26 replies to this topic

[unrepentant lurker]

I thought it was verbotten to push start the car from the pits? I saw a Jordan, Firman I think get a push out of the pits. It happened at Oz too, can't remember who though?

[A3]

It's helping the clutch to pick up, not really starting the car.

[LindaC]

It's OK as long as they don't push the car past the line at the end of the pitlane, according to Brundle and Allen on ITV, and I believe that's correct.

[Locai]

You can't push start an F1 engine. It won't work. You have to pressurize the pneumatic valves.

If you could push start the cars then you wouldn't see them just leave a stalled car on the track. You'd see the marshalls push start the car to get it on its way.


The Speed Channel announcers brought up the subject of the Jordan crew giving the cars a push at the end of the pit stops. They said it's just to take some of the stress off the clutch.

[CONOSUR]

It's allowed in the pitlane by team members.

It's not allowed on the track by marshals.

[madmac]

Originally posted by Locai
You can't push start an F1 engine. It won't work. You have to pressurize the pneumatic valves.

.

Not so sure there, recall Monaco ('97?) where Irvine was being pushed off the circuit by the marshalls at Lowes, got the thing pointed down hill, rolled and got it running! feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

[metz]

Not quite off topic, but..
We saw Fisi reversing on the starting grid and it was mentioned that this was not a legal move.
No penalty was called.
I looked through the regs but it makes no mention of this.
Does the reverse rule only apply during the race, ie after the start?

[Vunz]

I remember a car coming to a halt in the pitentrance at Spa a few years ago, I believe it was Irvine, it was pushed by the teammembers to the box, thus allowing it to be repaired. So pushing the car in the pitlane is allowed.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Locai
You can't push start an F1 engine. It won't work. You have to pressurize the pneumatic valves.

If you could push start the cars then you wouldn't see them just leave a stalled car on the track. You'd see the marshalls push start the car to get it on its way.

The marshalls dont bump start because of the rules. Not sure about the valve thing though

[CONOSUR]

There's only no driver-induced reversing in the pitlane. That's why you only ever see the mechanics pushing the car backwards. Reversing on track is legal.

Fisi did the right thing by reversing and allowing the race to procede versus having a yellow waved and the start aborted. If only more drivers were that conscientious.

[MarkWRX]

First time I have ever seen a Formula 1 car parallel park. Wish Fisi had been able to get going when the lights went out though.

Mark

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by MarkWRX
First time I have ever seen a Formula 1 car parallel park. Wish Fisi had been able to get going when the lights went out though.

Mark

[Locai]

I am pretty sure that at one time I heard or read that the pneumatic valves had to be pressurized in order for the engines to crank. I seem to remember this being mentioned more than once in past seasons.

But, to be honest, I'm not so sure anymore. I think I'll have to post the question on the Tech forum.

[AlesiUK]

Originally posted by unrepentant lurker
I thought it was verbotten to push start the car from the pits? I saw a Jordan, Firman I think get a push out of the pits. It happened at Oz too, can't remember who though?

wansnt the prob with firman that he couldnt select 1st gear,but managed to get second(which i thought was impossible ona semi-auto) so needed a push to get up to speed to get away in 2nd.happens in NASCAR quite a lot.


as for F1 engines not being able to be push started,unless it has change in the last 7 or 8 years then you can easily puch start an f1 car the same way as you would a road car.

remmeber senna lost the WDC in 1990 because his car was push started.

[brad_d]

Michael Schumacher overshot is grid spot at last year's USGP, and reversed a bit to get back into it. He was not penalized. There was a bit of "FIA Ferrari favoritism" outrage on these boards, which quietly went away when it was discovered that it really was perfectly legal.

[reedemer]

remmeber senna lost the WDC in 1990 because his car was push started.

erm....

[Vunz]

Originally posted by MarkWRX
First time I have ever seen a Formula 1 car parallel park. Wish Fisi had been able to get going when the lights went out though.

Mark

This was the second time for Fisi in Malaysia to miss his spot iirc.

[AlesiUK]

Originally posted by reedemer


erm....

oops

it would have been 89 that he lost the title,considering he was WDC in 90!

gimie a break here,it was very late at nite and id had a few beers!

[Dudley]

You are entirely able to push start an F1 car.

However it is illegal to do so except in the pit lane speed limit area.

Additionally it is legal to reverse before the start but not after, especially int he pitlane.

[CONOSUR]

A driver may never reverse in the pitlane.

A driver may reverse at any time while on the race track, both before the start and after.

Reversing while on the track is usually done to extricate oneself from some form of mishap, as Fisi did at the start when he missed his grid slot, or during the race if a driver finds himself in the regretable position of needing to go backwards.

[maxie]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
A driver may never reverse in the pitlane.

I know it's the established rule, but its rationale is?

[CONOSUR]

The close confines of the pitlane do not allow a driver to reverse safely; too dangerous because there are too many people around.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
The close confines of the pitlane do not allow a driver to reverse safely; too dangerous because there are too many people around.

Mansell pitcrew trying it in 1991 I believe, what drama, tyre came off, reversed, put tyre on, car was lifted by hands by many, then went out. Dangerous.

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by SeanValen
Mansell pitcrew trying it in 1991 I believe, what drama, tyre came off, reversed, put tyre on, car was lifted by hands by many, then went out. Dangerous.

...then penalized, too, iIrc.

[Zmeej]

MarkWRX

First time I have ever seen a Formula 1 car parallel park.

Wish I'd thought of saying that!

Wish Fisi had been able to get going when the lights went out though.

My sentiments exackly. :

[Enkei]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
...then penalized, too, iIrc.

Why does everyone have that midget as their avatar

[mera308gtb]

remmeber senna lost the WDC in 1989 because his car was push started.

He lost the race (not the WDC) because of the push start. Even if he would have won Japan, Senna still needed to win in Australia, which he did not do. Prost beat him by 11 points in the WDC, two points more than the worth of a win.

Mansell pitcrew trying it in 1991 I believe, what drama, tyre came off, reversed, put tyre on, car was lifted by hands by many, then went out. Dangerous.

The tire coming off was indeed in 1991. However, I wonder if you are also thinking about Mansell in 1989 at the same track (Estoril). He mistook the McLaren pit for the Ferrari pit and thus overshot his crew. He engaged reverse to back up to his pit space. Later, it was decided to black flag him. Mansell ignored, or never saw (depending on whom you ask), the black flag and then ran into Senna.