37 replies to this topic

[Bladrian]

"The Ferrari Shop in Maranello will have an item with a difference on sale from Friday. The team is selling one of its F1 engines, the 047. The unit powered the F300 which carried the team to second place in the 1998 Drivers' and Constructors' Championships. However if you want to know that price you will have to apply at the Ferrari shop. The engine is an 80-degree V10 engine, with its 2997cc capable of generating 700 bhp."


Just one of their old nails, then. Suitable for transposing into an old Austin, I guess .....

[Ray Bell]

Bill Moffat and Catalina Park are both likely candidates...

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Bill Moffat and Catalina Park are both likely candidates...

Sorry Ray, a bit too conventional for my liking.

However this posting does bring back fond memories of the "Twixi". Special Tuning, inspired by the Alfa Romeo Bimotore, produced a prototype Maxi powered by two Jaguar V12'S. The layout was uncannily similar to the Alfa with the V12 engines mounted upfront and amidships. A central diff fed 2 driveshafts in a "Y" formation to the rear wheels.

The car proved less rapid than the Lola Maestro and traction was a problem. Despite swapping from 145 section Dunlop crossplies to 155 Michelin radials the Twixi was eventually scrapped.

[RTH]

What a disappointment , I was expecting some useful Maxi tuning tips for a car vastly ahead of its time -- 1969 five door hatchback, 5 speed gearbox, OHC engine , fluid suspension, very stiff bodyshell, many other manufacturers have taken 30 -- years to catch up !

[Viss1]

Any thoughts on the selling price of the 047? It's a non-championship engine... I say they will try to get US$100K.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by RTH
What a disappointment , I was expecting some useful Maxi tuning tips for a car vastly ahead of its time -- 1969 five door hatchback, 5 speed gearbox, OHC engine , fluid suspension, very stiff bodyshell, many other manufacturers have taken 30 -- years to catch up !

Believe it or not, I can attach some nostalgia to the Maxi. As an engineering apprentice at Cowley, I had to spend a spell in the experimental sheet metal shop at the Pressed Steel Fisher plant, as it was called then. I helped to assemble some of the first Maxi prototype body shells ...no jig...they were done an a surface table taking measurements from various datums and using self tapping screws. The screws were progressivley removed and spot welds added.

Some interesting stuff went through that shop that never saw the light of day...

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by bill moffat


Sorry Ray, a bit too conventional for my liking.

However this posting does bring back fond memories of the "Twixi". Special Tuning, inspired by the Alfa Romeo Bimotore, produced a prototype Maxi powered by two Jaguar V12'S. The layout was uncannily similar to the Alfa with the V12 engines mounted upfront and amidships. A central diff fed 2 driveshafts in a "Y" formation to the rear wheels.

The car proved less rapid than the Lola Maestro and traction was a problem. Despite swapping from 145 section Dunlop crossplies to 155 Michelin radials the Twixi was eventually scrapped.

To quote Ray's dear old dad:


HOLY CRAP!!!!!


Who was dumb .... erm ... brave enough to drive that thing?

[RTH]

Originally posted by David Beard


Believe it or not, I can attach some nostalgia to the Maxi. As an engineering apprentice at Cowley, I had to spend a spell in the experimental sheet metal shop at the Pressed Steel Fisher plant, as it was called then. I helped to assemble some of the first Maxi prototype body shells ...no jig...they were done an a surface table taking measurements from various datums and using self tapping screws. The screws were progressivley removed and spot welds added.

Some interesting stuff went through that shop that never saw the light of day...

At the same time I was selling them and dealing with the customers with oil leaks from the gearchange cables and the poorly applied paint, actually it was a much better car than people would have you believe especially in its '74 1750 Mk 2 Hi-line guise, tell us more about the unseen prototypes .

[David Beard]

Originally posted by RTH


At the same time I was selling them and dealing with the customers with oil leaks from the gearchange cables and the poorly applied paint, actually it was a much better car than people would have you believe especially in its '74 1750 Mk 2 Hi-line guise, tell us more about the unseen prototypes .

There were versions of the MGB and Midget, pre rubber bumper , with longer pointy noses. Never saw a picture anywhere of the completed car. The front wheel drive Midget, I think, too. And the Triumph Lynx (or TR7 Fastback) but not quite sure whether I saw that in the metal, but I definitely as a wooden buck in the pattern shop. Looked pretty.

A bit later I drew up bits for the wonderful Marina safety car , which was developed in conjunction with the Transport & Road Research Lab at Crowthorne and now resides in the museum at Gaydon.
Not exactly a competition vehcle, sorry. Weighed about twice as much as an ordinary Marina, but was very good for driving into walls.

Who was it said...naming a car "Marina" is like calling a boat "Car Park" ?

[TODave2]

Oh gawd, please... British Leyland 1970s car output.

Allegro.
Marina.
Maxi.
Princess.

They then redid the Marina and made the Ital, and the Princess became the Ambassador.

Engines covered in oily muck, my Dad telling me (as a young lad) that you should never clean it all off as it basically sealed in all the electrics and stopping the whole thing rusting. The Allegro with the Quartic streering wheel. That strange control cylinder doobry on the Ital that had all the light, wiper and heating controls on it (I'm going from memory here), the Allegro Vanden Plas with that grill on the front.

'Washing Up Time' strikes, picket lines, lots of men huddled around a brazier sticking another bit of broken up pallet in the top (it put me off joining a union for life).


But then... the Metro came along. I drove one for a while in about 1990. A bloody brilliant car

[peetbee]

Now now, I do hope you're not being nasty about BL are you?

They came up with some great things there, I'll have you know. Where else could Lotus have got the internals of the Eclat's gearbox if the Maxi wasn't about!

Way ahead of their time with regards to design, I mean they still use the Marina's door handles on the LandRover Discovery don't they?

My parents owned several of BL's finest and they weren't that bad, well admittedly my dad did seem to spend a fair amount of time in the garage, but that got me interested in cars!

[TODave2]

My judgement is undoubtedly clouded by what seemed like at the time nothing but strikes. As someone born in 1970 I grew up with this overiding picture of 'BL = strikes'.

I mean, the washing up time strike - the workers knock off at 4:55pm so that they have 5 minutes to wash their hands, get changed and by ready to leave at 5pm. Oh no, say the management, you work until 5pm and then wash up and get changed.

Right, that's it... everybody out.

Jeez, talk about poor worker/management relations

[dolomite]

Leyland cars of the 70s

[peetbee]

I want that video! Shame it doesn't have the TR7 and Dolomite/Toledo on it though and where's the SD1? I think there's enough for a second volume!

TODave2, I agree about the strikes and the build quality of the cars they managed to cobble together between those strikes was definately low. Still they didn't rust as fast as some Italian cars of the same era.

[David Beard]

I reckon it's a pretty safe bet that none of you remember this....

I actually drove the thing!

[dolomite]

Plenty more weird and wonderful (sic) stuff on this website.....

[TODave2]

Originally posted by David Beard
I reckon it's a pretty safe bet that none of you remember this....

I actually drove the thing!

What in God's name... are those pop up headlights?!?!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by TODave2



What in God's name... are those pop up headlights?!?!

Yes , they are, with TR7 electric gubbins to raise them.

The car had fixed seats, and adjustable pedals so that a beam could go through the seat backs linking the B posts to help take side impacts. I had the job of designing a remote gearshift so that tiny folk like my wife (who happened to be the BL test dummy for 5%ile reach tests at the time!) could reach the lever in the far back seating position. I also designed a release mechanism for the adjustable steering column and the cheese grater steel work which was hidden below the huge padded fascia. (My name is on the BL patent that was taken out for the latter)

BL had found the the best car in the range for driving into brick walls was the MGB...hence this Marina had an MGB style tunnel and bulkhead arrangement. As I said, I got to drive thing..on an airfield. Just imagine...no extra power over the standard car, a humungous increase in weight, and no attention at all payed to the suspension. It was 'orrible.

However, working within the small team that designed and built this car within a short timescale and with every engineering short cut possible was a rare pleasure within the confines of BL at that time. When the job was finished I wanted more of that sort of working environment, but it wasn't to be had at Cowley. I lived in Bicester so applied for a job at March, but I suspect once the letters BL were spotted in my CV it went straight into the bin. :

[RTH]

Originally posted by dolomite
Plenty more weird and wonderful (sic) stuff on this website.....

If I not very much mistaken there is am Austin 3 Litre in there, presumably an attempt to Vanden Plas the car and make a poor mans Bentley

Had it not been for the unreliability, and insufficient power the 3 Litre would not have been a bad car, Hydrolastic and self - levelling suspension -when it was not leaking, it was a spacious and luxury car - all the BL cars of that era were under developed they were innovative but put on sale before they were tested, with disasterous results , as a result literally millions of customers were lost for ever, really all the problems stemed from week and incompetant management

[TODave2]

I have to admit, the website dolomite gave is a fascinating read - I wasn't aware there were quite so many innovative things on BL cars.

Shame there isn't a section on the racing successes though.

The overriding message that comes through reading about the cars (and I spent about an hour earlier reading various bits), is that each one was basically a good idea but was compromised but one or two balls ups during design and production.

I still think the 200 Coupe is a superb looking car though

[Doug Nye]

A friend of mine went off to Milan once to see a chap who reputedly had a 3-litre Formula 1 Alfa Romeo V12 engine for sale. We think the bloke had formerly worked for Autodelta and the engine had - ahem - become his inheritance once he left. Anyway, he truly loved that engine. My pal was shown into his workshop which was little more than a prefabricated concrete shed in a field near Linate Airport. The meccanico proudly showed him the engine, which was G-cramped onto a wooden work bench. He then began enthusiastically rummaging around, and to my pal's horrow produced the following:

A battery.

A 5-litre can of petrol.

A meat hook.

A length of plastic hose.

A set of jump leads.

He slung the meat hook over a steel joist in his workshop ceiling. He hung the fuel can from it. He connected the can by rubber hose to a fuel pump which was on a bent aluminium bracket attached to the engine. He then used the jump leads to connect battery and engine wiring loom, and sparked up the starter motor while jiggling the injection controls with his left middle hand.

With stabs of violet and blue flame from its stub exhausts the V12 exploded into ear-splitting life. Meccanico revved it violently. Engine and wooden bench to which it was G-cramped began to twitch and quiver and leap about the workshop. Said workshop rapidly filled with choking fumes and oil smoke (it was not a very well Alfa V12 engine). Ultimately the madly adrenalised meccanico revved it so high the engine and its attached bench began to leap around the fog-filled workshop, and chased them both out into the open.

My buddy did not buy it.

Interesting experience, however...

DCN

[dolomite]

Originally posted by RTH


If I not very much mistaken there is am Austin 3 Litre in there, presumably an attempt to Vanden Plas the car and make a poor mans Bentley

Yes, would you believe, this was a proposal for an Austin 3 litre based device known as the Bentley Bengal. Go to the aforementioned site and look under 'Rolls-Royce prototypes'....

[Ray Bell]

Might it have gained the Princess R 4-litre Rolls engine?

Would have saved it some weight and made it reliable at least...

[peetbee]

Originally posted by DCN:

began to leap around the fog-filled workshop, and chased them both out into the open.

Good story Doug, the only trouble is, I don't understand what's wrong with it. Substitute a crossflow for the Alfa engine and that could have described me in the garage earlier today!!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
A friend of mine went off to Milan once to see a chap who reputedly had a 3-litre Formula 1 Alfa Romeo V12 engine for sale. We think the bloke had formerly worked for Autodelta and the engine had - ahem - become his inheritance once he left. Anyway, he truly loved that engine. My pal was shown into his workshop which was little more than a prefabricated concrete shed in a field near Linate Airport. The meccanico proudly showed him the engine, which was G-cramped onto a wooden work bench.......................

Interesting experience, however...

DCN

I can match all of Doug's stories...except.....

Doug has an Alfa v12 clamped to a bench.....I have a Suffolk Pony lawn mower engine.
Doug drives the V16 BRM and the Vanwall.... I drive the Marina safety car.

:

[Ray Bell]

But have you been around Amaroo Park clinging to the roll cage of a Porsche 935 driven by Ian Geoghegan?

Have you done a few laps alongside David McKay in a 250LM around the Warwick Farm short circuit?

Raced Phil Ward's sports sedan around Oran Park in the Channel 10 helicopter?

Been tossed out of the Hunidaires Restaurant on Mulsanne Straight when you really wanted some breakfast?

Ahh... the memories...

Following Frank Matich as his brother drove him in an Austin A40 tossing penny bungers at us through the Dundas Valley...

Waking up in the back of a Capri V6 that Ford loaned one of the Tasman teams in the F5000 era (and which was the only bed in town that night!) to find it was being flung in circles by a certain irresponsible mechanic in the (wet) main street of Surfers Paradise...

Or looked back at the wake of the Princess of Tasmania in company with honeymooners Bruce and Nola Richardson as the dull morning sky over the Bass Strait heralded the nearness of Longford?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
But have you been around Amaroo Park clinging to the roll cage of a Porsche 935 driven by Ian Geoghegan?

Have you done a few laps alongside David McKay in a 250LM around the Warwick Farm short circuit?

Raced Phil Ward's sports sedan around Oran Park in the Channel 10 helicopter?

Been tossed out of the Hunidaires Restaurant on Mulsanne Straight when you really wanted some breakfast?

Ahh... the memories...

Following Frank Matich as his brother drove him in an Austin A40 tossing penny bungers at us through the Dundas Valley...

Waking up in the back of a Capri V6 that Ford loaned one of the Tasman teams in the F5000 era (and which was the only bed in town that night!) to find it was being flung in circles by a certain irresponsible mechanic in the (wet) main street of Surfers Paradise...

Or looked back at the wake of the Princess of Tasmania in company with honeymooners Bruce and Nola Richardson as the dull morning sky over the Bass Strait heralded the nearness of Longford?

No.
Is it still OK if I post on TNF?

[Ray Bell]

Why ask me?

I'm just the kid sitting in the corner who got lucky some days...

To this day I wonder how I ever finished up at Bruce McLaren's champagne-fest after Longford in 1965, or got to see Graham Hill at his best sitting at the table where they were celebrating his Australian Grand Prix victory the following year.

As he toasted the 'wives and girlfriends of the drivers and mechanics, and that grand old Austalian pastime...' ... now how did that go again?

[Bruce Moxon]

Mmph. Call it a "Safety Car." Pop-up headlights from a TR7. Anyone see the contradiction?

The Lucas Three-Position Switch (GB Patent Pending); off, flicker, dim.



Bruce Moxon

[peetbee]

The Lucas Three-Position Switch (GB Patent Pending); off, flicker, dim.

Aah, Lucas, the Prince of Darkness!

[ianm1808]

They came up with some great things there, I'll have you know. Where else could Lotus have got the internals of the Eclat's gearbox if the Maxi wasn't about!

And how would you have got into your Esprit if it wasn't for the Marina?

And thank god they used Rover SD1 rear lights on the Excel. Very convienent going to the scrap yard instead of paying Lotus prices!

[ianm1808]

In fact if it weren't for Austin, we wouldn't even have Lotus!

[peetbee]

In fact if it weren't for Austin, we wouldn't even have Lotus!

A very good point!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by ianm1808
In fact if it weren't for Austin, we wouldn't even have Lotus!

Wasn't the first BMW an Austin 7, too?

[ianm1808]

I know BMW built a british car under licence when they were starting out, but for the life of me I can't remember. It may have been Austin? Sorry, redundancies have just been announced at my company and so I'm whiling away the dread reading through the many wonderful posts.

[Viss1]

So did anyone hear of the selling price for the 047 (assuming it sold)?

[jondoe955]

Somewhere, I probably still have the car mag from the early 60's that had a Mini with a large bore Caddilac v8 stuffed in it. They called it the Minilac. Idle minds at work!

[Garagiste]

Great reading in here thanks.
Regarding the Discovery, I'm not sure if they are still using Marina doorhandles, but I do know that the only reason for the "bevelled" treatment around the rear of the car was to use up a load of rear light clusters. From the Maesto Van no less!