25 replies to this topic

[Alaweni]

Here is an article where MotoGP rider Olivier Jacque is quoted how he is looking forward to seeing the changes to Suzuka. He mentiones that 130R has been reprofiled and the last chicane is gone! Anyone else know about this?

http://www.crash.net...01&language_id=

[mplach]

i remember briefly reading something about this in december or november maybe. 130r is going to be re-profiled so that it isnt as sharp and so that there can be more run-off area. i forget what is happening with the chicane though. single corner perhaps?

[Alaweni]

Here is another article about track changes made last year...I don't remember anyone mentioning this before.

http://www.racinglin...view/2143/1/76/

[black magic]

Having spoken with graeme crosby former 500 cc rider that corner without chicane is too fast with the amount of g being pulled. whilst he enjoyed the challenge he damned near was blacking out from the forces.

[Clatter]

Originally posted by black magic
Having spoken with graeme crosby former 500 cc rider that corner without chicane is too fast with the amount of g being pulled. whilst he enjoyed the challenge he damned near was blacking out from the forces.

How can the corner be blamed for being too fast?

If he is having problems with the forces then its his problem for going too fast, afterall he is the one controlling thr throttle and brakes....

[mikedeering]

130R reprofiled as mentioned to allow for more run off.

The chicane has been moved back towards 130R. A second chicane has been added after the first one, but this will apply to motorcycle races only - they now go round 130R, into the usual right-left chicance, then have another right-left chicane onto the finish straight - sort of similar to the bus stop at Spa I guess. Cars will not use the second chicane.

More details on eTracks

[CONOSUR]

Basically, it looks like 130R itself is to be a big chicane. They could've actually reprofiled it and everything would've been fine, but, no, they're choosing to butcher it the same way they did Tamburello.

Looks like more of Max's BS - "No fast corners allowed!"

[CONOSUR]

Wait a minute, I was looking at it upsidedown. Actually, now, it looks exactly like what I said they should've done. They've merely pulled in 130R (which is exactly what they should've done with Tamburello) and opened up the Casino Chicane a bit. Good work, actually.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Wait a minute, I was looking at it upsidedown. Actually, now, it looks exactly like what I said they should've done. They've merely pulled in 130R (which is exactly what they should've done with Tamburello) and opened up the Casino Chicane a bit. Good work, actually.

From to
There's hope for f1, never give up, never surrender..

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Clatter
How can the corner be blamed for being too fast?

If he is having problems with the forces then its his problem for going too fast, afterall he is the one controlling thr throttle and brakes....

Do you remember last year when an American oval race was cancelled because of the risks to the drivers?

[Clatter]

No, but I dont really follow oval racing.

I get really fed up hearing how dangerous this or that corner is. Dragsters run in a straight line and still manage to crash.

Whilst I totally agree with the need for appropriate run off areas, I totally dis-agree with the idea of corners being nutured because a driver/rider says they are too dangerous at top speed. If thats the case then they should slow down.

[CLX]

The changes seem ok, they don't change the nature of the track and 130R will still be a blind fast blistering corner/turn.

[Al.]

Originally posted by Clatter
No, but I dont really follow oval racing.

I get really fed up hearing how dangerous this or that corner is. Dragsters run in a straight line and still manage to crash.

Whilst I totally agree with the need for appropriate run off areas, I totally dis-agree with the idea of corners being nutured because a driver/rider says they are too dangerous at top speed. If thats the case then they should slow down.

I believe it was Texas (but I stand to be corrected) and the problem was that drivers were close to blacking out after short periods of time (I belive 15 minutes) due to the high speeds and the steep angle of banking, combining to create high g-forces over a sustained period of time. I don't know about you, but the thought of someone blacking out whilst at the wheel of a 200mph porjectile doesn't seem too clever.

[Clatter]

No I agree it doesnt, but I've nearly blacked out when pulling high G when flying. I realised it was happening and didnt pull as hard after that. Its the same for these guys.

If they are blacking out due to high G at speeds then slow down, dont blame the track, blame the drivers for exceeding their limit.

[Garagiste]

I'm kind of with you as far as road courses go, Clatter, but you're going a bit far with the Texas incident, IMO. These guys are racing drivers, going as fast as they can is what they are all about. I realise that if you black out, that means you are going faster than you can - but the point is that they were still going to go for it, adrenaline would see to that, and they may not have realised they had gone too far until it was too late. In that situation, I can't blame the drivers - the combination of car and track just didn't work.

[CONOSUR]

When flying, and you pull back on the stick to go up, you create what pilots refer to as Positive G forces. Steeply banked oval tracks also create these same Positive Gs, which basically push the car down onto the track more so than normal. The same force is applied to the driver; your butt gets pushed down into the seat, blood rushes from your head. Excessive Positive G forces are as difficult for drivers as for pilots. Sustained +G forces, and I'm referring to many minutes vs seconds, are too difficult for anyone - pilots or drivers. Imagine a driver running a whole race under the Vertical+G strain they feel as they climb up Radillon at Spa, which appears to be (and I'm guessing here) about a 4-5g crunch. Doing that for a couple of seconds is entirely different than experiencing that same effect for a race distance.

On road courses, drivers experience mostly Lateral Gs, not Vertical Gs. In F1, +G refers to acceleration, because the G forces are measured laterally. On banked ovals (and, yes, Texas Motor Speedway was the track in question), drivers experience vertical Gs. The faster you go, the more Gs you generate. If you're stupid enough to keep going faster and induce dizziness, well maybe you should slow down... or get a G-suit.

The problem is that racers want to race and that one oval track was just banked way too much for cars to travel at those speeds for any real length of time. The fault doesn't lie with the track, though. CART's officials should've been able to simulate the race and recognize the potential for danger.

As for 130R and other F1 related corners, it's all bullshit. There's no such thing as a corner that's too fast - even for a second or two. If a driver feels it's too fast or too dangerous, he's in the wrong sport.

F1 drivers will never experience the type of continuous vertical+G developed on too-steep banking. CART tried and couldn't handle it, and NASCAR doesn't go fast enough at that track for it to be an issue.

[black magic]

Ididn'y sayby the way that crosby didn't enjoy the corner. just that he admitted it was dangrously fast. there is an important diffeerence.

[karlth]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Wait a minute, I was looking at it upsidedown.

though for posting that, not many people would have.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Wait a minute, I was looking at it upsidedown. Actually, now, it looks exactly like what I said they should've done. They've merely pulled in 130R (which is exactly what they should've done with Tamburello) and opened up the Casino Chicane a bit. Good work, actually.

, that was excellent, good recovery there CONOSUR!!

[CONOSUR]

karlth & Ghostrider

I'm not afraid to admit it when I'm wrong, and that one was glaringly obvious after I went back and looked at it again...







Sometimes you feel like a nut, and sometimes you actually are...

[ebin]

It might just be me but I think the reprofiling of 130R won't change the difficulty level of the turn itself. The initial turn-in radius of 130R is now 85 metres rather than 130 metres (thus tighter) and the cars will still approach at 190mph. Now some drivers won't be able to take it flat-out (they might even have to tap the brakes). but those who do will be some kind of brave.

[BRG]

Those of you who watched ony of the MotoGP from Japan on Sunday will have seen the realignments to 130R and the chicane. What were your thoughts?

I reckoned that they have made 130R (or has it got a new name now?) a bit easier - the bikers seemed able to take it flatout and I reckon it will now be easily flat for a F1 car. So that challenge has gone the way of so many others, sadly. I'm not sure that it will even be any safer - if anything, it is even quicker than before, whilst the run-off is not hugely increased.

The chicane is a lot better - more open - although at the end of the day, it is still a chicane. I understand that the second left/right part is only to be used for bikes? The pitlane entrance is now off the exit from the chicane, which shortens the total pitlane length a bit.

[random]

I watched the race and hardly recognized the corner any longer. The corner has been entirely gutted. The correct solution would have been to increase the runoff, not to destroy the corner.

But what else is new, all the great tracks are being gutted.

[Viktor]

Originally posted by random
I watched the race and hardly recognized the corner any longer. The corner has been entirely gutted. The correct solution would have been to increase the runoff, not to destroy the corner.

But what else is new, all the great tracks are being gutted.

If you look at a map of Suzuka you will soon see that there is no room for a increased runoff area in 130R, the track (last of the S bends) ar in the way for that.

/Viktor

[random]

Better to change the S-bends than 130R.

[balaclava]

They destroyed one of the most challenging corners of the calendar
Suzuka is a dangerous, challenging circuit on the whole... the fences and walls are too close, and the firm is quite narrow.