16 replies to this topic

[Darren Galpin]

In the 1953 Spa 24 Hrs, there was a car entered, #24, called a Siam Ford Special. On page 133 of Time and Two Seats by Wimpffen, there is a picture of it, and on page 134 there is a picture of just after the start of the race, where the car can be seen carrying the same number.

I had a query by e-mail last night quoting from Deschaux's book on Spa-Francorchamps (I do not have a copy of this book, so I cannot confirm any of what follows. It should be noted though that the two pictures used by Wimpffen both come from the Deschaux collection). The Deschaux book says that the car had #24 to start with, but changed to #20 in the race. This would seem to be contradicted by the photo, and the fact that Wimpffen says that #20 was an Aston Martin. He also says that Deschaux has another photo which is stated to be the Siam special, but is a different car.

Can anyone shed any light on this, or explain further/give more details about this Siam Special? There was an Italian car company in the 1920s called SIAM, but this would appear to have nothing to do with this effort.

One other thing - Wimpffen says that the race was on the 26th-27th July, whereas Deschaux says 25th-26th. A quick check using that handy Unix utility cal shows that the 27th was a Monday, so Deschaux's dates look more correct, unless it was a public holiday then. Can anyone confirm either way?

Ta muchly. I'll take up LB's suggestion from the other thread and go and get a pipe and my pair of slippers, so that I can sit and cogitate while I wait for an answer. However, this date does go well beyond when I was a lad.........

[Vitesse2]

Can't help on the Siam, but can confirm Deschaux' dates of 25th-26th July (Motor Sport Sep 1953 p466). The full race report consists of just one paragraph .... :

[Pete Stowe]

Autocar also has the date as 25/26 July, and has a 3 page report - but only mentions that the Ford Siam-Special had retired, after about four hours.

[dretceterini]

As far as I am aware, there is no connection to the Italian company

[Marcor]

Yes there's one picture of the #24 Ford Siam Special in one of the books of Jean-Paul Delsaux, in Francorchamps 1948-1960. He said that the car driven by Ampoulie and Gergaud didn't finish the race. The car was not really beautiful.

About the dates, without a doubt, the race occured from Saturday to Sunday.

[GIGLEUX]

SIAM-FORD From official papers: FORD-SIAM Type SIAM 01 Engine N.: 01 Chassis number: 190-53-75 which means receipt n.190 in 1953 in Paris District. Registration number 15 CG 75 SIAM= SIMille and AMpoulié Engine and chassis were issued from a stock Ford(France) Vedette.Engine V8 reduced from 2160 to 1995 cc to comply with class E limits(1501 to 2000 cc) so 66.04x72.80 (instead of 66.04x78.80).Hemispherical combustion chambers;valves in the head instead of lateral position in stock engine.Compression 7.2 to 1.Four inversed single choke Zenith carbs.93 hp(not bhp) at 4700rpm. Chassis mods:rear leaf springs inversed to lower the chassis.Stronger shock-absorbers.Two 70 L tanks.Robergel wire-wheels.Dunlop 6.00x16 front and 6.50x16 rear tyres.Rear axle crown-wheel with 11 teeth instead of 9.Weight 850 kg.Max speed @ 180 kmh. The car was conceived by people with strong connection with Ford France works at Poissy: Albert Simille was engineer at the drawing and technical department. Joseph Ampoulié was a Ford agent at Neuilly(Paris suburbs) and amateur driver too. At first the car was conceived to break international records at Montlhéry. The two men were joined by Henri Trillaud,Ford's agent too,who raced in 1947 with his 135 S Delahaye under Ecurie France banner and Maurice Varet who also raced during the same period with Delages of Ecurie Gersac and Louis Gerard;Varet too was working at Poissy's. The studies began in 1950 and in July 1952 the car was ready.After two unsuccessful attemps the third was the good one with following results: Class E 72 hours 9383,854 km (130,331 kmh average) 10 000 km in 76 h 32 min 15 sec (130,654 kmh) The best lap was at 169,800 kmh and last lap at 153 kmh. Drivers: Ampoulié Trillaud Varet Bonnerot Gorgaud and Lanique. The special body was designed by M.Gallet and realised in Ampoulié's garage. Ford France put a discret help in the project and general manager François Lehideux spoke of a two car entry at Le Mans in 1953. Alas he was to left the compagny and nothing more came from Ford France.It was said the project costed 5 millions francs of the time (the price of 5 brand new Ford Vedettes).In fact Ampoulié said it was more as he did not count the hours of his employees at the right cost. After that the car was in Ampoulié's garage and was raced at least two times: Spa and In may 1955 at the "24 Heures de Paris" at Montlhéry on the road circuit where it was driven by Ampoulié and Giraud-Cabantous the 1948 French champion.Ampoulié found himself without brakes and finished in a ditch.They had the number 16.The car went back in Ampoulié's garage where the damaged body was put aside for repairs which where never done.After that it was the classical sory: need of place and stored outside;after some years it finished in a scrapyard. The modified Ford Vedette chassis with his special engine still exists. Sorry but no more information.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX
.....Hemispherical combustion chambers;valves in the head instead of lateral position in stock engine.....

Is this the only example of the V8-60 getting an ohv conversion?

.....Rear axle crown-wheel with 11 teeth instead of 9.....

That would be the pinion...

.....Alas he was to left the compagny and nothing more came from Ford France.....

Did this also have anything to do with the Wimille project?

[GIGLEUX]

Ford -France refused twice to continue with the Wimille car.First by a letter of June 24 1949 of Maurice Dolfuss president and general manager of Ford-France and the second time during Paris Motor show in october 1950 by François Lehideux his successor. In the early 50's Ardun conversion were fitted to V8 Ford Vedette engines bored (or stroked?)down to 2 litres and mainly used in the Balsa Sp racing cars of Jean Judet (named F.A. Sp from Ford Ardun) and Balsa himself who fitted such an engine in his car in 1954 in place of the usual BMW.I think the link was Alexander Todd ("Orley") who knowned both Balsa (who modified and maintained the Veritas-in fact I think the first monoplace of the marque in 1948-and Zora Arkus Duntov (Ardun).

[GIGLEUX]

Excuse me Ray but I realise I don't exactely answer your question: there were no links between the SIAM and the Wimille except the use of the Ford V8 engine

[Ray Bell]

So have I got the bull by the horns or the tail?

Did the Ardun conversion come in two sizes or was it only used on V8-60s?

[dbw]

ray; the ardun kits were available for both size flatheads in the states...i have no numbers but my observation is that more were made for full size engines....quite a few ended up in california hot rods and lakes cars of the period...i have seen a few v8-60 units here but none running.a good friend of mine has a 32 ford 3-window coupe built in the 50's with all the right stuff of the period..full ardun engine,lasalle gearbox,halibrand mags,kinmont brakes..the works! all original and runs quite well thank you...

as the limited supply of ardun stuff have become rare and expensive relics in the states ,our old friend don orosco [who toured the vintage racing circuits with the reventlow scarab]has been bitten by the hot rod bug to the point of manufacturing NEW ardun kits [with all parts interchangable with the original]as well as a rather extensive line of eddie meyer flathead speed equipment...all readily available and of course not at all stigmatised with a low purchase price.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX
I think the link was Alexander Todd ("Orley") who knowned both Balsa (who modified and maintained the Veritas-in fact I think the first monoplace of the marque in 1948-and Zora Arkus Duntov (Ardun).

Funny how these things come up just when you want to know about 'em!

Jean-Maurice: do you know anything about an earlier link between Todd and Duntov? Todd entered an "Arkus-MG" in three 1936 Voiturette races, but never showed up for any of them. Was this perhaps just a renamed and/or rebodied K3 or something more?

[GIGLEUX]

I think that in 1946 he still had the car named Todd Sp. But what car: when looking at the K3 register, no trace of Duntov, Orley or Todd, so what kind of MG was it?

[Marc Ceulemans]

Jean-Maurice, do you know if Jacques Gergaud who drove the Siam at Spa in 1953 was the same driver who competed in Le Mans in 1932 ?

[dretceterini]

Originally posted by GIGLEUX
SIAM-FORD From official papers: FORD-SIAM Type SIAM 01 Engine N.: 01 Chassis number: 190-53-75 which means receipt n.190 in 1953 in Paris District. Registration number 15 CG 75 SIAM= SIMille and AMpoulié Engine and chassis were issued from a stock Ford(France) Vedette.Engine V8 reduced from 2160 to 1995 cc to comply with class E limits(1501 to 2000 cc) so 66.04x72.80 (instead of 66.04x78.80).Hemispherical combustion chambers;valves in the head instead of lateral position in stock engine.Compression 7.2 to 1.Four inversed single choke Zenith carbs.93 hp(not bhp) at 4700rpm. Chassis mods:rear leaf springs inversed to lower the chassis.Stronger shock-absorbers.Two 70 L tanks.Robergel wire-wheels.Dunlop 6.00x16 front and 6.50x16 rear tyres.Rear axle crown-wheel with 11 teeth instead of 9.Weight 850 kg.Max speed @ 180 kmh. The car was conceived by people with strong connection with Ford France works at Poissy: Albert Simille was engineer at the drawing and technical department. Joseph Ampoulié was a Ford agent at Neuilly(Paris suburbs) and amateur driver too. At first the car was conceived to break international records at Montlhéry. The two men were joined by Henri Trillaud,Ford's agent too,who raced in 1947 with his 135 S Delahaye under Ecurie France banner and Maurice Varet who also raced during the same period with Delages of Ecurie Gersac and Louis Gerard;Varet too was working at Poissy's. The studies began in 1950 and in July 1952 the car was ready.After two unsuccessful attemps the third was the good one with following results: Class E 72 hours 9383,854 km (130,331 kmh average) 10 000 km in 76 h 32 min 15 sec (130,654 kmh) The best lap was at 169,800 kmh and last lap at 153 kmh. Drivers: Ampoulié Trillaud Varet Bonnerot Gorgaud and Lanique. The special body was designed by M.Gallet and realised in Ampoulié's garage. Ford France put a discret help in the project and general manager François Lehideux spoke of a two car entry at Le Mans in 1953. Alas he was to left the compagny and nothing more came from Ford France.It was said the project costed 5 millions francs of the time (the price of 5 brand new Ford Vedettes).In fact Ampoulié said it was more as he did not count the hours of his employees at the right cost. After that the car was in Ampoulié's garage and was raced at least two times: Spa and In may 1955 at the "24 Heures de Paris" at Montlhéry on the road circuit where it was driven by Ampoulié and Giraud-Cabantous the 1948 French champion.Ampoulié found himself without brakes and finished in a ditch.They had the number 16.The car went back in Ampoulié's garage where the damaged body was put aside for repairs which where never done.After that it was the classical sory: need of place and stored outside;after some years it finished in a scrapyard. The modified Ford Vedette chassis with his special engine still exists. Sorry but no more information.

Is there a photo you can post without violating any copyrights?

[GIGLEUX]

Sorry, Stu, but I think it is wiser not to post here. Send me your e-mail address and I'll send some of them to you.

[VDP]

Stu
I have a picture of the car at the start 1953 at Spa

send me your mail also

Robert

PS the car numbered 24 is an Aston Martin DB 3 with a very very ugly conversion s body any idea who commited such a crime