Elgin Road Race photos
Posted 22 January 2003 - 17:18
The site has some other racing photos, including a few nice ones of Louis Meyer at the end of the '28 Indy 500, but the Elgin pictures make up the bulk of the racing shots.
Posted 23 January 2003 - 04:30
Wow, the George Eastman material and now this! I am one Happy Camper!
Posted 23 January 2003 - 05:58
Over three years ago, I researched the Elgin subject and have accumulated a 3.5 inch thick stack of copies from contemporary newspapers, programs or interesting correspondence plus pictures of my own production in color slides about program covers plus other items, but nothing earthshaking. In my free time I wrote after work for about 4 weeks or so, covering the startup and first event but then got distracted by discovery of TNF and eventually lost interest in the project.
I presently have good large copies of about 80 Elgin pictures but really need more, especially one covering the later years of this event. Do you have any idea what the prices are to obtain copies from those additional Elgin pictures discussed by both of you?
Posted 23 January 2003 - 08:54
Eight years ago the price for a copy was 76,- $ (for a 1/1 copy + one-time publishing rights + postage to Germany).
Posted 23 January 2003 - 09:44
Current price at the Bibliothèque Nationale/Paris and the Conservatoire des Arts et Métiers/Paris = between 100,- and 120,- Euro per copy (including one-time publishing rights).
Photos for private use only (without publishing rights) from the Mercedes or Peugeot archives = 20,- Euro per copy.
Posted 23 January 2003 - 17:27
Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Do you have any idea what the prices are to obtain copies from those additional Elgin pictures discussed by both of you?
The photos on the Library of Congress website are from the Chicago Daily Times collection, which is held by the Chicago Historical Society. Its price for a B&W print from an existing negative (all of the scanned photos have copy negatives) is $10. In cases where a new negative has to be made, it's $20. Those are the prices for personal use. The publication fees are much higher. For publication by a "for-profit entity", it's $75. For a "non-profit entity", it's only $25. The fee schedule can be found at:
It's probably no use arguing that, "I could never turn a profit on a book about the Elgin road races", even if it is true. In fact, given that those 220 or so pictures of the Elgin races would cost over $16,000US for for-profit publication, it would, I would think, be utterly impossible to turn a profit.
Could you create a non-profit entity for such a purpose - an "Elgin Road Races History Project"?. Possibly work a reasonable honorarium into the budget? Or would the red tape involved be far too great? Perhaps this is where the (now dormant?) idea of a motor racing historical society might come in handy - as a non-profit entity under whose auspices such projects could be published by commercial publishers. One often sees books published jointy by commercial publishing houses and museums, universities, and other non-profit foundations, institutes, etc.
But, as I know absolutely nothing about "non-profit entities", publishing, or much else for that matter, I'd best just shut-up. Still, the issue of reproduction fees is one that seems to plague motorsports historians (what's a racing book without lots of neat pictures?). So, too, is the whole matter of publishing a book which appeals neither to the mass market, or to university presses (the main publishers of unprofitable books). One can't help but wonder how many great books are sitting in drawers because the author either couldn't find a publisher, or couldn't afford the illustrations.
Posted 23 January 2003 - 23:58
Posted 24 January 2003 - 17:30
Originally posted by Don Capps
Wow, the George Eastman material and now this! I am one Happy Camper! [/B]
Glad you like it. The more I look, the more I find - including some nice shots of the Maywood board track, which is identified as "Speedway Park".
Unfortunately, nothing from the 1917 races (I have a particular interest in Pete Henderson, who won a 50 miler that year).
Are you familiar with the Florida Memory Collection?
It has some nice pre-WW1 photos of the Ormond Beach racers (Willie K., Bruce-Brown, ets.), a few shots of the Fulford board track, some '20s sprint cars and, of course, a lot of really nice land speed record stuff (Segrave, Lockhart, Keech, Campbell).
I wonder how many other state historical societies/archives have photo collections online?
Posted 25 January 2003 - 06:41
In addition, I have never seen any of these photos in any publication -- book or magazine. I've got almost a 100 Elgin photos but none of these. And evidently all are identified as well.
In the few weeks I've known of this forum I've discovered the Eastman site, the Kreb photos and now gosh knows how many LOC/Chicago photos. And I haven't even started searching through the Florida link. This forum is better than an evening with Google.
Are all of these sites listed on a website I haven't found yet? Thats a project that someone should undertake.
Posted 25 January 2003 - 09:59
There are a few photos showing Pete Henderson on :
It’s called “the Rickenbacker papers”, the main subject being the racing career of Eddie Rickenbacker (or Rickenbacher before WWI). There is a batch of photos showing the 300 cubic inch Maxwell, and hence Pete Henderson.
When just trying, the website did not load. I don’t know if it is dead currently. In any case the Auburn library has these photos.
= = = = = =
The San Diego Historical Society has no collection concentrated on auto racing, but a lot of beautiful material:
Posted 25 January 2003 - 17:32
Posted 26 January 2003 - 18:15
Yes, the mechanics are an interesting group, especially as so many went on to become successful drivers in the AAA (O'Donnell,Murphy,DePaolo) and elsewhere (IMCA champ Fred Horey).
Originally posted by Don Capps
I have started the laborious process of scanning the "Chicago" material for names of the riding mechanicians to link them with the appropriate driver.
So, now that we have photos and stats (courtesy of Phil Harmes and motorsport.com), all we need is someone to write up history of the Elgin races. Hans...
I learned of them from postings on the American racing history group on Yahoo which, BTW, seems to have solved its spam problem. I haven't been able to find any site listing all of these online photo archives, but I'm still looking. You're right, it certainly would be a useful resource.
Originally posted by Phil Harms
Are all of these sites listed on a website I haven't found yet? That's a project someone should undertake.
Posted 31 March 2004 - 04:43
Posted 22 December 2004 - 23:50
Joane Temme Smith
Posted 23 December 2004 - 00:02
Joane Temme Smith