211 replies to this topic

[Felix Muelas]

I have just read in this month's MotorSport an article by Adam Cooper about Chris Irwin.
It has had the ability --because I would call it like that-- of making me realize that there were a couple of things I didn't know (did I ever?) about that driver.

Starting from the very end of the article, and quoting his own son (Alexander) words "Where the hell have you been for the last 30 years?"

Do we know?

Felix

[Richard Jenkins]

Well, if his ex-wife isn't sure whether he's even alive, what hope have we who keep tracks on the drivers of olde have?

TTBOMK, Irwin is still alive & living in (southern) England. I haven't found any proof myself of that, but there are some "In the know" who say he's around. One thing is clear, though, he hasn't worked, in any real capacity recently (and I mean a long time span here) since the accident that ended his career and in effect, his normal life, as those head injuries have proved too difficult to overcome. A sad story, all in all.

Besides, he's not the only one. I may never find out if John Barber has died, let alone get a date, as to all extents & purposes he has "vanished" off the earth - he lives in "the Med" - which is a mighty big place! & no family speak to him

sigh... But then I guess I like them difficult

[ensign14]

How about Rikki von Opel then? Is he still in Tibet or somewhere?

Chris Irwin's story...a complete tragedy. You know when you read record books or something 'growing up' and they are just names? Like Oswald Karch and Ernesto Prinoth are still? I always wondered what happened to someone who was in or around the top 8 so often.

[theunions]

Originally posted by ensign14
How about Rikki von Opel then? Is he still in Tibet or somewhere?

I thought I read somewhere recently he's been living/working in New York City...which doesn't explain why nobody seems to be able to fill in the blanks on what specifically he's been up to since leaving F1, despite Mo Nunn's continued prominence ever since.

[Udo K.]

I'm also curious to hear more about Chris Irwin's fate after his accident at the Nürburgring, because I met him there a few times and remember him very well.

Here is a photo, which I took an hour or so before his accident in the Nürburgring paddock:

http://www.motorspor...000km_1968.html

[Chris Skepis]

What exactely happened to Irwin due to his accident ?
Louis Stanley wrote in his Behind The Scenes book that he divorced his wife because of the consequences of the accident, Richie Jenkins just wrote that his normal life ended after the accident. What really happened to him?

[schuy]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Well, if his ex-wife isn't sure whether he's even alive, what hope have we

I actually know his wife/ex-wife(not sure if they've ever divorced).

She tells the most incredible stories to a young chap like me who knows only modern Formula 1.

[Richard Jenkins]

Prinoth's dead now, Karch is still alive - Rikky von Opel is living in New York & works as a financial director for his family Opel firm.


Chris irwin suffered severe head injuries & lost part of his nerves in the brain. He hasn't been able to work & as I understand it suffers flashbacks to the accident. His speech has been affected, his eyesight isn't 100%, his memory suffers blackouts - it seems that he is very embarrassed about his current state which is partly why he's 'disappeared'.

Effectively he's given his life for his sport but as he didn't perish at the time, he may be forgotten in years to come, which it makes a more tragic tale than some other unfortunates...

[Barry Boor]

he may be forgotten in years to come,

Not while those of us who watched him race are still around!!!

[Bruce Moxon]

Udo

Fantastic pictures. Thanks for the link. I'll be back to look again. Have you any idea of how jealous I am?

Bruce Moxon

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture of what remained of Irwin's Ford P68:

[schuy]

Thanks for the photo.
Is this at the Nordschleife?

[Pedro 917]

I've read in an article that it was at Flugplatz........

[schuy]

Flugplatz is a section of the Nordschleife.
Thank-you.

[Udo K.]

Thanks Bruce.


Yes, the accident occured at the Flugplatz section of the Nordschleife in practice for the 1968 1000 KM race. According to Autosport July 29th 1968 the remains of a hare were found in the front part of the Ford. It was suspected that the collision with the animal (which might have been taken place in the Hatzenbach section a few km before) caused damage to the aerodynamics of the car, which could have been the reason for it to get airborne at the "jump" at the Flugplatz section.
BTW: the German name "Flugplatz" = airport was giver to this particular section of the Ring many years before cars lifting off the ground there (remember Manfred Winkelhocks spectacular F2 flight).
It was simply because there was a "Flugplatz" for light aircraft near the track there. Actually I do not know when this "Flugplatz" was stopped to be in use. I never saw any remains of it.

[Rob29]

Strange what you learn here. I have always seen 'Flugplatz' translated as 'Flying place' But it seems to apply in german to airport,aerodrome,airfield,airbase,as well as somewhere where cars take to the air!

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Rob29
Strange what you learn here. I have always seen 'Flugplatz' translated as 'Flying place' But it seems to apply in german to airport,aerodrome,airfield,airbase,as well as somewhere where cars take to the air!

Hmm... what's a "Flying place " ???

[Rob29]

?? All I was saying was that one word in German seems to cover several in english!
Airport is where you board an airliner.
Aerodrome previously used ,from the french who started aviation.
Airfield for private flying as usually a grass field.
Air base for Military. Air Station for US Navy.
While the places where rally cars leap into the air are called 'yumps' I think after swedish pronounciation of jump?

[Ray Bell]

I wonder how true it is that there used to be an airstrip at that point?

Or is this perhaps another bit of legend?

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I wonder how true it is that there used to be an airstrip at that point?

Or is this perhaps another bit of legend?

Ray, it is true!
But it was not an air-strip, it was a point where light aircrafts without engines (what's the correct English word for them?) did take off.

[fines]

Flugplatz is an air field, air base or a small aerodrome. An airport is called Flughafen in German. And there's no connection to jumping race cars other than the (accidental) Nürburgring one!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Udo K.
Ray, it is true!
But it was not an air-strip, it was a point where light aircrafts without engines (what's the correct English word for them?) did take off.

Thank you, Udo...

And the word you're looking for is 'glider'... which raises the point: How did they launch them there? Were they towed into the air by powered aircraft, sent scurrying down the runway at the end of a rope on a drum spun around by some old Maybach engine or towed behind a rapid car?

[Pedro 917]

it was a point where light aircrafts without engines did take off.

Here's a heavy aircraft with engine.......

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture of Chris Irwin preparing himself for what was to become his final ride in a racing car. He's talking to Pedro Rodriguez who was his co-driver:

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Pedro 917

Here's a heavy aircraft with engine.......

Seen that before somewhere... but from a different angle...

[Eric McLoughlin]

State sponsored gliding centres were hugely popular in Germany during the 1920s and 30s. Because of the restrictions placed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles, the building of powered aircraft was severely limited. There were no such restrictions on unpowered aircraft. As a result Germany became the world leader in glider design and still builds some of best performing gliders today.

I would hazard a guess that the launching of gliders at the Nurburgring might have been by rubber bungees or, if the wind was strong enough, simply pointing the glider into the wind and allowing it to lift of its own accord. I doubt if using powered tow aircraft would have been feasible. Does anyone know the dimensions of the field these gliders were using and whether the field still exists?

[Bruce Moxon]

Geez, spot the nerd! I don't see a single game shortcut there Ray. On my desktop are solitaire, Hearts, Cruel, Freecell, GPL, Rally Trophy, International Rally Championship and Nascar 2002.

Nice wallpaper, though. My last one was a two year old "driving" a Simca Aronde (me!)

Bruce Moxon

[2F-001]

I guess the software writers couldn't agree on how to spell 'registration'... :0)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by 2F-001
I guess the software writers couldn't agree on how to spell 'registration'... :0)

The exact reason I preserved that screen that day... it's posted on the 'show us your desktop' thread in the Paddock Club.

Bruce, I can't afford to have solitaire on my computer at all. And the only other game that I'd be interested in would be GPL... and to have that I'd want to have the best gear and about a thousand spare hours a week. So... no games!

[Doug Nye]

What happened to Chris Irwin was considered a major tragedy at the time, to the extent, in fact, of it vanishing behind the virtual 'wall of silence' so beloved of tabloid journalists.

The fact that he had been so badly damaged, yet wasn't dead, was almost more difficult for the racers to handle than if he'd been killed on the spot. That was very much a common attitude of the time to such injuries.

I remember the hare story - Ford Motor Company corporate bullshit I suspect... Len Bailey-designed cars were almost always beautifully curvaceous but in the case of the F3L or P68 he had -by general consent - adopted too short a wheelbase and the car was notoriously twitchy over bumps, ripples and yumps. I have always doubted that Chris's was an 'aerodynamic' accident. Our feedback as far as I can recall was that it was far more likely simply to have been caused by yumping off-line, landing askew, and then losing control before hitting the bank and somersaulting. Chris was going like gang-busters in the new car after co-driver Pedro Rodriguez had spent the morning sorting it out, and he clocked 8mins 40.4secs on only his second lap before crashing on the third. In comparison Dickie Attwood in the F3L prototype car was 2.1secs slower, and Jo Siffert's fastest race lap that weeknd in a Porsche 908 - in better conditions with more rubber down - was an 8:33.0. Chris was actually pulled from the car by Rico Steinemann - sometime Porsche driver and team director-cum-editor of Powerslide magazine in Switzerland - and Jean Guichet.

DCN

[Pedro 917]

.......after co-driver Pedro Rodriguez had spent the morning sorting it out

Thank you Doug, you've just solved one of my mysteries. Until today, I didn't know whether Pedro had driven the Ford P68 or not, thanks! I would love to have a picture of Pedro in that car.......

[Felix Muelas]

MotorSport
June 2003
LETTERS FROM READERS

Sir,

In the light of recent correspondence following the article in March’s edition, your readers will be pleased to know that Chris Irwin is alive and well.

It was somehow eerie, in the light of your feature on him, to bump into Chris recently and renew his acquaintance some 38 years after we used to race against each other in Formula Three.

His wish is to remain anonymous – for the time being.

I am, yours, etc

Warwick Banks, Bourne, Lincs.

[neville mackay]

I know it is all too easy to make pious sounding moral judgements long after the passing of events, but the way in which poor Chris Irwin was airbrushed out of motor racing history after his accident and ihis plight gnored by his so called friends was little short of disgraceful. I rejoice that he is alive and well and hope that one day he feels able to tell his story. It makes me wonder how many other tawdry skeletons are lurking in the cupboards of this supposedly great sport.

[Richard Jenkins]

Yes, Felix, I saw that too - I am still surprised someone of the calibre of Cooper couldn't find out whether Irwin was at least alive or not - the last paragraph almost spoilt all the hard work & talent of the piece.
Irwin doesn't live near Banks, mind, but thankfully for Irwin, that may throw a few herrings for some researchers in a search for him.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Yes, Felix, I saw that too - I am still surprised someone of the calibre of Cooper couldn't find out whether Irwin was at least alive or not - the last paragraph almost spoilt all the hard work & talent of the piece.
Irwin doesn't live near Banks, mind, but thankfully for Irwin, that may throw a few herrings for some researchers in a search for him.

I agree Richie - If Chris doesn't want to come back into circulation, I don't see why anyone should make it easy to find him. Shouldn't the poor guy's privacy be respected?

[bcobbus]

Hi too all, and what a great site this is,

Well, one driver that has captured my interests for a bit is Chris Irwin. I have been able to find the basic facts of his brief career online, and in fact Nigel Roebuck even answered, "briefly" my question regarding Irwin on his Ask Nigel column at Autosport.com. However I have never been able to find any info on the driver and just who he was and how talented he was before his career was cut short by his shunt practicing for the Nurburgring 1000K in 1968.

I would greatly appreciate it if some of the members here could help me out in this matter, as I'm always interested in the stories of drivers that history has seemed to forget for whatever reason. From what I have fouds so far Irwin seemed to just drop off the radar after his crash, I do hope he was not serious handicaped from the accident at the Flugflatz?

Well, any info would be nice, and I thank you all for your time in reading what I have to say and hopefully a good discussion will follow.

Thanks again,

BCOBBUS

[Rainer Nyberg]

We discussed Chris Irwin last year in this thread.

You can follow the discussion there and add to the old thread.

[bcobbus]

That is a sad story indeed. Would it be possible if somebody could perhaps transcribe the Adam Cooper article, or is there a link that I could find it at? It is so sad to hear what has become of him, hopefully someday he was make a appearance here or there, and get the credit as a great driver that he deserves...

[angst]

Absolutely tragic. Firstly that such a talent, and such a young life, should be struck down so terribly. Secondly that he was discarded so shamefully.

It is probably easier for the drivers to come to terms with a fatality than to have to face such terrible consequences of an accident as befell poor Chris.

My only hope is that he can put his life together and that he has some happiness in that life, and I hope nobody goes after him to drag up a past that has so badly hurt him.

[Wolfess]

(Hello Everyone, I'm a new member.)

Chris Irwins story has touched a cord in me for some reason . My father passed away recently, and his speech... and other parts of the nervous system were affected (cancer in the brain). Maybe that's why. Anyway - I sincerely hope he's taken care of by loved ones and is no recluse. I feel like Neville MacKay on this one. He should only be 61 years old today. Much too young to spend in solitude. But like you said we must respect his wishes and only hope someday to hear positive news about him. :

Udo K. What terrific beautiful authentic pictures! Sigh....

[Muzza]

Reading this thread on Chris Irwin made me think of Soames Langton... Does anybody know how is he doing? Unfortunately the last news I had (about one year ago) said that he was still in coma (or "deep semi-coma").

I was alsways suprised that a seemingly inocous crash could have cause Soames such devastating injuries... According to a friend of mine that was in Nogaro who talked to a marshal, Soames' head hit the roll cage, and nobody could figure out how could that have happened.

Anyway, if someone in this forum can send my best wishes to him and to his family I would be forever grateful.

Thanks,


Muzza

[BRM MICK]

Hi
Just found this site http://www.nurburgring.de/?lang=eng it has some photos of the Ford F3L crash.
Judging from the condition of vehicle it was a miracle that Chris Irwin survived.

For anyone interested Minichamps have annouced 1/43rd versions of this car and Dickie Attwood's no 7 F3L from the race.

regards

Mick

[LOTI]

Goodness! this made me jump....
Here I was, lurking [as you do] looking to see what the world was talking about.....
It's very hard to explain to someone who wasn't there. Of course I would have given anything for the safety they have now. Of course the needless and pointless loss of life was unbelievably awful but by the same token , there are millions of people who die or are injured in accidents having had none of the excitement , fun, travel, whatever we had. Be sorry for what happened but please don't pity.
Luke [Charles Lucas, my brother] was at Huntingdon a couple of years back and visiting Titan cars [latterly Charles Lucas Engineering] when someone from Strathcarron [sp?] next door came in and said he knew where Chris was, but hey, if he doesn't want to see us why should we go searching for him?
In 1970 he decided to go and live on a boat in the Mediterranean and he married again. Some time later he was seen with someone who was not wife number 2. Gossip tells of maybe a number 4 and even a 5, I don't know and honestly I don't really care!
You can understand why the ex-friends couldn't cope, it's hard looking at what might happen to you, better a dead hero? Eba Grant, wife of Gregor of Autosport and Sylvia Davis, both members of the then Doghouse Owners Club could not have been kinder and more supportive but after our one outing to Brands, as documented in Adam's book, we never went to another race. I found a small niche fundraising for the Doghouse and although both my children watch racing neither felt the need [apart from a little karting] and thats about the end of the news.
I wonder what would have been if that car had been sorted by Brands Hatch, for Jim Clark to drive. he would not have gone to Hockenheim but then Chris would have driven the second Honda at the French GP and Jo Schlesser would still be alive...... gets a bit complicated , doesn't it!
Forza.
Loti

[Tim Murray]

Sincere thanks, Loti, for sharing your thoughts with us.

[MCS]

Loti,

Perhaps you can help with a question I've posed a couple of times in the
Do you think with some development the Honda 302 could have been competitive? thread, as follows;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MCS
Fascinating stuff.

I believe, rightly or wrongly, that the car was driven not only by Surtees - at Silverstone, I believe (prior to the French GP) - but also by David Hobbs, Innes Ireland (?!) and Chris Irwin...

Can anybody shed any light on this ?

MCS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apologies for bringing this to the fore once again, but having seen the 302 picture posted by Macca in the Another what am I? thread (presumably taken at Silverstone - witness the grandstands in the background), I would still be interested to know if anybody else did test the car other than Surtees before it went to Rouen...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks
Mark

[LOTI]

Oh dear!, This is where the last remaining brain cells fail to function. I am fairly certain that Chris did not drive the Honda in 1968. he certainly had a drive in the '67 car [in 67] and I know that John was not keen on the car making it's debut at the French GP which was several weeks after Chris's accident. If it had been available in early May to test that doesn't make sense, does it?
Davis Hobbs I understand but Innes?

Loti

[MCS]

Originally posted by LOTI
Oh dear!, This is where the last remaining brain cells fail to function. I am fairly certain that Chris did not drive the Honda in 1968. he certainly had a drive in the '67 car [in 67] and I know that John was not keen on the car making it's debut at the French GP which was several weeks after Chris's accident. If it had been available in early May to test that doesn't make sense, does it?
Davis Hobbs I understand but Innes?

Loti

Thanks for this, Loti - much appreciated.

My understanding was that two drivers (other than Surtees) had driven the car, one almost certainly was David Hobbs. But I was never sure how the Innes Ireland connection came in. Wasn't he a journalist at that time?

It just seemed reasonable that the other driver could have been Chris...

Thanks again.

Mark

[condor]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
We discussed Chris Irwin last year in this thread.

You can follow the discussion there and add to the old thread.

I've clicked on your link ..and all it seems to do is to take us back to the start of this thread

I know nothing about Chris...except what's been written here...I will endeavour to find out more.

[jcbc3]

Originally posted by BRM MICK
Hi
Just found this site http://www.nurburgring.de/?lang=eng it has some photos of the Ford F3L crash.
Judging from the condition of vehicle it was a miracle that Chris Irwin survived.

For anyone interested Minichamps have annouced 1/43rd versions of this car and Dickie Attwood's no 7 F3L from the race.

regards

Mick

From under one of the pictures:

"Chris Irwin. Nach längerem Krankenhausaufenthalt war er wieder völlig OK. "


Someone should make them update their info.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by condor


I've clicked on your link ..and all it seems to do is to take us back to the start of this thread

I think the 2 threads have been merged since Raniers post,.
Chris was one of my favourite F3 drivers around,'66. I remember feeling frustrated at the lack of news after his accident-more revealed here than in previous 30 years.