094 posts
- Joined: December 02
Member
Posted 12 January 2003 - 19:39
Thanks Milan, that's excellent.
Presumably then, the reason all the histories of the sport ignore it is that :
i. there were no internal combustion vehicles (which conveniently skips over the many alternatively powered machines that contested the early "Paris" events, not to mention the Chasseloup-Laubat and Jenatzy electrically powered World Land Speed Records and the Stanley Steamer that succeeded them - and indeed everything that's held the record since Breedlove, Arfons and friends)
ii. far more convincingly, it didn't lead to anything else very much whereas the 1894 Paris-Rouen, as has already been pointed out, certainly did.
APL
Presumably then, the reason all the histories of the sport ignore it is that :
i. there were no internal combustion vehicles (which conveniently skips over the many alternatively powered machines that contested the early "Paris" events, not to mention the Chasseloup-Laubat and Jenatzy electrically powered World Land Speed Records and the Stanley Steamer that succeeded them - and indeed everything that's held the record since Breedlove, Arfons and friends)
ii. far more convincingly, it didn't lead to anything else very much whereas the 1894 Paris-Rouen, as has already been pointed out, certainly did.
APL
#19
robert dick
-
- 1,314 posts
- Joined: October 02
Member
Posted 13 October 2003 - 10:23
Race report of the 1894 Paris - Rouen at :
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...133/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...134/100/532/0/0
description of the cars at :
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...202/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...203/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...204/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...205/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...206/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...133/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...134/100/532/0/0
description of the cars at :
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...202/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...203/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...204/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...205/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...206/100/532/0/0
#21
fines
-
- 9,647 posts
- Joined: September 00
Member
Posted 14 October 2003 - 15:43
Great find, Robert!Originally posted by robert dick
Race report of the 1894 Paris - Rouen at :
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...133/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...134/100/532/0/0
description of the cars at :
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...202/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...203/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...204/100/532/0/0
http://cnum.cnam.fr/...205/100/532/0/0
and http://cnum.cnam.fr/...206/100/532/0/0
A real treasure trove - I spent a couple of hours last night when I should have been sleeping :yawn:;) browsing the site - simply magnificent!!!
More than 60 volumes of the magazine in first class quality reproduction
#22
Hieronymus
-
- 2,032 posts
- Joined: May 02
Member
Posted 03 November 2004 - 06:32
It seems that this event was actually known as the "Concours du Petit Journal". This one can also read in the pages of "La Nature" that Robert Dick referred to. Also the front page of "Le Petit Journal" of 6 Aug. 1994 (illustrated supplement) refer to is as the "Concours du Petit Journal".
It will be interesting to know who actually first documented this event as the Paris-Rouen Trail (or its various other variants like Paris-Rouen Race, P-R Exibition Trail, P-R Run, etc, etc).
Personally I think the name "Concours du Petit Journal" is most fitting, since it describes a competition organised by this particular newspaper. Speed and racing was not much of a factor in this event, but rather engineering skills. The only "speed" connotation is the time criteria that was applicable in which the competitors had to finish.
It will be interesting to know who actually first documented this event as the Paris-Rouen Trail (or its various other variants like Paris-Rouen Race, P-R Exibition Trail, P-R Run, etc, etc).
Personally I think the name "Concours du Petit Journal" is most fitting, since it describes a competition organised by this particular newspaper. Speed and racing was not much of a factor in this event, but rather engineering skills. The only "speed" connotation is the time criteria that was applicable in which the competitors had to finish.
