56 replies to this topic

[AtlanticRacer]

I figured this would be a good question to ask on St. Patty's day and all...EI (even though he is from Ulster) comes to mind, as much as I don't care for him.

[ian senior]

Seem to remember a bloke called Watson was a fairly good driver.

[D-Type]

Wasn't Henry Segrave Irish?

[Bruce Moxon]

Hul-LOW. Paddy Hopkirk? End of discussion. Well, not really, but he'd have to be a contender.

BTW, I know where the Mini he drove at Bathurst is. It's rotting away in a paddock, because the owner will neither sell it nor do anything with it. Sad.


Bruce Moxon

[mikedeering]

I can see this one being dragged into yet another debate on the definition of UK/British Isles/Northern Ireland/Britain. I would assume both Wattie and Irvine should be excluded from this question as they are from the North? Derek Daly anyone???

[O Volante]

Hugh Hamilton?

[Vincenzo Lancia]

Innes Ireland.......

[Eric McLoughlin]

I think most people born and bred in Northern Ireland would still look on themselves as Irish. Watson, Hopkirk amd Irvine are therefore all eligible in any survey of Irish drivers. To be honest, the Six Counties has a more extensive motor sport heitage than the the rest of the country, mainly due, I'm sure, to its industrial and engineering history.

The only Republic of Ireland driver to make any impact at the highest levels has to be Derek Daly.

[BRG]

I immediately thought of Martin Donelly and Kenny Acheson, but when I checked, they were both N. Irish. It looks like Ralph Firman's unexpected defection to Ireland may help after all...

[uechtel]

Another question I have intended to ask since a long time:

Was Kenelm Lee Guinness "Republican" Irish or "Northern" Irish? I am not very firm in Irish history, but I think he had his active career just about that time, when both parts of the country began to separate from each other. Because of the brewery I had thought he was citizen of the Irish Republic. But if so then on the other hand I would have expected some political problems for him driving for a British team?

So is there an interesting story behind that?

[D-Type]

Desmond Titterington was an Ulsterman

Duncan Hamilton was (I believe) born in Ireland - he certainly grew up there. I suppose he'd be classified Anglo Irish. I'm sure he celebrated St Patrick's day

So, I reckon they are the two contenders for the fastest Irish driver of a D-Type!

Well, it is St Patrick's day

[Eric McLoughlin]

KLG was a member of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy. As far as I'm aware he was from that part of Ireland which is now the Republic.

Don't forget that although partition occured in 1921, the 26 counties only became the Republic of Ireland in 1948. Between 1921 and 1948 it was known as the Irish Free State (and was, ironically, a member of the British Commonwealth in those years).

[eldougo]

I remember a guy named David Kennedy ,he never got to the top however was a half a
chance given the right car.

[Ray Bell]

Did rather well in a Wolf at Surfers Paradise one day...

[Eric McLoughlin]

Kennedy and Daly were contemporaries, both having graduated from the very healthy Irish Formula Ford scene in the mid 1970s. They had both worked in an iron ore mine in Austarlia in 1974 to raise funds to buy their Formula Ford cars for the 1975 season. Kennedy never got the backing to allow him to progress to World Championship F1, although he did well in the Briitish Aurora F1 Championship in 1978 or 79(?) fighting it out to the wire with Rupert Keegan.

Irish drivers, particularly those from the Republic have major difficulties getting financial backing (and the Brritish drivers moan). Since that brief period in the mid to late 70s, the Republic has not thrown up any serious contenders for an F1 seat.

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by eldougo
I remember a guy named David Kennedy ,he never got to the top however was a half a
chance given the right car.

Gee, I've never heard that one before.


John Watson on road
Bertie Fisher off road

Ray if I remember correctly, Kennedy and Daly tangled in a race over here which was amusing as they were the only 2 real competitors (based on equipment).

[Ray Bell]

Not Daly, I don't think he ever raced here...

The other car Teddy brought out that year was the Ensign for David Purley... it was Purley, wasn't it?

[LittleChris]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
. Kennedy never got the backing to allow him to progress to World Championship F1,

Didn't he attermpt to qualify a Shadow at Interlagos for the Brazilian GP in 1980 with Stefan Johansson as a non-qualifying team-mate ?

[BRG]

David Kennedy (born in Sligo, so definitely Irish!) made 8 attempts to qualify for Shadow in 1980, and failed 7 times. However, he DID qualify (22nd & last) for the Spanish GP, but retired in a first lap accident. The race was subsequently stripped of WC status (part of the FIASCO wars saga).

[Kuwashima]

What a co-incidence! We just did an interview with David Kennedy for our website, at the Australian GP in Melbourne two weeks ago - a great guy. He's now Ralph Firman's manager, if anyone didn't know that.

Cough... anyone got any non-F1 pictures of Kennedy??

Pleeease??

;)

Cheers,
Jamie

[Darren Galpin]

There was one a year or two back in Autosport after the Stormont motorsport demonstration that they had there.

[FredF1]

Try here:

RTE Profile

Or here:
Irishcar.com

[Doug Nye]

Jack O'Mally....? Moss O'Lini....?

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I was always a big fan of O'Malley's compatriot, Jack Lafferty.

[Don Capps]

Jimmy Murphy!!!!!

[uechtel]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
KLG was a member of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy. As far as I'm aware he was from that part of Ireland which is now the Republic.

Don't forget that although partition occured in 1921, the 26 counties only became the Republic of Ireland in 1948. Between 1921 and 1948 it was known as the Irish Free State (and was, ironically, a member of the British Commonwealth in those years).

Eric, thank you, this is a lot clearer to me now.

[Bondy]

Just on the Dave Kennedy deal in Aus, he drove for Theodore in a Wolf and hes team mate was the equally talented but underated Geoff Lees, i believe you may be getting him mixed up with daly. Lees drove an Ensign for the first few rounds then joined Kennedy in a Wolf. In the final round there was a 3rd car, Aussie Legend John Goss in the Ensign, awwwe the memories, but Ray will remember more, hehe, i seem to recall someone running over a TV cable or something, it happened a bit at Oran Park in those days, lol

[eldougo]

Thanks FRED for those links to see photo,s of DAVID ,i can,t believe he still looks the
same as when i last talked to him in 1980 . Must be the IRISH weather.

[man]

Martin Donnelly was a very capable driver who sadly didn't have the opportunity to develop into the fine GP driver many expected.

[green-blood]

Damian Faulkner - watch this space....

up to now, Watson shades Irvine....his charge in 82 was all of his own doing...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Faulkner has no money and hasnt raced since what, mid-season 2001? He wont factor in top line motorsports imo.



btw the business conglomerate backing Ralph Firman's Jordan drive (read the check writers) are Martin Birrane, David Kennedy, and David Matthews

[Mike Argetsinger]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld

btw the business conglomerate backing Ralph Firman's Jordan drive (read the check writers) are Martin Birrane, David Kennedy, and David Matthews

Good for them!! It is great to see people give back to the sport by giving a deserving driver a break. Firman is as deserving as the next guy. I just hope his chance hasn't come too late.

David Kennedy, by the way, was a brilliant driver and certainly had the talent to be a top line Grand Prix driver. Just one of the many who didn't get the right chance at the right time. But he still achieved a great deal and the fact that he didn't get a place in a top F-1 team in no way lessens how very good he was. Perhaps that's why he wants to see someone else get a fair shot.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Mike Argetsinger



Good for them!! It is great to see people give back to the sport by giving a deserving driver a break. Firman is as deserving as the next guy. I just hope his chance hasn't come too late.

Now Michael...

You and I both know very few people, especially at this high a level, put in $1 unless they think they can somehow get $1.50 back


The Biranne/Kennedy/Matthews coalition paid for Firman's drive. Their fee also purchased a certain amount of ad space on the Jordan. They have permission to resell that space to brand names for a higher fee. They are involved in a business decision not a sporting decision.

I personally think its a terrible idea. If the strength, experience, and prowess of a marketer like the Jordan commercial team cant sell the flanks of the car, what hope do a few private businessmen have?

And personally Firman is and will allways be British to me, not Irish.

[Mike Argetsinger]

Interesting comments Ross, but they don't much alter my view.

First off, irrespective of their motives, they have stepped up to put a deserving driver in a decent F-1 seat. If they make a buck off the deal who cares?

And Firman's nationality isn't at issue here as far I'm concerned. It was David Kennedy's talent that I was touting.

I don't know if Ralph Firman is good enough to make it or not. But he's obviously talented and deserving of a chance and I'm awfully glad someone has found a way to give him that opportunity.

When money is the deciding factor some people find their way in to an F-1 drive because they have deep pockets personally - some because they have access to a sponsor of one sort or another. In this case it seems to be an entreprenurial sort of thing. I fail to see an essential difference. The driver ultimately must perform.

And just to keep this from being thrown off the nostalgia forum - let me just say again that David Kennedy could really fly!!

[Ian McKean]

Rory O'Hanlon?

[Doug Nye]

I think Don's got it....genuinely - Jimmy Murphy, indeed. Every other driver of Irish extraction sems to pale into insignificance against his achievements with just one exception - H.O.D. Segrave.

DCN

[Vitesse2]

Dinny O'Rafferty

[Prostfan]

I once heard the quote "I'm Britsh when I win but Irish when I loose" but I don't remember the context (John Watson?). Any ideas?

[Twin Window]

I'm astonished that nobody has mentioned Tommy Byrne!!!!! He had talent to spare and Ralph Firman (Snr) rated him on a par with Senna, ability-wise...

TW

[Barry Lake]

There is a book: "Leslie Porter - Ireland's Pioneer Racing Driver" by Bob Montgomery. I haven't read it, but sounds like he should get a mention here.

[ensign14]

If we're including Irish extraction, which I think is cheating (on a par with claiming Vukovich as the best Yugoslav ever), then Pat Flaherty is also worth considering, perhaps; bejaysus, he even had a shamrock on his helmet.

Or even Joe Weatherly.

[BRG]

As this has involved a certain amount of scraping the bottom of the (Guinness) barrel to find many Irish drivers of any real note, let's at least let them throw in their best rally driver. No, not Paddy or Bertie, but Billy Coleman .

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Kuwashima
Cough... anyone got any non-F1 pictures of Kennedy??

Depends whether or not you count Aurora as 'F1'

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Kuwashima
What a co-incidence! We just did an interview with David Kennedy for our website, at the Australian GP in Melbourne two weeks ago - a great guy. He's now Ralph Firman's manager, if anyone didn't know that.

Cough... anyone got any non-F1 pictures of Kennedy??

Pleeease??

;)

Cheers,
Jamie

Think I have some from when he was in Formula Ford in the 70s.Sorry no means of posting at the moment.

[FredF1]

Originally posted by BRG
As this has involved a certain amount of scraping the bottom of the (Guinness) barrel to find many Irish drivers of any real note, let's at least let them throw in their best rally driver. No, not Paddy or Bertie, but Billy Coleman .

There was a profile of Billy on Irish tv the other week. Some wonderful footage of him throwing a Lancia Stratos about in the West Cork Rally.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by dolomite

[/B]

That looks like Thruxton main gate entrance to the pits. Great pic thanks Dolomite.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Jimmy Murphy!!!!!

Was Jimmy born in Ireland or the US?

What a loss. He's one of too many that one has to wonder how much he might have accomplished. Many summers ago I had the good fortune to take a couple of laps around the Syracuse mile track, and the thought of doing it in anger with the cars of his day is very sobering.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Pretty sure he was American. He was orphaned, apparently, by the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

[dolomite]

Originally posted by eldougo


That looks like Thruxton main gate entrance to the pits. Great pic thanks Dolomite.

Yes it is. Taken during the morning practice for the Thruxton Aurora race in September 1979.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Kuwashima
What a co-incidence! We just did an interview with David Kennedy for our website, at the Australian GP in Melbourne two weeks ago - a great guy. He's now Ralph Firman's manager, if anyone didn't know that.

Cough... anyone got any non-F1 pictures of Kennedy??

Pleeease??

;)

Cheers,
Jamie

"Ralph Firman's manager"

With all due respect to Kennedy, I am in deep shock. Is this true?

Incidentally, I thought David was brilliant, infinitely better than Daly. It's absolutely tragic that he was never given the opportunities he clearly deserved.

MCS