75 replies to this topic

[shaggy]

I love RA and do not wish for it to go.
But, out of 19 races, RA came in number 14 as far as attendance is concerned; it only had 20k more than Miami at its inaugural race. This year, if RA were to be run, RA would probably drop from the top 15. So, it is not as if the future of CART is in the RA or if its death rests on RA's hands.

The fact of the matter is that Cleveland gets more people to its track and is also a track that actively seeks CART's help and its success. If RA does not want to be a part of CART, then, RA must go and CART needs to concentrate on Cleveland, Chicago and Mid-Ohio. Furthermore, Miami, St. Pete, Denver and Long Beach want CART to stay and grow and even San Francisco is looking at CART. Let's drop the dead weight and go where CART is wanted.

shaggy

[SteveB2]

Honestly if CART becomes a street circuit only series, I'm going to have a hard time watching any OW racing in the US. Their anywhere, anytime, any conditions promotion last captured EXACTLY what I like about the series. Then Surfers poked a hole in the "any conditions" aspect, but that was amazing amount of rain.

Shouldn't CART accept some of their less attended races in order to keep some of their core fans? I'll watch the other races, but I go out of my way to see RA and MO and LS. I would imagine, like a lot of things, I'm not alone, the numbers of people who feel the same way don't make much of a difference when TV ratings are concerned.

[Scudetto]

Living in Chicago, we had the two extremes on the CART calendar: The awful, paperclip-shaped Chicago Motor Speedway and one of the best of America's road courses, Road America. Both in very close proximity. Now, both are gone, one for the better, the other most undoubtedly for the worse.

I don't particularly care what the politics behind the scene are between CART and RA, in the same manner I don't care for the politics behind losing Spa. What I care about is that each series have lost one of its best and signature venues and it's the fans of each series that ultimately suffer.

I have damnable words for both CART and the FIA, but will bite in tounge in the hopes that the wishes of the fans ultimately prevail upon the sactioning bodies.

[aportinga]

Hey I recall the thread in Paddock club where I said there was only 1 person on this board that I would NOT want to meet.

;)

Anyone who enjoys the craptacular street races where these guys really show why they are NOT in F1 over a true race such as RA, has no concept of racing what so ever. These events (street races) while crucial and beneficial to CART, are nothing more then staged entertainment which many folks in CART admit is more PR politicing then actual racing.

By this very same logic I would expect some of you to equally be so passionate regarding NASCAR.

[aportinga]

I love RA and do not wish for it to go.
But, out of 19 races, RA came in number 14 as far as attendance is concerned; it only had 20k more than Miami at its inaugural race. This year, if RA were to be run, RA would probably drop from the top 15. So, it is not as if the future of CART is in the RA or if its death rests on RA's hands.

Interesting.... I imagine that with a ranking of 14 at a circuit which hosts a good deal of racing - that means the fans are mostly informed of the sport, I imaging that if the IRL were to take the helm that it would be a total disaster in terms of attendance..... perhaps even while giving seats away for free, they'd still probably only manage 9-15 thousand people.

But as explained in many posts prior, just development to set the cars up to run on such a circuit would be far to expensive and take allot of time.

Oh well, I guess that means Jport and I will be off to Ohio this year instead.

[The Kanisteri]

aportinga!

Out of topic, but do you never read your PMs?

[shaggy]

Originally posted by aportinga


Interesting.... I imagine that with a ranking of 14 at a circuit which hosts a good deal of racing - that means the fans are mostly informed of the sport, I imaging that if the IRL were to take the helm that it would be a total disaster in terms of attendance..... perhaps even while giving seats away for free, they'd still probably only manage 9-15 thousand people.

But as explained in many posts prior, just development to set the cars up to run on such a circuit would be far to expensive and take allot of time.

Oh well, I guess that means Jport and I will be off to Ohio this year instead.

Sadly, I think that road racing in the US is dead.
There is now talk that Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca are next on the chopping block. This would leave Portland and Cleveland as the only road courses in the US (and Portland would be the only natural road course); in fact, it appears that the IRL, with Toyota's help, is trying to get Long Beach away from CART.
I hope that if we lose natural road courses, we at least end up racing in airparks as in Cleveland - at least there will be open spaces and wide "roads."

Btw, Sara Fisher, in one of her answers to emails from fans, stated that "very soon" she will have to learn how to road race. Can you imagine her at RA or LB ? Last time, Danica flew by her at LB; I wonder what Dario or Helio will do to her at RA.

shaggy

[ColdHeart]

Last time, Danica flew by her at LB

Danica and Sarah raced at Long Beach? I don't remember this, was it in Trans-Am or Atlantics?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Pro Celebrity race. It what started the Danica Patrick myth

[shaggy]

Originally posted by ColdHeart


Danica and Sarah raced at Long Beach? I don't remember this, was it in Trans-Am or Atlantics?

That was at that Toyota Celebrity race at LB.
During practice at some track, where all the drivers were required to attend, Danica, allegedly, was something like 2 seconds faster than Sara (this was, I think, a few weeks after posting times for the BMW team (at ALMS ?) that were similar or faster than their current drivers).
She did beat Sam Hornish at karts when she was a 17 or so (in fact, he tried to run her off course and had a problem with her being a woman or so the story goes).
Sara did finsih 4th in that LB race but she was far behind, until the very end, when Danica and Tom got caught behind the other celebrities and Sara was able to catch up. That female swimmer (Torres ?) was the winner.

shaggy

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by shaggy
(this was, I think, a few weeks after posting times for the BMW team (at ALMS ?) that were similar or faster than their current drivers).

Ah yes, the PTG test at Sebring. Where Elton Julian was a second faster than Danica not having driven a race car in 18 months. I remember that test well.

She did beat Sam Hornish at karts when she was a 17 or so (in fact, he tried to run her off course and had a problem with her being a woman or so the story goes).

Thats like the no-names claming they beat Button and Montoya in the junior ranks but currently flip burgers while those two make millions on the F1 circuit

Beating Fisher is meaningless. I could probably beat her and most other oval-only trained drivers on a road course. I have nearly as many road course starts in my career as Jeff Gordon.

[Manson]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
[B]Thats like the no-names claming they beat Button and Montoya in the junior ranks but currently flip burgers while those two make millions on the F1 circuit
B]

Paul Tracy forced my off on the straight in karts once. Some things never change! Luckily, I don't have to flip burgers now

[ColdHeart]

Sara did finsih 4th in that LB race but she was far behind, until the very end, when Danica and Tom got caught behind the other celebrities and Sara was able to catch up. That female swimmer (Torres ?) was the winner.

Ah, fabled Toyota Pro Celebrity event, that universally regarded barometer of talent. 2 questions:

1. If Danica is so talented, how come she didn't beat the swimmer?
2. If this race says so much about ability, how come Rahal didn't hire the swimmer?

[Rob G]

Originally posted by ColdHeart
If Danica is so talented, how come she didn't beat the swimmer?

It's a handicap event. The celebs get a head start.

[shaggy]

Originally posted by ColdHeart


Ah, fabled Toyota Pro Celebrity event, that universally regarded barometer of talent. 2 questions:

1. If Danica is so talented, how come she didn't beat the swimmer?
2. If this race says so much about ability, how come Rahal didn't hire the swimmer?

My point was that through testing, qualifying and the race, Danica was much faster than Sara (or is Sarah with an "h" ?).
Now, I had never heard of Danica until then and was pleased to see a woman being fast. Having said that, I appear to be coming around to Ross's point of view in that she is not as fast as she is portrayed; nevertheless, she can handle her own much better than Sarah.

Re : the swimmer. Nonpros are given half a lap or so of advantage. The pros have to pass all nonpros before they get to the top. They only have 15 laps or so and by the last lap both, Danica and Tom, had passed all the other nonpros and had Torres in their sight; a few more laps (2 or 3 at most) and they would have passed her too.

Getting back to the point at hand : could CART file a monopoly suit against ISC and IMS ?

I fear that OW in the US is going to end up like Nascar (i.e. 18 ovals and 2 road courses - one at RA and the other at LB).
At this point, i would not mind if CART dies as long as we keep road courses; but, if all we have is token races (2 or 3), then, it is over for me as far as OW in the US.

shaggy

[Ross Stonefeld]

looks at watch....

[Rob G]

It's on! The Mario Andretti Grand Prix at Road America!

[cjpani]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
looks at watch....

damn you, ,how did you....
uh nevermind


great news indeed!!!!

[Schuting Star]

Nice one! Well done Mario

[Lateralus42]

I bet this ruined Coldheart's day, it brings a tear to my eye.

Well done Mario, now step away from the crapwagons before you get yourself killed.

[Lateralus42]

No sooner that I write a warning to Mario, I find out the guy goes and gets into a big crash. I think he is OK though. :

[flyboy]

The Road America date is still in direct conflict with the annual Experimental Aircraft Association Oskosh event, which draws 500,000+. I wonder how the area can handle that many people? Does anyone know if they have ever been on the same weekend before?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I have


the situation is to be avoided at all costs

[Locai]

Originally posted by shaggy

Getting back to the point at hand : could CART file a monopoly suit against ISC and IMS ?

If 2 entities are involved, then it's technically not a MONO poly. I believe it would be an anti-trust or restraint-of-trade suit.

But, I've often wondered when either CART will file a suit trying to split the IRL from IMS or Bruton Smith will file a suit trying to split NASCAR from ISC.

[shaggy]

Originally posted by Locai


If 2 entities are involved, then it's technically not a MONO poly. I believe it would be an anti-trust or restraint-of-trade suit.

But, I've often wondered when either CART will file a suit trying to split the IRL from IMS or Bruton Smith will file a suit trying to split NASCAR from ISC.

I am no lawyer - I did not even know about the difference b/w monopoly and antitrust - I am an Engineer by training.
But, it has always bothered me that there is such close connection b/w the IRL and ISC. Look at the deals the IRL signs with ABC and the different engine manufacturers (even the chassis makers) : apparently, if you make an engine for the IRL, or a chassis, you cannot have any deals with any other OW racing series in the US. Otherwise, no deal is made with Rehab Boy.
Again, it just appears to me that this must be illegal.
If Lola wants to build a chassis for the IRL, they have to quit CART.
If Panoz wants to buils a chassis for CART, they must quit the IRL. Something is weird.
Similar with the ISC.

I guess CART has more pressing needs than a lawsuit; but, if CART dies, someone should file the lawsuit. I hope.

shaggy

[Manson]

Originally posted by Manson
Don't be surprised if CART called their bluff and the race is reinstated later.

Hate to say I told you so, alright!!!