70 replies to this topic

[Stefan Ornerdal]

I am researching for a future Formula Junior site, and here is a list of FJ cars I know about:
http://user.tninet.s...91w/FJ_Cars.htm
Anyone who can extend the list and fill in empty spaces?

Thanks
Stefan

[dretceterini]

There is a book on formula junior done in the late 60s by Orsini which lists results of all the races. It is rather difficult to find today, but I have seen a few compies in the last 2 or 3 years for around $60-$70. I think www.editions-palmier.fr had a copy a while ago, but not sure if they still have it.

[dretceterini]

Stefan:

The list seems pretty complete, but many cars were "modified" by privateers. FJ was created in 1958 by Count Johnny Lurani, as a training class for GP. 1100 cc production based motors had to be used. Initially, Stanguellini was dominant. Later, the rear engined British cars dominated.

[Marcor]

Lova was not a Dutch car but a Belgian car built at Leuven (Louvain, Lovanium in Latin so the name). The constructor Jef Dujourie first built a 500 cc racer and took part himself in Belgian hillclimb meetings. He built his first Formula Junior in 1960 and the car was tried by André Pilette in October on race at Monthléry. It was a front-engined car powered by DKW. The car was totally uncompetitive so the second car was laid aroud a rear-mounted DKW engine.

In 1961 the Lova were driven by Willy Vroomen, a Duchman living at Antwerpen, and Jean-Claude Franck, a young 21-year man from Louvain. In the GP des Frontières at Chimay, Vroomen finished 17th and one but last, Franck was a non-starter. In 1962 the DKW was replaced by a Ford Holbay in the Franck's car. Franck finished 9th (once again, one but last) in the GP des Frontières.

In 1963 Jean-Claude Franck found a more competitiva car - a Cooper MK3A - and left the Lova to his fate. He surely was right as he finished 3rd of the GP des Frontières.

Those informations are from Chimay Le Grand Prix des Frontières 1960-1973, by André Biaumet (part one is 1926-1959).

[dretceterini]

A copy of the Orsini formula junior book is for sale on e-bay

[Rainer Nyberg]

http://www.americand.../1958miller.htm

[sat]

Czechoslovakia:
1961 Skoda 1000 Formule Junior /engine: Skoda 1089 ccm / manufacturer: dílny ÚV Svazarmu Praha / rear engine / 1 car
1961 Skoda 1000 Formule Junior /engine: Skoda 1089 ccm / designer: Karel Cejnar / manufacturer: Dukla Nitra / rear engine / 1 car
1962 Wartburg / engine: Wartburg 900 ccm / designer: Alois Gbelec / rear engine / 1 car
1963 Delfín-Tatra / engine: Tatra 1089 ccm/ designer: ing. Gajdos / manufacturer: Tatra development centre / rear engine / 2 cars
1963 Pauer-Ford / engine: Ford 105E / designer: ing. Vaclav Pauer / rear engine / 1 car

USSR:
1963 Estonia 5-Wartburg
1963 Kiev 2-Wartburg

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Thank you guys

A new version of the FJunior cars file here:
http://user.tninet.s...1w/FJ_Cars2.htm

Stefan

[Rainer Nyberg]

A few more additions to Stefan's list....

Alexis MK2 (GB) - 1960
Autosud (I) - Front engine - 6 cars
Bandini BFS Tipo P1 (I) - Rear engine - 1 car
Barden (NZ) - Rear engine - Ford 105E or Ariel Square 4 - 1 car
Baur (I) - 1960 - Fiat
BC(M) - Rear engine - Fiat - 1 car
BF - 1959 - Front engine
BF Faccioli - Rear engine
CMB (GB) - 1961 - Rear engine - Ford 105E - John Tilden design
Cheetah (GB) - Rear engine
Cooper Raeburg (GB) - Front engine - BMC A/Downton
DB - Front engine
Delta - Front engine - Ford 105E - Maurice Phillipe design
Diggory/Heron (GB) - Rear engine - Ford 105E
Dolphin (GB) - 1960 - Ford 105E - 1 car
EBA (S) - 1960 - Rear engine - Ford 105E - Sven Andersson design - 1 car
Elfin Mk1 (GB) - 1960 - BMC A - Peter Emery design - 1 car
Elfin Mk2 (GB) - 1960 - Ford 105E - Peter Emery design - 1 car
ETA (GB) - 1962 - Front engine - BMC A - Ecurie Toad Automobiles
Evad (GB) - 1960 - Front engine - David Taylor design
Fafnir (GB) - 1960 - 1 car
Fairthorpe (GB) - 1960 - Front engine - Ford 105E
FMZ (NZ) - 1960 - Front engine - BMC A - Alan McDonald design
Focus Mk1 - Lennart Sundin design
Focus Mk3 - Rear engine - Lennart Sundin design - 5 cars (2 Peugeot 203 powered, 3 Ford 105E)
Foglietti - Front engine
Foglietti - 1962 - Rear engine - Ford 105E
FRM Tigerjet (D) - Rear engine - DKW - Heinz Maltz design
Garford (GB) - 1960 - Rear engine - Ford 105E/Cosworth - Gordon Gartside design
Gillespie-Fiat (AUS) - 1958 - Rear engine - Fiat 1100 - 1 car
Gruen Junior (S) - 1960 - Rear engine - Peugeot 203 - Stig Gruen design - 1 car
Gwyniad (GB) - Rear engine - Les Redmond design - 2 cars
Har-Riley (GB) - 1960 - Riley 1097cc
Hillwood (GB) - 1961 - Front engine - Fiat 1100/RAM - Norman Hillwood/Maurice Gomm design
Hirondelle (NL) - Front engine
IFA (S) - Rear engine - DKW - Axel Johansson design
Joker (S) - Rear engine - DKW - Per-Owe Pettersson design - 1 car

...some more to come...

[Rainer Nyberg]

More additions and updates...

Jolus - 1961 - Rear engine - Ford 105E - Bob Joass design - 3 cars
Jocko - Front engine - Jocko Maggiacomo design - 1 car
Julien - Front engine (FWD)
Kieft - Ron Timmins design - appr 15 cars
Lambkin (AUS) - Front engine - Fiat 1100
Landar (GB) - 1962 - Rear engine
Letchford (GB) - 1960 - Ford 997 cc
Liebl - Front engine
Lippi - Rear engine
Lotus 22 - 77 cars
Lucangeli - 1961 - Rear engine - Fiat
Lynx MkI - 2 cars
Lynx MkII - 1961 - 3 cars
Lynx MkIII - 1962 - 4 cars
Lynx (NZ) - Rear engine - Ford 105E - Benny Bowman design
Mathé - Rear engine

....more later

[paulhooft]

Hi
I have some pictures of the Dutch Hirondelle
The cars was made by Henk van Zalinge.
There were even was a drawing of the car in the early 60's,
I will scan them tomorrow and post them as soon as possible
Paul

[Rainer Nyberg]

Please post if you can...Hirondelle pics are rare.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Couple of more additions and updates….

Northstar (GB) – Rear engine – Ford 105E/Cosworth – Ron Robertson design
Nota (AUS) – Front engine – BMC A – 1 car
Nota (AUS) – Rear engine – Ford 105E – 1 car
Nova Special – Front engine
Ocelot – Rear engine
Opus (GB) – 1961 – DKW 998 cc
Osca – Front engine – Ernesto & Bindo & Ettore Maserati design
Pirocchi (I) – 1959 – Front engine – Fiat
P.L.W. (I) – 1958 – Front engine – Renato Cazzulani design – 1 car
Raineri (without the extra ‘i’) (I)
RAM – Front engine – Fiat
RBS – Rear engine – Simca
Rennmax – Rear engine – Bob Brittan design
Rispal – Rear engine
Saab – Saab 940 cc – 2 cars
Sauter (CH) – Rear engine – Ets. Sauter design - 1 car
Saxon – Rear engine
Senior (GB) – Ford 105E – David & Douglas Bertram – 1 car
Sirmac – 1 car
Spider – Rear engine – BMC A and later with Ford 105E – 1 car
Swebe – Rear engine – Ford 105E
TCA – Built by TecMec, Italy
Terrier Mk4 Series 1 – 1960 – 3 cars
Terrier Mk4 Series 2 – 1961 – 1 car
Vagabond (GB) – 1961 – 948 cc engine
Valour VP1 – Rear engine – 1 car
Venom (GB) – Rear engine
Volpini – Front engine
Whitten (CDN) – Rear engine
Wohlin (S) – Rear engine – DKW/Mitter – Egon Wohlin design – 1 car
Yimkin – 2 cars

[Don Radbruch]

Stefan and others. I have a bit to offer on Formula Juniors. In the early 1960s I drove one in SCCA races in northern California. I can check further if you wish but I think it was one of a half dozen or so cars built by Joe Huffiker (sp?) Joe went on to build Indy cars. I have a photo of the car and would be glad to send it. It was front engined and powered by a 1000 cc OHV engine of some kind. We later put in a 1100 cc engine and won our class in some races

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
.....Nota (AUS) – Front engine – BMC A – 1 car
Nota (AUS) – Rear engine – Ford 105E – 1 car.....

There were actually two of the Nota front engine chassis design built, but one was fitted with a B-series BMC engine and thus never raced as a Junior. Designer, just for the record, was Guy Buckingham... current owner of the FJr car is... oh, yes... John Medley.

And another Australian one Rainer mentions
.....Rennmax – Rear engine – Bob Brittan design.....

Presumably this was the Kingsley Hibbard car. Again, not the only car built, but others had larger engines and didn't race as Juniors. Important point here... Britto has an 'o' in his name, not an 'a'...

I can't get the full list up again, I was going to check for this one:

Pirahna (AUS) - rear engine - Fiat 1100 engine - 1 car

I think it was designed by the owner, Alec Lazich.

[dretceterini]

I have never heard of some of these before. It would be nice to have that kind of diversity in modern racing...

[Ray Bell]

There was also a car in Western Australia using a sleeved down Peugeot 203/403 engine... built by Wally Higgs. If I recall correctly, there was a front engined and rear engined version, at least the front engined one using a VW front suspension.

Anyone with Around the Houses can find the details...

[paulhooft]

When I go to
http://user.tninet.s...91w/FJ_Cars.htm
I get a 404 error..
Paul

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Oh, sorry Paul and others... this is the correct address:
http://user.tninet.s...1w/FJ_Cars2.htm

Stefan

[paulhooft]

There is a now classic I think, 1961 book by John Blunsden called Formula Junior about the first years 1957 to 1960.
I may have been be reprinted lately??
And there is a recent (already out? ) book by Bernard Cowdrey Formula Junior The complete A-Z for 39.95 pounds that is, at Mill House books.
Paul Hooft

[Rainer Nyberg]

Yes, Paul, I have both the Blunsden reprint and the Cowdrey book.
The Cowdrey book is limited to 500 copies so you might need to hurry to get a copy of it.

...Bernard Cowdrey Formula Junior The complete A-Z...

When I see our list growing here it might not be that 'complete' after all....it also has some some annoying errors, sloppy proof-reading it seems...

The Blunsden book is quite useful but it only covers the first years.

Mill House also has a useful Formula Junior compilation from Unique. (their usual photo-copy style of period magazine articles).

And Ray, I have only included cars that actually ran as Juniors.

[paulhooft]

Ok I have re found this small 10 x 120 cm 1962 pocketbook Called Racing cars of the World by Hippo books that has some page size some photos of Formule juniors and other Gp cars in it...
Do you know that one??
Paul

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by paulhooft
Some wher here I have a small 10 x 10 cm 1962 pocketbook with page size some photos of Formule juniors and other Gp cars in it...
But:
were???
Paul

I've got something similar, picked up for a few pennies several years back - and it's by Jenks too!
"The Racing Car Pocketbook", by DSJ, published by Batsford. Packs an amazing amount of information and opinion into a very small space - a bit like the author ;)


pete

[paulhooft]

the DSJ book is a good one..
I have the whole series of 4 Batsford books
since back in 1963
I advice you keep that one
Paul

[ensign14]

Originally posted by petefenelon



I've got something similar, picked up for a few pennies several years back - and it's by Jenks too!
"The Racing Car Pocketbook", by DSJ, published by Batsford. Packs an amazing amount of information and opinion into a very small space - a bit like the author ;)


pete

Which also includes a photo of the Cegga at Pau - a rare treasure which you can get very cheaply.

[anjakub]

Originally posted by sat
USSR:
1963 Estonia 5-Wartburg

1963 Estonia 5/engine: Wartburg 900 ccm/designer: Roman Bertelov/manufacturer: Tallina Autoremonditehaseks nr 1, Tallin/2 cars

and Polish Formula Junior cars

1961 Rak/engine: Wartburg 900 ccm/designer: Jerzy Jankowski/manufacturer: Osrodek Techniczno-Zaopatrzeniowy PZM, Warszawa/rear engine/1961: 3 cars
Note: PZM = Polski Zwiazek Motorowy (Polish Automobile Federation)


About Formula 3: In 1971 Polish Racing Championship was cancelled. In that year were only several hillclimbs and two (?) test races for Polish F3 drivers.

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Thank you all, for your help
The list is now updated - it is now a very long list, in three parts!
Here's the address:

http://user.tninet.s...1w/FJ_Cars1.htm

Stefan

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Yes, Paul, I have both the Blunsden reprint and the Cowdrey book.
The Cowdrey book is limited to 500 copies so you might need to hurry to get a copy of it.



When I see our list growing here it might not be that 'complete' after all....it also has some some annoying errors, sloppy proof-reading it seems...

The Blunsden book is quite useful but it only covers the first years.

Mill House also has a useful Formula Junior compilation from Unique. (their usual photo-copy style of period magazine articles).

And Ray, I have only included cars that actually ran as Juniors.

There were copies of Cowdrey's F1, F5000 and FJ books in either Foyle's or Motor Books in London last weekend - I can't remember which was where, but I saw all three and they were the only two bookshops I spent much time in!

Unfortunately they're all rather disappointing, IMHO. Some moderately good photos, very little in the way of text, and you don't really get much for your money. The F1 one has a little more about privateers and the twilight careers of the cars than Mike Lawrence's or DCN's 45-65 books; the FJunior one doesn't seem to contain much that's not in Hodges A-Z of Formula Cars apart from a few more photos, and the F5000 one is the only one that doesn't contain much that's not listed elsewhere in print, although I think Allen Brown's site walks all over it!

pete

[john medley]

An amazing thread!( which I've only just found today!!) A remarkable and developing list, Stefan ( congratulations!). But I'm biased, because I've raced a Formula Junior car for the last 30 years and owned 6 of the little beasties in that time - 2 front engined Notas, 1 rear engined Nota , 2 Elfin Catalinas, and 1 Lynx.
To comment on some earlier threads: Guy Buckingham at Nota Engineering built a total of 3 front engined FJ chassis, 2 of these becoming FJs ( 1 to win Australia's first FJ race and to set the original Oran Park lap record), the third unused until later widened into a clubman called the Nota TACE. Another similar but different chassis became Barry Garner's Nota BMC 1500. Nota also built 2 rear engined FJs : the Nota Renault 1960 ( John and Brian Schroder) and the Nota Ford 1962 ( Les Howard, later John McCormack)
Alec Lazich's Piranha was originally said to be built by Clive Adams/ Jack Pryor, but perhaps it had then and now a Bob Britton ( Rennmax ) chassis,
. Initially the car ran a Fiat, later Ford engine.
Some other Australian Formula Junior cars I've been able to identify are: Renault Special ( Bill March, NSW), Dalro Renault ( Les Wiggett), Nota Renault ( John and Brian Schroder), Morris Special ( J Grierson), Cheetah ( Brian Shead ), Gremlin (Ron Halpin), different Gremlin, probably a rebodied Lynx ( Laurie Tindal), front engined Cicada ( builder Doug Trengove, driver Geoff Vercoe), Rennmax Ford ( Mal Cooper), Talisman ( Roy Pounder), Bridge Peugeot ( Albert Bridge), Cooper BMC Special ( John Joyce), Koala ( John Joyce), Cameron FJ ( Don Cameron) Para Renault ( Jim Hammond), Monaco Renault ( Richie Hilyear).... and there are /were others, but they lie in the 'uncertain' department at the moment

[Ray Bell]

Your list, John, doesn't include the better known cars already mentioned?

KB's Lynx, the various Elfin Catalinas or the Kingsley Hibbard Rennmax? Nor the Wally Higgs car I previously mentioned... was that the Sevin? Again, I'm away from my library.

[john medley]

You are right, Ray. Generally my list adds to those already shown on Stefan's remarkable list. I've realized I left off one definite ie Brian McEwan's Macer,originally Renault powered later BMC. And one I didnt know enough about and so left out ( there were others...) was Jim Frank's Aliki DKW, which I think may actually appear on Stefan's list if I'm reading it correctly. A friend who did race a FJ in those days commented recently that Formula Junior never really took off in Australia, and that's why it's stunning to note the total number of FJs that did run in Australia :FJ fields may have been small back then but right now the Australian Formula Junior Association has a list approaching 100 cars. Another noteworthy point is the large number of Australians in FJ particularly in the UK in the 1960s: they can be found on almost every page of Stefan's list.
And, Ray, I think Wally Higgs' Western Australian car was entered simply as a Peugeot Special, was not the Sevin ( was that Vin Smith's ?), and was a unique piece of work quite out of the contempory racing car mainstream -- but effective and successful for all that.

[Ray Bell]

Of course you're right... and I know I should look at Around the Houses before I post these things...

Were not both cars FJrs, or only one? And what other Peugeot engined cars were there... the Monaco, for instance?

[Frank S]

A Formula Junior car for sale:
Miller-Crosley

Four days remain on eBay auction.

I remember a number of Miller sports-racers, all very concise and quick.

--
Frank S

[David Birchall]

Blunsden's book is very good as also is "Formula Junior Guide" by Harry Morrow, published by Sports Car Press of New York in 1961. Morrow was a West Coast F3 (ie Cooper 500) driver who was also an automotive journalist. The book gives an American view of Formula Junior which is important. His emphasis is more on special building but he gives an excellent overview of the contemporary FJ cars from Europe. Road & Track for April 1960 has a large section devoted to FJ cars. I owned and raced FJ cars including a front engined Elva, a Lotus 20 and a front engined Gemini from the late seventies to the late eighties. My only comment: an excess of roadholding over power could make for boring driving, but having a large grid made for exiting driving!
David B

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Frank S
A Formula Junior car for sale:
Miller-Crosley

Four days remain on eBay auction.

I remember a number of Miller sports-racers, all very concise and quick.

--
Frank S

http://www.ten-tenth...ead.php?t=75494

Ebay is a terrible thing - I seem to have bought an obscure Californian FJ when all I wanted was a new toaster.

Anyone heard of a Miller (not THE Miller, but Don Miller of CA) Crosley, 1958. It is a super looking thing, with original, aircraft inspired disc brakes and 850cc ohc engine, but no documents to speak of apart from SVRA use by John Rogers in the 80's.
Period info would be fantastic - I've been told it was made for John Donaldson but that's about it.

Graham Allen

By 275 GTB-4....I will try and get Graham Allen to join this thread....

[graham allen]

Many thanks for the link Frank - sorry it got you into trouble with 10/10!

Hopefully some experts out there might help fil in the gaps with this very pretty car. What I know so far is that it is probably not a 58, but a 59 or 60. Don's list (from Tom Churchill, thanks) suggests only one FJ chassis was made, in 1960 for J Donaldson. It was blue at that time. Duncan Rag. says the US regs were updated to include a Miller Crosley in 59, so maybe it was made in 59 and raced in 60?

It was raced by John Rogers of Dallas with the SVRA some years ago but changed hands after he died without it's supporting documentation which I still hope to retrieve or rebuild - hopefully with a little help from you guys.

All suggestions welcomed!

Graham

[Mike Lawrence]

The real story about the origin of Formula Junior is that it was originally conceived as a 'one-car' formula. Some Italian enthusiasts were worried by the fact that there seemed to be few Italians to replace Ascari. Villoresi, Taruffi, Farina and Castelotti who had either retired or had been killed in the mid-1950s. They commissioned a front-engined design which looked more like a 'mini-Maserati'. than a Stanguellini ever did and they took their proposal to Johnny Lurani since he was influential.

It was a serious proposal and a car was built, I do not know by whom. I discovered the story some years ago when working for Eoin Young (motto: Never Knowingling Oversold, his joke) who had a set of photos of the car. According to Eoin, Lurani liked the thinking behind what was essentially a replacement for the 500cc Formula Three, which was dead in the water in many countries.

We believe the proto-FJ car had a Fiat 1100 engine. a good choice in 1956.

Lurani ran with the idea and expanded it.

It is easy to forget that, originally, Formula Junior was a power/weight category with four classes, which eventually became whittled down to 1100cc because that was the power/weight combination which won races.

I wish Stefan all the best in what, I hope, will be a much-targeted site. I once wrote that there were at leat 159 distinct FJ cars in 1960. A distinguished contributor to TNF picked me up on this, so I went through a few: Elva 100-series, front-engined, raced with DKW, BMC and Ford engines and Elva had the mid-engined 200-series before the end of 1960.

My dear friend, the late David Hodges, brought me in on 'A-Z of Rofrmula Racing Cars' as editor and contributor. With David doing the main work there wasn't much editing to do. My contributions came down to March and Lola, plus the 500cc F3 cars. When I agreed the fee with David's publisher, I reckoned there might be three dozen entries including significant specials like Colin Strang's car. I finished up doing 148 entries and I do not want to be reminded of what I missed.

[Doug Nye]

Johnny Lurani himself described how Italian racing journalist Gianni Marin had played a role in Junior's birth, as a variation of what had been Italian "classe 750cc corsa-sport" to generate a schoolroom "Formula Junior" with a 1000cc capacity limit and 400kg minimum weight limit. Lurani gave credit to the early circus classes of Cisitalia and Monomill racing.

A major feature on the new Formula Junior to be administered largely by the driver schools was published in 'Autosprint' issue November 20, 1957, sparking enthusiastic correspondence in following issues. A spanking new 1100cc 'Formula Junior' Stanguellini was pictured on test at Modena with Fangio at the helm - attended by Comm. Stanguellini himself, Roberto Lippi and Guerrino Bertocchi of Maserati. Incidentally at that time Italy still had a surviving current driver of acknowledged world class - Luigi Musso.

DCN

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by graham allen
Many thanks for the link Frank - sorry it got you into trouble with 10/10!

Hopefully some experts out there might help fil in the gaps with this very pretty car. What I know so far is that it is probably not a 58, but a 59 or 60. Don's list (from Tom Churchill, thanks) suggests only one FJ chassis was made, in 1960 for J Donaldson. It was blue at that time. Duncan Rag. says the US regs were updated to include a Miller Crosley in 59, so maybe it was made in 59 and raced in 60?

It was raced by John Rogers of Dallas with the SVRA some years ago but changed hands after he died without it's supporting documentation which I still hope to retrieve or rebuild - hopefully with a little help from you guys.

All suggestions welcomed!

Graham

errrghhhh its Mick.....Graham.....

no problem....hope you can get some help and find out some info on your neat little car Cheers

[Ray Bell]

I suppose a picture of it is out of the question?

And with a nickname full of numbers and letters, who wouldn't get mixed up about a name?

[Graham Gauld]

Reference Doug's remarks I can confirm that when I visited the Stanguellini factory in September 1957 the only single seater there was one of the 750cc Formula Italia cars looking very much the worse for wear and I was too busy photographing the pretty new sports car I did not notice whether they were building another chassis over in the other corner.
If any of the tfn gang are driving anywhere near Modena Francesco Stanguellini - Vittorios son - has a super b little private museum at the back of his Fiat Dealership with a wide variety of Stanguellini's including an early Junior, the sports cars, the record cars and even the Lotus Eleven Stanguellini that Francesco built to replicate the Lotus-Stanguellini that Alex McMillan used to race in England.
The museum is a must as it is full of fascinating memorabilia

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I suppose a picture of it is out of the question?

And with a nickname full of numbers and letters, who wouldn't get mixed up about a name?

Thats enough out of you Bell ...a pic was posted on 10/10ths (OMG....I am probably going to be struck down for mentioning another website!!).....good bye cruel world

So did you breeze through Canberra, ACT Australia last week?? I am really really looking forward to getting away next week down around Wagga and Young etc...prior to the boring drive to Sydney for duty at the A1GP (Go Team Australia )

[275 GTB-4]

Reading Bill Prices book on Paddy Hopkirk (some bloke who drove Minis amongst other things )

.....in the early days, Paddy drove an Elva FJ and described it as diabolical handling machine and a bitza....he was much happier when he had a go in a Lotus 18.

[David Birchall]

I wasn't aware Hopkirk had driven an Elva junior, or had forgotten, but I cannot let the comments about handling go unquestioned. I had an Elva front engined junior that I restored from several boxes of bits and ran in the early eighties. It had wonderful handling, such that I became bored with the ease of driving it fast and would have liked another 100bhp at least! It was a competetive car with other front engined juniors both in period and in historic races now.
However, it was definately built down to a price and could not be compared to a Gemini, which I later owned or Lotus 20 which I also owned in the late seventies. The only reason I can think of for Hopkirk's remarks are that if it was an early car it would have had front suspension that used the sway (roll) bar as part of the suspension linkage. This caused too much front roll stiffness and wheel lifting. My car had later double a arm suspension and was fantastic. The other possibility is that Hopkirk's car was just badly set up or maintained....

[jph]

Hopkirk's car was one of the later rear-engined FJ Elvas.

[David Birchall]

Originally posted by jph
Hopkirk's car was one of the later rear-engined FJ Elvas.

Then my last sentence may apply. Elvas were usually competetive cars but were outnumbered by Lotus. However, as I said earlier Frank Nichols knew how to cut costs!

[275 GTB-4]

To be fair, Paddy had not had a great deal of experience when he drove the Elva....lots of autotests, hillclimbs and Rally of Irelands etc in Standard 10, TR2, Sprite MKI etc....he was a gifted driver but at that early stage of his career and may not have been all that technically knowledgeable in all things.....

As stated above, who knows how well/badly set up the machine was anyway?

His comments were just honest and anecdotal and not meant (by me) to denigrate the marque

[francoisb123]

And what about "home made" cars, Stephan?:one off, of course! (builder made a formula France after only)
1959 JOURDAN , 900Cm3 renault engine (tuned dauphine)[IMG]http://img107.images...n00014oc.th.jpg[/IMG]

[Terry Walker]

Another one-off, from Western Australia, the ultra-low BMC Junior, designed and built by, and being driven by, Jaime Gard, who later created the Gard F2 cars and the two Gardos cars, an F5000 and a V8 sports.

The photo was taken in 1963 or 1964.

[Pedro 917]

The Rodriguez brothers drove Formula Junior cars on several occasions.
This is a picture from the late fifties, my guess is that it was taken at the Bahamas. Pedro's at the wheel of an Osca and Ricardo's driving a Stanguellini :