14 replies to this topic

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Now how about something on namesake Christian Werner, as I received the following question by e-mail from Vermont:

Dear Sirs,

I am extremely interested in any information or pictures of Christian
Werner. My name is Christian Kerner, and my father and mother named me
after the famous driver who is my great uncle. My fathers mother maiden
name was Emma Werner. If you guys are interested I have a photo of his car
and pictures from his funeral. I can scan them in and send them to you. It
is hard finding english information on him, maybe I should pick up
german...lol

Of course, anyone willing to match his knowledge with Christian K's pictures is welcome to publish the result on 8W.

Christian Werner was the more famous of the Werners and is still to this day mixed up with Wilhelm Werner who raced in competition until 1905. Before someone else mentions it, there was also a Arthur Werner from Cannstadt (D) who appeared in very few events during 1926 and 1927 on a 1.5-liter NSU and a 1.5-liter s/c Mercedes.

Christian Werner (D), * May 19, 1892 in Stuttgart (D), † June 17, 1932 in Bad Cannstadt (D).
Christian Werner grew up as the oldest of five children. His father was a shoemaker and died when Christian was only ten. He served his apprentiship at the Misol Company in Cannstadt. After he became journeyman, he started to work for DMG on December 12, 1911 where he was known as a very talented mechanic. During WW I, Werner was drafted to the Pioneers where his natural ability to drive cars was acknowledged. Therefore, he often was assigned as driver and for a while he was entrusted as chauffeur for the Graf Zeppelin.

After the war he became an active member at the VfB Stuttgart as soccer player until his nasal bone was crushed at a soccer accident. In 1919 Christian Werner got married but his wife died already in 1923 after the first child. At the Daimler factory he had advanced to master and was transferred to their research department. His task was to get the racing cars ready for the first races after the war and to test-drive them as well. At Daimler it was known how well Werner could drive and he was chosen as driver for his first large race at the 1922 Targa Florio, where he came eighth. He was sent to the Romanian touring trial where he had two firsts, one second and came first at a special stage, the Klausenburg Climb. His greatest and most popular victory was the 1924 Targa Florio, known at that time as the hardest race in Europe. End of 1924, on November 20, he married again, a very pretty 19-year old girl from Endersbach in the Rems valley, where her parents owned an inn. His wife had not much of an opportunity to go to the races because in the next four years she had three children, two sons and one daughter. But his wife on occasion accompanied him to the Nürburgring, Solitude or Klausenpaß. Till 1930 he raced Mercedes and Mercedes-Benz cars only.

For some time Christian Werner had suffered from stomach problems and received helpful treatment from a homoeopath. In the summer of 1932, when only 40, he was advised to take a cure in the Black Forest. Early on during his cure he woke up one morning at 4 AM with heart problems, followed after 90 minutes by a heart attack. A doctor was called in these early morning hours only to diagnose his death. Christian Werner was buried in his home village Endersbach in the Rems valley, where he had built his own house after his great Sizilian victory. In the native tongue the house was called “Targa Florio-Villa”. Christian Werner’s widow used to live there still during the sixties.

Incomplete racing record of Christian Werner
1922, April 2: Targa Florio, 8th in Mercedes 28/95 hp
1922, June 19-24: Romanian Touring Trial, 1st in Mercedes 28/95 hp
1922, June (19-24) : Lugosch Sprint, 2nd in Mercedes 28/95 hp (part of Romanian Touring Trial)
1922, June (19-24) : Klausenburg Climb, 1st in Mercedes 28/95 hp (part of Romanian Touring Trial)
1923, May 30: INDIANAPOLIS 500, 11th in Mercedes
1924, April 27: Targa Florio, 1st in Mercedes 1924 TF
1924, April 27: Coppa Florio, 1st in Mercedes 1924 TF
1924, September 14: Semmering Climb, 1st in Mercedes
1925, July 19: Bleichröder-Rennen, 1st in Mercedes 2-liter
1925, August 16: Freiburg-Schauinsland Climb, 12.000 km, 1st in Mercedes
1925, August 16: Freiburg Kilometer Sprint, 1st in Mercedes
???? 1926, June 9: Baden-Baden sprint ?????
???? 1926, Bleichröder-Rennen, ?????
???? 1926, Baden-Baden, 1st place
1926, July 22: San Sebastian Touring GP, 1st with Gärtner in over 5000 cc class (Mercedes-Benz)
1926, July 31: Freiburg Kilometer Sprint, 2nd in Mercedes
1926, August 1: Freiburg-Schauinsland Climb, 12.000 km, 1st in Mercedes
1926, August 7: Klausen Urnerboden Kilometer sprint, 7th in racing car class
1926, August 8: Klausen Pass Climb, ????
1927, June 19: Nürburgring Inauguration – Racing Cars 1st in Mercedes-Benz GP
???? 1927, June 19: Nürburgring Inauguration – Sports Cars, 3rd in Mercedes-Benz
1927, July 17: German GP for Sports Cars, 2nd in Mercedes-Benz 2000 cc
1927, August 6: Freiburg-Kilometer sprint, ????
1927, August 7: Freiburg-Schauinsland Climb, 1st in 2000 cc racing class (Mercedes-Benz)
1927, August 12: Klausen Pass Climb, natl. event, 1st 2000 cc racing class (Mercedes-Benz)
1927, August 13: Klausen Pass Climb, 3rd in racing class of 2000 cc in Mercedes-Benz
1928, July 15: German GP for Sports Cars, 1st with Caracciola in Mercedes-Benz SS
1929, ADAC Long- Distance Drive, ?????
1929, ???? International Alpine Trial or Rally in 10/50 hp Mercedes-Benz Typ Stuttgart 2.6-liter
1930, April 12-13: Mille Miglia, 6th with Rudolf Caracciola in Mercedes-Benz SSK
1930, June 22-23: Le Mans 24 Hours, DNF with Caracciola in Mercedes-Benz SSK (retired after 10 hours: generator)

[Hans Etzrodt]

Christian Lautenschlager, Christian Werner and Rudolf Caracciola are usually accepted as the three greatest Mercedes Drivers.

[Racer.Demon]

Hans is the man!

Our correspondent's father is Werner's nephew and claims to have his complete racing records, obtained through contact with the Mercedes museum. I'll ask for them and see how they compare with Hans' records.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Excellent work - Mattijs.
Would be nice to get the records published in this thread and maybe some pictures too. This is exactly why I wanted the two Werners in separate threads, because there is so much more to be told about Christian Werner.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Christian Lautenschlager, Christian Werner and Rudolf Caracciola are usually accepted as the three greatest Mercedes Drivers.

Greater than Fangio and Lang?

[Hans Etzrodt]

Fangio can be included, that makes it four top Mercedes drivers. Lang was considered less than any of those four. He may have been the fifth.

[fines]

Interesting that the fathers of both Christian Lautenschlager and Christian Werner were Shoemakers. Add to that Michael and Ralf...

[Marcor]

Some data to complete the racing record of Werner

1924, October 10: Italian GP Monza, DNF (withdrawn after Zborowski's fatal crash) in Mercedes M72/94.
1925, February 25: Premio Reale di Roma Monte Mario, DNF in Mercedes 28/95 2-liter.
1925, August 23: Klausen Pass Climb, 4th in Mercedes 8 cylinders 2-liter.
1928, July 15: German GP for Sports Cars, also 3rd with Walb in Mercedes-Benz SS

Here I've a different result:
1926, July 22: San Sebastian Touring GP handicap race, 3rd with Walb in over 5000 cc class and 10th overall (Mercedes 28/95 6 L n°52)

The Mercedes squad were
Werner / Walb Mercedes 28/95 6 L n°52, finished 10th overall
Merz / Gartner Mercedes 28/95 6 L n°53, finished 6th overall
Caracciola / Kühnle Mercedes 28/95 6 L n°54, finished 7th overall

[jarama]

Hans,

in your Incomplete racing record of Christian Werner , what is the meaning for the [1] or [3] as in the events "Nürburgring Inauguration" or "International Alpine Trial"?

Carles.

[Marcor]

I guess the answer. Werner won the race 1 of the inaugural Nurburgring meeting. It could explain the [1]. But [3] ???

Let's Hans reply !!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by jarama
Hans,

in your Incomplete racing record of Christian Werner , what is the meaning for the [1] or [3] as in the events "Nürburgring Inauguration" or "International Alpine Trial"?

Carles.

Sorry for my sloppiness, Carles. My mistake. I had started to write the abstract with the list last week for Mattijs. At that time I had marked all my information with source numbers, what I usually do nowadays with most of my data. It is just left over junk that I had forgotten to clean up when I decided to quickly start a new site for Christian Werner and transfer my data, or part of it, over to TNF. I will remove these numbers right now and they cannot be seen anymore shortly after I post this.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Fangio can be included, that makes it four top Mercedes drivers. Lang was considered less than any of those four. He may have been the fifth.

Thankyou, I'll remember that. How was Moss considered?

[917]

Hans,

the town where Gottlieb Daimler built his first motorcar is written Cannstatt. Since 1905 it is part of Stuttgart, the title "Bad" was awarded in 1933 (I think in Europe only Budapest has more mineral water sources than Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt which was founded in the first century by the Romans and is much older than Stuttgart whose origin goes back into the 13th century IIRC).

With kind regards
Michael

[dmj]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Christian Lautenschlager, Christian Werner and Rudolf Caracciola are usually accepted as the three greatest Mercedes Drivers.

I'd say we think just Mercedes here, not Mercedes-Benz.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Michael - you are right. It is Cannstatt with double ' T '. My mistake

Roger - I wrote: "Christian Lautenschlager, Christian Werner and Rudolf Caracciola are usually accepted as the three greatest Mercedes Drivers." I did not write that these were the three greatest drivers ever to have raced for Mercedes. There is a distinct difference between these statements. So, you probably read something, I never intended to say. If you look at it from the aspect of who was the greatest, you would probably chose Fangio as the greatest driver who ever piloted a Mercedes racing car. Was Lang better than Moss? I don't know and don’t want to know. I never wanted to debate who was the better driver but who brought the most success to Mercedes. In the context of the Christian Werner thread, I included Caracciola, since he and Werner were teammates for several years. I never extended my thoughts into the fifties of Fangio, Moss and others, a totally different era. Moss only raced one year for Mercedes, yet de drove home some great victories.

I should have said, " The three greatest Mercedes drivers up to 1939 were Lautenschlager, C. Werner and Caracciola. These were the drivers who, for whatever reason, contributed most to the success of Mercedes and/or Mercedes-Benz. So, not Rosenberger, Brauchitsch, Fagioli or Lang or whoever else you like to add to the list. Later in the fifties came Fangio, yes. He definitely contributed to the Mercedes success through his skill. Moss, yes, but to a lesser extent. I want you to understand that I do not intend to judge the drivers here but just look at their victories and how the factory could use those on a commercial basis, meaning selling cars.

1906-1914 Christian Lautenschlager
Twenties....Christian Werner
Thirties.......Rudolf Caracciola
Fifties.........Juan Manuel Fangio