75 replies to this topic

[ColdHeart]

The Spa of America is gone from this year's schedule:

http://www.cart.com/...cle.asp?ID=5580

[Ross Stonefeld]

I hope they move some of the single seater support races to the ALMS weekend

[Eric McLoughlin]

Looking ominous - unless thjey're coming to the real Spa instead.

[Viss1]

First Washington DC cancels their ALMS race, now this

[Rob G]

****!!!

For some reason ColdHeart's link tried to bring up an e-mail, so here it is: http://www.cart.com/...cle.asp?ID=5580

Regrettably, the decision to remove the Grand Prix of Road America, Round 12 of the 2003 Champ Car World Series scheduled for August 1-3, was brought about by the continued refusal of the track to comply with its sanctioning agreement.

[Manson]

If the RA organizers are not paying the sanctioning fees on time then:

a) they don't have the money
b) they are trying to take advantage of the recent problems in CART
c) they don't want the race

Lots of time before August 1st. Don't be surprised if CART called their bluff and the race is reinstated later. (hope so anyway)

[Gambino]

Champ Car today announced that it is regretfully removing the Grand Prix of Road America from its 2003 Bridgestone Presents The Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford schedule.

A bit off topic, but I find this funny.

[ColdHeart]

Originally posted by Rob G
****!!!

For some reason ColdHeart's link tried to bring up an e-mail, so here it is: http://www.cart.com/...cle.asp?ID=5580

You're right, I have no idea why.

BTW, on a related note, the recently cancelled ALMS Mexico City race was to be promoted by Gerry Forsythe. I have no idea what that means, if anything, regarding the CART race in Mexico City.

[ColdHeart]

Originally posted by Manson
If the RA organizers are not paying the sanctioning fees on time then:

a) they don't have the money
b) they are trying to take advantage of the recent problems in CART
c) they don't want the race

Lots of time before August 1st. Don't be surprised if CART called their bluff and the race is reinstated later. (hope so anyway)

Or:

d) they don't agree that they owe CART any money
e) they don't want to hold a race in '03 until they determine how much money, if any, they owe for '02

[Manson]

I may be wrong and I don't have time to confirm (hey, I'm working here!) but isn't the sanctioning fee for the current year paid in installments? Wasn't the story that RA did not meet the first installment for this year and that's why the race was in jeapordy? I guess they still have not ponied up.

[ColdHeart]

The dispute seems to center around the contract that was re-written last year. Basically, R-A felt they were going to lose money if things continued as is and asked that CART restructure their deal. Instead of a straight sanction agreement with R-A paying a set fee, they went to a co-promotion deal. In this case, R-A collects the ticket revenue, deducts expenses and splits the profits with CART. By some accounts, there is considerable doubt as to what expenses R-A could and could not deduct and the contract is apparently pretty vague. R-A claims they lost money last year and wanted some additional concessions for this year. CART said R-A made money last year and they wanted their share and they were not willing to talk about changing this year's deal since R-A was making money already.

I've not seen the agreement and I have no sure idea who is wrong or right but it doesn't seem logical that R-A would even risk cancellation if they were close to turning a profit.

[ColdHeart]

The above post may be a little too complicated. The short version:

CART: "Hey, R-A! Where's the money you owe us for last year?"
R-A: "Screw you, we lost our butts. We ain't giving you a dime for last year and we want you to lower our fee for this year!"
CART: "Whaddaya talking about? You made all kinds of money last year! Where is it?"
R-A: "That's what we'd like to know! You promised us a new deal and we still lost our ass!"
CART: "Well, sorry, deal's a deal! Pay up!"
R-A: "No way! If we pay for last year, we'll owe you a bunch for this year."
CART: "Well, if you won't pay last year's deal, there won't a 'this year' ."
R-A: "See ya!"

CART: "Regrettably....."

[Lateralus42]

Why am I not surprised that Coldsweat started this thread??


Coldsweat, a contract is a contract. You cant break a contract just because you think you got a raw deal. They signed it, they had to live up to it.

Screw Road America, what do they have left?? Talk about fading into oblivion.

[ColdHeart]

I haven't seen the contract and I have no idea who broke it. It is possible that CART broke the contract by not racing this year and by attempting to collect money they aren't owed for last year.

[FlatFoot]

How 'active' of a circuit is RA throughout the year? I presume because of the geographical location that they only run there March/April thru Sept/Oct?

Ross?

[Lateralus42]

Originally posted by ColdHeart
I haven't seen the contract and I have no idea who broke it. It is possible that CART broke the contract by not racing this year and by attempting to collect money they aren't owed for last year.

'Its is possible CART broke the contract...'


You never quit do you? You are so transparent.

[Manson]

They should reschedule at RA, Road Atlanta that is.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Lateralus42
Screw Road America, what do they have left?? Talk about fading into oblivion.

Screw Road America? The best track on the CART circuit? You're so pathetic.

And yet you hate ovals and are a firm road course freak, but don't give a damn about Road America, that's some interesting thinking.

As for the news:

[molive]

Sad day for real CART fans. Road America is a classic venue, a real drivers track with lots of great memories.

[Lateralus42]

Originally posted by Slyder


Screw Road America? The best track on the CART circuit? You're so pathetic.

And yet you hate ovals and are a firm road course freak, but don't give a damn about Road America, that's some interesting thinking.

As for the news:

What do you want me to do? Cry?

If Road America is not interested in hosting North Americas fastest cars, if they are not interested holding one of Wisconsin's biggest events than I say screw them. Nothing I can do about it. In the meantime I will enjoy what racing there is.

[fifi]

awww **** RA is one CART race that i used to enjoy watching

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by FlatFoot
How 'active' of a circuit is RA throughout the year? I presume because of the geographical location that they only run there March/April thru Sept/Oct?

Ross?

Its packed. Its one of the regional Skip Barber Racing School headquarters so they're constantly running racing schools, driving schools, race series events, etc.

Also Road America hosts AMA Superbike, American Le Mans, the Brian Redman Historic races (second only to Monterrey), and the June Sprints, one of the largest SCCA amateur races in the country.

[ColdHeart]

Originally posted by Lateralus42



'Its is possible CART broke the contract...'


You never quit do you? You are so transparent.

I said it is possible. I have no idea. It is also possible that CART is partially to blame here. Just a few days ago, AutoWeek printed an interview with Tony George:

“Sooner or later tracks like Mid-Ohio or Elkhart Lake are going to have to decide,” George observed, “whether they can host a CART event and have it be a profitable activity for them.”

That seems to sum up the situation: Road America has decided they can't make money by hosting CART races. No bad guys here, just business.

[Lateralus42]

Well thats a big DUH, CART cant compete if Tony George goes in with his checkbook at assumes all costs and pays off Road America. Whatever man, no one is going to watch crapwagons at Road America. TG is more interested in seeing CART lose the date than he is in building a viable fan base.

[ColdHeart]

Tony George has no interest in going to Road America:

2/12/03- After the report from earlier, the VP of Communications for the Indy Racing League, Fred Nation, wanted to issue the following statement in regards to the rumored ties of the IRL series to Road America.

"It is absolutely untrue that the Indy Racing League has a contract or plans to run at Road America in 2004 or the foreseeable future. There have been no discussions about such an agreement. At the recent State of the Series address at Fontana, Tony George reieterated again that we have no plans to add road courses in the foreseeable future. While we would certainly entertain opportunities under the right set of cirmcumstances, whether they be oval or other types of road courses, we are not currently planning any non-oval additions to our schedule in the foreseeable future."

[ColdHeart]

CART's suit alleged, among other things, that the track had failed to submit the first installment of its 2003 sanctioning fee. However, sources at the track told AutoWeek that a check was submitted on Friday March 7, in an amount agreed upon by attorneys representing both sides.

"This is very disappointing," said Road America press representative Cheryl Barnes. "We thought they were negotiating in good faith." She deferred further comment, awaiting a formal statement from track management that is expected shortly.

Worth repeating:

"We thought they were negotiating in good faith."


http://www.autoweek....t_code=08305615

[Manson]

If nothing else, this tells me that RA did intend to host a CART race in 2003. It will be reinstated.

[Lateralus42]

You are not trustworthy Coldsweat. I question your motives.

And saying that they gave CART a check some 60 days overdue doesnt make any sense. Either they paid or they didnt, 'the check is in the mail' is the favorite excuse for all deadbeats.

[ColdHeart]

Originally posted by Lateralus42
You are not trustworthy Coldsweat. I question your motives.

And saying that they gave CART a check some 60 days overdue doesnt make any sense. Either they paid or they didnt, 'the check is in the mail' is the favorite excuse for all deadbeats.

Read the article. Notice this quote:

...a check was submitted on Friday March 7, in an amount agreed upon by attorneys representing both sides.

[Lateralus42]

I read it coldsweat, it sounds like spin control. Its a simple matter, either they paid or they didnt. I dont think Pook or Clare were going to let Road America drag this out too long.

[917k]

Originally posted by Lateralus42
You are not trustworthy Coldsweat. I question your motives.

And saying that they gave CART a check some 60 days overdue doesnt make any sense. Either they paid or they didnt, 'the check is in the mail' is the favorite excuse for all deadbeats.

Good god,give the conspiracy a rest!That sort of thing belongs on AR1 or 7th grade.

And your assertion that you know whats going on is about as credible as a Coldheart.
BTW-pook himself said that RA didn't jive with the new CART,the all street circuit thingy he has this passion for,so it could be a change in focus.

Who knows,no one here,for sure.

[Lateralus42]

Originally posted by 917k


Good god,give the conspiracy a rest!That sort of thing belongs on AR1 or 7th grade.

And your assertion that you know whats going on is about as credible as a Coldheart.
BTW-pook himself said that RA didn't jive with the new CART,the all street circuit thingy he has this passion for,so it could be a change in focus.

Who knows,no one here,for sure.

What conspiracy are you babbling about? And dont try and belittle the people at AR1 and 7thgear, they have nothing to do with this.

[ColdHeart]

R-A spokesman said on radio this afternoon that the first they knew of the cancellation was when they saw it on the internet. They contacted CART who confirmed the cancellation. CART said they had received the check from R-A and were returning it.

[rapido]

isn't carl haas on the RA B.O.D? I've heard that TG covets the milwaukee mile, and I know haas has something to do with that track. there have also been reports of TG and CH breaking bread together and discussing things such as an entry for indy this year.

coincidence? I think not.

[ColdHeart]

From the Road America website:

http://www.roadameri...om/release.htm:


Contact: Cheryl Barnes 920.893.4206 / cheryl@roadamerica.com
For Immediate Release
March 10, 2003

Road America Statement
Grand Prix of Road America Canceled by CART

We were surprised and disappointed to learn of CART's recent statements and actions, especially CART's announcement today that they are canceling the Grand Prix of Road America, which was scheduled to be held at Road America on Aug. 3, 2003. Road America has a contract with CART and we have been preparing to host the fifth race under that contract in August. In fact, Road America has been attempting to negotiate a renewed contract with CART for 2004 and beyond. Road America has been acting in good faith in its dealings with CART and we have met all of our financial obligations under our agreement with CART.
Road America has supported CART since 1982, through the series' highs and lows, making CART's recent behavior even more disappointing. Road America has been proceeding with preparation for the 2003 race and CART's sudden decision to ignore its contractual obligations causes inconvenience to not only Road America, but to all race fans as well. We have been assured by our legal counsel that the true facts of our discussions and understanding with CART will eventually be made known through the litigation process but we felt an obligation to our business associates and fans to assure them of Road America's continuing commitment to quality racing.
While the track management and board members remain staunch CART supporters and have every hope for an amicable resolution of this unfortunate turn of events, the issue in our disagreement with CART is the value of the series to race fans and sponsors.

[flyer72]

Well something isn't right, that is for sure. There is a lot of time before august so I wouldn't be surprised if this is nothing more than a negotiation turn.

I just find it ironic that some people still think that lawyers are the answers. Either the race isn't profitable or it is - no need to get a bunch of lawyers involved to figure that out.

Why CART took that decision, I don't know, but something isn't right which would indicate the cancellation. Something tells me that CART did it because of money and nothing else, I think many teams would want to race at RA.

And coldheart - don't spin this in the ways you always do. We all know your motives.

[917k]

''And dont try and belittle the people at AR1 and 7thgear, they have nothing to do with this''

[Lateralus42]

Originally posted by 917k
''And dont try and belittle the people at AR1 and 7thgear, they have nothing to do with this''

WTF are you laughing at? You know something we dont? If you have a grudge against those people take it to them and stop acting like a little bitch.

[LCA]

Good to see the same old bitter rhetoric about CART, er, I mean ChampCar, is still in the air here at Atlas. I guess I haven't missed much at all...

By the by, I think RA was on the way out as far as Pook was concerned. The rural beauty of a road course doesn't fit ChampCar's new urban, big market, focus. More St Pete's and Denver's and Mexico City's are going to be added to the detriment of the Road America's and the Mid-Ohio's of the series. Kind of sad I guess to see the old classics go, but then again I can't imagine how they ever made financial sense to begin with.

OFF TOPIC: Did any of you CART guys here at Atlas go to the St Pete race? I hoping that you didn't so I can brag about how great it was and how I had seats right at turn one and saw more passing than I have ever seen at a ChampCar race, well, ever.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Lateralus42


What do you want me to do? Cry?

If Road America is not interested in hosting North Americas fastest cars, if they are not interested holding one of Wisconsin's biggest events than I say screw them. Nothing I can do about it. In the meantime I will enjoy what racing there is.

That's a great way for CART to expand its fanbase.

IF you think more boring street courses like Miami and Denver are the salvation of CART, you're sersiously screwed in the head.

[Lateralus42]

Originally posted by Slyder


That's a great way for CART to expand its fanbase.

IF you think more boring street courses like Miami and Denver are the salvation of CART, you're sersiously screwed in the head.

I didnt shed a tear for Spa, there is now way in hell that I am going to cry over Road America. BTW I like street circuits, although Miami and Denver are bad examples, even I dont like those.

My favorite street circuits:

Alpert Park-F1
Monaco-F1
Montreal-F1 and CART
Long Beach
Toronto
St. Pete
Surfers

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by Gambino
A bit off topic, but I find this funny.

get over it.

[masterhit]

That's really like selling the family silver. Stupid stuff CART. Get rid of one of the slower ovals FFS.

[Rob G]

Originally posted by LCA
Did any of you CART guys here at Atlas go to the St Pete race? I hoping that you didn't so I can brag about how great it was and how I had seats right at turn one and saw more passing than I have ever seen at a ChampCar race, well, ever.

I was there, third row from the top with Vasser's pit right in front of me. Great stuff.

[John B]

In this week's Autoweek there's an interview with Tony George which mentions ROad America and other road circuits several times. Perhaps most interesting was a reference to a possible future series promoted by George which races on the primier road courses (RA, the Glen, etc) with 'IRL type cars with fenders.'

[redracecar]

well I for one shed tears for Spa and now Road America....

to want street races over clearly the two greatest modern era circuits is inconceivable to me...

another blow to the CART series for sure...

[Manson]

Originally posted by Slyder

IF you think more boring street courses like Miami and Denver are the salvation of CART

Salvation no, but it does help build a fan base. Take Toronto for example. They get some 70 000 fans for race day alone. Mosport is 1 hr away from the majority of the GTA. No chance they would get 70 000 out to Mosport even though it would be cool. The best way to get new fans is to take the race to the people. Street courses do this despite their obvious limitations.

Saying that, dropping RA is still a shame.

[mattybinyon]

Originally posted by John B
In this week's Autoweek there's an interview with Tony George which mentions ROad America and other road circuits several times. Perhaps most interesting was a reference to a possible future series promoted by George which races on the primier road courses (RA, the Glen, etc) with 'IRL type cars with fenders.'

That article also said that the Texas fall race would be the first to go off of the IRL schedule calling it "the IRL's weakest event." That is a joke. Texas II outdrew Fontana, Homestead, and Nazareth combined. It also doubled the attandance at Nashville, Richmond, Michigan, Kentucky and Pike's Peak. It's more like the ninth or tenth weakest event on the IRL schedule. That author was smoking something. He also said that there's no five year plan, but if there was, a fendered open wheel series could come to fruition at the end of the five year plan that doesn't exist. I don't have a billion dollars, but I could build a full scale replica of Spa in my backyard with that billion dollars I don't have and I could use it as the cornerstone of a fatastic open wheel US based roadracing series.

[alan_owens]

Mosport draws big crowds for Trans-Am and ALMS. Okay, it's not 70,000 people, but I've heard figures around 30,000.

Having attended the Toronto CART race and all the big Mosport races for many years now, I can say that I much prefer going to Mosport. The only time that the CART race compared was when I had a photo pass and could wander almost anywhere I wanted. IMHO If Mosport were to hold a CART race, and the event was properly promoted, it would draw a huge crowd.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by masterhit
That's really like selling the family silver. Stupid stuff CART. Get rid of one of the slower ovals FFS.

I'm sorry,
but to all the poeple that are saying 'This is a blow to CART', and how this is a stupid decision on CART's Behalf, i have to ask,
Why should CART support a circuit that does not want to support CART?