28 replies to this topic

[Nustang70]

People have been raving about him, Atlas hints that he may join Newey and Byrne as the top designers in F1. I dont think he has done anything that impressive. The past two Williams werent winning races because of a superior chassis...and this year's BAR, although a vast improvement to the crap they produced in the past, doesnt seem that great either. So why is he being heralded as the next great one? Mike Gascoyne deserves much, much more recognition.

[Vrba]

The answer is simple. People who are praising him or whatever designer entering fashion are not engineers by themselves and know noting about actual process of designing the car. Therefore, their reasons and conclusions are in vast segment based on pure fiction. Knowledge of the most journalists is on the level of Tom "twin-keel-is-worth-0.7-of-a-second-per-lap" Rubython.
The best thing is not to read such things.
Now, that doesn't mean Willis isn't excellent engineer. It simply means that press hype i snever to be paid attenton on.

Hrvoje

[eoin]

I was going to start a similar thread the other day.
Willis couldn't design a contender when he was with willams-even with the best engine but now he getting praise as he has designed a car that is about the 5-6 best on the grid(Ferrari,Mcl,Renault,Sauber,Willams)
Mike Gascoyne designed a jordan that was a championship contender with an over weight Mugen-honda engine, and has now has moved on to renault where again he has designed another great car. Getting on the podium with the worst engine in F1 is pretty impressive.

[Ghostrider]

Gascoyne is top-notch, we knew that since his Jordan days. The biggest problem with Gascoyne's cars have been unreliability but the performance has always been there. I think Willis has done a great job with BAR considering their lift in performance this year compared to last. One has to remember that Gascoyne has brought the best people from the Jordan team in 99 over to Renault, so I think Gascoyne has a better overall design team than Willis has.

[karlth]

Gascoyne always designs great cars according to himself. A talented designer no doubt but with a huge ego to match.

[Marlowe]

Willis has done a great job so far. He has revitalized and put direction to a terrible BAR technical team.

Willis has received praise from Anderson (of Jordan) and Rampf (of Sauber). In this respect, Vrba's comment: "People who are praising him or whatever designer entering fashion are not engineers by themselves and know noting about actual process of designing the car" is not entirely accurate.

The performance of the BAR in the first two races seemed a little inconsistent and it is difficult to place a verdict on the BAR.

[bira]

Originally posted by Vrba
The answer is simple. People who are praising him or whatever designer entering fashion are not engineers by themselves and know noting about actual process of designing the car.

Heh, funny you should say that, considering Karl Ludvigsen's and Will Gray's extensive experience in design and engineering. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you know nothing about the actual process of writing an article?

[edit]
I just remembered that you're not a subscriber, so that means you also don't have a clue what these articles say. Interesting that you would then elect to make judgement on people's knowledge, considering you have absolutely none.
[/edit]

[Vrba]

Originally posted by bira


Heh, funny you should say that, considering Karl Ludvigsen's and Will Gray's extensive experience in design and engineering. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that you know nothing about the actual process of writing an article?

[edit]
I just remembered that you're not a subscriber, so that means you also don't have a clue what these articles say. Interesting that you would then elect to make judgement on people's knowledge, considering you have absolutely none.
[/edit]

I was speaking in general and not necessarily about Karl Ludvigsen's and Will Gray's article that you're right to point out I haven't read.
My point was that in large part judgments and praisings (as well as diminishing one's value) are crap. Statistically it's always safer to presume this than otherwise.
That's at least my experience from the magazines. Even Giorgio Piola, whose drawings are really worth seeing, often makes wrong technical calls.
Therefore I believe only Willis's peers are justified to judge him but that doesn't necessarily mean they are right in judgments.

Hrvoje

[flyer72]

Why the hype? Simple - the new BAR is a good chassis which is vastly improved to the other BAR's during the years. The chassis is good, but the Honda engine is still detuned due to reliability problems, but we can't really blame Willis for that can we?

If the team can make use of it is another story...

[Paco]

This year's car is top notch on the aero and chassis of it. The Honda is still far from being a Ferrari/BMW or Mercedes and hence the BAR hasn't been higher up the grid.

As well, the team themselves have underperformed! From what I read online, Jacques struggled with his radio again this weekend!

In Australia, no decent amount of practice due to reliablity. Wrong tire choice ruined their race + the pitstop mess.

This weekend, heavier engine (more reliable one) caused the car to react badly. JVs car ruined by electronics during the initial firing of the engine on Sunday. Then again on the grid.

Basically, if BAR had a better engine and work better as a team - you'd see them much higher up the grid. Miracles don't come over night. Just ask McLaren.

Willis has taken them from a team that was looking to fall to the back of the grid quicker than you can blink an eye to a definitely "best of the rest contender' in the less than 18 months. Not bad.

It'll take 2-4 years to see if he can actually play with the big boys and take a 2nd or 3rd place constructor's championship.

Newey being one of the best has taken several years to bring McLaren back to the front, we'll have to see what this years McLaren produces when it comes out.

Don't be too surprised to see BAR or Renault take 3rd spot in the championship. That can only be done with a top notch design team!

Paco

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by Paco

Don't be too surprised to see BAR or Renault take 3rd spot in the championship. That can only be done with a top notch design team!

Paco

I would be very surprised to see BAR take 3rd.

[The Fazz]

Too early to pronounce Willis as the BAR saviour. So far the BARs have had only two good quallies. Looking at the recent race speed of the BAR vs main competitors Renault, Toyota and perhaps even Sauber... I'd say that they aren't much better. The celebration is premature, I think.

[Sir Frank]

There is hype about Willis because he works for BAR that is also the employer of Jacques Villeneuve. There is no hype about Gascoyne coz he works for Renault whos drivers are Alonso and Trulli, not much of a fan base on this board before the latest GPs.

[kodandaram]

Under GW's aegis the team has improved a lot . There is a noticable improvement in the performance of the car. As for the relative pace against toyota and sauber BAR were better. Toyota ran Panis very light and yet he qualified behind button and stopped at least 5laps earleir for fuel . Sauber didn't look that quick in the race at all . Even with all their probs with the pitstops they wouldn't have scored points IMO.

I think BAr need to get more work on their tyres . I mean to say they need to make tose tyres work for them . A lighter and morepowerful engine will help as well.

edited

[Ghostrider]

Kodandaram, you old joker, you know Jordan will crush BAR this year.

Gary A is better than Willis.

[Rene]

Originally posted by Ghostrider
Kodandaram, you old joker, you know Jordan will crush BAR this year.

Gary A is better than Willis.

Maybe if Fisi remebers which grid slot is his....

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Rene
Maybe if Fisi remebers which grid slot is his....

Fisi will astonish you guys. Just watch him at Brazil. Podium is on the cards. Believe my words.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by Nustang70
People have been raving about him, Atlas hints that he may join Newey and Byrne as the top designers in F1. I dont think he has done anything that impressive. The past two Williams werent winning races because of a superior chassis...and this year's BAR, although a vast improvement to the crap they produced in the past, doesnt seem that great either. So why is he being heralded as the next great one? Mike Gascoyne deserves much, much more recognition.

When your starting point is last years BAR,its not hard to look like god.
Willis is definalty nothing special.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


Fisi will astonish you guys. Just watch him at Brazil. Podium is on the cards.

It won't matter if Fisi will finish in the top 3 as he'll probably be walking down some corridor looking for the podium when the ceremony starts.

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by karlth
It won't matter if Fisi will finish in the top 3 as he'll probably be walking down some corridor looking for the podium when ceremony starts.

Fisi has had 10 podiums, and no podiums missed so far. Don't jinx it.

[just me again]

I think most is looking at 2 points when valueing willis

1. Is the new Williams better or worse than the last wiilis designed ( it is maybe worse, defintly not better yet ).
2. Is the new BAR better or worse than the old one ( it is better )
so considering these 2 points, most thinks that willis is a better designer than Head made him when he quit Williams
Bjørn

[masterhit]

Well, the team has gone from struggling to beat the likes of Minardi and Jaguar to being a real contender for podiums. That puts him right in the pantheon. It does not make him necessarily the best, but it puts him high in the market whether you "like" him or not.

[FlatFoot]

Willis just looks like a genius (IMO he's not) compared to the previous aero morons at BAR

Adrian Reynard
Malcom Oastler

[Jackman]

Originally posted by Vrba
Therefore I believe only Willis's peers are justified to judge him but that doesn't necessarily mean they are right in judgments.

So the only people who are worthy of reviewing a car's design is another designer, and maybe not even them? No wonder you don't subscribe - according to you no one could ever write an article about the cars themselves.

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by karlth


It won't matter if Fisi will finish in the top 3 as he'll probably be walking down some corridor looking for the podium when the ceremony starts.

[kodandaram]

Ghost your driver burnt the clutch after he saw a BAR missing its slot ...........and you say he is going to be on the podium ? Well to be honest I expected Jordan Ford to be strong at the beginning of the year. So far nothing .

I think this is another car like the EJ12 . I hope fisi gets a drive at some team like sauber where he can be assured of a chassis better than this shitbox.
Oh ! I still have my voodoo Jordan . Don't let ur cars come near the BAR's or I will blow the engine !

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by kodandaram
Ghost your driver burnt the clutch after he saw a BAR missing its slot ...........and you say he is going to be on the podium ? Well to be honest I expected Jordan Ford to be strong at the beginning of the year. So far nothing .
I think this is another car like the EJ12 . I hope fisi gets a drive at some team like sauber where he can be assured of a chassis better than this shitbox.
Oh ! I still have my voodoo Jordan . Don't let ur cars come near the BAR's or I will blow the engine !

Jordan Ford is very strong. As long as they get away from grid and pit stops properly.

I will work on an anti-vodoo doll for next weekend because I expect Fisi to pass both JV and Button.

[Vrba]

Originally posted by Jackman
So the only people who are worthy of reviewing a car's design is another designer, and maybe not even them? No wonder you don't subscribe - according to you no one could ever write an article about the cars themselves.

It's easy to judge a car's performance after the season is over. But I doubt anyone but engineers know what they write or say when they judge a car that had only been presented. After every launch we have magazines full of articles about how this or that car is excellent or has a great potential. How do they know that?

Hrvoje

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by Rene


Maybe if Fisi remebers which grid slot is his....

Fisico Fantastic!!
A true-blooded Roman just like me.
He don't give a **** where he parks his car, just as long as it isn't where he is supposed to.