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F2003GA in Brazil?


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#1 bukusuma

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 12:46

Should Ferrari bring the F2003GA to Brazil?

It would be a chance to test the new car under race conditions. Ferrari could bring one new car and let the drivers pick which one they would drive for the race.

Or, what if MS sticks to the F2002, because he most probably be faster than RB using the old car, and let RB test the new car while also trying to take points off MS' rivals.

At least if the new car retires, Ferrari has obtained valuable data, and MS should still get points for the WDC (he may very well wins it) considering its reliability.

Bram

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#2 HSJ

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 13:07

Originally posted by bukusuma
Or, what if MS sticks to the F2002, because he most probably be faster than RB using the old car, and let RB test the new car while also trying to take points off MS' rivals.

At least if the new car retires, Ferrari has obtained valuable data, and MS should still get points for the WDC (he may very well wins it) considering its reliability.


Hey wait a second here. Are you suggesting RB should let go of his own WDC ambitions and "test the new car while also trying to take points off MS' rivals"?? And "MS should still get points for the WDC." But what about poor RB then? No points for him? :(

It's not fair. Since RB has slaved for MS in the past, let's reverse it for this season. Let MS test the F2003 and RB pick points towards WDC.

#3 B.Verkiler

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 13:12

It's not fair. Since RB has slaved for MS in the past, let's reverse it for this season. Let MS test the F2003 and RB pick points towards WDC.


yeah! And then you will be able to say what you must have said last year, when MS tested the F2002 while RB was favoured to pick points towards WDC with the F1 2001. :up:

#4 logic

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 13:53

No, MS was favoured last year :smoking:

#5 umapathypon

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:00

Originally posted by HSJ


Hey wait a second here. Are you suggesting RB should let go of his own WDC ambitions and "test the new car while also trying to take points off MS' rivals"?? And "MS should still get points for the WDC." But what about poor RB then? No points for him? :(

It's not fair. Since RB has slaved for MS in the past, let's reverse it for this season. Let MS test the F2003 and RB pick points towards WDC.

Well...well...We know what you'll be saying if that happens. :lol:

#6 Williams

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:06

Interesting. Last year it was "they're not letting Rubens drive the new car." This year *it would be, "They are making Rubens drive the new car". *Edit

#7 karlth

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:19

Originally posted by Williams
Interesting. Last year it was "they're not letting Rubens drive the new car." This year would it would be, "They are making Rubens drive the new car".


Agree. If Ferrari want to race the new car, meaning it is sufficiently reliable and fast, both drivers would want it. That "it is bad to race new cars" argument doesn't hold water.

#8 F1 Rumors

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:49

Originally posted by bukusuma
Should Ferrari bring the F2003GA to Brazil? It would be a chance to test the new car under race conditions...

If it won't do a race distance in testing, what makes you think it can handle the Brazilian GP? If they take it, the odds on scoring points are very low -- even coming 5th and 6th in the old car is better than scoring nothing...

#9 Mrv

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:49

Ferrari are not bringing the the F2003 to Brazil.

#10 karlth

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:51

Originally posted by Mrv
Ferrari are not bringing the the F2003 to Brazil.


And why should they, the F2002 is fast enough.

#11 SeanValen

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 14:55

Originally posted by karlth


And why should they, the F2002 is fast enough.



In theory, but who knows what can be unleashed on a different GP weekend by McLaren, Williams and maybe even Renault, different track, different tyres, a good car has it's advantages on some tracks more then others, but I agree with fellow forumers, and you, that f2002 could do the job, but not a sneaky feeling, Williams might be better there, a car's performance is never guranteed in the ongoing world of f1, where nobody sleeps that much.

I expect Brazil to be the closest, aero does not matter here as much, last year qualifying and performance was like tenths difference, Mike just kept Ralf off, although we could also say it was a getting to grips race with a new car, it's now modified, yet we got a modified McLaren that's doing well, and a Williams that can improve, so lets see. :up:
:smoking:

#12 speedmaster

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 17:07

Atlas is saying that Rubens tested the F2003 today for about 20 laps and then had a problem. Although I do like Atlas I think they need to be more capable when posting news. RUBENS DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM !!!! FERRARI WAS TESTING THE BLOW RUBENS BUTTON !!!! and as you all can see it is working in the 2003 also.

:lol:

#13 karlth

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 17:16

Originally posted by speedmaster
Atlas is saying that Rubens tested the F2003 today for about 20 laps and then had a problem. Although I do like Atlas I think they need to be more capable when posting news. RUBENS DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM !!!! FERRARI WAS TESTING THE BLOW RUBENS BUTTON !!!!


Who is called when the Blow Rubens button is pushed?

*drum roll*

#14 Teez

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 17:20

Originally posted by karlth

Who is called when the Blow Rubens button is pushed? *drum roll*

Frans, Molive and Magic are alerted via an SMS message courtesy of Vodafone.  ;)

#15 speedmaster

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 17:33

Originally posted by Teez

Frans, Molive and Magic are alerted via an SMS message courtesy of Vodafone.  ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

#16 karlth

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 17:34

Originally posted by Teez

Frans, Molive and Magic are alerted via an SMS message courtesy of Vodafone.  ;)


Can Rubens stay in the car during it?

#17 Scoots

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Posted 27 March 2003 - 19:57

Originally posted by karlth


Can Rubens stay in the car during it?


If he can I'd think he'd have a problem fitting into his fire suit. On the other hand he could get a new nickname ... tripod.

#18 senninha

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 03:15

Originally posted by speedmaster
Atlas is saying that Rubens tested the F2003 today for about 20 laps and then had a problem. Although I do like Atlas I think they need to be more capable when posting news. RUBENS DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM !!!! FERRARI WAS TESTING THE BLOW RUBENS BUTTON !!!! and as you all can see it is working in the 2003 also.

:lol:


Shakedown was Ok!! :smoking:

#19 gerry nassar

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 04:14

Originally posted by SeanValen



In theory, but who knows what can be unleashed on a different GP weekend by McLaren, Williams and maybe even Renault, different track, different tyres, a good car has it's advantages on some tracks more then others, but I agree with fellow forumers, and you, that f2002 could do the job, but not a sneaky feeling, Williams might be better there, a car's performance is never guranteed in the ongoing world of f1, where nobody sleeps that much.

I expect Brazil to be the closest, aero does not matter here as much, last year qualifying and performance was like tenths difference, Mike just kept Ralf off, although we could also say it was a getting to grips race with a new car, it's now modified, yet we got a modified McLaren that's doing well, and a Williams that can improve, so lets see. :up:
:smoking:


:up:

Valen, this could be the closets race we will see for the rest of the year - grab a large peperoni pizza and enjoy :smoking:

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#20 Fabio

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 04:30

Originally posted by SeanValen



In theory, but who knows what can be unleashed on a different GP weekend by McLaren, Williams and maybe even Renault, different track, different tyres, a good car has it's advantages on some tracks more then others, but I agree with fellow forumers, and you, that f2002 could do the job, but not a sneaky feeling, Williams might be better there, a car's performance is never guranteed in the ongoing world of f1, where nobody sleeps that much.

I expect Brazil to be the closest, aero does not matter here as much, last year qualifying and performance was like tenths difference, Mike just kept Ralf off, although we could also say it was a getting to grips race with a new car, it's now modified, yet we got a modified McLaren that's doing well, and a Williams that can improve, so lets see. :up:
:smoking:


Brazil will rock. It's the only race on my time zone, so I don't have wake up early to watch the race!

I think will finally see the first battle between JPM and Schumacher. Interlagos characteristics(high temperatures and two long straights) should give Willians a fighting chance against Mclaren and Ferrari.
I just hope it stays dry so we can have a normal race. Also no safety cars and no first lap clashes.

#21 SpeakerGuru

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 19:22

Originally posted by SeanValen



In theory, but who knows what can be unleashed on a different GP weekend by McLaren, Williams and maybe even Renault, different track, different tyres, a good car has it's advantages on some tracks more then others, but I agree with fellow forumers, and you, that f2002 could do the job, but not a sneaky feeling, Williams might be better there, a car's performance is never guranteed in the ongoing world of f1, where nobody sleeps that much.

I expect Brazil to be the closest, aero does not matter here as much, last year qualifying and performance was like tenths difference, Mike just kept Ralf off, although we could also say it was a getting to grips race with a new car, it's now modified, yet we got a modified McLaren that's doing well, and a Williams that can improve, so lets see. :up:
:smoking:



And isn't it refreshing after the last couple of years that we have the potential for the race winner to come from one of 4 differnt teams? :up: to Renault, hopefully they can maintain the pace they have shown up until now. Having said that, I do expect Ferrari will have something to prove @ Interlagos and should probably win barring more brain-fade. If not for bad tire choice @ Melbourne & bad lane choice @ Sepang, MS may very easily already for 2 for 2. No reason then to panic and unleash F2003 - they clarly still have the pace with the F2002. Here's hoping for a great 4-way battle!

#22 KinetiK

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 19:29

Originally posted by karlth


Who is called when the Blow Rubens button is pushed?

*drum roll*


Jenna Jamison

*crash*

#23 HSJ

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 19:54

Guys, I wasn't being entirely serious there. Nice of you to take the bait though. :) :)

I was just taking a **** at the attitude with which the opening post was written, as RB was made to look like nothing but a slave. Which he probably is of course, but shouldn't be. :cat:

#24 HSJ

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 19:59

Originally posted by SeanValen



In theory, but who knows what can be unleashed on a different GP weekend by McLaren, Williams and maybe even Renault, different track, different tyres, a good car has it's advantages on some tracks more then others, but I agree with fellow forumers, and you, that f2002 could do the job, but not a sneaky feeling, Williams might be better there, a car's performance is never guranteed in the ongoing world of f1, where nobody sleeps that much.

I expect Brazil to be the closest, aero does not matter here as much, last year qualifying and performance was like tenths difference, Mike just kept Ralf off, although we could also say it was a getting to grips race with a new car, it's now modified, yet we got a modified McLaren that's doing well, and a Williams that can improve, so lets see. :up:
:smoking:


...or you could say Mikey wasn't getting the most out of F2002 last year in Brazil, in that car he should have won much, much more comfortably. In hindsight it is pretty funny that Autosport praised his drive there. I guess they thought F2002 wasn't that good or something. :lol:

But it really is quite likely actually that MS didn't get the maximum out of F2002 at Interlagos as that track hasn't been one of his best really. Of course that should be true this year as well...

#25 logic

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 20:04

Doesn't look too quick F2003-GA in Barcelona :

#26 maclaren

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 20:23

Ferrari had better to stick with the bullet proof F2002. Easily fastest car in grid and no single technical failure in GP weekends so far. Not a tough choice IMO. With F2003 Ferrari are facing what Mclaren did in 1999, when you are on the top and have nothing to improve unless it's in cost of reliability.

#27 Teez

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 20:37

I'm also somewhat worried about the reliability and speed of the F2003-GA... Then again, I remember feeling the same way before the F2002 was released. *fingers crossed*

#28 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 20:58

Originally posted by maclaren
With F2003 Ferrari are facing what Mclaren did in 1999, when you are on the top and have nothing to improve unless it's in cost of reliability.


Yeah, but Ferrari's quality control department is easily the best in F1, and certainly heads & shoulders above anything McLaren had 1999, so once they field the F2003, it will not only be fast but Ferrari certified reliable. :D

Like Teez said above, there were doubts about F2002 last year, and look at how we laughed at those doubts very quickly after it was introduced. :up:

#29 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 21:00

Originally posted by logic
Doesn't look too quick F2003-GA in Barcelona :


Doesn't look Ferrari wanted to be quick F2003-GA in Barcelona :

#30 Scoots

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 21:08

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


Yeah, but Ferrari's quality control department is easily the best in F1, and certainly heads & shoulders above anything McLaren had 1999, so once they field the F2003, it will not only be fast but Ferrari certified reliable. :D

Like Teez said above, there were doubts about F2002 last year, and look at how we laughed at those doubts very quickly after it was introduced. :up:


Careful, you don't want to have to eat those words.

I always find statements like this "Ferrari's quality control department is easily the best in F1" interesting ... I'd bet nobody in F1 knows this, let alone any of us on the BB. All anyone can do is speculate, but it's people like us that take speculation and state it as fact. :)

#31 speedmaster

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 21:22

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


Doesn't look Ferrari wanted to be quick F2003-GA in Barcelona :


UAU !!!!! I do agree with Buono... first time it happens but even though welcome... I think they were disguising it...

:eek:

#32 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 21:40

Originally posted by Scoots


Careful, you don't want to have to eat those words.

I always find statements like this "Ferrari's quality control department is easily the best in F1" interesting ... I'd bet nobody in F1 knows this, let alone any of us on the BB. All anyone can do is speculate, but it's people like us that take speculation and state it as fact. :)


How's 17 MS podiums in 2002, and a podium since Malay '99 as pretty 'strong' evidence. :D
I know what u are trying to say Scoots, but, Ferrari's quality control practices and budget and methodology has been well documented and extensively researched by the specialized press in Italy for a while now. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that they are in a serious class of their own in regards to other teams. AtlasF1 did a great article w/ Ross B which touched upon this subject last year. Also, DNF rates speak for themselves. ;) That is a fact.

#33 Scoots

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Posted 28 March 2003 - 22:26

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
How's 17 MS podiums in 2002, and a podium since Malay '99 as pretty 'strong' evidence. :D
I know what u are trying to say Scoots, but, Ferrari's quality control practices and budget and methodology has been well documented and extensively researched by the specialized press in Italy for a while now. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that they are in a serious class of their own in regards to other teams. AtlasF1 did a great article w/ Ross B which touched upon this subject last year. Also, DNF rates speak for themselves. ;) That is a fact.


specialized press in Italy


No bias there! :)

I'm not saying that Ferrari are not the best, merely that it's damn near impossible to state anything about F1 with absolute certainty.

As for 17 podiums last year ... that just means that 17 times last year MS finished the race on the podiums ... it does NOT mean that Ferrari have the best quality control practices. It is possible to have better practices and worse results.

Again, Ferrari probably are the best, and recent history certainly makes it look that way, but if you look at the first 2 races of this year there are very few people who say the Ferrari is not the fastest and yet it didn't win the first 2 races. Statistics support statistics, but any statistical model of reality is likely to be flawed, if not, based on last years stats MS should have been on the podium for 2 out of 2 this year.

I think we've taken this pet peeve of mine as far as it should go :)

#34 madmac

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 01:48

no need to bring the 2003 to Brazil is there really, Ferrari are not on the back foot enough to need to inject something radical into the mix. The 2002 will score points and they are better off honing the 2003 for Imola before showing their hand to earley. Remember after Brazil there is still 130 points on offer, Jean Todt does.

#35 SeanValen

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 02:04

Originally posted by HSJ


...or you could say Mikey wasn't getting the most out of F2002 last year in Brazil, in that car he should have won much, much more comfortably. In hindsight it is pretty funny that Autosport praised his drive there. I guess they thought F2002 wasn't that good or something. :lol:

But it really is quite likely actually that MS didn't get the maximum out of F2002 at Interlagos as that track hasn't been one of his best really. Of course that should be true this year as well...


Whether it's his one of his best tracks or not, we cannot confirm, but he certainly has won there, 94, 2000, 2002, 3 times I believe, MS also says Canada is not his type of track either, yet he's won there like 5 times I think, I think what's important here, is what drivers need to make a difference, MS at Spa, MS at Brazil, good drivers show their hand the greatest on a track like Spa, ashame it's not on anymore, I'm sure you would of liked Kimi to beat DC there as well. Traction control, more downforce, advanced cars, it makes gaps smaller, so us fans must look more carefully at reasons of performance, tenths on some tracks are like half a second somewhere else in driver input. :smoking:
:up:

#36 maclaren

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 08:07

Why is it that Michael didn't test F2003 in wet?

#37 Tuxy

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 15:32

Originally posted by logic
Doesn't look too quick F2003-GA in Barcelona :


Luca has half a second faster the Rubens in the F2003-GA. Rubens aswell was a half second fastr than Michael in the F2003-GA. It's not the leap of last year but it's a leap. Especaily considering the 2 drivers are slower.

#38 Teez

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 18:14

Well, this is a good sign: :up:

Schumacher, at the wheel of the new Ferrari car, drove a total of 90 laps, with a best time of 56.338 - an improvement of almost half a second on the previous record, also set by Schumacher in mid-February this year, which was 56.786. Since the beginning of the year, Schumacher improved the Maranello-based track record by almost 1.2 seconds.

Source: AtlasF1 News



#39 CLX

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 18:27

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
Like Teez said above, there were doubts about F2002 last year, and look at how we laughed at those doubts very quickly after it was introduced. :up:


But the tyre war was pending to Ferrari's side last year, since Michelin had to compromise with serving the same tyres for McLaren and Williams. It isn't like that now, and the competition is in a position it never found itself last year.

But the tifosi don't need to despair, neither can the non Ferrari fans claim the war is won.

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#40 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 18:31

Originally posted by CLX


But the tyre war was pending to Ferrari's side last year, since Michelin had to compromise with serving the same tyres for McLaren and Williams. It isn't like that now, and the competition is in a position it never found itself last year.

But the tifosi don't need to despair, neither can the non Ferrari fans claim the war is won.


I was talking about reliability. :rolleyes:

#41 CLX

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 18:35

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


I was talking about reliability. :rolleyes:


Yes, and?

Isn't it easier to find reliability/pace when you have tyres that are made for your car than when you have to run on tyres that are a compromise between the needs two very different machines?

That's not so hard to notice, is it?

#42 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 18:49

Originally posted by CLX


Yes, and?

Isn't it easier to find reliability/pace when you have tyres that are made for your car than when you have to run on tyres that are a compromise between the needs two very different machines?

That's not so hard to notice, is it?


OK, again, I was talking about reliabilty and how last year some fans were worried that the F2002 had niggling problems before its debut, yet we look back at those doubts a year later and take comfort in the fact that they didn't surface during races.

What does reliability have to do w/ tyres, and I am not discussing the potential pace of the F2003GA.

#43 Scoots

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Posted 30 March 2003 - 03:01

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


OK, again, I was talking about reliabilty and how last year some fans were worried that the F2002 had niggling problems before its debut, yet we look back at those doubts a year later and take comfort in the fact that they didn't surface during races.

What does reliability have to do w/ tyres, and I am not discussing the potential pace of the F2003GA.


I think ... maybe ... what he's trying to say is that superior tires make the cars work less for more speed so they are more reliable?

Either way, I understand what you are saying. :)

#44 Mrv

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Posted 30 March 2003 - 09:30

Originally posted by Teez
I'm also somewhat worried about the reliability and speed of the F2003-GA... Then again, I remember feeling the same way before the F2002 was released. *fingers crossed*


Ferrari were not interested in speed. They were testing various components and tyres. They are not going to give away anything to their opponents. The F2003 is superior to the F2002 so don't worry.